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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 5/9/2002 5:41:42 PM EST
I got this from another board, and hope some here might be interested. From: Dick Baker Senator Dave Zien, the Author and Spirit behind Wisconsin's Concealed Carry Movement, is under attack for standing up for us. Because of the massive grassroots, citizen effort Dave started, the right of law-abiding citizens to defend themselves and their families will be a major issue in the coming elections. Across the State, anti-gun, anti-self defense legislators are being unmasked and held accountable by a motivated citizenry. We have identified the enemies of our rights because Dave Zien refused to be silenced. He refused to sit back and allow Majority Leader Chuck Chvala and Senate Democrats to end the legislative session without acting on the Personal Protection Act. He exposed a secret attempt by the chosen candidate for Governor of the liberal, Democratic elite to ban most guns and ammunition under the guise of "Anti-Terrorism Legislation." He sounded the alarm on a provision buried in a 56-page bill and single-handedly defeated Attorney General Jim Doyle's main priority. Dave Zien has made some powerful enemies. Now, they are targeting Dave for defeat. I am sending a personal contribution to make sure Dave Zien is around after these elections to finish the work he began. I looked into the law and any individual American can send Dave up to $1000. Not everyone can afford that much, but every single dollar counts. Dave Zien has been the force behind every gain citizens have made for self-defense and Constitutional Rights in Wisconsin over the last decade. - Wrote the Wisconsin Personal Protection Act in 1995 and has been the main author and led the fight for passage ever since. - Wrote and passed Wisconsin's Right to Keep and Bear Arms Constitutional Amendment. The first civil right added to Wisconsin's Constitution in 150-years says, "The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose." - Led the fight for Wisconsin's Firearms Preemption Law that outlaws local gun and ammunition bans and any other restriction stronger than that of the state. - Authored Wisconsin's Range Protection Law that ensures firearms opponents can't shut down shooting ranges. I have sent this to everyone I know who wants to be part of the fight for our rights. Please, send it on to friends who share your belief in the rights of law-abiding citizens. We are all part of this. I don't care what state you live in. We are all part of this struggle. A gain in any state helps us all. And the loss of one of freedom's great defenders is a loss to us all. Let's send Dave what we can afford, now. For the price of one gun, you can give Dave the defense he needs. I checked with the state Elections Board to find out how you can give money to Dave's campaign. The rules are below. -- Make checks payable to "Friends of Dave Zien" (corporate checks cannot be accepted under WI State law) -- Mail to Friends of Dave Zien, P.O. Box 114, Cadott, WI 54727" -- Include your NAME, ADDRESS & PHONE NUMBER -- For contributions over $100, state law requires you provide your EMPLOYER, EMPLOYER ADDRESS, WORK PHONE, and OCCUPATION If we are going to pass the Personal Protection Act in January, we need to help Dave win in this election. Let's keep Dave Zien working for us. Thanks, Dick Baker Treasurer, Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 6:22:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/9/2002 6:45:26 PM EST
I just love how people show up out of the blue and post requests for money. Hey, folks, I've gone out and worked for gun rights too! Back when I actually had money, I even donated to the cause. How about sending $1000, $100, or even $10 to: Friends of 71-Hour Achmed P.O. Box 666 Seattle, WA 98124 Anyone who does so can rest assured that it will go to a good cause, like buying me ammo and beer. [I have no idea who would get it if you sent it to that PO Box, so don't. This post is entirely sarcastic in intent. Just in case anyone is actually dumb enough to think about sending me money. . . .]
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 2:05:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed: I just love how people show up out of the blue and post requests for money. Hey, folks, I've gone out and worked for gun rights too! Back when I actually had money, I even donated to the cause. How about sending $1000, $100, or even $10 to: Friends of 71-Hour Achmed P.O. Box 666 Seattle, WA 98124 Anyone who does so can rest assured that it will go to a good cause, like buying me ammo and beer. [I have no idea who would get it if you sent it to that PO Box, so don't. This post is entirely sarcastic in intent. Just in case anyone is actually dumb enough to think about sending me money. . . .]
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Excuse me. What do you know about me or what I do for gun rights? Just because I have not made a lot of posts on this board, doesn't mean I don't do a lot elsewhere. I have read a lot here, and I see your attitude as the minority. Dave Zien is the best friend in politics gun owners have ever had in Wisconsin. If you don't support that, read the post and kindly move on, keep your snide comments to yourself. I made a post I thought some people here might be interested in, I see you are not, that is your right. Don't knock me for trying to be active and concerned.
