$4,334.33 for burgers busts bank account

By BOB WILSON
Valley Press Staff Writer
PALMDALE - When George Beane went to his neighborhood Burger King on Tuesday afternoon, he got four burgers his way, all right, but at a super-sized cost.

In fact, the charge to his debit card for two $1 Whopper Jrs. and two $1 Rodeo cheeseburgers at the drive-up window at the 2606 East Palmdale Blvd. restaurant was $4,334.33 instead of the $4.33 it should have been.

Because the debit card was linked to Beane's checking account at Bank of America, the electronic charge "went through and left us penniless," Beane's wife, Pat, said Friday.

Their mortgage payment was due at the time, and her fear was that they not only would have no money to pay new bills, but the checks sent for their old ones would bounce, she said.

"We were thinking, 'No, not now!' " of the overcharge, Pat Beane said.

Terri Woody, manager of the oldest Burger King in the Antelope Valley, said the mistake was made by one of her best and most long-term employees. The order was placed at the restaurant's drive-through, so the cashier on duty put the card and the amount to be charged into the electronic reader, Woody said.

"What happened was, the cashier in the box who takes the cards and slides them was interchanging a headset with another person, and she didn't think she put (the amount to be charged) in," so she entered the digits 433 a second time, the manager said.

The cashier "realized it when she went to hand the receipt to him and she said, 'Oh, my God,' and apologized, but it was too late because it had already gone through," she said.

"This cashier has been with me for 20 years, and she's never had a mistake before. She was so upset," Woody said. "I felt really bad, too, and ultimately we gave them the food for free for putting them in that position."

"I just wanted to make sure they get their money back," so Woody called Burger King district manager Scott Ralston. With Ralston's assistance, and calls to Burger King's corporate offices, the money was returned to the account Friday morning.

The fact the bank needed the full three days to reverse an electronic charge process that took only a split second left the couple with no money other than what they had in their pockets, Pat Beane said.

Bank officials said they would reverse the charge only if a representative of Burger King came forward and confirmed the error, Beane said. Even when the error was confirmed, the bank said the funds were on a three-day hold and nothing could be done to release them, she said.

Bank of America supervisor Joel Solorio said that in most instances no correction is made until the bank confirms the transaction and error.

"There are two parts to a purchase," Solorio said. The first is when a card is swiped through a machine and the funds are confirmed to be in the account; the second is when the transaction is confirmed at midnight "and three days later, the money comes out of the account."

During those three days, the money is held "in authorization" so the account holder will not believe the money is still available, Solorio said. If an error is reported and confirmed, the funds can be returned to the user's account after the three-day authorization period, he said.

The process is intended to prevent bank customers from spending money that no longer is available in their accounts and to give the bank time to confirm the facts of any transaction before completing a transfer of funds, Solorio said.

For those three days, "those were the most expensive value burgers in history," Pat Beane said.

Surprize...you got a free supersize.

that sucks  

That's a big bucking bill.

It also sounds like they need a new bank. What if BK had pulled a scam and DIDN'T want to send a letter?

I had Hilton charge $1,300+ onto my credit card because someone basically assumed my identity at the hotel and ran the bill up. My bank put the money back in my account THE NEXT MORNING, NO QUESTIONS ASKED, and THEN went after the merchant. They fought like tigers to justify it, but after their proof was shown to be BS (the signature wasn't mine, not even CLOSE to mine, and I had proof I was out of state), the charges were dismissed permanently.

Quoted: It also sounds like they need a new bank. What if BK had pulled a scam and DIDN'T want to send a letter? I had Hilton charge $1,300+ onto my credit card because someone basically assumed my identity at the hotel and ran the bill up. My bank put the money back in my account THE NEXT MORNING, NO QUESTIONS ASKED, and THEN went after the merchant. They fought like tigers to justify it, but after their proof was shown to be BS (the signature wasn't mine, not even CLOSE to mine, and I had proof I was out of state), the charges were dismissed permanently.

+1


My Bank would of had theat fixed as soon as they cought it.
In Fact Im sure they would be calling me within hours of th echarge.

