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Posted: 8/17/2004 5:41:59 PM EST
WTF.....
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:44:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:46:17 PM EST
You mean him and Pat Garrett were ........................... nevermind I don't want to know.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:46:29 PM EST
They just said transvestite, and having sex with men....
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:46:43 PM EST
Everything I've read about Billy indicates that he was a regular Casanova, especially with the little Latinas.

I recently noticed that a guy I went to high school with is a frequent commentator on Wild West Tech. Didn't know him but it's pretty freaky to see someone you recognize on TV.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:47:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2004 5:47:51 PM EST by KA3B]
Don't forget about dancing with men too....
And that's not gay?


Originally Posted By LHD:
They just said transvestite, and having sex with men....

Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:47:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By corwin1968:
Everything I've read about Billy indicates that he was a regular Casanova, especially with the little Latinas.

I recently noticed that a guy I went to high school with is a frequent commentator on Wild West Tech. Didn't know him but it's pretty freaky to see someone you recognize on TV.



That be Phil Spangler ?
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:49:41 PM EST
...!
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:56:43 PM EST
Imagine the astonishment an M2 with a full belt of tracers would have created back then.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:59:16 PM EST
Of course! It all makes sense! He was taking out the aggression a repressive society heaped on him by slaughtering innocents.

If we were not so judgemental and allowed him to marry the man of his dreams, he would have been a happy productive model citizen.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 6:01:00 PM EST
According to the show Billy would have been more astonished with battery operated dildos...


Originally Posted By LHD:
Imagine the astonishment an M2 with a full belt of tracers would have created back then.

Link Posted: 8/17/2004 6:01:02 PM EST
Dont know about Billy the Kid...but I DID see on a documentary that Clyde Barrow (ala "Bonnie and Clyde") was Bi sexual.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 6:31:49 PM EST
Gives new meaning to the term "shot in the back," eh?

-J
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 6:36:14 PM EST
Alexander the Great was, and we all know what was in J. Edgars closet... I'm not for revisionist history, but neither am I for romanticized history. There is one history, and often it isn't what you have learned... 'Remember the Maine'...
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 6:41:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
I think sometimes they just like pairing our greatest legends with what we don't like.


Maybe because our "legends" are just that..legends..and the real person behind the legend is finally being shown.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 6:46:56 PM EST
I didnt see the story but come on. In WWll in german prison camps men put on shows dressed as women and danced with each other.
In the old west there wasnt too many women around either. That doesnt make you gay.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 6:55:07 PM EST
Of course if you watch DEADWOOD you would think everybody was a C##kSUCKER
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 7:04:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Of course if you watch DEADWOOD you would think everybody was a C##kSUCKER



Mom was at my place the other day watching some inane older sitcom & one of the actors looked & sounded vaguely familiar. Finally realized it was the guy who plays Al Swearingen <sp?> minus the 'stache & a few years younger. Mom laughed & agreed that when I said we'd have recognized him right off if he had said the magic word.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 7:14:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By madmedic:
Dont know about Billy the Kid...but I DID see on a documentary that Clyde Barrow (ala "Bonnie and Clyde") was Bi sexual.



My favorite quote in this situation?

"Dude, you either suck dick or you don't......"

Don't remember where I first heard that, but it still makes me laugh. Was it the Diceman? I think there's also a Bloodhound Gang song, but it's late and I'm tired.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 7:16:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
Alexander the Great was,


And this is KNOWN how?



and we all know what was in J. Edgars closet...


We do? Any of us ever looked in his closet? Hell he died before I was a pre-teen so I never had the opportunity.

I do that an ALLEGATION was made with ZERO evidence by a enemy of J. Edgar....



I'm not for revisionist history,


Doesn't sound like it to me. Sounds like you'll fall for any story providing it contradicts 'official history'.

Demand solid evidence - don't fall for it just because it fits your political world view.

BTW I'll agree not all that is taught in the history books is 'correct'. Learned some interesting things about George Washington this weekend from (basically a federal park ranger saying the info presented at that historical site was 250 year old propaganda from the French-Indian war). He presented the other viewpoint and evidence to support his version of the story. IMHO it took away the 'pefect man' image of G.W. and made him a much more human person (didn't detract from my admiration for the man),
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 7:44:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:
And this is KNOWN how?



