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Posted: 4/15/2006 2:46:58 PM EST
The term "dhimmi" ("dh" pronounced as "Z") means "protected" and describes the status of non-Muslims who are allowed to live under conditions that render them inferior to their Muslim conquerors. This term will, no doubt, be new to many readers; it is a term that every American should understand fully.

Dan Simmons has provided a very readable and highly enlightening introduction to "dhimmi" in his April 2006 Message from Dan. This is a must read for every American.

Few Americans comprehend the magnitude of the war that was declared on Americans Feb. 23, 1998. Osama bin Laden's fatwa announced to the world that:

`We – with God's help – call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it.''

This declaration of war hardly made news in 1998. Sept. 11, 2001, did make the news, and Osama bin Laden's name became a household word. But Americans who believe that the war against terrorism is, or should be, focused on bin Laden and his tiny band of extremists fail to comprehend the real enemy, which must destroy the concept of freedom in order to survive.

Islam is the religion of more than 1 billion Muslims around the world. Like Christianity, Islam is divided into many sects that generally fall into one of two persuasions: Sunni, or Shiah. This split came after Muhammad's death when the Sunnis chose to follow the leader Abu Bakr, rather than Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, Ali.


Muhammad was poisoned in 632 after a rather dubious victory over the Jewish settlement of Khaibar. The practice of "dhimmitude" can be traced to the agreement reached with the survivors of this battle.

For more than a thousand years, Islam spread across the Middle East, Africa, throughout Turkey and eastern Europe. In the last century, the continuing spread of Islam has become a significant factor throughout all of Europe, America and much of the Western world.

American values, arising from the principles of freedom, have collided head-on with the principles of Islam. The Shia branch of Islam cannot coexist with American values or the principles of freedom. It is not at all certain that the Sunni branch of Islam can coexist with either American values or the Shia vision of what Islam should be. Terrorism is the tactic of choice for both Islamic branches involved in this collision of ideas.

The war against terrorism, therefore, cannot focus on simply bringing to justice the perpetrators of the attack on the World Trade Center, or the latest crop of bombers in Baghdad, or the kidnappers of Western journalists. The war on terrorism must focus on the real enemy, which is the driving force that has marched Islam around the globe. That is, the Shia belief that Muslims must subjugate, or kill, all non-Muslims.

Clearly, not all Muslims subscribe to this belief. Osama bin Laden does, as do his followers. And those who do not know full well that they are not immune from the atrocities of those who do. Although the vast majority of Muslims around the world subscribe to some version of the Sunni branch, both Iraq and Iran are dominated by Shia. These two branches of Islam have warred with each other throughout history, but when confronted by an infidel nation, such as the United States, their Islamic roots are stronger than their differences.

The Iraqi Sunnis are perfectly willing to allow Al Zarqawi to bomb Shia mosques in an effort to prevent the creation of a government dominated by the Shia, which they fear will exact revenge for 30 years of subjugation of the Shia under Saddam Hussein. Should American forces leave Iraq, Iran would most certainly enter the fray on the side of the Shia, with whatever force necessary for the Shia to take control. With both Iraq and Iran under Shia dominance, the Shia brand of butchery would prevail in the Middle East.

This outcome draws closer each day the new parliament in Iraq fails to form a new unity government. Ibrahim Al Jaffari, the prime minister designate, is a Shia, supported by the Shia religious leader. The Sunnis want someone else. Regardless of who is named as the initial prime minister, this struggle for dominance between the two branches of Islam in Iraq will continue for years to come. The only question yet unanswered is will the struggle be at the ballot box, or continue to be with bombs in the streets?

This struggle between Islamic values and Western values of individual freedom will continue for years, perhaps throughout the century, as Dan Simmons suggests in his message. Should American forces leave Iraq before a unity government is formed and functioning, the struggle in the streets of Baghdad will be brief, and then spread to the streets of Islam's most hated enemies.

Americans who demand that the troops be withdrawn now either don't know the consequences, or don't care. This unwillingness to recognize and engage the real enemy wherever it may be found increases the chances that a future generation of American kids will either be Muslim, or named "dhimmi."

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49748
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 2:55:05 PM EST
We will all be dhimmis. Dhimmi = bitch.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 2:58:31 PM EST
The West and Christianity can never co-exist with Islam. They have always clashed. One, Crristianity, seeks to change men's souls with words and love. The other, Islam, by conquest because that is the only way it can spread.

Notice how Christianity spread when Christ began it and compare to Mohammed's false religion. Same today. Islam cannot stand up to truth and must there use war and terrorism to advance. Islam must also use scare tactics to control their people.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 3:13:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/15/2006 3:15:29 PM EST by glockguy40]

Originally Posted By alaman:
The West and Christianity can never co-exist with Islam. They have always clashed. One, Crristianity, seeks to change men's souls with words and love. The other, Islam, by conquest because that is the only way it can spread.