I take it you guys dont' remember the poster here that had a $2500 laptop charged to his debit card at a Walmart - which caused his checking account to bounce a bunch of checks


He got the charges reversed.


Walmart then got the charges reinstated.


He account went bust a 2nd time, and bounced another round of checks.


It's just too dangerous to have it linked to your checking account.    A CC charge that uses up your limit doesn't result in bounced checks.   A debit charge does

That's gotta hurt.

Using debit cards for a $4.33 purchase...............

Debit and credit cards shou;d be illegal to use a fast food place, movie theaters, kiosks, etc. The minumum purchase should be $50.00, below that pony up the cash.

Next, this was an unintetional "whoopsie", it can be done just as quickly as a deliberate.

BK Clerk rings up that 444.33 sale, on the card. Then voids the sale, and rings up the proper 4.33 sale, after the charge is credited. Takes $400 out of the cash drawer, and it all balances...........

Everytime you swipe your card, you are potentially giving your account info to a thief.

Quoted: Using debit cards for a $4.33 purchase............... Debit and credit cards shou;d be illegal to use a fast food place, movie theaters, kiosks, etc. The minumum purchase should be $50.00, below that pony up the cash.

That's crazy. CC's and DC's are easy to use. Offer more protection, particularly credit cards, than cash if something bad should happen, like losing your wallet or getting it stolen.

It's particularly helpful to those of use who live over a thousand miles away from their bank. I don't have to incur service charges at the ATM.

I will rethink using DCs now; however. Looks like using a CC and then paying it off is the safest option.

Never, ever use a debit card.

you're f****d when something goes wrong.

Always use a credit card.

The one thing that pisses me off is that they don't require signatures at the fast food joints.  That and they never ask to see my ID when I use my check card.

The signature strip on the back of both my cards says SEE ID.  Perhaps 2/10 people ask for ID.

i pay all the bills i can over the internet.

paid a credit card bill, was 173.00 more or less. somehow i entered 17300.00. i deal with a small local bank. i grew up with one of the officers... who calls me and says 'did you mean to do this 17000 transaction? to which I say no and he disallows the ach transaction. i call the credit card company and straigten it out..

i worked almost 13 years in financial credit card online company. started as a junior programmer when the company was a startup. when i left i had access and had worked on every single part of a very large system and had badsically unlimited 24X7 access to the systems. all major credit cards, 99% of all oil company cards (we did online stuff for all major gas companies), all regiional and national debit card processesors.

I WOULD NEVER USE A CHECK CARD TO PAY FOR ANYTHING.. EVER.. I WOULD NEVER GIVE A COMPANY OR ANY ENTITY THE RIGHT TO DEBIT MY CHECKING ACCOUNT AUTOMATICALLY.. EVER..

use credit cards. if you debit checking accounts via the internet.. make it a one time thing where you do it yourself.

one story amongst thousands.. theives obtain a portable ATM machine. put it in a mall parking lot on a friday afternoon. each user tries it gets 'network down try again later'. theives pick the atm up on sunday, download all the entered debit cards and pins, make several of each, hit all the accounts until all the accounts are locked.

depending on your bank, once money moves out of your checking account you are in for some hard knocks fighting them to fix it..

Quoted: Quoted: Using debit cards for a $4.33 purchase............... Debit and credit cards shou;d be illegal to use a fast food place, movie theaters, kiosks, etc. The minumum purchase should be $50.00, below that pony up the cash. That's crazy. CC's and DC's are easy to use. Offer more protection, particularly credit cards, than cash if something bad should happen, like losing your wallet or getting it stolen. It's particularly helpful to those of use who live over a thousand miles away from their bank. I don't have to incur service charges at the ATM. I will rethink using DCs now; however. Looks like using a CC and then paying it off is the safest option.

Maybe to you. I'm getting tired of standing behind people that get up to the movie snack bar, can't decide on Rasinets or Milk Duds for 30 seconds, then have to fish for thier card, for the $3 purchase, demand a reciept etc.....................

Seems to happen much less with people that have cash, and is FAR FAR worse with the people that are using checks for those $3 purchases.

