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Posted: 1/1/2016 9:27:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2016 7:47:47 PM EDT by Goodn]
My 2000 mustang with a Cobra 4.6 has been having some weird issues with a random misfire.  

So we replaced some coils that seemed to be sparking weak,  that didn't fix the issue.  Upon further inspection,  the coils would spark good three or four times at start up and then slowly fade to almost nothing on random cylinders.  

This is where is gets a little more complicated.  The car has a megasquirt 3 ecm and a set of Quadspark coil amplifiers.  Testing the quad sparks with a oscilloscope showed the coils weren't dropping voltage to negative (not discharging properly).  testing at the mega squirt was all good.  This was making us curious,  so we tried a Coyote coil,  and it had insane spark and the o-scope showed proper readings,  but they will not fit in the valve cover housing.

It seems that the quad spark amplifiers are not capable of firing the stock mod motor coils properly.  The scope shows the amplifiers voltage limiting the output to the coils which is weird,  because they are capable of 30 amps.

So,  time for a change.  With a little modification the ls2 coils fit in the covers.  

This requires removing the quadspark amplifiers and some rewiring of the coil loom.  Then the boots and springs are removed from the stock ford coils and installed onto the ls coils and then they are dropped in place.  Unfortunately the stock coil covers wont fit over them anymore,  so brackets had to be fabbed to hold them in place.  

I'm crossing my fingers on this.  I believe this will remedy the issue.  Fingers crossed.  I will update.  



Some pics....

I used some spare gusset laying around and rough cut it with a plasma cutter and finished it with a bench grinder and file.  Four of these had to be made.



Test fitting the coils and brackets...



installed coils,  spacers,  and brackets.  Wiring loom is done as of tonight,  no pics yet.  I will have to remove the spark amps and rewire the spark loom to the computer tomorrow.  



Wish me luck!  

Coils are in and wired!  No more burble,  no more misfires. Noticeable power gain!
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 9:42:21 PM EDT
Good luck
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 9:51:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2016 9:53:58 PM EDT by Dustrod]
Adjust the points gap
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 9:55:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By deich:
Good luck
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Thank you.

I'm sure it will work,  ls coils work on everything,  and they work well.  


I guess my logic is,  the ls coils are self contained,  they have built in spark signal amps.  And since my external signal amps seem to be incompatible with the mod motor coils then I will kill two birds with one stone.  remove both the stock coils and the external spark signal amps from the equation.
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 9:58:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Dustrod:
Adjust the points gap
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What points?  

 While it should not be an issue in the first place.  I tried plug gap.  Even with the adjustable spark tester there was no love.
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 10:06:32 PM EDT
Could those metal bracket things you fabbed be causing some sort of signal interruption to the coil packs?
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 10:18:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2016 10:19:00 PM EDT by Goodn]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gulftanker:
Could those metal bracket things you fabbed be causing some sort of signal interruption to the coil packs?
View Quote



Those are on the LS coils,  With the stock Ford setup there was a metal cover that held the stock coils in place,  so that would never have been an issue.  

I don't foresee any issue with the new brackets,  the original LS setup has a ground tab going from the sinks to the metal rack.  The LS coils have a dedicated ground wire and the valve covers are electrically isolated from the block.  so in theory the LS coils will work great.  I'm hoping they will in reality too.  
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 10:25:05 PM EDT
Yeah, that should work. Modular motor ignitions are nothing but trouble once you toss the stock ecu in the dumpster where it belongs. As you have discovered, tossing the ignition system in there too is the best solution.
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 10:33:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2016 10:34:37 PM EDT by Goodn]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mossberg:
Yeah, that should work. Modular motor ignitions are nothing but trouble once you toss the stock ecu in the dumpster where it belongs. As you have discovered, tossing the ignition system in there too is the best solution.
View Quote



The stock ECU is in the car still.  However the only things it controls are the anti theft system,  keyless entry,  and dashboard/cluster.  I have been very tempted to take it to the Ford dealer and ask them why my check engine light is on. (CEL light is removed from cluster)  

The engine is managed by the MS3.

