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Posted: 9/5/2005 2:56:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2005 3:07:19 PM EDT by jquillen1985]
We all know that the head of FEMA has zero experience in disaster relief or logistics. His last job was a horse organization judge when he was fired for doing a poor job. He was recommended by his former college roommate. Why was he appointed with no experience?

ETA: I bet he's out of a job after all this is said and done.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 3:05:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
We all know that the head of FEMA has zero experience in disaster reliefe or logistics. His last job was a horse organization judge when he was fired for doing a poor job. He was recommended by his former college roommate. Why was he appointed with no experience?

ETA: I bet he's out of a job after all this is said and done.



Political Appointees should only be ambassadors to small countries in my opinion. Giving a person a job in a critical position just because they donated a lot of money to a campaign needs to friggin stop. It got people killed here. Both sides do it, and I am tired of it.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 3:19:12 PM EDT
I guess no one has anything to say except jks?
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 3:26:56 PM EDT
Pretty hard to disagree with his summary...

Link Posted: 9/5/2005 4:22:27 PM EDT
being a horse guy was his last job before joining fema and spending several years handling several hurrican and flood disasters before his buddy left the job and said he was the best guy to replace him.

this was blatant anti-bush reporting from the media. they made it seem like this guy came in sunday from the arabian horse judging contest when in reality he has several years experience under his belt.

don't get me wrong, he fucked up royally and waited too fucking long before shifting his ass in gear and should be hung by his nads, but credit where credit is due. he was no cherry.

don't know if that makes it better or worse...
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 4:31:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JB69:
Pretty hard to disagree with his summary...




+1
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 4:37:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
being a horse guy was his last job before joining fema and spending several years handling several hurrican and flood disasters before his buddy left the job and said he was the best guy to replace him.

this was blatant anti-bush reporting from the media. they made it seem like this guy came in sunday from the arabian horse judging contest when in reality he has several years experience under his belt.

don't get me wrong, he fucked up royally and waited too fucking long before shifting his ass in gear and should be hung by his nads, but credit where credit is due. he was no cherry.

don't know if that makes it better or worse...


Can't believe people take the media at face value anymore.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 4:48:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
being a horse guy was his last job before joining fema and spending several years handling several hurrican and flood disasters before his buddy left the job and said he was the best guy to replace him.

this was blatant anti-bush reporting from the media. they made it seem like this guy came in sunday from the arabian horse judging contest when in reality he has several years experience under his belt.

don't get me wrong, he fucked up royally and waited too fucking long before shifting his ass in gear and should be hung by his nads, but credit where credit is due. he was no cherry.

don't know if that makes it better or worse...


Can't believe people take the media at face value anymore.


heh, i can't believe the media tries to bullshit us like this anymore after rathergate. it seems like you gotta wait a few days for the truth from the media cuz the name of the game is STILL getting on air before anyone else, truth be damned...you have to wait a few days before that follows the initial story.

last night, 60 minutes had nagin on and he was whining he knew someone had thrown themself off the roof of the superdome in despair over the situation and that he personally knew 2 cops who'd committed suicide because they were so depressed over the situation. of course, there was no verification by cbs that nagin was speaking the truth and i haven't seen any story of a suicide off the roof of the superdome but, by jimminee, 60 minutes was the first with the interview!

this is news by emotion and opinion, not fact and truth.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 4:52:16 PM EDT
The problem is the Homeland Security guy. DHS F-cked up FEMA.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 4:57:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ar15_rifleman:
The problem is the Homeland Security guy. DHS F-cked up FEMA.



this may well be the most accurate assesment. will be interesting to see what brown has to say. chertoff has some obvious problems and fema did well on their own for a number of years.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 5:16:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
being a horse guy was his last job before joining fema and spending several years handling several hurrican and flood disasters before his buddy left the job and said he was the best guy to replace him.

this was blatant anti-bush reporting from the media. they made it seem like this guy came in sunday from the arabian horse judging contest when in reality he has several years experience under his belt.

don't get me wrong, he fucked up royally and waited too fucking long before shifting his ass in gear and should be hung by his nads, but credit where credit is due. he was no cherry.

don't know if that makes it better or worse...



