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Posted: 2/22/2016 7:54:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2016 8:09:18 PM EDT by danimal11]
With the recent events between Russia and NATO/non-NATO countries, do you think there will ever be a time when Russia won't be considered an antagonist to the United States? For example, do you think they might join NATO in the next 20 years? What say you?
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:04:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2016 8:04:54 PM EDT by XM15M4Guy]
They will always be my enemy, at any rate.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:08:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By XM15M4Guy:
They will always be my enemy, at any rate.
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I have always been interested in russia post cold war. Its amazing how putin is trying to reinstate cold war tensions.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:12:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2016 8:12:43 PM EDT by 4v50]
No.  Right now it's the neo-cons in charge and one of the principles they believe is that there can be only one superpower, the US, and that the US should do anything  necessary to ensure that no other power threatens that status.  Look up the Wolfowicz Doctrine.   When we're done with hyper-inflation, I doubt if that policy will remain in effect.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:16:20 PM EDT
I miss the cold war. Hell, without the cold war we would of never had Red Dawn or The Hunt for Red October. Life was just more interesting when we were under the constant threat of full nuclear war at any minute.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:18:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2016 8:20:19 PM EDT by danimal11]
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Originally Posted By 4v50:
No.  Right now it's the neo-cons in charge and one of the principles they believe is that there can be only one superpower, the US, and that the US should do anything  necessary to ensure that no other power threatens that status.  Look up the Wolfowicz Doctrine.   When we're done with hyper-inflation, I doubt if that policy will remain in effect.
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So whats that have to do with russian policy; Putin already neglects America? if I'm not mistaken that only pertains to the U.S. What happens when this policy fails to remain relevant?
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:18:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By -Apocalypto-:
I miss the cold war. Hell, without the cold war we would of never had Red Dawn or The Hunt for Red October. Life was just more interesting when we were under the constant threat of full nuclear war at any minute.
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Great propaganda.  We'd laugh at the sh*t the Russians or Chinese would say.  Now we only have the Norks for old fashion Cold War propaganda.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:21:58 PM EDT
Until the Soviets are out of power, yes.

Adopt an actual democratic government, the Latin alphabet (instead of commiefont), and stop arming hostile countries and we can talk
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:23:07 PM EDT
I voted No
But and take this as Gospel
They are a proud people and will never back down,
not unlike the US.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:23:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By danimal11:


So whats that have to do with russian policy? if I'm not mistaken that only pertains to the U.S. What happens when this policy fails to remain relevant?
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Originally Posted By danimal11:
Originally Posted By 4v50:
No.  Right now it's the neo-cons in charge and one of the principles they believe is that there can be only one superpower, the US, and that the US should do anything  necessary to ensure that no other power threatens that status.  Look up the Wolfowicz Doctrine.   When we're done with hyper-inflation, I doubt if that policy will remain in effect.


So whats that have to do with russian policy? if I'm not mistaken that only pertains to the U.S. What happens when this policy fails to remain relevant?

US won't have the resources to ensure enforce that doctrine.  We've been broke and the world isn't buying our debt anymore.  When the Wolfowicz Doctrine is discarded, our defense spending will drop since there will be fewer foreign adventures (Iraq, Libya, Syria and all those quasi-wars).  I would expect to see a decrease in other nation's defense spending too.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:25:13 PM EDT
A threat?  No, I have never been and will never be afraid of the fucking bear.  They are no threat to me or mine.  But I will allow my hate for them to keep me warm until I am in my grave.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:26:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 4v50:

US won't have the resources to ensure enforce that doctrine.  We've been broke and the world isn't buying our debt anymore.  When the Wolfowicz Doctrine is discarded, our defense spending will drop since there will be fewer foreign adventures (Iraq, Libya, Syria and all those quasi-wars).  I would expect to see a decrease in other nation's defense spending too.
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Originally Posted By 4v50:
Originally Posted By danimal11:
Originally Posted By 4v50:
No.  Right now it's the neo-cons in charge and one of the principles they believe is that there can be only one superpower, the US, and that the US should do anything  necessary to ensure that no other power threatens that status.  Look up the Wolfowicz Doctrine.   When we're done with hyper-inflation, I doubt if that policy will remain in effect.


So whats that have to do with russian policy? if I'm not mistaken that only pertains to the U.S. What happens when this policy fails to remain relevant?

US won't have the resources to ensure enforce that doctrine.  We've been broke and the world isn't buying our debt anymore.  When the Wolfowicz Doctrine is discarded, our defense spending will drop since there will be fewer foreign adventures (Iraq, Libya, Syria and all those quasi-wars).  I would expect to see a decrease in other nation's defense spending too.


