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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/2/2005 7:41:40 AM EDT
Just wondering.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:44:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 7:45:20 AM EDT by ar15bubba]

Originally Posted By monkeyman:
Just wondering.



FEMA head possibly should be fired

DHS head?NO... he is here to guard against terror.

NOLA Mayor yes!

LA Gov yes!

No one could figure out how to get bottles of water to people on overpasses for 3 days????
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:44:16 AM EDT
Why?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:44:54 AM EDT
LA needs a governor, and N'Awlins needs a mayor with the balls and brains to lead.

FEMA takes 3 to 5 days to get moving, and they are right on schedule.

Preparations are still an INDIVIDUAL responsibility.

Ops
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:45:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:46:18 AM EDT
Chances no, if that was to happen it would say " look we were incompetent" the government doesn't do such things.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:48:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 7:48:30 AM EDT by cluster]

Originally Posted By Ops:

Preparations are still an INDIVIDUAL responsibility.

Ops



wow.. how dare you say i am responsable for me,,, the nerve..

but really ..

it did seem to me to take a long tme to get this going..
maybe I dont know how long it should take.. but it seemed like a long time to me..
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:48:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Why?



Because it's Bushes fault and the news media hasn't show a positive story in the 120 hours since the storm came through so nothing is happening positive.



Yep.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:49:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cluster:

Originally Posted By Ops:

Preparations are still an INDIVIDUAL responsibility.

Ops



wow.. how dare you say i am responsable for me,,, the nerve..

but really ..

it did seem to me to take a long tme to get this going..
maybe I dont know how long it should take.. but it seemed like a long time to me..



Rescuing 100,000 people takes a little more time than ordering a Big Mac at the drive thru.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:52:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 7:55:01 AM EDT by cluster]

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By cluster:

Originally Posted By Ops:

Preparations are still an INDIVIDUAL responsibility.

Ops



wow.. how dare you say i am responsable for me,,, the nerve..

but really ..

it did seem to me to take a long tme to get this going..
maybe I dont know how long it should take.. but it seemed like a long time to me..



Rescuing 100,000 people takes a little more time than ordering a Big Mac at the drive thru.



I know and I understand,,,


but the folks that will make it on TV will be saying it took to long.. bush wanted us to die..
the .gov didnt save ME..
the .gov didnt _____________



ETA,,

well maybe I dont know.. i did say I didnt know how long it would take,, and thats the point the people that will complain dont know this and the dont care.. the .gov simply didnt _______- < fill in the blank > and will be ready for the handouts they "deserve and earned" < for not leaving like they were told >


Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:56:51 AM EDT
Some people seem to mean well but have a very poor grasp when it comes to logistics. Logistics folks, is the key here. And logistics is not simple.

For example, we could within a matter of a few hours add 5,000 troops on the ground. That's the easy part. But what happens when those 5,000 troops run out of supplies? Huh? They are nothing more than victims themselves at that point because they can't get around and they can't resupply themselves.

Before we can truly start helping people, we must first get the logistics in place. Like it or not, that's just the way it is. And unfortunately, it takes time. For every 5,000 troops we send into the city, we'll need 25,000 in the area to support them. You can't get that many people into place overnight. It takes time. Those navy ships that left their east coast ports will bring tremendous help when they arrive. But again, they can only sail so fast and they can't make the ships go faster.

Think people. When you send just 5000 troops into Louisiana, what do you need in place to sustain them? If they bring 200 trucks with them, do you realize how much diesel they are going to need to operate those? Guess what? That has to be brought in too because there is none available locally. These men have to eat and have somewhere to stay too. So there's more shipments that must be made. Helicopters? Those require a ton of fuel as well as maintenance. So all of that has to be brought in too. It takes an amazing amount of material to support such an ongoing operation. It's simply not feasible to snap your fingers and have everything there you need immediately. It defies physics.

To be honest, I think some of the blame I'm seeing people tossing around is borderline retarded. It comes from a lack of knowledge. So many people seem to be totally clueless what it takes to make something like this work. This is a disaster people! It's a disaster that in size and scope is unlike ANYTHING we've ever dealt with. It spans 4 states. Such a disaster simply pushes our capabilities to the max, in fact, it's really beyond our abilities. That's why it's a disaster. If this was a picnic it wouldn't be a disaster would it?