So what was his experience?
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 5:22:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2005 5:25:01 PM EDT by jquillen1985]
Prior to joining FEMA, Mr. Brown practiced law in Colorado and Oklahoma, where he served as a bar examiner on ethics and professional responsibility for the Oklahoma Supreme Court and as a hearing examiner for the Colorado Supreme Court. He had been appointed as a special prosecutor in police disciplinary matters. While attending law school he was appointed by the Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee of the Oklahoma Legislature as the Finance Committee Staff Director, where he oversaw state fiscal issues. His background in state and local government also includes serving as an assistant city manager with emergency services oversight and as a city councilman.

www.fema.gov/about/bios/brown.shtm

Blatant anti-Bush reporting or simply the truth that GOPers don't want to admit is true?

ETA: And why did his bio leave out his horse job which was actually the last thing he did before being appointed to FEMA?

ETA again: is a couple of years "several years of experience?" I think he has a lot more experience as a lawyer than a disaster relief specialist
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 5:27:06 PM EDT
Did you also know the previous FEMA chief, who was also his roommate, started a consulting company that gets most of its contracts from (gasp!) FEMA?!
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 5:30:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
So what was his experience?




deputy director during some 100+ fema events? he may or may not be the best man for the job, but he is experienced enough that his position is defendable.

my personal feeling is that many things in government and society will have to change before fema can become more effective. the real question is if the us wants to make disaster planning and recovery a priority.

Link Posted: 9/5/2005 5:35:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By torstin:

Originally Posted By ar15_rifleman:
The problem is the Homeland Security guy. DHS F-cked up FEMA.



this may well be the most accurate assesment. will be interesting to see what brown has to say. chertoff has some obvious problems and fema did well on their own for a number of years.



I am still looking for any sign of how DHS or FEMA fouled this up. Remember, this is a disaster area larger than ever dealt with. How long did you expect it to take?
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 5:36:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By torstin:

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
So what was his experience?




deputy director during some 100+ fema events? he may or may not be the best man for the job, but he is experienced enough that his position is defendable.

my personal feeling is that many things in government and society will have to change before fema can become more effective. the real question is if the us wants to make disaster planning and recovery a priority.




Can someone get me a list of those events? I'm not saying they're not worthy of FEMA, but my position from the beginning is that he had no experience at all before being appointed the head of a very important federal organization. Prior experience in the field of that organization = zero. I'm sure there are tons of former generals or non-profit directors who wouldn't turn down an appointment like that, but some lawyer because his roommate suggested him?
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 5:37:13 PM EDT
Funny how how topics that was discussed on the news all of a sudden show up here a few moments later?
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 5:40:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2005 5:42:48 PM EDT by jquillen1985]

Originally Posted By DefMan:
Funny how how topics that was discussed on the news all of a sudden show up here a few moments later?



Bad timing, I know. But I'd read Mr. Brown's bio a few days ago.

ETA: Remember that time Hurricane Katrina hit and the news reported things and people started talking about it on internet forums? I remember when there was news about looting in New Orleans and lots of people on an internet forum said we should kill them all.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 5:47:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2005 5:48:39 PM EDT by jkstexas2001]
It is clear the man was a political appointee, not qualified for his position. Political Appointees should be put where they can do no harm, unless they have the requisite skill set for the position.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 7:52:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
It is clear the man was a political appointee, not qualified for his position. Political Appointees should be put where they can do no harm, unless they have the requisite skill set for the position.



agreed

FOGWB
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 7:57:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rogerdodger:

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
It is clear the man was a political appointee, not qualified for his position. Political Appointees should be put where they can do no harm, unless they have the requisite skill set for the position.



agreed

FOGWB



+1
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 8:58:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
It is clear the man was a political appointee, not qualified for his position. Political Appointees should be put where they can do no harm, unless they have the requisite skill set for the position.



From what i read, he was recommended by his predecessor, the man who had the job beofre him. Even said he has accumulated the skills needed for the job. looks like the job got too big too quickly for him. It happens.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 9:20:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
being a horse guy was his last job before joining fema and spending several years handling several hurrican and flood disasters before his buddy left the job and said he was the best guy to replace him.

this was blatant anti-bush reporting from the media. they made it seem like this guy came in sunday from the arabian horse judging contest when in reality he has several years experience under his belt.

don't get me wrong, he fucked up royally and waited too fucking long before shifting his ass in gear and should be hung by his nads, but credit where credit is due. he was no cherry.

don't know if that makes it better or worse...



