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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 11/28/2001 7:47:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/31/2001 3:05:05 PM EST by CassidyGT]
Here is the story: Yesterday around 3:30pm the wife with the two kids (5 & 2 yrs old) in the back pulls up to the mailbox in the minivan in our suburban community just south of Baltimore, MD. She opens the door to exit. Suddenly she sees a guy charging up the street from the rear of the van. Before she could react the guy is trying to force his way into the front seat. The wife, who is 8 mos. pregnant, violently resists and begins shout NO! at the top of her lungs. She proceeds to punch and push at the guy with all her strength. After a brief struggle she manages to force him back enough to shut the door. She then hit the gas and roars away. She immediately calls 911 from the cell phone. At this time she is afraid to go back home so the police tell her to pull over and they would be there momentarily. She waits for one hour. No show by the police. She calls her sister and she comes and gets her with the big Doberman in tow for added protection. They go home. She calls me and by the time I get home - 45 mins later, the police still have not called or responded in any way. After I ascertain that she the boys are OK physically, I call the police, pretty ticked off by now. The police tell me that everything is OK and it is just a mental patient who escaped from group home 'in our area'. They seemed completely unconcerned and felt that this was 'no big deal'. I think it IS a big deal. First Big Deal - Wife was attacked. Second Big Deal - No police response after perp apprehended. Third Big Deal - Just where is this 'home', who the hell lives there, and how did some deranged guy escape to attack my wife. Thank God she fought him off and he didn't get to the kids. All this is Maryland - a state where she would get 5 years in jail for trying to protect her family from harm by carrying a handgun! Damn the MD politicians to hell! Damn tham all!! They can never again tell me that incidents like this don't happen in 'nice' communities.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:52:48 AM EST
Thank God that your wife and your kids are safe. I can not even begin to comprend how angry and violated you must feel. Your wife did the right thing. I can't believe that she could fight the mental paitent off. Have you thought about filing a erport with the local police, and or the local media. Mental homes are always foddder for the news. Especially ones where paitents can escape.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:58:03 AM EST
Glad to know she is ok. Keep checking in with her just to make sure she dosen't have any lingering fears over this. Sounds like she did good! I would get on a warpath to figure out where this home is, it is public information especially in light of the attack and obvious public safety concern. You guys will be in our prayers.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:58:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 7:59:13 AM EST
I'm glad she's okay. Never mess with a mom when she's around her young! Seriously, I'm glad she didn't freeze up. Kudos to her. Anyway, shit like that is why Maryland is high on my list of states I really hate.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 8:02:35 AM EST
If the police are unwilling to do anything about it, contact the media! They would love to jump on a story like that!!!
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 8:08:41 AM EST
Thank God she's alright. Make sure she knows that when it comes down to "Obey the law" or"Defend your life" she shouldnt hesitate to pull that trigger. I'd rather let the lawyer handle the outcome than the undertaker. She must be one tough lady.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 8:11:11 AM EST
You are completely justified in being pissed off in all three "Big Deal" areas. Your wife rocks. She has the proper mental attitude to defend herself and your kids, and that is the part that is most difficult to inculcate in someone who doesn't have any experience or training. Please give her our regards. [beer]
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 8:11:41 AM EST
Same as the others here, glad to hear everybody in your family is ok. Have the doctor look at your wife, she is 8 months pregnant, make sure she and the baby are ok. Also, contact the police and the home and see why they thought it was ok. If they get pissy, get right back in their face with the news. Take care
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 8:17:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/28/2001 8:10:08 AM EST by stipilot]
CassidyGT, glad to hear your family is safe. Maybe Chairman Glendening can exploit the event to pass another gun control law.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 8:32:19 AM EST
Thanks for the kind words guys. I just got off the phone with the police and they said we could file a report up to 364 days after an assault. Now I am trying to get the wife to file the report so I have some documentation in hand as I try to find out more about this 'home' and why the police failed to contact my wife after the incident. Thie wife, however, is still abit frightened and doesn't really want to go through the hassle. I am urging her to file though. I'll keep you posted.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 8:33:14 AM EST
Holy St! I am really glad to hear your wife and kids are okay...and shudder to thing what could have happened. I'm not normally the type who thinks that our sue happy society is a good thing. However, if I were you, I'd get a lawyer. Sue everyone involved...most especially the "group home". This man is obviously a threat to the safety of the public and someone is neglegent here. I'm also not the type who generally slams the police. I know they have a tough and thankless job. But, what the hell! They should have been right there after your wife called...like they said they would be. They should have escorted your wife home and even called an ambulance just to make sure. Also, insist that the police press charges against the man who perpetrated this crime.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 8:58:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 9:36:03 AM EST
CassidyGT Very sorry about the attack on your wife. Thank God she is OK. Now the hard part starts for you. Agency that controls said nutcake should be sued! Yes sued, nutcake was under their care custody and control and they evidently didn't exerecise due control in this case. It would do you well to attend the next city council meeting and ask about liscening of said facility and police response. City council meetings tend to get action. Fear filled members don't want lawsuits. I would retain a lawyer in this instance as it is very disturbing. I would bring up that your city has strict anti carry laws and ask how one is to defend oneself if pregnant and with kids in tow? My prayers are with you and child soon to come. Blessings!