Notice how Christianity spread when Christ began it and compare to Mohammed's false religion. Same today. Islam cannot stand up to truth and must there use war and terrorism to advance. Islam must also use scare tactics to control their people.



Islam is the world's fastest growing religion... and the last time I checked... no muslim country has fought a war of conquest against the west in nearly 1000 years to advance that goal.

Terrorism, as a tactic, is incapable of seizing and holding territory or forcing conversion on anyone. You have no idea what yo are talking about. The fact is, many muslim countries co-exist peacefully with the west. Individual terrorists do not comprise Islam nor can terrorist organizations claim to represent Islam.

Islam could get along just fine with both Chirstians and the West if we could just get rid of the radicals (both Islamic and Chiristian).
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 3:34:52 PM EST
Osama bin Laden and Al Queda (to include Al Zarqawi) are Wahabbi Sunni.

This analysis misses that.

Sunnis are at the forefront of jihad, its not just Shia.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 3:35:41 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 3:36:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By S30V:
We will all be dhimmis. Dhimmi = bitch.




I wont be going down that way
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 3:36:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/15/2006 3:37:10 PM EST by adair_usmc]

Originally Posted By S30V:
We will all be dhimmis. Dhimmi = bitch.



Nope. Just you.

I am with NonConformist - aint going down that way.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 3:40:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/15/2006 3:43:54 PM EST by DaveS]

Originally Posted By glockguy40:

Originally Posted By alaman:
The West and Christianity can never co-exist with Islam. They have always clashed. One, Crristianity, seeks to change men's souls with words and love. The other, Islam, by conquest because that is the only way it can spread.

Notice how Christianity spread when Christ began it and compare to Mohammed's false religion. Same today. Islam cannot stand up to truth and must there use war and terrorism to advance. Islam must also use scare tactics to control their people.



Islam is the world's fastest growing religion... and the last time I checked... no muslim country has fought a war of conquest against the west in nearly 1000 years to advance that goal.

Terrorism, as a tactic, is incapable of seizing and holding territory or forcing conversion on anyone. You have no idea what yo are talking about. The fact is, many muslim countries co-exist peacefully with the west. Individual terrorists do not comprise Islam nor can terrorist organizations claim to represent Islam.

Islam could get along just fine with both Chirstians and the West if we could just get rid of the radicals (both Islamic and Chiristian).



That is just fucking goddamn shit for brains, waste of sperm logic.

You, sir, are a fucktard.

Dave S

As for CofC, this is not an attack, I drew no blood from the stupid shithead AND he's still breathing.

BTW, The SweetWater 420 was great but their India Pale Ale is very hoppsie. Is hoppsie a word? Man, my cheeks are numb... but, I'm smiling.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 3:43:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/15/2006 3:44:01 PM EST by DK-Prof]

Technically, Osama Bin Laden does not have the authority to issue a fatwa, so any "fatwa" from his is just the rantings of a lunatic, nothing more.

Link Posted: 4/15/2006 3:52:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By glockguy40:
Islam is the world's fastest growing religion... and the last time I checked... no muslim country has fought a war of conquest against the west in nearly 1000 years to advance that goal.

Terrorism, as a tactic, is incapable of seizing and holding territory or forcing conversion on anyone. You have no idea what yo are talking about. The fact is, many muslim countries co-exist peacefully with the west. Individual terrorists do not comprise Islam nor can terrorist organizations claim to represent Islam.

Islam could get along just fine with both Chirstians and the West if we could just get rid of the radicals (both Islamic and Chiristian).



[sarcasm]Christian extremists? Man, they are the worst. Today, just here in Fayetteville, two Methodist churches were car bombed by Baptists while Lutheran suicide bombers targeted a dozen Pentecostal day care centers, slaughtering dozens of children while shouting (in tongues) "Jesus is Lord[/sarcasm]

The Koran, which to a believing Muslim, is the direct, uninterpretable word of Allah, commands the Muslim umma to wage jihad until Islam is the dominate religion of the world.

Nowhere in the New Testament does Christ Jesus command his followers to wage war to spread His word. He commands His followers to love their enemies and to turn the other cheek.

Militant Islam, spread by the prophet Mohammad's armies, conquered the Christian Levant, Christian Egypt, Christian North Africa, Christian Spain (and threatened France until defeated at Tours) and Christian Sicily. Under the Ottoman Caliphate, Islam conquered the Christian Eastern Roman Empire, the Christian Balkans, and threatened Austria, Romania and Hungary until defeated at Vienna.