Do you guys not understand how the rules work for the Federal Government to help States?
The State or County or City must ASK for help. My understanding is that President Bush asked the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of LA to ask for help TWO DAYS BEFORE the Hurricaine hit!

Mayor dipshit said he had everything under control and had 500 school buses that could be used to evacuate people if needed. I think the White House prepared paperwork and faxed it to Mayor Numbnuts and Governor Dipwad and all they had to do was SIGN it.

Do you also not understand that in any disaster it always takes several days before things really start to happen with relief coming in from private as well as Government workers. That is why the President tried to get them to ask for help ahead of time!

Anyone blaming the President or the Government is an uninformed idiot or a Bush Basher.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 9:22:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By torstin:

Originally Posted By ar15_rifleman:
The problem is the Homeland Security guy. DHS F-cked up FEMA.



this may well be the most accurate assesment. will be interesting to see what brown has to say. chertoff has some obvious problems and fema did well on their own for a number of years.



How do either of you figure that?
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 9:24:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
Prior to joining FEMA, Mr. Brown practiced law in Colorado and Oklahoma, where he served as a bar examiner on ethics and professional responsibility for the Oklahoma Supreme Court and as a hearing examiner for the Colorado Supreme Court. He had been appointed as a special prosecutor in police disciplinary matters. While attending law school he was appointed by the Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee of the Oklahoma Legislature as the Finance Committee Staff Director, where he oversaw state fiscal issues. His background in state and local government also includes serving as an assistant city manager with emergency services oversight and as a city councilman.

www.fema.gov/about/bios/brown.shtm

Blatant anti-Bush reporting or simply the truth that GOPers don't want to admit is true?

ETA: And why did his bio leave out his horse job which was actually the last thing he did before being appointed to FEMA?

ETA again: is a couple of years "several years of experience?" I think he has a lot more experience as a lawyer than a disaster relief specialist



How many people in this Country have much experience in disaster relief?????????????????
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 9:24:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:
Do you guys not understand how the rules work for the Federal Government to help States?
The State or County or City must ASK for help. My understanding is that President Bush asked the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of LA to ask for help TWO DAYS BEFORE the Hurricaine hit!

Mayor dipshit said he had everything under control and had 500 school buses that could be used to evacuate people if needed. I think the White House prepared paperwork and faxed it to Mayor Numbnuts and Governor Dipwad and all they had to do was SIGN it.

Do you also not understand that in any disaster it always takes several days before things really start to happen with relief coming in from private as well as Government workers. That is why the President tried to get them to ask for help ahead of time!

Anyone blaming the President or the Government is an uninformed idiot or a Bush Basher.


+1.

Just another "Blame it on Bush" spoke in the leftists' wheel.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 9:24:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
being a horse guy was his last job before joining fema and spending several years handling several hurrican and flood disasters before his buddy left the job and said he was the best guy to replace him.

this was blatant anti-bush reporting from the media. they made it seem like this guy came in sunday from the arabian horse judging contest when in reality he has several years experience under his belt.

don't get me wrong, he fucked up royally and waited too fucking long before shifting his ass in gear and should be hung by his nads, but credit where credit is due. he was no cherry.

don't know if that makes it better or worse...



Do you guys not understand how the rules work for the Federal Government to help States?
The State or County or City must ASK for help. My understanding is that President Bush asked the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of LA to ask for help TWO DAYS BEFORE the Hurricaine hit!

Mayor dipshit said he had everything under control and had 500 school buses that could be used to evacuate people if needed. I think the White House prepared paperwork and faxed it to Mayor Numbnuts and Governor Dipwad and all they had to do was SIGN it.

Do you also not understand that in any disaster it always takes several days before things really start to happen with relief coming in from private as well as Government workers. That is why the President tried to get them to ask for help ahead of time!

Anyone blaming the President or the Government is an uninformed idiot or a Bush Basher.



or most likely, both.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 9:31:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
It is clear that I don't like President Bush and take every opportunity to slam him. It is also clear that I am not qualified to decide whether or not the FEMA director is qualified to hold his position, but I will type on the internet that it is clear he is not. Political Appointees should be appointed like they have been for 230 years.