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 3:08:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2002 3:09:50 AM EST by Muad_Dib]
I received this exact email from Dick Baker myself but chose to not post it for one reason. While I truly appreciate what Senator Zien has done for Wisconsin gun owners, and while I was one of the few people who stood on the Senate floor beside him after Chvala and Risser dragged Wisconsin politics into a the throes of tyrrany, I don't like the fact that he claimed and received $19,000 in mileage reimbursments last year. I know that he's not the only Senator in WI to abuse the travel rules, but I'm not donating to them either. Of interesting and somewhat related note, State Sen. Gary George, D-Milwaukee called for the resignation of [red]Senate Majority Leader Chuck Chvala, D-Madison[/red], and Assembly Majority Leader Scott Jensen, R-Waukesha because they have both prevented legislative clerks from releasing the names of employees who accepted legal advice paid for by taxpayers. [url]http://www.badgerherald.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2002/05/07/3cd718775e11b?in_archive=1[/url]The clerks just in the last couple of days released those names despite the fact that they were under court order from some time ago. As you can see from my sig line, I don't like the Wisconsin Senates blatant abuse of power. I hold them all to the same standards no matter what gender, ethnicity, religion, or political affiliation.
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 3:24:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By greenngld: Excuse me. What do you know about me or what I do for gun rights?
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Not a damn thing. That's the issue at hand.
Just because I have not made a lot of posts on this board, doesn't mean I don't do a lot elsewhere. I have read a lot here, and I see your attitude as the minority. Dave Zien is the best friend in politics gun owners have ever had in Wisconsin. If you don't support that, read the post and kindly move on, keep your snide comments to yourself. I made a post I thought some people here might be interested in, I see you are not, that is your right.
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Gosh. I thought it was also my right to comment.
Don't knock me for trying to be active and concerned.
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And don't knock me for being irritated at people who don't participate other than to show up and ask for donations to their favorite cause. You're not the first, and you probably won't be the last. But I don't just find it annoying, I also have to wonder if the addresses are right, if the causes exist, and so on. Since Muad_Dib knows the state senator and has seen the email, I guess it's probably for real. But there are too many "government minister from Nigeria" scams going on for me to take such posts on blind faith. Before anyone sends money, I'd advise verifying the address. It's not that I don't trust you, it's that I don't know anything about you and so I can't possibly trust you, any more than I can trust "Oil Minister Mbutu Sakawi" who keeps telling me that I can take 15% of the millions of dollars that the former Prime Minister of Nigeria wants to move out of the country, if only I will provide him with my bank information. Have a Friday. [:|]
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 7:13:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By Muad_Dib: I received this exact email from Dick Baker myself but chose to not post it for one reason. While I truly appreciate what Senator Zien has done for Wisconsin gun owners, and while I was one of the few people who stood on the Senate floor beside him after Chvala and Risser dragged Wisconsin politics into a the throes of tyrrany, I don't like the fact that he claimed and received $19,000 in mileage reimbursments last year. I know that he's not the only Senator in WI to abuse the travel rules, but I'm not donating to them either. Of interesting and somewhat related note, State Sen. Gary George, D-Milwaukee called for the resignation of [red]Senate Majority Leader Chuck Chvala, D-Madison[/red], and Assembly Majority Leader Scott Jensen, R-Waukesha because they have both prevented legislative clerks from releasing the names of employees who accepted legal advice paid for by taxpayers. [url]http://www.badgerherald.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2002/05/07/3cd718775e11b?in_archive=1[/url]The clerks just in the last couple of days released those names despite the fact that they were under court order from some time ago. As you can see from my sig line, I don't like the Wisconsin Senates blatant abuse of power. I hold them all to the same standards no matter what gender, ethnicity, religion, or political affiliation.
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I understand your point on the mileage thing, and certainly the abuse of power, but a few things stick out in my mind about that. First, I really have no idea what kind of miles Zien puts on, so I have no reason to doubt his honesty. It's a long trip from Eau Claire to Madison, and he doesn't fly like some do. Plus I know he put on major miles doing the leg work for the Personal Protection Bill. I guess I think it would be a little stupid for him to lie about mileage in papers he knows will be made public. Second, that story was front page news in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, and I'm sure you know how anti-gun and liberal the Journal Company is. I kind of see that story as the first attack on Zien and some of the Republicans. Where was the honest story about what happened with the Personal Protection Bill? I guess I feel like you have to pick your fights in politics. I am much more concerned about what Dave Zien can and will do for CCW then about his mileage. As far as Gary George goes, I lost respect for him when he stood by and said nothing while Risser and Chvala railroaded the vote on CCW. He is supposedly in favor, but just like the rest of the Democrats, he didn't have the guts to stand up and get his leaders back in line. He sat there just like the rest of Chvalas' lap dogs.