"BUT THOSE EVIL CRUSADES!!!" Flawed and ultimately failed attempts to reclaim Christian lands. Reclaim.

But in Islam jurisprudence, once land is Islamic, so it must stay. So Osama bin Laden demands Spain become Islamic Andalusia again.

Muslim nations don't threaten the West.

Link Posted: 4/15/2006 3:56:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By S30V:
We will all be dhimmis. Dhimmi = bitch.



Not me buddy, But then again I have the means to defend myself or die trying.

You GBR types really need to rethink your gun laws. Maybe then you wouldn't be so defeatist.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 4:04:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Technically, Osama Bin Laden does not have the authority to issue a fatwa, so any "fatwa" from his is just the rantings of a lunatic, nothing more.



Actually Sheikh Osama bin Laden, as a Wahabi Sunni mullah (learned teacher) can issue a fatwa. Whether any of the dominant schools of Islamic jurisprudence support it or not is another story.

Among Wahabi Sunni, many mullahs support OBL's fatwas in word and deed, though they practice kitman and taqiyya so as to dissemble and obfuscate the truth of their support. Of course, that's true of most Sunni mullahs and Shia imams / ayatollahs. Some Shia have been expressing that OBL is the Mahdi, though that's a tiny minority view that illustrates how wide his support is (for Shia to suggest a Sunni - and a Wahabi at that - could be the Mahdi is like Baptists kneeling before the Pope).
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 4:05:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By glockguy40:

Originally Posted By alaman:
The West and Christianity can never co-exist with Islam. They have always clashed. One, Crristianity, seeks to change men's souls with words and love. The other, Islam, by conquest because that is the only way it can spread.

Notice how Christianity spread when Christ began it and compare to Mohammed's false religion. Same today. Islam cannot stand up to truth and must there use war and terrorism to advance. Islam must also use scare tactics to control their people.



Islam is the world's fastest growing religion... and the last time I checked... no muslim country has fought a war of conquest against the west in nearly 1000 years to advance that goal.



Well, please, please, do check again! Check September 11, 1683.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 4:06:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:

Originally Posted By S30V:
We will all be dhimmis. Dhimmi = bitch.



Nope. Just you.

I am with NonConformist - aint going down that way.



Well great, so you will either be dead of a bitch. I never said which route I would choose, so don't decide for me, thank you very much.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 4:08:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/15/2006 4:09:59 PM EST by S30V]

Originally Posted By weptek911:

Originally Posted By S30V:
We will all be dhimmis. Dhimmi = bitch.



Not me buddy, But then again I have the means to defend myself or die trying.

You GBR types really need to rethink your gun laws. Maybe then you wouldn't be so defeatist.



Who ever said I am British? Oh, you see the GBR and think so? Sorry, try again.


And thanks for knowing so much about me just like that. Yeah, I am an instant defeatist. Wow, you know me so well!
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 4:18:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By S30V:

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:

Originally Posted By S30V:
We will all be dhimmis. Dhimmi = bitch.



Nope. Just you.

I am with NonConformist - aint going down that way.



Well great, so you will either be dead of a bitch. I never said which route I would choose, so don't decide for me, thank you very much.




I'd rather die than capitulate.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 4:27:42 PM EST
Adolf
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 4:35:04 PM EST
A quick note, it's actually pronounced ['ðim.mi] or theem-mee (with "th" being as "the" rather than "thing").
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 4:39:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By ODA_564:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Technically, Osama Bin Laden does not have the authority to issue a fatwa, so any "fatwa" from his is just the rantings of a lunatic, nothing more.



Actually Sheikh Osama bin Laden, as a Wahabi Sunni mullah (learned teacher) can issue a fatwa. Whether any of the dominant schools of Islamic jurisprudence support it or not is another story.



Right - I was trying to oversimplify a point. Most actual Islamic scholars (of most mainstream schools of Islam) seem to hold that OBL is not of the pedigree or training that would qualify him to issue ANY fatwa - but I agree there is apparently some debate about that.

My impression is also that while a lot of Wahhabits and other mullahs/imams/whatevers might personally AGREE with his message, they are very reluctant to give his "fatwas" any credence, because that would set the precedent that anyone of his limited standing could start issuing fatwas, which is currently limited to a very specialized group of senior clerics (of which OBL is not a mamber, nor ever has been).



Among Wahabi Sunni, many mullahs support OBL's fatwas in word and deed, though they practice kitman and taqiyya so as to dissemble and obfuscate the truth of their support. Of course, that's true of most Sunni mullahs and Shia imams / ayatollahs. Some Shia have been expressing that OBL is the Mahdi, though that's a tiny minority view that illustrates how wide his support is (for Shia to suggest a Sunni - and a Wahabi at that - could be the Mahdi is like Baptists kneeling before the Pope).