Fixed it for you.
I have noticed you have been blaming the Government for just about everything for the past week. Why is that?
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 9:54:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JB69:
Pretty hard to disagree with his summary...




+1
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 9:58:13 PM EDT
Funny.
I saw a video of him a few days before the storm saying he was pre-postioning emergency supplies and stuff. He actually said they were "Leaning way forward on this storm".


Link Posted: 9/5/2005 10:01:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2005 10:04:52 PM EDT by jkstexas2001]

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
It is clear that I don't like President Bush and take every opportunity to slam him. It is also clear that I am not qualified to decide whether or not the FEMA director is qualified to hold his position, but I will type on the internet that it is clear he is not. Political Appointees should be appointed like they have been for 230 years.



Fixed it for you.
I have noticed you have been blaming the Government for just about everything for the past week. Why is that?



I don't appreciate the "fixed it for you" crap. I am a long time supporter of Bush. I have been a supporter of him since his first run for governor of Texas. So, keep your "fixed it for you" to yourself. That being said, I do not agree with everything he does, primarily on the area of Border Security. I also do not agree with the policy of appointing donors to positions where they are not qualified. Note that somewhere else I said "both" sides do this. It is clear the Brown dropped the ball here. He does not have the background for the position. The governor and the mayor also dropped the ball. Bush DID NOT DROP THE BALL - The Governor put him on hold while she remained in "analysis paralysis" when Bush called her and asked her to allow him to help. You don't know shit about me or my qualifications. Having worked for the bureaucratic mess known as government, I do have some insight into how it works, which is one reason I am currently no longer working for the government. I have seen good leadership and bad leadership, there is no stronger contrast than that between Mayor Guiliani and Mayor Nagin. Good leadership, qualified leadership, can make a world of difference. I do not blame the government for everything, as you state -- I think the folks who failed to heed the warning -- if they were not invalids or otherwise rendered immobile -- were fools. There is a lot of blame to spread around here. I am not some 15-year old in a basement who knows nothing about how the world works and speaks out of his ass about things with which he has no clue. I will admit, I've never worked for FEMA, as an EMT, or for the National Guard, but I do believe I have some insight into how things work.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 10:07:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:

Originally Posted By torstin:

Originally Posted By ar15_rifleman:
The problem is the Homeland Security guy. DHS F-cked up FEMA.



this may well be the most accurate assesment. will be interesting to see what brown has to say. chertoff has some obvious problems and fema did well on their own for a number of years.



I am still looking for any sign of how DHS or FEMA fouled this up. Remember, this is a disaster area larger than ever dealt with. How long did you expect it to take?



I've got stuff to do. Please make sure Bush, "The destroyer of the 9th Ward"(notice I didn't address hime as President) has this New Orleans thing wrapped up by Friday.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 10:14:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2005 10:15:03 PM EDT by jkstexas2001]
The primary blame lies with the governor, who refused President Bush's help. The mayor failed to execute the disaster plan which, among other things, said to use buses to evacuate the people. There were also significant failures at the FEMA level: FEMA turned away caravans of boat owners who wanted to help in the rescue effort, and during an interview I heard today, the reverend who travelled with President Bush said FEMA turned back a caravan of trucks carrying food. Stuff did not start getting better until Lt. General Honore showed up.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 10:20:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
being a horse guy was his last job before joining fema and spending several years handling several hurrican and flood disasters before his buddy left the job and said he was the best guy to replace him.

this was blatant anti-bush reporting from the media. they made it seem like this guy came in sunday from the arabian horse judging contest when in reality he has several years experience under his belt.

don't get me wrong, he fucked up royally and waited too fucking long before shifting his ass in gear and should be hung by his nads, but credit where credit is due. he was no cherry.

don't know if that makes it better or worse...



Do you guys not understand how the rules work for the Federal Government to help States?
The State or County or City must ASK for help. My understanding is that President Bush asked the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of LA to ask for help TWO DAYS BEFORE the Hurricaine hit!

Mayor dipshit said he had everything under control and had 500 school buses that could be used to evacuate people if needed. I think the White House prepared paperwork and faxed it to Mayor Numbnuts and Governor Dipwad and all they had to do was SIGN it.