Our government at the local, state and federal level are doing their best. I'll admit, their best isn't enough. But I'll also admit, knowing just what is involved here that it's simply such a large scale disaster that no matter what, people are going to suffer. I hate to see this footage on the news of people in these dire situations as much as anyone here. But I'm also realistic enough to understand that not everyone can be helped right away, as much as I'd love to see that. It just isn't physically possible. That's the cold hard truth. You may not like it, but that's just the way it is.

The situation will get better as more men, materials and equipment arrive. But as I said, that unfortunately takes time. Many of the units called up several days ago are just now completing mobilization and reaching the area. Many in this country expect everything to be instant coffee, but that's just now how the real world works.

There's no way this is ever going to be a good situation. It will still be bad in a week. It'll be bad a month from now. But it will get better. But sadly, there will probably be some people who it will be too late for. That's not the fault of government. Government simply can't save everyone caught in situations like this all the time. In fact, people's total dependence on the government these days is a huge factor in this situation to begin with. Had people taken a few measures on their own...such as attempting to evacuate when they had the chance or stocking emergency supplies before the storm hit, like the government recommends, the misery and suffering could have been reduced.

You can toss blame around all you want. You can try to politicize this all you want. But I see that for what it is...unproductive BS! This is a tragedy and we are doing the best we can to deal with an event that's simply unimaginable and unprecedented in scope. As such, we aren't going to be able to do everything we'd like, though we wish we could. You're only kidding youself if you think we can. We probably have 1 million or more stuck in and around the New Orleans area alone. Think of the millions of others stuck in other areas like Slidell, Gulfport, Biloxi and Mobile and the other towns in LA, MS, AL, etc. Then think of just how much men and material it would take to bring a single meal to just 4 million people. Think about that. Then maybe you can realize just what we are up against and how difficult this is to deal with. Then maybe you'll take your criticism and turn it to something else. It's easy to sit and criticise. It's a different matter for those ACTUALLY having to deal with this. That's my advice to all those sitting on their ass and complaining about this being "too slow".

In short, hell no FEMA officials should not be fired. It's not their fault that this is the biggest disaster to ever hit the United States and is exhausting our resources. No amount of planning could have changed that fact.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:59:32 AM EDT
Did FEMA or DHS cause the levies to break? What you are seeing is not the response to the hurricane; they were prepared for that. What you are seeing is the unpreparedness for the breaking of the levies. Should the Corps of Engineers be restaffed? They're saying they asked for the money to strengthen the levies but were turned down.

Assigning blame for this mess is like blaming my dog for a drunk driver. I'd be doing it just because.


Watching FoxNews this morning I find out it could have been much worse. The regional switching office for BellSouth is in NO. BS employees have been busting ass to keep that office up and running so the ENTIRE SOUTHEAST US doesn't lose phone service. Sit back and think about that one for a minute.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:00:34 AM EDT
the ones that should lose their job are the mayor of NO and governor of LA. they did not have a plan on how to deal with this. they knew the levees would break and the city would flood. the federal gov. adds and supports local gov. looks like the governor and mayor expects the feds to plan and carryout what needs to be done.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:01:29 AM EDT
I saw relief trucks rolling south through East Texas before the storm made landfall.

How does anyone expect that it would even be possible to help 100's of thousands of people at the same time.

What do y'all think those relief workers were doing?
They were helping people........the people they already helped just don't get TV time.

I wish some of the people bitching had the guts to tell the people who are there working their asses off in those conditions, that they aren't doing their jobs.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:03:47 AM EDT
Mayor of NO, governor of Louisiana, their entire staffs and the police chief should lose their jobs. This was not and is not the federal government's responsibility.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:06:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Some people seem to mean well but have a very poor grasp when it comes to logistics. Logistics folks, is the key here. And logistics is not simple.




Excelent reply.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:08:21 AM EDT
Will they? No.

Should they? Yes.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:09:05 AM EDT
Charging Handle,
Excellent post. Unfortunately, those that need to read it won't because it's too long and complicated to understand. They would rather repeat what they heard Fox or CNN say today. That way they don't have to engage their brains. Reading your post and comprehending it takes too much mental effort for them.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:13:15 AM EDT
The President declared a state of emergency BEFORE the storm hit, FEMA started moving then. IMO the Federal response has been about as quick and good as one could expect.