Every concession stand should be run by "Soup Nazi" rules. When you are in line figure out what you want and have means of payment ready. If you are no ready when you get to the front of the line, you go back to the end of the line until you are ready.

Debit Cards, that are not also CC's, have only as much protection as your bank decides to give you. Your bank may decide to offer 100% reimbursement, or 0%. That's fun when the  Debit Card is connected to ALL your accounts, checking, savings, and automatic overdraft loans.  

Credit Cards are REQUIRED by federal law to reimburse for fraud in most cases.

I'm not worried because my bank is excellent to deal with. I had someone run up a charge on my account, I caught it and went to the bank. They refunded the money, reimbursed me for the overdraft fees from the bounced checks then proceeded with the investigation into it.

Yes, I could end up getting taken for alot of money, but I feel my bank is working for me so I'll take that chance.

I hope this is a testament to those who "poo poo" the use of credit cards.  That would be one of my worst nightmares.

I use and will continue to use my debit card for minor purchases.   Generally I use the credit card because it gets a higher % cash back, but use the debit card too.  I almost never have cash in my wallet, and my bank is USAA.  I am not in the least bit worried.

Don't people have limits on their debit cards? I have mine set up so that no more than $300 a day can be charged on it. It really helps prevent something like this from happening.

I got to witness something like this, only on a smaller scale.

The girl at the counter took the order, and the person paid with a credit card.  Lots of fast food joints for some reason only have one card swiper, so they have to key in the amount.  So, she keyed in ten bucks or whatever it was, and swiped the card.  Nothing happened.  So, she did the only reasonable thing do do in that situation.  Key in ten dollars again and swipe the card.  No luck still?  Maybe the third time wil work.  Or maybe the fourteenth.....   She did it 14 times before the manager got curious as to what she was doing for so long.  It sucks to wait for someone to key in 13 refunds.

Quoted: The one thing that pisses me off is that they don't require signatures at the fast food joints.  That and they never ask to see my ID when I use my check card. The signature strip on the back of both my cards says SEE ID.  Perhaps 2/10 people ask for ID.

I agree.  Except for me it seems more like 1 out of 5 people ask for ID.

Quoted: Maybe to you. I'm getting tired of standing behind people that get up to the movie snack bar, can't decide on Rasinets or Milk Duds for 30 seconds, then have to fish for thier card, for the $3 purchase, demand a reciept etc.....................

That is the people, not the method of payment. What I can't stand is people who fish in their pockets trying to find either enough cash or correct change.

Seems to happen much less with people that have cash, and is FAR FAR worse with the people that are using checks for those $3 purchases.

I have noticed no difference.

Every concession stand should be run by "Soup Nazi" rules. When you are in line figure out what you want and have means of payment ready. If you are no ready when you get to the front of the line, you go back to the end of the line until you are ready.

For once, we agree.

Edited for code.

Quoted: something stinks with that story. i have errors before using mine and the refund was ALWAYS processed and back in the nank within 72hrs of the transaction. In the case of fraud my bank takes care of the funds within 48hrs of verification. at worst they would have been broke for a coulpe of days, If you keep ALL of your money in one checking account your an idiot.

problem is what a bank can do is not regulated like credit cards. some banks are very helpful and you get prompt action. some (large national banks are the best examples) will take their time and force you to screw with them to get your money back, time off work, time documenting stuff etc etc. meanwhile you cant make car payments, mortgage payments.

most consumer advocates will tell you to never ever use check debit cards to pay because of the lack of legislation protecting the consumer. unlike the laws concerning credit cards.

Serious question here.

What about using your debit card as a credit card?  Mine is a debit card that can act as a credit card.  Does that protect you any better?  I don't see how, considering either way, it's still tied to a checking account.

Quoted: something stinks with that story. i have errors before using mine and the refund was ALWAYS processed and back in the nank within 72hrs of the transaction. In the case of fraud my bank takes care of the funds within 48hrs of verification. at worst they would have been broke for a coulpe of days, If you keep ALL of your money in one checking account your an idiot.