Do you also not understand that in any disaster it always takes several days before things really start to happen with relief coming in from private as well as Government workers. That is why the President tried to get them to ask for help ahead of time!

Anyone blaming the President or the Government is an uninformed idiot or a Bush Basher.



+1

I'm not saying this is the quintessential explanation but there's a lot of facts here. As you state there are some clear steps that have to be taken. Bush was actually repelled in his offer to consolidate under federal control. The Governor basically had him cooling his heels for 24 hours while she consulted with her "FEMA" guy. When Bush declares a Federal Emergency it still does not allow him to just take over a state's actions. Only if he took the legal steps could he do that and that would require clear evidence of lawlessness and an appeal from the Governor. The media is spreading some incorrect information with little regard for it's effect on morale etc.



Who Is Responsible?

Here's just the part on the levees.

Several critics, including a former head of the Corps of Engineers, suggested in a Tribune story Thursday that the flooding in New Orleans could have been less severe had the federal government fully funded projects to improve the levees and drainage in the city.

Congress in 1999 authorized the corps to conduct a $12 million study to determine how much it would cost to protect New Orleans from a Category 5 hurricane, but the study isn't scheduled to get under way until 2006. It was not clear why the study has taken so long to begin, though Congress has only provided in the range of $100,000 or $200,000 a year so far.

Al Naomi, senior project manager in the corps' New Orleans District, said it would cost as much as $2.5 billion to build such a system, which would likely include gates to block the Gulf of Mexico from Lake Pontchartrain and additional levees. If the project were fully funded and started immediately, Naomi said it could be completed in three to five years.

A project to build up the levees to withstand a Category 3 hurricane was launched in 1965 after Hurricane Betsy and was supposed to be completed in 10 years, but it remains incomplete because of a lack of funding.
If a project launched in 1965 and supposed to be completed in 10 years is still not completed, due to funding cutbacks in many administrations, hopefully no one is stupid enough to suggest that the above $2.5 billion project would make any sense at all. New Orleans should be moved, not rebuilt in place
In recent years, funding has dropped precipitously, which some officials attributed in part to the escalating costs of the Iraq war. Funding for a drainage project in New Orleans went from $69 million in 2001 to $36.5 million in the current fiscal year, while funding for such hurricane-protection projects as levees around Lake Pontchartrain declined from $10 million in 2001 to $5.7 million this year, according to figures provided by the office of Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.).

Funding for these projects has generally trended downward since at least the last years of the Clinton administration. Congressional records show that the levee work on Lake Pontchartrain received $23 million in 1998 and $16 million in 1999. It was not clear how much the drainage project received in 1998, but records show it received $75 million in 1999.

Neither the White House nor the Corps of Engineers would confirm the numbers, nor would they provide funding levels dating to previous administrations
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 10:23:24 PM EDT
Why did the Governor brush President Bush off and consult Witt, Clinton's FEMA director? Is she THAT freakin partisan, where she won't even talk to a republican? Talk about putting her party's interests above the lives of her constituents....
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 7:24:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
I don't appreciate the "fixed it for you" crap. I am a long time supporter of Bush. I have been a supporter of him since his first run for governor of Texas. So, keep your "fixed it for you" to yourself. That being said, I do not agree with everything he does, primarily on the area of Border Security. I also do not agree with the policy of appointing donors to positions where they are not qualified. Note that somewhere else I said "both" sides do this. It is clear the Brown dropped the ball here. He does not have the background for the position. The governor and the mayor also dropped the ball. Bush DID NOT DROP THE BALL - The Governor put him on hold while she remained in "analysis paralysis" when Bush called her and asked her to allow him to help. You don't know shit about me or my qualifications. Having worked for the bureaucratic mess known as government, I do have some insight into how it works, which is one reason I am currently no longer working for the government. I have seen good leadership and bad leadership, there is no stronger contrast than that between Mayor Guiliani and Mayor Nagin. Good leadership, qualified leadership, can make a world of difference. I do not blame the government for everything, as you state -- I think the folks who failed to heed the warning -- if they were not invalids or otherwise rendered immobile -- were fools. There is a lot of blame to spread around here. I am not some 15-year old in a basement who knows nothing about how the world works and speaks out of his ass about things with which he has no clue. I will admit, I've never worked for FEMA, as an EMT, or for the National Guard, but I do believe I have some insight into how things work.



