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4/1/2020 4:14:10 PM
4/1/2020 6:58:51 AM
Posted: 1/8/2005 4:30:39 PM EDT
Updated: January 8th, 2005 02:50:33 PM

Green Bay, Wisconsin Police Fingerprinting Traffic And Ordinance Violators

............  

Associated Press

GREEN BAY, Wis. (AP) -- A new police policy to fingerprint traffic and ordinance violators is expected to prevent about a half-dozen people a year from being wrongly jailed, an official said Friday.

"There's an increasing use of people using false identification, fraudulent identification and stealing other people's identity and using it later on, and these people are becoming victims,'' said Capt. Greg Urban, public information officer for the Green Bay Police Department.

Green Bay officers are carrying portable ink pads to take one print from the index finger of those cited for traffic or ordinance violations and put the print on a copy of the ticket.

The new policy, which took effect Dec. 30, is described as voluntary.

Urban said the department was already bringing in people for fingerprinting if they couldn't show valid photo identification or driver's licenses or if officers had reason to doubt their identity.

The additional fingerprinting has been questioned by Christopher Ahmuty, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin.

"It's unfortunate ID theft goes on, but if they stop thousands of people each year that are innocent except for tailgating or jaywalking, to treat them as if they are committing identity theft without any particularized suspicion, it doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of resources or fairness,'' he said.

Urban said the department checked with the state attorney general's office, the Brown County District Attorney and the city attorney before implementing the policy.

"There's nothing in the state statutes or local laws saying we can't do this,'' he said. ``Community reaction is probably going to dictate how this thing all falls out.''

Urban said the fingerprints will not be put into any data base of criminal suspects, will not be used in unrelated investigations and will remain on file with the citation. He said giving up fingerprints is voluntary according to state law and no violators will be coerced into doing so.

"This doesn't have anything to do with the Patriot Act,'' he said. ``There's no Big Brother thing; there's no secret database.''

Green Bay police are trying to prevent situations like one Urban came across as a shift commander: a man cited for disorderly conduct in a bar fight gave his friend's name and date of birth to police. When the citation wasn't paid or the man failed to show up for court, his friend was arrested.

"It's a lot of work and it's a lot of headaches for the person that becomes the victim here,'' he said. "Does five or six times a year justify this policy? I guess you ask yourself: 'What if it was me?'''

The Milwaukee Police Department encourages its officers to get fingerprints from ordinance violators and is looking into purchasing portable fingerprint scanning equipment connected to the state's fingerprint database, spokeswoman Anne E. Schwartz said.

"We're trying to figure out where the money could come from for this,'' she said.

Jeff Hardel, deputy chief of the Wausau Police Department, said his agency doesn't not have that type of policy but added, ``I absolutely love the idea.''

"Anything that law enforcement, the managers in law enforcement can do to make the job for our officers easier we should do,'' he said.

Eau Claire Police Department Lt. Karl Fisher said similar cases have occurred in his city, where people receive notices for tickets and inform police they've never even been to the area. His department doesn't have a fingerprint policy like Green Bay's, but he said he understands the reasons behind it with the rise of convincing-looking fake IDs.

"A driver's license used to be pretty good but it doesn't mean that much anymore,'' he said

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:31:58 PM EDT
Sounds like Wisconsin to me. I hope we don't become the next California soon.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:36:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 4:46:15 PM EDT by Boomholzer]

Jeff Hardel, deputy chief of the Wausau Police Department, said his agency doesn't not have that type of policy but added, ``I absolutely love the idea.''


all those Hmongs look the same
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:42:55 PM EDT
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
<Benjamin Franklin>
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:43:05 PM EDT
In Florida, if you don't have your driver's license  with you law enforcement can finger print the offender.  The citation has place for the finger print.  That helps law enforcement identify the actual offender and not jail the wrong person.  

322.15  License to be carried and exhibited on demand; fingerprint to be imprinted upon a citation.--  

(1)  Every licensee shall have his or her driver's license, which must be fully legible with no portion of such license faded, altered, mutilated, or defaced, in his or her immediate possession at all times when operating a motor vehicle and shall display the same upon the demand of a law enforcement officer or an authorized representative of the department.

(2)  Upon the failure of any person to display a driver's license as required by subsection (1), the law enforcement officer or authorized representative of the department stopping the person shall require the person to imprint his or her fingerprint upon any citation issued by the officer or authorized representative.

(3)  In relation to violations of subsection (1) or s. 322.03(5), persons who cannot supply proof of a valid driver's license for the reason that the license was suspended for failure to comply with that citation shall be issued a suspension clearance by the clerk of the court for that citation upon payment of the applicable penalty and fee for that citation. If proof of a valid driver's license is not provided to the clerk of the court within 30 days, the person's driver's license shall again be suspended for failure to comply.