I'd bet that stock ecu is confused as fuck.  Codes galore!  
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 10:41:39 PM EDT
Topic derailment question: Obviously from your other threads you like the MS3. Would you recommend it across the board? Specifically to control a hodge-podge TBI setup on an old Ford I-6?
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 10:43:49 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Goodn:



The stock ECU is in the car still.  However the only things it controls are the anti theft system,  keyless entry,  and dashboard/cluster.  I have been very tempted to take it to the Ford dealer and ask them why my check engine light is on. (CEL light is removed from cluster)  

The engine is managed by the MS3.

I'd bet that stock ecu is confused as fuck.  Codes galore!  
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Goodn:
Originally Posted By Mossberg:
Yeah, that should work. Modular motor ignitions are nothing but trouble once you toss the stock ecu in the dumpster where it belongs. As you have discovered, tossing the ignition system in there too is the best solution.



The stock ECU is in the car still.  However the only things it controls are the anti theft system,  keyless entry,  and dashboard/cluster.  I have been very tempted to take it to the Ford dealer and ask them why my check engine light is on. (CEL light is removed from cluster)  

The engine is managed by the MS3.

I'd bet that stock ecu is confused as fuck.  Codes galore!  


Heh, go ahead and toss the dash in the garbage too! Get a fancy digital dash, you can sell any gauges you may have added to recoup cost. You can just wire the door locks and theft deterrent stuff like a normal car (with an alarm if you want).
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 10:45:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mossberg:


Heh, go ahead and toss the dash in the garbage too! Get a fancy digital dash, you can sell any gauges you may have added to recoup cost. You can just wire the door locks and theft deterrent stuff like a normal car (with an alarm if you want).
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mossberg:
Originally Posted By Goodn:
Originally Posted By Mossberg:
Yeah, that should work. Modular motor ignitions are nothing but trouble once you toss the stock ecu in the dumpster where it belongs. As you have discovered, tossing the ignition system in there too is the best solution.



The stock ECU is in the car still.  However the only things it controls are the anti theft system,  keyless entry,  and dashboard/cluster.  I have been very tempted to take it to the Ford dealer and ask them why my check engine light is on. (CEL light is removed from cluster)  

The engine is managed by the MS3.

I'd bet that stock ecu is confused as fuck.  Codes galore!  


Heh, go ahead and toss the dash in the garbage too! Get a fancy digital dash, you can sell any gauges you may have added to recoup cost. You can just wire the door locks and theft deterrent stuff like a normal car (with an alarm if you want).


Digital dashboards are too damn expensive.  and ugly.  
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 10:49:26 PM EDT
The ignition stuff sounds like a pain in the ass. But I'm sure it will work well once you get it sorted out.

Even though it looks so much cleaner to do COPs, my coil packs are gonna stay on my 97 Cobra. I havent had any problems as of yet (but my car is basically stock)
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 10:54:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2016 11:00:53 PM EDT by Goodn]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xXNuggettXx:
Topic derailment question: Obviously from your other threads you like the MS3. Would you recommend it across the board? Specifically to control a hodge-podge TBI setup on an old Ford I-6?
View Quote




Done it.  It works well.  170CI,   IIRC.  ATV throttle body,  fabbed a two injector fuel log,  and I dont recall what size injectors?  30LB IIRC.  Aeromotive fuel regulator and a homemade FI fuel cell.  

I don't see any other simple way.  So yes,  I would.  

ETA:
Found my pics of it.


Link Posted: 1/1/2016 10:59:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Goodn:




Done it.  It works well.  170CI,   IIRC.  ATV throttle body,  fabbed a two injector fuel log,  and I dont recall what size injectors?  30LB IIRC.  Aeromotive fuel regulator and a homemade FI fuel cell.  