.....Unless your idiot bank uses the right of offset and raids your other accounts to back up the overcharged account, which happens automatically at most banks. With a 4000 dollar charge, that can easily wipe out most people's checking and savings accounts.

Bank of America also has a reputation for not giving a cold cup of diahrrea about their customers, much like First Union (there is a reason their initials were FU)/Wachovia.

My small local bank would instantly go nuts the minute they saw a POS transaction for 4 grand and would immediately start working on a fix.

Never use your debit card on a system where a person has to input the charge, as mistakes can screw you up.

Only use them on systems where YOU swipe them, and where YOU confirm the ammount being charged.

Further, NEVER use your debit card at a restaurant. It is not at all unheard of for people to work as a waiter and carry around a portable card reader with them just to get credit card numbers which they can then use themselves or sell to others.

NEVER EVER ALLOW YOUR DEBIT CARD OUT OF YOUR SIGHT!

Quoted: Serious question here. What about using your debit card as a credit card?  Mine is a debit card that can act as a credit card.  Does that protect you any better?  I don't see how, considering either way, it's still tied to a checking account.

If the card comes with the same fraud protections that credit cards come with, then they are probably OK. Unfortunatley, most debit type cards do not offer that kind of protection.

Even IF your debit card has the protections, it still wont' stop your account from being drained, and facing bounced checks all over town

Quoted: Even IF your debit card has the protections, it still wont' stop your account from being drained, and facing bounced checks all over town

That depends on the way the card agreement is structured. My bank, for instance, automatically assumes the customer is correct in a dispute, and will cover any checks without an overcharge pending a thorough investigation.

I don't see many setups like that at the bigger banks.

Quoted: BK Clerk rings up that 444.33 sale, on the card. Then voids the sale, and rings up the proper 4.33 sale, after the charge is credited. Takes $400 out of the cash drawer, and it all balances...........

Uh...... Wouldn't that be $440?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Using debit cards for a $4.33 purchase............... Debit and credit cards shou;d be illegal to use a fast food place, movie theaters, kiosks, etc. The minumum purchase should be $50.00, below that pony up the cash. That's crazy. CC's and DC's are easy to use. Offer more protection, particularly credit cards, than cash if something bad should happen, like losing your wallet or getting it stolen. It's particularly helpful to those of use who live over a thousand miles away from their bank. I don't have to incur service charges at the ATM. I will rethink using DCs now; however. Looks like using a CC and then paying it off is the safest option. Maybe to you. I'm getting tired of standing behind people that get up to the movie snack bar, can't decide on Rasinets or Milk Duds for 30 seconds, then have to fish for thier card, for the $3 purchase, demand a reciept etc..................... Seems to happen much less with people that have cash, and is FAR FAR worse with the people that are using checks for those $3 purchases. Every concession stand should be run by "Soup Nazi" rules. When you are in line figure out what you want and have means of payment ready. If you are no ready when you get to the front of the line, you go back to the end of the line until you are ready. Debit Cards, that are not also CC's, have only as much protection as your bank decides to give you. Your bank may decide to offer 100% reimbursement, or 0%. That's fun when the  Debit Card is connected to ALL your accounts, checking, savings, and automatic overdraft loans.   Credit Cards are REQUIRED by federal law to reimburse for fraud in most cases.

Debit cards come out of your savings/checking, regardless if they say Visa on them.  The transactions are insured by FSLIC  Federal Savings and Loan Insurance.  They will give you money back that is stolen from your account, if you provide an affidavit.  Since this happened to me, I know how it works.  They HAVE to do this.  The Secret Service is the entity that investigates, if they want to.  

Quoted: Don't people have limits on their debit cards? I have mine set up so that no more than $300 a day can be charged on it. It really helps prevent something like this from happening.

The only limits I have seen or used on a *debit* card is for cash withdrawls at ATM's. I have never heard of a limit on charges made to the card when it is swiped like a credit card. I did not know you could even place a limit on them like that.