The State of LA on the other had has shown its usual level of incompetence. The whole State has always been run like a third world banana republic, corruption on a massive scale is the norm.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:16:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 8:18:55 AM EDT by Charging_Handle]
This is truly a desperate situation. People must understand that these rescuers are doing everything possible to help. If they could provide food, shelter and transport to all of these people immediately, then they'd do it. But the realities on the ground there aren't like that and they have a limited amount of resources to work with. So again, they are trying to make the best of a desperate situation in which there are no easy fixes or solutions. Let me add, in the 1991 and 2003 Persian Gulf Wars, we brought in 500,000 and 250,000 troops, respectfully. Now think of all the support it required to get them there and sustain them. In each case, it took nearly every available transport aircraft and ship we had in our inventory. And this required several months to get into place. Plus, in those cases, their was ample time to plan ahead of time and wasn't having to be hastily put together like this situation. Now consider that we are trying to supply and support an even greater number of people, scattered over a large area, in areas that are hard to get into and in the span of just a few days, not months. That should help understand the magnitude of this situation and just how difficult the task is.

Now what the hell more could any reasonable person expect these people to do?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:24:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 8:25:44 AM EDT by Echo_Hotel]

Originally Posted By cluster:
...it did seem to me to take a long tme to get this going..
maybe I dont know how long it should take.. but it seemed like a long time to me..


Yup. "Seemed" is the critical factor. It is, of course, not just you. People in general are somehow under the impression that tens of thousands of personnel and hundreds of helicopters, millions of tons of supplies can be magically whisked from that big giant, uh, Magic Disaster Warehouse© up in Governmentland in the blink of an eye.

As the often pernicious ubiquity of the electronic media grows, the average citizen's detachment from anything resembling reality grows right along with it.

Who'da thunk it?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:29:54 AM EDT
Everbody knew about Katrina and saw it coming.
There was some uncertainty, but no doubt it would hit somewhere nearby.
It may not have been a "convenient time" of the year for many, but contingency planning exists.
Just imagine a "non-natural", unscheduled event without an evacuation....
So much for all the efforts and monies expended since 9/11!
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:48:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ops:
LA needs a governor, and N'Awlins needs a mayor with the balls and brains to lead.

FEMA takes 3 to 5 days to get moving, and they are right on schedule.

Preparations are still an INDIVIDUAL responsibility.

Ops




Yup. That jives with my understanding of FEMA. You don't just shit thousands of relief workers and tons upon tons of supplies into an area overnight.


This is why FEMA and DHS have been pushing for people to have at a minimum 72hrs of disaster supplies on hand. Ready.gov ring a bell? Pamphlets and Red Cross literature, anyone?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:49:11 AM EDT
They had some relief staged beforehand but it had to be out of the path of the storm or it too might have been destroyed.

Most people don't seem to grasp the depth of the situation, that the only people suffering are those in NO at the Stuperdome. This hit four states and was probably one of the biggest and most damaging storms in our history. Its going to take timeand effort, not bitching and complaining to get things done right.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:49:48 AM EDT


FEMA has been asking for more money from congress since 2002 to better prepare
for a scenario just like this in New Orleans.

The funds were never provided.

The Army Corps of Engineers has been asking for funds to improve & reinforce the
levee system in New orleans for over a decade, the funds have not been provided.


Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:52:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WSAR15:
Everbody knew about Katrina and saw it coming.
There was some uncertainty, but no doubt it would hit somewhere nearby.
It may not have been a "convenient time" of the year for many, but contingency planning exists.
Just imagine a "non-natural", unscheduled event without an evacuation....
So much for all the efforts and monies expended since 9/11!



It has been days…

Exactly this kind of instant gratification mentality is a big part of the damn problem.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:57:00 AM EDT
A massive convoy of military cargo trucks and a massive fleet of buses are staging near the convention center in NO. A new wave of relief has arrived.

It just takes time folks. Now it's all starting to come together.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 9:01:47 AM EDT
From what the news reported last night, the President and Federal Gov are impeded by laws that state that Gov of a State must request additional assistance before the Feds can act. In this case, the LA Gov has been very slow and indecisive.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 9:44:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
The State of LA on the other had has shown its usual level of incompetence. The whole State has always been run like a third world banana republic, corruption on a massive scale is the norm.



Isn't the LA govt. structure a throwback to their old French colonial days? That could be something right there.

(I knew there had to be a way to blame the froggies for this.)
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