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 9:42:44 AM EST
Glad she and the younguns are okay, and what a gal! Sounds like she did the right thing!! Maryland huh? Another "will never move there, regardless of the job offer" state on my list. Again, thank goodness all are well.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 10:02:44 AM EST
Glad she and the kids are ok, what a frightening story. That police department must be filled with affirmative action cops. They all should be ashamed and someone's ass should be on the line for that kind of response. I hope the anti's that read this account, now better understand how easy it is to be killed by someone who is insane or just criminal. These characters wander Americas streets every second the day, and the families of these types want them protected over the safety and well being of their victims. I say, piss on em, my family comes first. Someone at that police station needs a good ass-beating.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 10:10:03 AM EST
Glad to hear your wife iand kids are ok. Have her go to the doc and get checked out, retain an atty, sue the "group home", get her to file the report with the police - if for no other reason than to send a message to the home and the cops that since you aren't allowed to defend yourself, they need to be more pro-active. Once you find out where this home is, I'm sure that with the appropriate media exposure, you could get a group of concerned citizens to picket and get even more exposure. Just be sure that when they interview you, you say something about how the police never showed up, and how it would be nice if you knew she had some way to defend herself. But once again, I'm glad to hear that she and the kids are safe.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 10:56:19 AM EST
I'm glad to hear that your wife and kids are ok. If you are considering a lawsuit keep in mind that it will be very difficult to successfuly sue the PD. They have a responsibility to the public at large, and not to any individual. That means that they do not have to respond to your wife's 911 call. A case we looked at in one of my criminal justice class is a good example of this. In Tacoma a few years ago a couple were stuck in traffic on the Narrows Bridge when they were robbed by the people in the car in front of them. They called the cops and were told that help was on the way, but two hours later they had not shown up (traffic was not moving on the bridge). They never actually responded to the call. The couple sued the department, but on the reason stated above. The decision was overturned on appeal because the operator said help was on the way, creating resonable expectation for a response (like what the operator said to your wife, but reasonable expectation can be hard to prove as it is subjective). If you are going to sue, it would probably be best to focus on the home. Kyle
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 11:15:39 AM EST
I am really glad to hear that your family is safe. I 100% agree on following up with the comments made by [b]jhasz[/b]. Tyler
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 11:41:59 AM EST
Cassidy - glad to hear that your wife & kids are OK. In order to get the report done, maybe you could "interview" your wife & put it on paper yourself now, while the details are still fresh in her mind. Then you could review it tomorrow, after she has had some time to collect herself, & file it with the authorities. I saw today, on this website, that some police now follow the theory that they have no liability &/or duty to protect us. We are living in an era of "no harm, no foul" policing rather than actual law enforcement. Best of luck to you & yours.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 11:49:14 AM EST
Caasidy, Glad to hear the family is OK. Your wife did what many people can't do, and she did it right. Please move down to VA and leave that communist state behind. That local PD should be ashamed of themselves. What's this world comming too????
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 11:55:58 AM EST
Don't blame politicians they only do thier job representing the populace. It's the populace that is the problem.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 12:55:39 PM EST
If that was my wife, there would be one less mental patient around. My wife carries a Sig .40 and is not afraid to use it.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 1:08:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By David_Hineline: Don't blame politicians they only do thier job representing the populace. It's the populace that is the problem.