(4)  A violation of subsection (1) is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.

Since I started printing people without their driver's license with them, I haven't had any problems.  Moral of the story.  Carry your driver's license and don't lie about your identification.  

Colt_SBR  

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:48:21 PM EDT
This whole article makes my head hurt.  Everything that was said in the first half is immediately shown to be a lie in the second half.

For example, the goal of the program is to prevent identify theft.  That's a good goal. But then hen they say "the program is voluntary".  Next they describe a situation where a guy in a bar fight gave his friends name to the police.  They ask if the policy is justified and said "what if it happend to me."  Well, geniuses if the program is voluntary then someone making up false information isn't going to willingly give you his fingerprint.  So the policy is completely useless unless you force everyone to do it...in which case the claim that it's voluntary is a flat out lie.

Next you have the Green Bay cops saying there is not "big brother" ploy or a secret database.  Then you go to the Milwaukee police that is looking to get electronic scanners so they can tie it into their database.  What a bunch of liars.  Granted it's two different departments but you can't push the program for public acceptance saying "this will never happen" when another department is already doing just that.

Why don't they just get it over with and plant the microchips in everyone.  That will save a lot of time and money.  We already have the cameras setup to scan everyone's face and look for criminals or "persons of interest" and now Ohio is scanning the license plates of every vehicle supposedly "only looking for stolen vehicles".  We all know that they use these "non-threatening" "public safety" reasons to get the policy in place and then push the law and beyond it's limits to see what they can get away with.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:58:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
This whole article makes my head hurt.  Everything that was said in the first half is immediately shown to be a lie in the second half.

For example, the goal of the program is to prevent identify theft.  That's a good goal. But then hen they say "the program is voluntary".  Next they describe a situation where a guy in a bar fight gave his friends name to the police.  They ask if the policy is justified and said "what if it happend to me."  Well, geniuses if the program is voluntary then someone making up false information isn't going to willingly give you his fingerprint.  So the policy is completely useless unless you force everyone to do it...in which case the claim that it's voluntary is a flat out lie.

Next you have the Green Bay cops saying there is not "big brother" ploy or a secret database.  Then you go to the Milwaukee police that is looking to get electronic scanners so they can tie it into their database.  What a bunch of liars.  Granted it's two different departments but you can't push the program for public acceptance saying "this will never happen" when another department is already doing just that.

Why don't they just get it over with and plant the microchips in everyone.  That will save a lot of time and money.  We already have the cameras setup to scan everyone's face and look for criminals or "persons of interest" and now Ohio is scanning the license plates of every vehicle supposedly "only looking for stolen vehicles".  We all know that they use these "non-threatening" "public safety" reasons to get the policy in place and then push the law and beyond it's limits to see what they can get away with.



There is a line in 'Amadeus' where a Arch-Bishop bitches out Mozart, his employee.  It seems to apply here.

"The more license I allow you, the more you take."
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:37:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 5:40:50 PM EDT by Boomholzer]
1) Most violations will be citizens with no fingerprint on file until your regime accomplishes it's real goal.

2) "Green Bay police are trying to prevent situations like one Urban came across as a shift commander: a man cited for disorderly conduct in a bar fight gave his friend's name and date of birth to police. When the citation wasn't paid or the man failed to show up for court, his friend was arrested."
That is hardly a precedence to mandate such a huge loss in civil rights.  Really, that is laughable.

3) "There's no Big Brother thing; there's no secret database.''
This is totally and purely a front to build a database.  It's not secret, but there IS a database and the purpose of this policy is to fill it.

4) "Community reaction is probably going to dictate how this thing all falls out.''  Most citizens would rather be involved in a honest mix up than be subjected to this communist idea.  The increase in assaults and misdemeanors will offset any benefit from this facade initiative.  Human reaction associates fingerprinting with guilt.  Mistakes will still be made.

5) "Jeff Hardel, deputy chief of the Wausau Police Department, said his agency doesn't not have that type of policy but added, ``I absolutely love the idea.''
Jeff Hardel has his own unique problems.  His environment is not even close to the rest of Wisconsin.  Even so, attempting the fingerprint the populous is not a solution.
"Anything that law enforcement, the managers in law enforcement can do to make the job for our officers easier we should do,''
Jeff Hardel has a history of odd comments.  His belief is so very, very, wrong.  In my opinion anyone with that belief does not deserve to wear the badge.  Furthermore, he has no authority or involvement with the Green Bay community.

6) "There's nothing in the state statutes or local laws saying we can't do this," he said. "Community reaction is probably going to dictate how this thing all falls out."
The department has clearly lost the fundamental purpose of it's existence.