So when are spending and presence falls, won't a power such as Russia or China claim the torch? The whole Putin administration strikes me as anti-west and he has brainwashed his civilians into believing what he says for the most part.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:29:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Star_Scream:
Until the Soviets are out of power, yes.

Adopt an actual democratic government, the Latin alphabet (instead of commiefont), and stop arming hostile countries and we can talk
View Quote


Pochemu alfavit vazhnyy?
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:29:23 PM EDT
We REALLY need to use all these nukes, before they go bad.



Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:31:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Kopec:


Pochemu alfavit vazhnyy?
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Originally Posted By Kopec:
Originally Posted By Star_Scream:
Until the Soviets are out of power, yes.

Adopt an actual democratic government, the Latin alphabet (instead of commiefont), and stop arming hostile countries and we can talk


Pochemu alfavit vazhnyy?


The Latin alphabet is the alphabet of freedom
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:32:59 PM EDT
Not if trumps elected. Putin thinks he's the greatest thing since PB&J
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:33:15 PM EDT
Ask yourself this question: "Am I, and people like me, more likely to be killed by the U.S. government or the Russian government?"
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:35:55 PM EDT
Everything is a "threat" and "enemy" to the US, even our "friends".

An actual enemy, though?  No.


Of course we do get to talk about the great Red Menace and how they'll be our mortal enemies forever for some reason.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:36:44 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By rapracing:


Not if trumps elected. Putin thinks he's the greatest thing since PB&J
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If Bernie is elected he will be having coffee at the kremlin every Sunday.



 
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:40:54 PM EDT
Idk. Both putin and medvediv publicly claim the U.S. to be THERE number one threat. Although he may not be ours, this doesn't look good when we let our guard down.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:43:48 PM EDT
Yep, natural cultural enemy of the west.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:46:11 PM EDT
Commies will always be commies
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:50:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By danimal11:


I have always been interested in russia post cold war. Its amazing how putin is trying to reinstate cold war tensions.
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Originally Posted By danimal11:
Originally Posted By XM15M4Guy:
They will always be my enemy, at any rate.


I have always been interested in russia post cold war. Its amazing how putin is trying to reinstate cold war tensions.


It works for North Korea
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:51:33 PM EDT
if being their allies during ww2 didn't bring us close I doubt anything ever will. The Rowers are just a fucked up type of viking.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:51:55 PM EDT
Always have been, always will be.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:52:06 PM EDT
Yes.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:53:34 PM EDT
Putin needs an external enemy to justify his rule. Could Russia have been an equal partner with the west? Certainly but they,and by they I mean Putin and underlings,do not want such a relationship.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:57:24 PM EDT
I still foreseen, even after putin "leaves" office, russia opposing use
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 8:57:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By XM15M4Guy:
They will always be my enemy, at any rate.
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But yet no one looks at China in the same way, and I think that is odd.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:00:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 4v50:
No.  Right now it's the neo-cons in charge and one of the principles they believe is that there can be only one superpower, the US, and that the US should do anything  necessary to ensure that no other power threatens that status.  Look up the Wolfowicz Doctrine.   When we're done with hyper-inflation, I doubt if that policy will remain in effect.
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Are you serious? The neocons in power, The so called NEO's lost power going on 10 years ago?, last I checked Obama was giving them whatever they want? I got news for you,  I lived in Russia and this has bumpkis to do with Russia's new found aggression. Russia has been doing this since George Washington was president and will continue doing so for as long as they are capable.

Russia is doing this because we are projecting weakness. Whatever their faults, Neocons did not project weakness.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:00:18 PM EDT
We shouldn't be enemies still. Our government has been much more aggressive toward Russia than Russia has been toward us since the end of the Cold War. I mean, we consider SAudi -fucking -Arabia as an ally, we have no moral high horse.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:02:33 PM EDT
Once a commie, always a commie.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:04:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By beardog30:
Yep, natural cultural enemy of the west.
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This is true. Sometimes Russia ends up fighting the bad guys, sometimes it leads the bad guys. It isn't inherently a good guy for cultural reasons. This will not change until their culture changes.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:04:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2016 9:05:22 PM EDT by wganz]
We've always been at war with Eastasia.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:06:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2016 9:08:04 PM EDT by LittlePony]
Originally Posted By danimal11:
With the recent events between Russia and NATO/non-NATO countries, do you think there will ever be a time when Russia won't be considered an antagonist to the United States? For example, do you think they might join NATO in the next 20 years? What say you?
View Quote


will Russia not been seen as a enemy? dont know, maybe some day.

but

Russia will always be seen as Russia.

they have not changed to much over the century's
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:07:49 PM EDT
Russia's less Commie than us now...

Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:08:26 PM EDT
Russians are gonna Rus.



Part of Rusing is having paranoid xenophobia about the outside world and projecting upon all foreigners, your own predisposition for deceit, underhandedness and skullduggery.  In short, they're hostile, and because of that they think everybody else is too.




For every "we got invaded" story the russians have, their neighbors have two "the Russians invaded us" stories to match.




Russia will always Rus.  They can only be, at best under the most peaceable of circumstances, a truculent adversary.






Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:08:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2016 9:12:23 PM EDT by DonS]
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Originally Posted By pivoproseem:
We shouldn't be enemies still. Our government has been much more aggressive toward Russia than Russia has been toward us since the end of the Cold War. I mean, we consider SAudi -fucking -Arabia as an ally, we have no moral high horse.
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We are enemies because they want to be enemies. We would have been happy to be friends.

Saudi Arabia has had a pragmatic government that has been an ally. Saudi pragmatism is the result of their weakness and their need to choose between the West and East during the Cold War. If an Arab Spring type event sweeps away the current government in SA the result will probably be similar to the Iranian Revolution.

And, we have to have allies in this world, and in many cases if not most that means we get flees.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:10:22 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By pivoproseem:
We shouldn't be enemies still. Our government has been much more aggressive toward Russia than Russia has been toward us since the end of the Cold War. I mean, we consider SAudi -fucking -Arabia as an ally, we have no moral high horse.
View Quote


Truth.  I don't claim to know best, but I do understand the "strategery" involved.
Chess, not checkers.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:11:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Russians are gonna Rus.

Part of Rusing is having paranoid xenophobia about the outside world and projecting upon all foreigners, your own predisposition for deceit, underhandedness and skullduggery.  In short, they're hostile, and because of that they think everybody else is too.


For every "we got invaded" story the russians have, their neighbors have two "the Russians invaded us" stories to match.


Russia will always Rus.  They can only be, at best under the most peaceable of circumstances, a truculent adversary.
View Quote


Russia has always had an elevated opinion of themselves, also. They bask in the glow of the Cold War, when they were considered a superpower, when in reality they were more a hybred banana republic/industrial nation that had nukes.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:14:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By outofbattery:
Putin needs an external enemy to justify his rule. Could Russia have been an equal partner with the west? Certainly but they,and by they I mean Putin and underlings,do not want such a relationship.
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I don't think that could have happened. Russia would want an equal role, Russia would behave according to different moral standards, Russia would not trust the West or the US. Russia would be a banana republic with, at best, crony capitalism.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:17:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RedBones:



But yet no one looks at China in the same way, and I think that is odd.
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Originally Posted By RedBones:
Originally Posted By XM15M4Guy:
They will always be my enemy, at any rate.



But yet no one looks at China in the same way, and I think that is odd.


Because the TV doesn't say china is an enemy.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:17:44 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RedBones:



But yet no one looks at China in the same way, and I think that is odd.
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Originally Posted By RedBones:
Originally Posted By XM15M4Guy:
They will always be my enemy, at any rate.



But yet no one looks at China in the same way, and I think that is odd.



Russia doesn't make rubber dog turds for us.
Follow the money.

I hope we don't get into another Cold War. They can always turn into Hot Wars...with nukes.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:34:30 PM EDT
If it's Turkey vs. Russia, I hope the fucking Russians roll into Istanbul.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:35:47 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By pivoproseem:
If it's Turkey vs. Russia, I hope the fucking Russians roll into Istanbul.
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Its heating up in turkey with the kurds and russian. It will be interesting how much longer russia puts up with turkey
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:54:33 PM EDT
Never trust a Russian.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:57:25 PM EDT
It all started with these two..

Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:59:12 PM EDT
I'd like to see Trump make a deal with them and steamroll the Muslims.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:59:56 PM EDT
The idea of a nation state having a permanent enemy, or permanent allies for that matter, is stupid. Sure, we can have competing interests and that may lead to conflict, but it should not be permanent.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 10:10:52 PM EDT
Actually, Russian and American interests are rapidly converging.... just too many old "cold warriors" who refuse to see what's happening (changes) in the world today. If we began actively trading with Russia to a greater degree, we'd find that we have more in common with them than with a number of western european countries. DAMN sight more in common than with China. But, unfortunately, too many people still in power who won't open their eyes.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 10:56:35 PM EDT
As long as the dumb fucking neocons are influential in government.
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