I said you were blaming the Government for "just about everything" not everything. I disagree with you theat the Director of FEMA is not qualified and wonder where you get you information. You say it is clear Brown dropped the ball". How do you figure that? What did he or FEMA do wrong. People who know how things work, know that in almost every disaster it takes several days to get things moving. What is different here?

I appreciate your comment about the people who were able to leave but did not leave when they were told to. Those people are fools and deserve their fate. I disagree with the "There is plenty of blame to go around" comment. Why blame anyone? It is a hurricaine for crying out loud! There was no way to really do anything about the actual event. You could only plan and prepare ahead of time, (Which they did) and respond afterward, (Which they have and continue to do)

I know you have been around here awhile but if you don't know the "fixed it for you" is used quite often and I find it a humorous way to respond to people I either disagree with or who I feel typed a stupid or incorrect statement.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 7:31:33 AM EDT
My main issue with FEMA is they are turning away food supplies, people with boats who wanted to help with the SAR effort, etc. That shows a severe lack of communication/ooordination, which is a leadership/management issue.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 8:25:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
My main issue with FEMA is they are turning away food supplies, people with boats who wanted to help with the SAR effort, etc. That shows a severe lack of communication/ooordination, which is a leadership/management issue.



Sorry but you have absolutely nothing to support the reasoning supplies and resources were turned away was due to “a severe lack of communication/coordination”. Just making an assumption does not make it valid.

What this does show is limited ability to transport additional stuff in due to the fact all assets were tied up, there was a transportation bottleneck due to road outages, AND a unstable/dangerous security situation.

People parroting over and over the Federal response was slow does not make that true. It was expected it would take the Federal Government 3-5 days to get major assets in place and that is EXACTLY what happen.

ALL indications are FEMA preformed as well as was expected before events on the ground.


Link Posted: 9/6/2005 8:37:35 AM EDT
With all the blame flying around... what did FEMA do to "drop the ball?" How did Bush fail? Blame is one things, but what are the facts?
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 4:42:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Langadune:
With all the blame flying around... what did FEMA do to "drop the ball?" How did Bush fail? Blame is one things, but what are the facts?



They just showed on CNN hundreds of trailors (the type you can live in) sitting in a Georgia Military Base that were planned to be sent down to the region, but FEMA put a hold on it because of a bureaucratic mix up.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:13:33 AM EDT
All I know for sure is there's GOING to be a slight change made to the FEMA agency's name and seal....





­
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:18:25 AM EDT
Didn't you already beat this to death here?

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=387325

Weren't you pretty much proven to be wrong there? Yes, you where.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:19:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
being a horse guy was his last job before joining fema and spending several years handling several hurrican and flood disasters before his buddy left the job and said he was the best guy to replace him.

this was blatant anti-bush reporting from the media. they made it seem like this guy came in sunday from the arabian horse judging contest when in reality he has several years experience under his belt.

don't get me wrong, he fucked up royally and waited too fucking long before shifting his ass in gear and should be hung by his nads, but credit where credit is due. he was no cherry.

don't know if that makes it better or worse...



How about the LA gov and NO mayor kept telling everyone they had it under control until it was too late?

How about FEMA has said for years it would take 72 to 96 hours to gear up for a disaster?

No one fucked up but the gov of LA and the mayor of NO.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:22:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
being a horse guy was his last job before joining fema and spending several years handling several hurrican and flood disasters before his buddy left the job and said he was the best guy to replace him.

this was blatant anti-bush reporting from the media. they made it seem like this guy came in sunday from the arabian horse judging contest when in reality he has several years experience under his belt.

don't get me wrong, he fucked up royally and waited too fucking long before shifting his ass in gear and should be hung by his nads, but credit where credit is due. he was no cherry.

don't know if that makes it better or worse...



Do you guys not understand how the rules work for the Federal Government to help States?
The State or County or City must ASK for help. My understanding is that President Bush asked the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of LA to ask for help TWO DAYS BEFORE the Hurricaine hit!

Mayor dipshit said he had everything under control and had 500 school buses that could be used to evacuate people if needed. I think the White House prepared paperwork and faxed it to Mayor Numbnuts and Governor Dipwad and all they had to do was SIGN it.