7) A better solution to prevent identity fraud would be to implement training to allow Officer's to ask the right questions and evaluate the response.   Instead, your department would rather incriminate the entire populous in a expensive and unwarranted policy.


EMAIL:
Chief Moose: craigvs@ci.green-bay.wi.us
Greg Urban: gregur@ci.green-bay.wi.us

www.gbpolice.org/chief/phones.html
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:07:35 AM EDT
So those who oppose this policy think the police should just cite to whatever name the suspect wants to use when they are not carrying ID?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:10:05 AM EDT
Working in a jail for 5 years, we did detain quite a few people who had warrants issued under their names that actually weren't for them.  Too many lyin cheatin sneaky bastages out there!!  We'd have to issue them laminated cards saying they'd been brought down, identified, processed and determined to not be the wanted subject for the next time that they encountered law enforcement.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:10:55 AM EDT

"We're trying to figure out where the money could come from for this,'' she said.


Oh I know EXACTLY where they'll find the money for this... it's called TAXPAYERS.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:14:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By windom:
Sounds like Wisconsin to me. I hope we don't become the next California soon.



As long as we get rid of that asshole Doyle we'll be fine.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:15:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Airwolf:

"We're trying to figure out where the money could come from for this,'' she said.


Oh I know EXACTLY where they'll find the money for this... it's called TAXPAYERS.



Sure, butya know what they will say it's a way to fight terrorism and such shit and use federal money for the war on terror.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:17:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HeldHostage:
Working in a jail for 5 years, we did detain quite a few people who had warrants issued under their names that actually weren't for them.  Too many lyin cheatin sneaky bastages out there!!  We'd have to issue them laminated cards saying they'd been brought down, identified, processed and determined to not be the wanted subject for the next time that they encountered law enforcement.




We had one a few nights ago who thought he had warrants out for him, so he gave us his twin brothers name as his. He actually didn't, but his brother did, so he would up taking a ride anyway.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:41:09 AM EDT

Jeff Hardel, deputy chief of the Wausau Police Department, said his agency doesn't not have that type of policy but added, ``I absolutely love the idea.''


No surprise there. My experience with the Wausau cops is they are a bunch of fascist assholes.

I have one answer for this bullshit: Fuck off.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 5:43:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By windom:
Sounds like Wisconsin to me. I hope we don't become the next California soon.



As long as we get rid of that asshole Doyle we'll be fine.



Yup. I don't think he's re-electable. The entire gaming compact issue with the tribes is going to come back to bite him on the ass bigtime. I've lived in this state for 46 years and he is by far the biggest asshole ever elected governor here. He represents Milwaukee and Madison and couldn't give a shit less about the entire rest of the state or those who live there.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 6:13:03 AM EDT
But but it's for the safety right?right?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 7:26:17 AM EDT
If you don't run an instant check of the finger print against a database to see who he/she actually is and the person is using fake ID, then taking the finger print is almost useless.


"There's nothing in the state statutes or local laws saying we can't do this,'' he said.


It is impossible to put everything in the code of what you can'd do.  To allow a police department or any government agency to start doing anything just because there is no law against it is dangerous.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 7:35:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
So those who oppose this policy think the police should just cite to whatever name the suspect wants to use when they are not carrying ID?




they're doing it to people who are carrying id




I can't wait until the big quake comes and wisconsin falls into lake michigan
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 7:46:08 AM EDT
Whatever - the govt already has my fingerprints.   They got them once for my green card, and they got them again for my SBR application.

If the local PoPo wanted my prints, they could probably just get them from the feds.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 7:48:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
So those who oppose this policy think the police should just cite to whatever name the suspect wants to use when they are not carrying ID?



Maybe they should actually do their fucking job, ie police work. If someone has committed a crime worthy of being arrested then maybe they are the ones who should be printed and checked out instead of law abiding citizens. Yeah, CITIZENS, not peasants. Instead you want to fingerprint US? Fascist MF'er. Just your way of establishing a data base.
This kind of shit really needs to be met with sheer firepower.




Originally poste by RedBeard:
I can't wait until the big quake comes and wisconsin falls into lake michigan




Damn, that is a riot.

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 7:53:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HeldHostage:
Working in a jail for 5 years, we did detain quite a few people who had warrants issued under their names that actually weren't for them.  Too many lyin cheatin sneaky bastages out there!!  We'd have to issue them laminated cards saying they'd been brought down, identified, processed and determined to not be the wanted subject for the next time that they encountered law enforcement.




sounds to me like you all should have cleared them out of the system, or at least entered them as AKA hits and a "do not arrest based on this info". added to the name. (that is what we do)
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:06:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By windom:
Sounds like Wisconsin to me. I hope we don't become the next California soon.




Or a floriduh, or a texas, or a Illinois, or a New York...and so on and so on.