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That just shows how little you know about Maryland. The politicians are elected by the residents of Baltimore City (need I say more?). I've said here time and time again that Maryland police are some of the worst in the country. Now if you were reporting that someone was smoking in their workplace, they would have had a SWAT team there in seconds. Cassidy, you might want to seriously consider moving up here to free Pennsylvania, or at LEAST away from Baltimore. I work in B-more and I feel glad to get home each and every day.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 1:11:31 PM EST
This is a good case of you're stuck between a rock and hard spot. You can't defend yourself because no CCW, and the police are not obligated to defend you, so where does this leave you? This was originally posted titled "Judge Throws Out Columbine Lawsuits" See link for complete story[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=73443[/url] An attorney for the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department argued that officers should not be held liable for their actions before or after the attack. They had argued that they have [b]"no legal obligation" to provide aid and "no duty" to investigate or prevent crimes[/b]"," Channel2000 affiliate The Denver Channel reported. Authorities said that they were shielded from liability by the state governmental immunity law
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 1:29:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 4:21:42 PM EST
Troy - That was a serious post that got me really thinking. I had forgotten about the incident that you mentioned. I hadn't thought of it in quite those terms - a second chance we have been given. A move to a free state could perhaps be the best thing for us. Nothing we have here is worth the lives of my wife and children.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 4:29:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By CassidyGT: Troy - That was a serious post that got me really thinking. I had forgotten about the incident that you mentioned. I hadn't thought of it in quite those terms - a second chance we have been given. A move to a free state could perhaps be the best thing for us. Nothing we have here is worth the lives of my wife and children.
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There you go man.
Link Posted: 11/28/2001 5:03:16 PM EST
I am glad that your family is OK. Her response may have averted a tragedy. You are fortunate - a WAKE UP CALL has been received LOUD AND CLEAR!! Time to move; big cities with high crime rates are not for decent citizens! Bad enough the police chose not to respond, worse that they LIED ABOUT IT, saying they would come and never did! Probably too busy eating donuts or writing tax bills, er I mean traffic tickets. Next time have her call back and say she shot the creep - bet they would be there in 2 min flat. (Not really - they would then make time to lock her up for false report.) If she fails to file charges then she becomes part of the problem. Those type reports get little action but can be used to apply pressure to the headcase-warehouse if enough of them accumulate.
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 5:12:32 AM EST
Your wife needs a gun!
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 5:26:59 AM EST
Along with the Columbine decision, there is this gem from a Federal appeals court ruling on a lawsuit of a police department for failing to come to the aid of a woman who was then killed by her abusive ex-husband: “. . . a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen.” --Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App.181)
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 6:09:52 AM EST
"no legal obligation" to provide aid "no duty" to investigate or prevent crimes" Um, maybe this is a stupid question, but if the police have no obligation to invetigate crimes, provide aid, and protect the citizenry then why don't we just abolish police departments across the nation and save ourselves a ton of cash? I've known about this type of thing for a few years now. I was totally surprised. I'm sure that the vast majority of Americans would be too...if only they knew...
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 7:23:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By soylentgreen: "no legal obligation" to provide aid "no duty" to investigate or prevent crimes" Um, maybe this is a stupid question, but if the police have no obligation to invetigate crimes, provide aid, and protect the citizenry then why don't we just abolish police departments across the nation and save ourselves a ton of cash? I've known about this type of thing for a few years now. I was totally surprised. I'm sure that the vast majority of Americans would be too...if only they knew...
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I think Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch summed it up best when he had a body bag on the ground, stood over it and said [b]"no one cares!!!" [/b] No one is responsible for what happens to you. The police don't need to come and help. In fact they hate responding home invasion calls. If they do respond and the shit has really hit the fan like columbine they are required to wait for backup to arrive. Thank God that firemen don't need to wait an hour to pull someone out of a burning building. After the crime is over the police have no responsibility to investigate a crime. They don't spend the time on a case the way the cops on the tv detective shows do. If someone close to you is a victim hire a good private investigator to figure out what really happened. If the police do manage to arrest the perp there are many ways that he can escape responsibility, i.e. early parole. We live in a dangerous world. Be safe, protect yourself the best you can with what you have and never give in. ______________________________________ [red] Domari Nolo; I will not be subjugated [/red]
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 7:39:51 AM EST
At a minimum I would call the media and let them know that having your pregnant wife attacked by an insane man is "no big deal" to the local police department. -SS
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 8:42:04 AM EST
File a formal complaint with the PD & call the local news. Tell them your pregnant wife & 2 kids where attacked & the PD doesn't care! The fools take away your right to defend yourself & then smugly dissappear. Where are all the "do it for the children" namby pambys now!