It's widely accepted by historians that Alexanders best friend since childhood, Hephaestion, was also his lover. It's not like Alexanders life wasn't documented.

To anyone who knows ancient history, the fact that homo or bisexuality was common and accepted is well known. Not just to the Greeks either. It was common with Romans, Celts, Persians & lots of others. Lets not forget the Spartans or the Sacred band of Thebes either.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:05:40 PM EST
Notice that none of those homo empires/civiliations are no longer around.
That's what happens when the butt dart games start and become accepted....


Originally Posted By Sumo2000:
It's widely accepted by historians that Alexanders best friend since childhood, Hephaestion, was also his lover. It's not like Alexanders life wasn't documented.
To anyone who knows ancient history, the fact that homo or bisexuality was common and accepted is well known. Not just to the Greeks either. It was common with Romans, Celts, Persians & lots of others. Lets not forget the Spartans or the Sacred band of Thebes either.

Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:11:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2004 8:20:11 PM EST by Sumo2000]

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Notice that none of those homo empires/civiliations are no longer around.
That's what happens when the butt dart games start and become accepted....



Wow, so if the Greek city states suppressed homosexuality then they would never have been conquered huh? I guess if a nation is completely straight then they will exist forever. Brilliant statement, I'm impressed.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:19:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By KA3B:
Notice that none of those homo empires/civiliations are no longer around.
That's what happens when the butt dart games start and become accepted....



That's a stretch KA3B.... The British Empire isn’t what it once was ether, the ottoman Turks are long gone too. Empires come and go with or without queers being accepted, did we cause the collapse of the Russian Empire as well? It just amazes me just how powerful you think we are
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:51:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By DOHC_Holiday:
Gives new meaning to the term "shot in the back," eh?

-J



Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:51:26 PM EST
Thank you!


Originally Posted By Sumo2000:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Notice that none of those homo empires/civiliations are no longer around.
That's what happens when the butt dart games start and become accepted....



Wow, so if the Greek city states suppressed homosexuality then they would never have been conquered huh? I guess if a nation is completely straight then they will exist forever. Brilliant statement, I'm impressed.

Link Posted: 8/17/2004 9:12:41 PM EST
Actually they were suggesting that Billy the Kid was a woman
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 11:00:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Thank you!


Originally Posted By Sumo2000:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Notice that none of those homo empires/civiliations are no longer around.
That's what happens when the butt dart games start and become accepted....



Wow, so if the Greek city states suppressed homosexuality then they would never have been conquered huh? I guess if a nation is completely straight then they will exist forever. Brilliant statement, I'm impressed.




Please tell me you don't actually believe that. Tell me you are smarter than that.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 12:20:51 AM EST
I also believe in the the tooth fairy, Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny.....


Originally Posted By Sumo2000:
Please tell me you don't actually believe that. Tell me you are smarter than that.

Link Posted: 8/18/2004 3:12:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Notice that none of those homo empires/civiliations are no longer around.
That's what happens when the butt dart games start and become accepted....


Originally Posted By Sumo2000:
It's widely accepted by historians that Alexanders best friend since childhood, Hephaestion, was also his lover. It's not like Alexanders life wasn't documented.
To anyone who knows ancient history, the fact that homo or bisexuality was common and accepted is well known. Not just to the Greeks either. It was common with Romans, Celts, Persians & lots of others. Lets not forget the Spartans or the Sacred band of Thebes either.




Link Posted: 8/18/2004 3:20:52 AM EST
What's always made the BS meter peg hard for me has been how, several hundred years after so & so
has died, all of a sudden, 'evidence has shown' that this person was gay. Etc, etc, etc.

Of course, anybody who takes the HC or other cable shows as gospel w/o doing their own research.........
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 3:33:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
Alexander the Great was,


And this is KNOWN how?



oral history!
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 3:34:23 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 3:38:17 AM EST
I DON'T LIKE SAUSAGE PIE!
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 3:55:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

And this is KNOWN how?

Sumo2000 provided the same information I would here... He was assumed to be gay because of his behavior.



We do? Any of us ever looked in his closet? Hell he died before I was a pre-teen so I never had the opportunity.

I do that an ALLEGATION was made with ZERO evidence by a enemy of J. Edgar....