I agree completely that there is a large amount of support his his messages.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 4:47:21 PM EST
Islam was spread through the Middle East by conquest, they conquered Spain, and they attacked Europe from the East as well, being turned back from Austria in the 1680s. Muslim orthodoxy, Muslim history, and the Koran itself all endorse conquest and threats as legitimate means of spreading the faith.

There haven't been any recent Muslim wars of conquest (other than the one(s) we're in now) because Islamic countries were militarily and economically incapable of mounting them. Renunciation of conquest and dhimmitude as means of effecting conversion is heretical. Religious violence in Islam is neither an aberration nor merely part of history. The Koran actually calls for Muslims to make war on unbelievers, sparing them and their property only if they convert. Dhimmitude is intended to force conversion by imposition of disabilities on non-Muslims with no way out but conversion. Islam and its "god" are perfectly happy to win souls by threatening bodies.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 4:47:31 PM EST
i mean.. they want us dead more than converted. all you gotta do is read mousaiwis comments this last week.. but .. but. whattatheygonnado? land 500,000 islamic jihadis in miami and march north??

their bark is MUCH MUCH worse than their bite. sure they wanna take a really big bite but heck in the end they are just a bunch of camel fuckers hiding in caves or figuring out the easiest ways to make bombs outta soda pop and fertilizer....

i don't think they pose near the threat that they wanna pose..

you wanna watch out for some folks i think its the chinese, determined, organized or growing economically and militarily in leaps and bounds....

just dont see the threat that some people see in islam....
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 5:18:20 PM EST
No. Death before defeat.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 5:31:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/15/2006 5:49:46 PM EST by Jacketch]

Originally Posted By glockguy40:

Originally Posted By alaman:
The West and Christianity can never co-exist with Islam. They have always clashed. One, Crristianity, seeks to change men's souls with words and love. The other, Islam, by conquest because that is the only way it can spread.

Notice how Christianity spread when Christ began it and compare to Mohammed's false religion. Same today. Islam cannot stand up to truth and must there use war and terrorism to advance. Islam must also use scare tactics to control their people.



Islam is the world's fastest growing religion... and the last time I checked... no muslim country has fought a war of conquest against the west in nearly 1000 years to advance that goal.

Terrorism, as a tactic, is incapable of seizing and holding territory or forcing conversion on anyone. You have no idea what yo are talking about. The fact is, many muslim countries co-exist peacefully with the west. Individual terrorists do not comprise Islam nor can terrorist organizations claim to represent Islam.




en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Vienna

The Siege of Vienna (distinct from the Battle of Vienna) was in 1529

The US Navy was formed (after being disbanded following the Revolutionary War) to fight the Barbary Coast pirates which were really the north African Islamic countries who were trying to force jizya from the USA.



Islam could get along just fine with both Chirstians and the West if we could just get rid of the radicals (both Islamic and Chiristian).


They could get along if the Shiites and Methodists would just quit the terrorist attacks.

Link Posted: 4/15/2006 5:39:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/15/2006 5:39:59 PM EST by Echo_Hotel]
Edit:

Nevermind. You rascals beat me to it.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 5:42:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By DaveS:

Originally Posted By glockguy40:

Originally Posted By alaman:
The West and Christianity can never co-exist with Islam. They have always clashed. One, Crristianity, seeks to change men's souls with words and love. The other, Islam, by conquest because that is the only way it can spread.

Notice how Christianity spread when Christ began it and compare to Mohammed's false religion. Same today. Islam cannot stand up to truth and must there use war and terrorism to advance. Islam must also use scare tactics to control their people.



Islam is the world's fastest growing religion... and the last time I checked... no muslim country has fought a war of conquest against the west in nearly 1000 years to advance that goal.

Terrorism, as a tactic, is incapable of seizing and holding territory or forcing conversion on anyone. You have no idea what yo are talking about. The fact is, many muslim countries co-exist peacefully with the west. Individual terrorists do not comprise Islam nor can terrorist organizations claim to represent Islam.

Islam could get along just fine with both Chirstians and the West if we could just get rid of the radicals (both Islamic and Chiristian).



That is just fucking goddamn shit for brains, waste of sperm logic.

You, sir, are a fucktard.

Dave S

As for CofC, this is not an attack, I drew no blood from the stupid shithead AND he's still breathing.

BTW, The SweetWater 420 was great but their India Pale Ale is very hoppsie. Is hoppsie a word? Man, my cheeks are numb... but, I'm smiling.



dude you're wasting your time. he's a Californian. pointing out the truth will NEVER sway him.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 6:03:50 PM EST
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