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 1:21:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2002 5:47:38 AM EST by Paul]
Update: The police apologized profusely and called several times to make sure 'everything was alright' with the wife. That is real nice, but I think there is a serious case of CYA going on here. I wrote to the local media and my State legiscritters. See below: I am sure no one will call me either way: I will make this a brief note as I am sure you are all very busy passing new laws to protect us. My wife was attacked in late November. As she was getting out of our van to get the mail right near our Thunderhill home, a man ran up and tried to force his way into the van. Our two children were in the back seat in their car seats (age 2 and 5) and witnessed the event. My wife, who is 8 months pregnant, began fighting the man off using her fists. After a brief struggle, the man slipped and my wife managed to get the door closed and drive away. Thank God she prevented the man from getting access to our car and our children, we have all heard the tragic stories of car-jackings. Needless to say she was terrified and immediately called the police on her cell phone. Since she was afraid to go back home, she was told to pull over and the police would be there right away. My wife pulled over and waited for over an hour and NO ONE SHOWED UP!!. She called her sister who brought her Doberman with her and they went back home. By the time I got home an hour after that, the police STILL HAD NOT CALLED OR SHOWED UP!! The case number is 01-107XXX in Howard County Maryland. As it turns out the man has a 'mental problem', as we were told by the police, and had escaped from a group home in our neighborhood. My problem with this situation is this: In a State where its citizens are not allowed to defend and protect themselves due to severely restrictive gun laws -- the POLICE FAILED TO SHOW UP!!! If the police are unwilling or unable to protect us, as was shown in my wife's case, why is it that we are not able to defend ourselves from attack? Why is it that 35 other States in the country allow their citizens to defend themselves through the issuance of Concealed Carry Permits, and Maryland will not? Why is that my wife now has to make a choice as to whether to carry a firearm in her car to protect our family and risk spending 5 years in jail if caught, or being defenseless in the face of crime, and/or roving mentally deranged persons? I asked my wife how she would have felt if she had had her handgun with her at the time of the incident. She told me that the incident happened too fast for her to have accessed any firearm. However, she said that as she was fighting off the attack, she thought to herself, "What if this guy gets to our children?" She told me that she would have felt alot better if she had had a firearm available to her if the situation had gotten out of control and the man was able to enter the car and began to threaten the lives of our children in any way. [changed case number to protect your privacy - Paul]
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 1:22:43 PM EST
continued: It is painfully obvious to me that the police CANNOT protect us - assuming they even show up. This being the case, we as citizens, are on our own and I am outraged that the legislature of this State thinks so poorly of people such as my wife, that you will consistently vote against allowing us to carry the tools to defend ourselves and our families. I urge you to imagine your spouse, loved one and children in the position my wife was in. Fighting to protect her children from harm without the proper tools to do so. In short, she and my children were lucky. I consider this incident a wake up call and I will do my level best to change the way this State treats its citizens in regard to self-defense.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 2:55:37 PM EST
You gotta helluva woman there CassidyGT. Glad she's OK. There are times when lawyers can justify their existences.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 3:08:56 PM EST
Cassidy, I am glad your gal is okay. You're lucky in more ways than one. Being in liberal land Maryland, you're lucky the media doesn't come down on your WIFE because she "was mean to a 'disabled' person." Sadly, it could happen. Tell her I said, "Good girl!" CMOS
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 4:03:15 PM EST
AS a FORMER Marylander: Get the F(_)CK OUT NOW. I'm glad to hear your wife and kids made it out OK (trust me the REAL wounds are now the hidden ones). Now, you are obliged to find a FREE state to move your family to...there is a really nice one just north of you where I'm originally from. There's also another good one just south of you, where I now reside. Pick one.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 4:18:28 PM EST
Cassidy - Give your wife a big "Well Done" from me (in whatever form you wish!) She has demonstrated a combat mindset, and will likely be receptive to whatever advanced self-defence and survival training she may be offered. Hardcase - Man, I hate to tell ya this, but you should bear in mind that most of the basics of American Law are based upon the old English COmmon Law, dating back to the Assize of Arms (late 1200's, IIRC.) For the last 600 years (220 some-odd here) the police forces of the State have no responsibility to the protection of the individual, and failure to do so thru action or inaction is not punishable by any means. The police are an arm of the government service, in existence to enforce the decisions of the State (i. e. the courts) THAT IS REALLY ALL. Respective to crimes, the police are usually "historians" - taking down information after the fact and investigating as time allows. Any directed action in favour of a member of the public is taken strictlly in the intereste of the government or is an action of politicking - that is it. I wish I had better news for you. "No harm, no foul" is really the legal environment under which the variousl PD's operate... This does not mean that there are really some cops out there who live by "To serve and protect," but they are becoming rarer all the time! FFZ
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 4:22:26 PM EST
Would this be Montgomery County, by chance? Sounds like it.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 4:33:43 PM EST
Would this be Montgomery County, by chance? Sounds like it. Wouldn't it be interesting if it was the PD general policy to not respond to situations involving people escaped from group homes? That would knock the wind out of any argument about their having no responsibility to protect a certain person (that is, if they just didn't protect the populace at all in these situations).