I don't see any other simple way.  So yes,  I would.  

https://youtu.be/G8EdkJahFdU https://youtu.be/VP0JIBDVrlY
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Goodn:
Originally Posted By xXNuggettXx:
Topic derailment question: Obviously from your other threads you like the MS3. Would you recommend it across the board? Specifically to control a hodge-podge TBI setup on an old Ford I-6?




Done it.  It works well.  170CI,   IIRC.  ATV throttle body,  fabbed a two injector fuel log,  and I dont recall what size injectors?  30LB IIRC.  Aeromotive fuel regulator and a homemade FI fuel cell.  

I don't see any other simple way.  So yes,  I would.  

https://youtu.be/G8EdkJahFdU https://youtu.be/VP0JIBDVrlY


Sweet. Thanks for the info. I'm looking at throwing a TBI setup and small turbo (4-6 psi) on a 223 I-6. Just because I'm bored.
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 10:59:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 11:00:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2016 11:00:34 PM EDT by LittlePony]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dustrod:
Adjust the points gap
View Quote


if only you could

Link Posted: 1/1/2016 11:05:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2016 11:05:49 PM EDT by Goodn]
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Originally Posted By TZLVredmist:
You got D-585's to drop down onto the plug???  Awesome!


Don't run your dwell time above 4MS on those, I have mine set at 3.5


Ryan
View Quote


Took the boot/extenders and contact springs out/off of the stock ford COP coils and then clamped down the top end of the contact spring so it will lock on to the LS coils wire socket nub.  Clip the spring in place and slide the boot/extender onto the LS coil and drop it into the Ford head.  
Very easy mod actually.  I can take pictures for you tomorrow if you like.

Thanks for the heads up on the dwell.
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 11:12:45 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By J_Wynn:
The ignition stuff sounds like a pain in the ass. But I'm sure it will work well once you get it sorted out.

Even though it looks so much cleaner to do COPs, my coil packs are gonna stay on my 97 Cobra. I havent had any problems as of yet (but my car is basically stock)
View Quote



I agree the stock COP is cleaner looking.  But I may see if I can mill a set of taller covers myself so I can still hide the coils.  As the LS coils are about a half inch taller without the coil control plug.  Which makes them taller.  One thing at a time.  

That car has come a LONG way from its lethargic 6 cyl auto days.  

This is just a little refining.
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 11:48:41 PM EDT
The fusion rockers on your turboencabulator probably need re-pannification or dis-carbonifying.
Link Posted: 1/1/2016 11:51:34 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By webtaz99:
The fusion rockers on your turboencabulator probably need re-pannification or dis-carbonifying.
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Oh!  How could I have missed that?  

Such an obvious thing too.  








Link Posted: 1/1/2016 11:52:23 PM EDT
I buy my cars from Japan
Link Posted: 1/2/2016 12:10:55 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By fr3d:
I buy my cars from Japan
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That's because you are boring.  
Link Posted: 1/2/2016 4:56:20 PM EDT
Success!  Pics and vid later.
Link Posted: 1/2/2016 8:03:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2016 8:06:34 PM EDT by Goodn]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TZLVredmist:
You got D-585's to drop down onto the plug???  Awesome!


Don't run your dwell time above 4MS on those, I have mine set at 3.5


Ryan
View Quote



Took some photos for you.  

Bottom left is the stock Ford coil.  The rest is the LS coil,  rack and sleeves. First you have to remove the coil from the rack,  once that's done you have to separate it from the sleeve.  


Pull the boot and spring from the stock coil.


Crimp the coil end of the spring like this.


Snap it in the LS coil like so...


Slide the boot on the LS coil.


Remove the tab from the sink.


Times eight.  




I then had to mill some spacers for the hold town bars I made yesterday.  Drop the coils in place and install the spacer,  plate and a longer bolt.  This all bolts to the stock coil cover bolt locations in the valve covers.


Wired and installed.


And a quick video!
Link Posted: 1/2/2016 9:08:34 PM EDT
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