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 10:40:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2002 10:41:38 AM EST by Muad_Dib]
Originally Posted By greenngld: I understand your point on the mileage thing, and certainly the abuse of power, but a few things stick out in my mind about that. First, I really have no idea what kind of miles Zien puts on, so I have no reason to doubt his honesty. It's a long trip from Eau Claire to Madison, and he doesn't fly like some do. Plus I know he put on major miles doing the leg work for the Personal Protection Bill. I guess I think it would be a little stupid for him to lie about mileage in papers he knows will be made public. Second, that story was front page news in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, and I'm sure you know how anti-gun and liberal the Journal Company is. I kind of see that story as the first attack on Zien and some of the Republicans. Where was the honest story about what happened with the Personal Protection Bill? I guess I feel like you have to pick your fights in politics. I am much more concerned about what Dave Zien can and will do for CCW then about his mileage. As far as Gary George goes, I lost respect for him when he stood by and said nothing while Risser and Chvala railroaded the vote on CCW. He is supposedly in favor, but just like the rest of the Democrats, he didn't have the guts to stand up and get his leaders back in line. He sat there just like the rest of Chvalas' lap dogs.
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I'm not trying to say that I think Gary George is fantastic or anything like that. I simply made this statement to point out that the Democrats are even biting at each others throats right now, not just the Republicans. I'm also not trying to attack Sen. Ziens honesty. I don't think it is too far out to believe that he actually travelled as many miles as he claimed for reimbursement. I just don't like the idea that with the state deficit as huge as it is he and others can't find a way to reduce that cost for the taxpayers. I mean, I'm holding an informative, somewhat timely conversation with you and I don't have to travel one single mile to do it. Some business requires face-to-face communication, but not enough to build up $19k in travel mile expenses. At 30 cents a mile (my educated estimate), that would be over 63,000 miles travelled! I'm 100% pro CCW in this state, but I've been re-thinking my stand a little. I'm not sure I completely agree with Zien's bill any more. He gave me a copy of the entire thing a couple of months ago and there are some things that I don't like. But that is beside the point. I think Sen. Zien is a fantastic fighter for the gun community in Wisconsin, and I'll back him all the way when he fights the hidden anti-gun tactics that always seem to creap up in the legislation. You're right about the Sentinal being a liberal rag, but they did write a somewhat fair story about what happened with the PPA. The editorial said something to the effect of "While we don't support this bill and think it will result in the death of every baby seal in the world, the tactics used by Risser and Chvala were abhorent." I'm paraphrasing of course [:)] The story is probably buried somewhere in the PPA thread started by Corey. It's my belief that this will soon dissapear anyway. How many Senators do you think are abusing their travel expense accounts? To many to allow it to become a major issue I think. And it goes all the way to the top.
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 1:25:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2002 1:29:16 PM EST by RobertInMaine]
[red]$1,000!![/red] Wouldn't it just be cheaper to take out the opposition???
Link Posted: 5/10/2002 6:57:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By RobertInMaine: [red]$1,000!![/red] Wouldn't it just be cheaper to take out the opposition???
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:) I kind of thought the same thing when I read that. I am as strong a supporter of Senator Zien as anybody, but I can probably only swing $50 now....I'd be looking for a place to sleep if I wrote out a check for a grand, and like he said I suppose every dollar helps. Plus that would close the door on the new rifle I just picked out. As far as being cheaper to take out the opposition....have you been to Madison? Lots of liberal crackpots...not to cheap that way either.
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 5:27:52 PM EST
Um, Uh, Officially what I meant was to take the opposition out to dinner or something and try to, uh, like, win them over...... Don't want people to get the wrong idea....
Link Posted: 5/11/2002 9:00:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By RobertInMaine: Um, Uh, Officially what I meant was to take the opposition out to dinner or something and try to, uh, like, win them over...... Don't want people to get the wrong idea....
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Yes, right. So did I. It would cost a lot of money to take all the liberal crackpots out for dinner. What other meaning could someone take from that? [0:)]
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