If I'm wrong here I'll cop to it, but circumstantial evidence is strong... You are wrong to believe that there was one allegation. It was long rumored to be true, in the same way that McGreevy was pre admission. I understand that McGreevy's tendancies were well known in NJ political circles.




Doesn't sound like it to me. Sounds like you'll fall for any story providing it contradicts 'official history'.

Demand solid evidence - don't fall for it just because it fits your political world view.

Hardly... I simply know enough about history and human behavior to know that history often clouded by propaganda, politics, pride, and 'to the victor go the spoils' behavior.

Link Posted: 8/18/2004 2:15:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/18/2004 2:17:04 PM EST by Kacer]

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Notice that none of those homo empires/civiliations are no longer around.
That's what happens when the butt dart games start and become accepted....



Honey, NO "empire/civilization" regardless of "acceptance" or "persecution" of queers has survived all that long... the The Byzantine Empire, the survivor of the Roman empire, flourished into
the oldest and longest lasting empire in our history. Seriously, I doubt we queers have THAT sort of "power" to "topple" empires/civilizations by our mere existance in them....

There had been earlier Roman legislation against homosexual acts. There was a shadowy Lex Scantinia supposedly passed in the early Republic against homosexual activity, but it seems to have had little effect. Certainly in the late Republic/early Empire the law was not applied, and social attitudes did not condemn homosexual sex (although "passive" sexual roles for men were despised). A tax was indeed levied on homosexual prostitutes. In the later Imperial period legal commentators enlarged the Lex Julia de adulteris (originally of c.17BCE) to include first offenses against boys and then, possibly, all male homosexual practices.

And yet... they fell.... huh... maybe it's the persecution of queers that "topples" civilizations??? ;) Nah... I STILL don't think little ol' us have THAT sort of power ;)
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 2:18:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 2:19:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By madmedic:
Dont know about Billy the Kid...but I DID see on a documentary that Clyde Barrow (ala "Bonnie and Clyde") was Bi sexual.



No. He was a little guy, and was once raped in prison. But he wasn't "bi".
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 2:23:36 PM EST
I watched a HC episode about Wyatt Earp a few days ago and they pretty much went out of their way to paint him as far more bad than good.

I've read several books about Earp and he sure as hell wasn't an angel but I've never seen anyone do a job on him like the HC did.

Is there a "conspiracy" in the media to debunk and disclaim legends that America has admired as part of it's history?
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 2:26:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 2:30:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
Alexander the Great was, and we all know what was in J. Edgars closet...



J Edgar Hoover isn't know to have had any sexual relationships with women, but he isn't known to have had any with men, either. The claim that he was a transvestite is based upon no evidence whatsoever . . . it was just a smear job.

Alexander, on the other hand . . .
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 2:35:16 PM EST
We all tend to forget about the alternative sexualities and their common appearance in Western civilization.

Romans, Greeks (boy oh boy did they like boys), and, for a more modern setting, 17th-19th century France. The French "ideal" of the time was for women to have the appearance of a pre-pube boy.


So, I don't find it any surprise when certain historic individuals turn out to be batting for a different team. Don't bother me none.

- BUCC_Guy
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 3:09:36 PM EST
You must have missed my OTHER post.....


Originally Posted By Kacer:
Honey, NO "empire/civilization" regardless of "acceptance" or "persecution" of queers has survived all that long... the The Byzantine Empire, the survivor of the Roman empire, flourished into
the oldest and longest lasting empire in our history. Seriously, I doubt we queers have THAT sort of "power" to "topple" empires/civilizations by our mere existance in them....

There had been earlier Roman legislation against homosexual acts. There was a shadowy Lex Scantinia supposedly passed in the early Republic against homosexual activity, but it seems to have had little effect. Certainly in the late Republic/early Empire the law was not applied, and social attitudes did not condemn homosexual sex (although "passive" sexual roles for men were despised). A tax was indeed levied on homosexual prostitutes. In the later Imperial period legal commentators enlarged the Lex Julia de adulteris (originally of c.17BCE) to include first offenses against boys and then, possibly, all male homosexual practices.

And yet... they fell.... huh... maybe it's the persecution of queers that "topples" civilizations??? ;) Nah... I STILL don't think little ol' us have THAT sort of power ;)

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