Quoted: Quoted: The one thing that pisses me off is that they don't require signatures at the fast food joints.  That and they never ask to see my ID when I use my check card. The signature strip on the back of both my cards says SEE ID.  Perhaps 2/10 people ask for ID. I agree.  Except for me it seems more like 1 out of 5 people ask for ID.

 Depending on the CC, you just voided the card. You might want to check up on that with them.

They need a new bank. I never use a debit card for small purchases but if an error was made, my bank would correct it in a hearbeat. In fact my bank made an error which caused some checks to bounce. The bank conferenced called my accounts with me on the line and explained the siituation. In most cases the accont cancelled any late fees and the bank paid the late fees of those who wouldn't.

Shit happens......and carrying a wad of money around isn't the answer.

Bomber

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Using debit cards for a $4.33 purchase............... Debit and credit cards shou;d be illegal to use a fast food place, movie theaters, kiosks, etc. The minumum purchase should be $50.00, below that pony up the cash. That's crazy. CC's and DC's are easy to use. Offer more protection, particularly credit cards, than cash if something bad should happen, like losing your wallet or getting it stolen. It's particularly helpful to those of use who live over a thousand miles away from their bank. I don't have to incur service charges at the ATM. I will rethink using DCs now; however. Looks like using a CC and then paying it off is the safest option. Maybe to you. I'm getting tired of standing behind people that get up to the movie snack bar, can't decide on Rasinets or Milk Duds for 30 seconds, then have to fish for thier card, for the $3 purchase, demand a reciept etc..................... Seems to happen much less with people that have cash, and is FAR FAR worse with the people that are using checks for those $3 purchases. Every concession stand should be run by "Soup Nazi" rules. When you are in line figure out what you want and have means of payment ready. If you are no ready when you get to the front of the line, you go back to the end of the line until you are ready. Debit Cards, that are not also CC's, have only as much protection as your bank decides to give you. Your bank may decide to offer 100% reimbursement, or 0%. That's fun when the  Debit Card is connected to ALL your accounts, checking, savings, and automatic overdraft loans.   Credit Cards are REQUIRED by federal law to reimburse for fraud in most cases. Debit cards come out of your savings/checking, regardless if they say Visa on them.  The transactions are insured by FSLIC  Federal Savings and Loan Insurance.  They will give you money back that is stolen from your account, if you provide an affidavit.  Since this happened to me, I know how it works.  They HAVE to do this.  The Secret Service is the entity that investigates, if they want to.

My understanding, is if you have one of those combo debit/credit cards, the protections for ALL transactions fall under the federal laws covering credit cards. I think the laws making that rule is appx 5 yrs old.

If it is just a debit card, your bank can make it's own terms of use rules.

Quoted: Quoted: BK Clerk rings up that 444.33 sale, on the card. Then voids the sale, and rings up the proper 4.33 sale, after the charge is credited. Takes $400 out of the cash drawer, and it all balances........... Uh...... Wouldn't that be $440?

D'oh

Quoted: Quoted: The one thing that pisses me off is that they don't require signatures at the fast food joints.  That and they never ask to see my ID when I use my check card. The signature strip on the back of both my cards says SEE ID.  Perhaps 2/10 people ask for ID.[/red I agree.  Except for me it seems more like 1 out of 5 people ask for ID.

This is a joke right??

2/10 = 1/5

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The one thing that pisses me off is that they don't require signatures at the fast food joints.  That and they never ask to see my ID when I use my check card. The signature strip on the back of both my cards says SEE ID.  Perhaps 2/10 people ask for ID. I agree.  Except for me it seems more like 1 out of 5 people ask for ID. This is a joke right?? 2/10 = 1/5

Nope, no joke.  

O.K...Maybe it's closer to 5 out of 25 people.
P.S...

I was thinking, maybe 20 of 100


Bomber

Quoted: I WOULD NEVER USE A CHECK CARD TO PAY FOR ANYTHING.. EVER.. I WOULD NEVER GIVE A COMPANY OR ANY ENTITY THE RIGHT TO DEBIT MY CHECKING ACCOUNT AUTOMATICALLY.. EVER.. use credit cards. if you debit checking accounts via the internet.. make it a one time thing where you do it yourself.