Do you also not understand that in any disaster it always takes several days before things really start to happen with relief coming in from private as well as Government workers. That is why the President tried to get them to ask for help ahead of time!

Anyone blaming the President or the Government is an uninformed idiot or a Bush Basher.



Don't bother with pesky facts, it might confuse the Bush bashers.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:24:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
The primary blame lies with the governor, who refused President Bush's help. The mayor failed to execute the disaster plan which, among other things, said to use buses to evacuate the people. There were also significant failures at the FEMA level: FEMA turned away caravans of boat owners who wanted to help in the rescue effort, and during an interview I heard today, the reverend who travelled with President Bush said FEMA turned back a caravan of trucks carrying food. Stuff did not start getting better until Lt. General Honore showed up.



Could the turning away have something to do with rescuers being shot at?????????????????
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:26:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nightstalker:

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
being a horse guy was his last job before joining fema and spending several years handling several hurrican and flood disasters before his buddy left the job and said he was the best guy to replace him.

this was blatant anti-bush reporting from the media. they made it seem like this guy came in sunday from the arabian horse judging contest when in reality he has several years experience under his belt.

don't get me wrong, he fucked up royally and waited too fucking long before shifting his ass in gear and should be hung by his nads, but credit where credit is due. he was no cherry.

don't know if that makes it better or worse...



Do you guys not understand how the rules work for the Federal Government to help States?
The State or County or City must ASK for help. My understanding is that President Bush asked the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of LA to ask for help TWO DAYS BEFORE the Hurricaine hit!

Mayor dipshit said he had everything under control and had 500 school buses that could be used to evacuate people if needed. I think the White House prepared paperwork and faxed it to Mayor Numbnuts and Governor Dipwad and all they had to do was SIGN it.

Do you also not understand that in any disaster it always takes several days before things really start to happen with relief coming in from private as well as Government workers. That is why the President tried to get them to ask for help ahead of time!

Anyone blaming the President or the Government is an uninformed idiot or a Bush Basher.



+1

I'm not saying this is the quintessential explanation but there's a lot of facts here. As you state there are some clear steps that have to be taken. Bush was actually repelled in his offer to consolidate under federal control. The Governor basically had him cooling his heels for 24 hours while she consulted with her "FEMA" guy. When Bush declares a Federal Emergency it still does not allow him to just take over a state's actions. Only if he took the legal steps could he do that and that would require clear evidence of lawlessness and an appeal from the Governor. The media is spreading some incorrect information with little regard for it's effect on morale etc.



Who Is Responsible?

Here's just the part on the levees.

Several critics, including a former head of the Corps of Engineers, suggested in a Tribune story Thursday that the flooding in New Orleans could have been less severe had the federal government fully funded projects to improve the levees and drainage in the city.

Congress in 1999 authorized the corps to conduct a $12 million study to determine how much it would cost to protect New Orleans from a Category 5 hurricane, but the study isn't scheduled to get under way until 2006. It was not clear why the study has taken so long to begin, though Congress has only provided in the range of $100,000 or $200,000 a year so far.

Al Naomi, senior project manager in the corps' New Orleans District, said it would cost as much as $2.5 billion to build such a system, which would likely include gates to block the Gulf of Mexico from Lake Pontchartrain and additional levees. If the project were fully funded and started immediately, Naomi said it could be completed in three to five years.

A project to build up the levees to withstand a Category 3 hurricane was launched in 1965 after Hurricane Betsy and was supposed to be completed in 10 years, but it remains incomplete because of a lack of funding.
If a project launched in 1965 and supposed to be completed in 10 years is still not completed, due to funding cutbacks in many administrations, hopefully no one is stupid enough to suggest that the above $2.5 billion project would make any sense at all. New Orleans should be moved, not rebuilt in place
In recent years, funding has dropped precipitously, which some officials attributed in part to the escalating costs of the Iraq war. Funding for a drainage project in New Orleans went from $69 million in 2001 to $36.5 million in the current fiscal year, while funding for such hurricane-protection projects as levees around Lake Pontchartrain declined from $10 million in 2001 to $5.7 million this year, according to figures provided by the office of Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.).