Sgatr15
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:08:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
So those who oppose this policy think the police should just cite to whatever name the suspect wants to use when they are not carrying ID?



I don't oppose the policy because I don't want big brother watching the bad guys, I oppose it because the way they describing it is about as stupid as you can get.  I've already pointed out that taking finger prints is voluntary and anyone giving fake information isn't going to comply.  So it would have no effect on what you asked in your question.  

I thought it was standard policy to take a suspect in if he has no id.  I've seen it on cops several times, so I know it does happen.  If someone does something wrong and refuses to give you ID they should be taken in, finger printed in the station, and have a complete check run on them.  Anyone out without ID and causing trouble is trying to hide something.

Also what good does getting someone's finger prints do if they have never been finger printed before?  You still aren't going to know who they are.  You can't issue a warrant off a finger print if you don't know who it belongs to.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:44:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Whatever - the govt already has my fingerprints.   They got them once for my green card, and they got them again for my SBR application.

If the local PoPo wanted my prints, they could probably just get them from the feds.



The government  doesn't have my prints - they've never been taken.

They're not going to be taken.

Sure, it doesn't really make any difference since I don't plan on starting a life of crime.  But it's the principle.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 9:23:01 AM EDT
B.O.H.I.C.A.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 9:42:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 9:45:31 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
Wisconsin = Blue state.





yeah, by just 13,646 votes though - I challenge these 10 electoral votes! We must have a recount! We can't let doh!
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 9:45:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Whatever - the govt already has my fingerprints.   They got them once for my green card, and they got them again for my SBR application.

If the local PoPo wanted my prints, they could probably just get them from the feds.



The government  doesn't have my prints - they've never been taken.

They're not going to be taken.

Sure, it doesn't really make any difference since I don't plan on starting a life of crime.  But it's the principle.



Absolutely.  Don't get me wrong, if nobody had my prints, there's no way I'd want my prints taken either.  I wasn't agree with the principle, I was just lamenting the fact that they've already got mine, so for me, it's a moot point.

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:00:51 AM EDT
I have been doing it for years if the illegal alien, I mean unlicensed driver has no identification.  The only other options are to take them to jail to be booked, photographed and fingerprinted there or completely let them go.

How else are we going to be able to identify them three years from now when they are picked up on the warrant for failure to appear?  Am I supposed to be able to positively identify them years later?
If the person has good id I do not fingerprint them.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:01:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By windom:
Sounds like Wisconsin to me. I hope we don't become the next California soon.



Or Texas, where your 5 year old can't even shoot your AR.
What is the world coming to?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:07:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Whatever - the govt already has my fingerprints.   They got them once for my green card, and they got them again for my SBR application.

If the local PoPo wanted my prints, they could probably just get them from the feds.



The government  doesn't have my prints - they've never been taken.

They're not going to be taken.

Sure, it doesn't really make any difference since I don't plan on starting a life of crime.  But it's the principle.



So you don't ever plan on being a football/baseball/soccer coach?
Not ever going to be a Boyscout or Girlscout leader?
Don't plan on getting a Concealed Carry permit?
Not going to be a Hunter Education Instructor?
I am sure you are not going to become a Law Enforcement Officer.
These are all resons I have had my fingerprint taken.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:08:16 AM EDT
Bad popo. Bad!
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:10:00 AM EDT
I'll give them a fingerprint, but let them guess which one.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:14:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
So those who oppose this policy think the police should just cite to whatever name the suspect wants to use when they are not carrying ID?



In TN if you are pulled over and don't have a D.L. you go to jail. John Does can be held for 72hrs. I know several guys who have been through this. Good law. Finger print eveyone who breaks a traffic law, BAD LAW.  This doesn't make me mad but it should make the people of Wisconsin mad.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:49:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2005 10:50:11 AM EDT by livefreeordieNH]

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:


So you don't ever plan on being a football/baseball/soccer coach?




nope



Not ever going to be a Boyscout or Girlscout leader?




nope




Don't plan on getting a Concealed Carry permit?




I live in a free state.  I have a CCW and did not need to submit to fingerprinting to get it.  But you're in CA so I realize you wouldn't understand.




Not going to be a Hunter Education Instructor?




nope.




I am sure you are not going to become a Law Enforcement Officer.
These are all resons I have had my fingerprint taken.



Good for you.  I haven't and sure as hell won't be for exceeding the speed limit.
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:55:20 AM EDT
Do you think they'd have a problem if I gave them my middle finger for a fingerprint on my ticket???
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 10:59:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Wisconsin = Blue state.





yeah, by just 13,646 votes though - I challenge these 10 electoral votes! We must have a recount! We can't let doh!



Hey thats only because of madison and milwaukee.
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