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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/14/2002 6:26:34 PM EDT
Sorry I missed you Corey! Here’s my report: 2/14/02 --Public Hearing on AB675, The Wisconsin Personal Protection Act-- There were an awful lot of empty chairs at the Waukesha VFW, but still, the pro-freedom crowd outweighed the fear bunnies by about 15 to 1. First off: You Superior boys: what the hell can of tuna did you open and find Rep. Frank Boyle in? Holy Hannah! Is that guy deranged!!! He said, and I quote, he will "fight like hell" against this bill to ensure that the cities in this state don’t turn into the Wild West where "we’ll have to hire a Wyatt Earp to come and disarm everybody". This moron couldn’t even correctly re-bleat the VPC propaganda that was provided to him by W.A.V.E. (Wisconsin Anti-violence Effort). He proclaimed (and you Texas boys are going to love this), that [b]in the state of Texas, concealed carry permit holders are 67% more likely to commit a felony than non-permit holders.[/b] I shit you fucking not - 67%, and why would Wisconsin want to subject itself to that? Now I’ve read what the VPC has had to say about TX CHLs and realized what utter bullshit it was in all of about 10 seconds. On the average calculator, there are not enough decimal places to the right to be able to accurately attribute crimes by any State’s CHL holders compared to the rest of the population. So, I have no idea what he’s smoking or where he got the VPC 67% number from – but nonetheless – he was able to say this aloud at a public hearing with no recourse, which sucked (Boyle and a bunch of anti-gun seniors walked off an hour before the hearing was supposed to end, most likely to get to Denny’s before the prices went up). So I guess my point about this is that you Superior guys really suck. I thought all the ultra-libs were in Milwaukee and Madison - but I guess not. Other than that, State Senator David Zien had a pretty good turn at the podium: Shouting, raising clenched fists, slamming folding chairs. A little too ‘old-time-religion’ for me – but I have zero doubt this guy is our friend. I was also very happy to see the NRA send a very apt representative from Virginia. So where do we stand? According to Zien, the Eau Claire hearing registered 102 attendees in favor of the bill and 2 against. I’m sure Waukesha won’t fare quite that well, but we shall see.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 6:58:08 PM EDT
Of the group there, I only saw about 3-4 anti’s speak and I left at around 4 p.m. (been there since 1 p.m. and had to get back to evening routine at home). The following notes are from a few that I jotted down during the hearing. It started with Rep. Gunderson and Senator Zien giving their pitches (the Assembly and Senate sponsors of the bill). Rep. Gunderson actually got choked up when he described getting hit over the head with a crowbar one morning in the summer of 2000 when he went to open his gun shop. He said he’s never done that before (choked up), and it seemed like the emotions finally caught up with him. Yeah, I was moved by that ‘cause he is a crime victim and he’s speaking the truth of what happens – when you’re an unarmed crime victim you’re at the mercy of your attacker. Then some local pro-PPA’s came on. I included one guy who IIRC was a retired big wig (Cpt., Lt, whatever) with the Milwaukee PD. Dolo, correct me cause I might be wrong on this. At any rate, it was quite obvious that he was politically connected. He said that one night a few years ago, he and his wife were at a first class Milwaukee restaurant when his wife’s .38 snubbie fell out of her purse (his story was much more animated and funny, but my fingers are getting sore) in the middle of the restaurant floor. She put it back and they had a great dinner. He goes to the bathroom and sees a local media mogul, who says his wife has him outgunned and shows him a .25 auto. Then, when they’re leaving, he shakes hands with a Milwaukee judge who says he’s “back up” his wife if she needs it, and while shaking hands the judge knocks his hand on the snubbie in the judge’s waistband. His point was that lots of “law abiding” people CCW’s all the time. He seemed like he was well connected and, as I know well connected people share their “secrets” all the time, I don’t doubt his story. He went on to say many other politicians, media people, judges, etc., CCW illegally in Milwaukee. An NRA lobbiest spoke in the top five. He was a younger man, well dressed, who presented the statistic very well. I didn’t expect to see the NRA in Waukesha. He is one of the ones I saw when I left. I shook his hand and said that I was embarrassed that I let my membership lapse, but will write out a check tomorrow. I asked him if his job was fun and he said “It’s stressfull.” I imagine it is. He also spoke in the hearing about national pistol competitions (I’m presuming IPDA, IPSCA, etc.). He said that in his office in VA he has a gun safe in his office and use of the basement range. Decent trigger time, I’m guessing.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 7:02:26 PM EDT
One of the anti’s said that he thought this was all a big setup by the gun industry to sell more guns. This guy was a paid lobbiest for WAVE (WI Anti Violence Effort). A paraphrase is that the NRA and gun industry has been going state to state to pass CHL laws to increase guns sales in the low gun market of the early to mid ‘90’s. He also said gun violence was due to the access to and number of weapons out there. When asked about facts (or lack thereof in his statement), he said it was in the packet presented to the committee and fully footnoted. When asked why the PPA was a bad idea, he said it’s only his “common sense” feeling, and it doesn’t feel good, not a good idea and a wrong message for the kids. He did concede that the pro-PPA forces were well organized and an efficient entity, as evidenced by the turnout at the hearing (overwhelmingly pro-PPA). Representative Boyle is a “gunowner” who believe in keeping guns for home defense but will fight the PPA with every fiber of his being. In his discussions with the above WAVE lobbiest, Boyle (trying to sound like a pro-“home defense” guy I