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 4:33:44 PM EST
Cassidy - Words cannot express the anger I feel at your situation. I often wonder about you, my brothers, up in Maryland. I wonder how you guys tolerate the contradictory nature of your gov't. Then I realize mine is probably no better. Unfortunately, I think Hineline hit it right on the head - your representatives are representing the people. The people just happen to be sheep up there. Northern Virginia is not different (so don't think I'm coming down on you). You would do well to remove yourself from that situation, as it will only get worse, though. My wife is also pregnant and hauling my daughter around town, and I can just imagine what would happen here if that happened to her. I'm afraid she would be forced to make the difficult decision to use her Glock .45 rather than her fists as your wife did. In some ways, I wonder who will have the worst trauma. I know she wouldn't be at the guy's mercy, though. I hope you both (and your children) can recover and learn from your situation. Your letter was great, but we both know it falls upon deaf ears. We'll always be glad to have you in Virginia if you decide to move. I understand your desire to stay put and stay in your home. Best of luck. Black Fox
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 5:16:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2002 5:16:49 AM EST by Ulysse_Nardin_1846]
FCK all those who seek to deprive us citizens from the means of protecting ourselves. My friend's house was burglarized and his GF was home alone and saw the creeps. Dude jammed home as fast as he could. Next thing he did was ask to borrow a piece just in case they came back. I let him borrow a Beretta 3032. Thank GOD your family is safe. That crazy mental bastard needs a labotomy.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 7:00:23 AM EST
Your state may have the same program. In California, the state will pay homeowners to house mental patients and minor crime offenders as a half-way house. It doesn't require any zoning allowances. Anybody can apply to help pay the mortgage or rent. If this is the case for you, you need to contact your city or county supervisor and complain. Ask them to have their permit revoked. We've learned here that one accident is enough and waiting for a string of accidents is bad.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 7:41:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By Ulysse_Nardin_1846: FCK all those who seek to deprive us citizens from the means of protecting ourselves. My friend's house was burglarized and his GF was home alone and saw the creeps. Dude jammed home as fast as he could. Next thing he did was ask to borrow a piece just in case they came back. I let him borrow a Beretta 3032. Thank GOD your family is safe. That crazy mental bastard needs a labotomy.
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000 Buckshot should do the trick.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 8:53:10 AM EST
FreeFireZone - An interesting perspective, however, it begs the question: Why have a police force? Why not just hire $6/hr. clerks to write up the "police reports?" Further, think of the money the taxpayers could save by not actually enforcing any laws. Think of the money that we could save by not having a legislative body or court system. The downside, of course, is that the lawyers would starve. It appears that we actually are in an unrecognized state of anarchy, an admittedly benign anarchy, but anarchy nonetheless. History is an interesting thing. A couple of clichés come to mind: 1. "We've always done it that way," and 2. "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it." If Western society is the most advanced & civilized, doesn't common sense dictate that a police force perform common sense police functions. It's important to us individually and as a society that even police forces have duties and responsibilities. I've seen far too many examples on this board of the same old apologists making the same old apologies for poor law enforcement.
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