This is the way I do it as well.  There is no reason to use a debit card over a credit card.  

It is more than just fraud protection, it is the ancillary benefits (cash rebates, car rental protection, automatic warranty extension, etc.) that you also get with the credit card that you do not get with a debit card.  

My debit card sees only use as an ATM card.  Nothing more.  

Quoted: It also sounds like they need a new bank. What if BK had pulled a scam and DIDN'T want to send a letter? I had Hilton charge $1,300+ onto my credit card because someone basically assumed my identity at the hotel and ran the bill up. My bank put the money back in my account THE NEXT MORNING, NO QUESTIONS ASKED, and THEN went after the merchant. They fought like tigers to justify it, but after their proof was shown to be BS (the signature wasn't mine, not even CLOSE to mine, and I had proof I was out of state), the charges were dismissed permanently.

Believe it or not, it depends if it was run as a debit or a credit.  Banks have more ability to reverse credit transactions than debit transactions.  Not sure why that is.

I used to work at a credit card processor for merchants, and we always ran into that problem.  If it was a credit purchuse, there were a lot of ways to resolve issues and get the money placed into the account, if it was a debit purchuse the merchant was up shit creek and had to wait for the system to process the transactions, which took a couple of days.

I use my debit card frequently, but try to keep cash on hand just in case. I dont like credit cards because of percentage charges, they cost more to use for the same convenience my debit card offers.

My bank would have put all the money back in my account by the next day.

I had a similar problem at WhatABurger, I didnt have cash on me so I used my card for me and a friends lunch and they debited TRIPLE the amount outta my account and didnt want to help fix the error. I called my bank, faxed the receipt and had the difference in my account the next morning

Quoted: The one thing that pisses me off is that they don't require signatures at the fast food joints.  That and they never ask to see my ID when I use my check card. The signature strip on the back of both my cards says SEE ID.  Perhaps 2/10 people ask for ID.

According to VISA merchant rules, a merchant is not supposed to accept a credit card that has a "See ID" on the back.  VISA stipulates that a card is not valid without a signature.  

My Debit card would have rejected a transaction of that size anyways.  Regardless, they would give me the money back ASAP just as a credit card.  As it happened in that scenario, the funds were held anyways.

Quoted: Using debit cards for a $4.33 purchase............... Debit and credit cards shou;d be illegal to use a fast food place, movie theaters, kiosks, etc. The minumum purchase should be $50.00, below that pony up the cash. Next, this was an unintetional "whoopsie", it can be done just as quickly as a deliberate. BK Clerk rings up that 444.33 sale, on the card. Then voids the sale, and rings up the proper 4.33 sale, after the charge is credited. Takes $400 out of the cash drawer, and it all balances........... Everytime you swipe your card, you are potentially giving your account info to a thief.

That is the craziest thing I have ever heard.... Why not use a debit or credit card?  It's much safer than carrying a pocket full of cash, and keeps more money in your account.  I don't like taking out $20 to pay for a $1 soda, the other $19 is now no longer in my account and I can lose it.

Quoted: something stinks with that story. i have errors before using mine and the refund was ALWAYS processed and back in the nank within 72hrs of the transaction. In the case of fraud my bank takes care of the funds within 48hrs of verification. at worst they would have been broke for a coulpe of days, If you keep ALL of your money in one checking account your an idiot.

Was it a $4000 debit error?  That might have helped contribute to the difficulties of this problem.

Quoted: Serious question here. What about using your debit card as a credit card?  Mine is a debit card that can act as a credit card.  Does that protect you any better?  I don't see how, considering either way, it's still tied to a checking account.

Actually it does protect you better.  If you run it as a credit, you know have the protection that VISA or Mastercard offers, and the merchants and banks have to play by Visa or M/C rules.

Buncha fucking chicken littles in this thread.  Sorry, I think I will go ahead and use my debit card anyway...  

My debit card has a daily limit on transactions, and my bank is small enough and that kind of purchase would be out of ordinary enough that they would call me to check anyway.