Funding for these projects has generally trended downward since at least the last years of the Clinton administration. Congressional records show that the levee work on Lake Pontchartrain received $23 million in 1998 and $16 million in 1999. It was not clear how much the drainage project received in 1998, but records show it received $75 million in 1999.

Neither the White House nor the Corps of Engineers would confirm the numbers, nor would they provide funding levels dating to previous administrations



I guess you missed the part where NO bought a casino, a marina, and a jet with levee money.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:27:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
The primary blame lies with the governor, who refused President Bush's help. The mayor failed to execute the disaster plan which, among other things, said to use buses to evacuate the people. There were also significant failures at the FEMA level: FEMA turned away caravans of boat owners who wanted to help in the rescue effort, and during an interview I heard today, the reverend who travelled with President Bush said FEMA turned back a caravan of trucks carrying food. Stuff did not start getting better until Lt. General Honore showed up.



Could the turning away have something to do with rescuers being shot at?????????????????



Trent Lott was talking about it. He said it was a bureaucratic snafu, not associated with any security related issues.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:29:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:

Originally Posted By Langadune:
With all the blame flying around... what did FEMA do to "drop the ball?" How did Bush fail? Blame is one things, but what are the facts?



They just showed on CNN hundreds of trailors (the type you can live in) sitting in a Georgia Military Base that were planned to be sent down to the region, but FEMA put a hold on it because of a bureaucratic mix up.



CNN????????????????? Nah, they would never distort the truth.

How about the hundreds of busses at the disposal of the NO mayor that were never used? Did CNN show that?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:29:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
The primary blame lies with the governor, who refused President Bush's help. The mayor failed to execute the disaster plan which, among other things, said to use buses to evacuate the people. There were also significant failures at the FEMA level: FEMA turned away caravans of boat owners who wanted to help in the rescue effort, and during an interview I heard today, the reverend who travelled with President Bush said FEMA turned back a caravan of trucks carrying food. Stuff did not start getting better until Lt. General Honore showed up.



Could the turning away have something to do with rescuers being shot at?????????????????



Trent Lott was talking about it. He said it was a bureaucratic snafu, not associated with any security related issues.



Yeah, like he was there and really has a clue.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:31:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
The primary blame lies with the governor, who refused President Bush's help. The mayor failed to execute the disaster plan which, among other things, said to use buses to evacuate the people. There were also significant failures at the FEMA level: FEMA turned away caravans of boat owners who wanted to help in the rescue effort, and during an interview I heard today, the reverend who travelled with President Bush said FEMA turned back a caravan of trucks carrying food. Stuff did not start getting better until Lt. General Honore showed up.



Could the turning away have something to do with rescuers being shot at?????????????????



Trent Lott was talking about it. He said it was a bureaucratic snafu, not associated with any security related issues.



Yeah, like he was there and really has a clue.



He WAS there.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:36:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 10:39:51 AM EDT by Grunteled]

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
being a horse guy was his last job before joining fema and spending several years handling several hurrican and flood disasters before his buddy left the job and said he was the best guy to replace him.

this was blatant anti-bush reporting from the media. they made it seem like this guy came in sunday from the arabian horse judging contest when in reality he has several years experience under his belt.

don't get me wrong, he fucked up royally and waited too fucking long before shifting his ass in gear and should be hung by his nads, but credit where credit is due. he was no cherry.

don't know if that makes it better or worse...



Same thing I had to tell my Libtard boss. I was a cook at Hardee's in 1996.... so what the fuck does that have to do with today? He's handled everything between then and now, and we still don't know that he screwed this up. I mean you can't see the truth of this thing for the piles of bullshit the media is pumping out.

- Bush broke the Levees
- Bush wants to kill balcks
- FEMA waited..... 5 hours to do "something"
- Bush destroyed the wetlands
- Bush built big oil that poisoned the water.
- Brown didn't have hookers ready for the Superdome
- Brown didn't personally fly people out with his super-cape.
- Brown did something else before he did this.
- Bush weakend the EPA so the chemicals were not stored right.
- Bush ate black peoples babies.
- Bush forced NO to use the Superdome to trap people in a flood.
- Brown sat in his chair and spun in circles while NO flooded.

Jesus, I can't fucking watch the news anymore. I consider them to be telling lies if their lips are moving. How anyone here can take anything they say at face value is amazing.
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