suspect), said that his favorite gun was a 1900’s double barrel shotgun that could “take out a 12 foot wall with two shots at short distance.” Then he said something like that’s the most destructive self defense weapon ever made, or something like that (the guy next to me was almost out of his seat at these inaccurate comments). Then there were a bunch of your typical citizen who supported it, interspersed by a few more WAVE’s. I probably could of stayed there til 6:00 p.m., but had to go. Any other comments Dolomite? BTW, the NRA is doing a TON for WI gun rights. They’ve filed an amicus brief in State v. Gonzales (challenging constitutionality of 941.23 – companion case to State v. Cole on the same issue) and are sending lobbiests here to get the facts out. They are doing a good job. I know that the NRA is actively helping us and urge you to support them. Dolomite: I'll probably think of more to post tomorrow. Whaddaya think our chances are on passing this? I think if we miss we miss by only a small number of votes. But I think there's a realistic chance of passing this is we can get it to the Senate floor. Chvala's at a low-power point. But, it's still an uphill battle I think. BTW, was Dick Baker there? I wanted to meet him and didn't get the chance.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 7:06:33 PM EDT
As far as the 67% figure goes, I think VPC got it from one of THEIR OWN STUDIES, called "License to Kill: Arrests Involving Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders" (Washington, D.C.: Violence Policy Center, 1999). This is from a book by Josh Sugarmann of the VPC, called "Every Handgun Is Aimed at You." While the 67% figure is not mentioned, Sugarmann does quote from the study that "...the weapon-related arrest rate among Texas concealed handgun license holders was [i]more than twice as high as that among the general adult population of Texas eligible to own handguns[/i]." (p. 184) The book is good for a lot of laughs, especially if you know anything at all about either history or statistics, because apparently Mr. Sugarmann doesn't understand either.
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 7:21:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2002 7:34:29 PM EDT by Dolomite]
(Thanks Ikari) I understand the indoor range at NRA HQ is a sight to behold. The beauty of it is - if you're an NRA member and want to use it - there's no charge (or so I've heard). That retired cop with the lovely story about his wife's piece falling out of her purse in the fancy restaurant is none other than THE Jim Fendry. Jim's the only full time pro-gun lobbyist in the state and a pretty decent IDPA shooter. When you hear a Wisconsin Public Radio program regarding guns, they usually have Jim on. If you go to a gun show, and there's some guy harping on the PA about this or that bill, it's probably Jim. He's a great guy. Anyway, I was pretty interested in hearing what the anti's had to say. Apparently anti's don't trust themselves with firearms - and therefore conclude that nobody else could or should be. They also seemingly choose to live right dab smack in the middle of the highest crime districts. I'd like to assume that individually, they're nice people. But I just can't get a grip on why they would want to set themselves up to be victims. Some way, somehow, their version of "common sense" rises out of this. Yep, Baker was there wearing a black suit (seemed like a whole lotta suits were out!).
Link Posted: 2/14/2002 7:40:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2002 7:42:55 PM EDT by Corey]
Was it Dick with with gray hair, a beard, skinny and cowboy boots? EDIT: white shirt and red tie? Like I've said before, I want to meet him if only to shake his hand and thank him.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 4:50:34 AM EDT
BTT Guess Dolo and I were the only AR15.com members that made it to the hearing.... [:|] It wasn't easy for me to get there but I made it. Anyone else that we're missing? Dolomite: I tried to send you an IM. Did you get it? I haven't used this feature that much and might have screwed it up.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 6:38:44 AM EDT
Yep, that was Dick. I've only met him once before and that was at a gun show where I signed up for his e-mail list. I do not recall seeing him at any IPSC/IDPA shoots. Boy, my ass is still chapped over that Boyle character. It is shameful to see that this weasel has been in office [b]16 YEARS[/b]. I'd move up to Superior and run against him, but I can only tolerate the 9 months of pure winter per year that southern Wisconsin gets as it is! IM; I didn't even realize this board had IM! Yes, I got your IM (and a reply is on the way). I also received several from people last month that are now probably too old too respond to. BTW, that Eau Claire TV poll is running 55% for CCW and 45% against (it'll be a lot better after I delete my cookies and vote five more times). Later!
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 7:56:33 AM EDT
Sorry I couldn't make it guys. I'm up in ND going to school. I've been real busy trying to get my Commercial Pilot Certificate, so I don't know much about the bill. Does it look like it has a chance???
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 11:31:59 AM EDT
Yesterday's Results Question: Do you support a bill that would allow Wisconsin residents to carry concealed weapons? YES: 80% NO: 20%
View Quote
[url]http://www.weau.com/poll.asp[/url] Guess we missed that poll -- looks like it was yesterday[>:/] I'm glad we "won" -- if we missed it and "lost" I'd be pissed.
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 12:44:56 PM EDT
hey we're not all crazy up here in superior...funny thing is there are so many sportsman/hunters up here...how does that guy get elected? i plan on writing a letter to the editor sometime before the next election just to educate some people about how clueless this guy is. i would like to have gone but i had to work..(finally got a decent job up here-something that's getting harder and harder to do). maybe i should write the letter now....
Link Posted: 2/15/2002 7:14:54 PM EDT
Inferno715, you got incoming e-mail Brother.
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