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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/5/2005 8:29:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 8:49:59 AM EDT by DoNotTreadOnMe]
Why do you guys think the Islam nations hate the USA so much?

Just read a speech by (rep) John Paul:

He seems to think the reason for all the Terriost Prolems is because of the US's foriegn policies:


http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr092501.htm

Sept 25, 2001

Ron Paul speech in the House of Representatives

Mr. Speaker:

Last week was a bad week for all Americans. The best we can say is that the events have rallied the American spirit of shared love and generosity. Partisanship was put on hold, as it well should have been. We now, as a free people, must deal with this tragedy in the best way possible. Punishment and prevention is mandatory. We must not, however, sacrifice our liberties at the hand of an irrational urgency. Calm deliberation in our effort to restore normalcy is crucial. Cries for dropping nuclear bombs on an enemy not yet identified cannot possibly help in achieving this goal.

Mr. Speaker, I returned to Congress 5 years ago out of deep concern about our foreign policy of international interventionism, and a monetary and fiscal policy I believed would lead to a financial and dollar crisis. Over the past 5 years I have frequently expressed my views on these issues and why I believed our policies should be changed.

This deep concern prompted me to seek and receive seats on the Financial Services and International Relations Committees. I sought to thwart some of the dangers I saw coming, but as the horrific attacks show, these efforts were to no avail. As concerned as I was, the enormity of the two-prong crisis that we now face came with a ferocity no one ever wanted to imagine. But now we must deal with what we have and do our best to restore our country to a more normal status.

I do not believe this can happen if we ignore the truth. We cannot close our eyes to the recent history that has brought us to this international crisis. We should guard against emotionally driven demands to kill many bystanders in an effort to liquidate our enemy. These efforts could well fail to punish the perpetrators while only expanding the war and making things worse by killing innocent non-combatants and further radicalizing Muslim peoples.

It is obviously no easy task to destroy an almost invisible, ubiquitous enemy spread throughout the world, without expanding the war or infringing on our liberties here at home. But above all else, that is our mandate and our key constitutional responsibility- protecting liberty and providing for national security. My strong belief is that in the past, efforts in the US Congress to do much more than this, have diverted our attention and hence led to our neglect of these responsibilities.

Following the September 11th disasters a militant Islamic group in Pakistan held up a sign for all the world to see. It said: AMERICANS, THINK! WHY YOU ARE HATED ALL OVER THE WORLD. We abhor the messenger, but we should not ignore the message.

Here at home we are told that the only reason for the suicidal mass killing we experienced on September 11th is that we are hated because we are free and prosperous. If these two conflicting views are not reconciled we cannot wisely fight nor win the war in which we now find ourselves. We must understand why the hatred is directed toward Americans and not other western countries.

In studying history, I, as many others, have come to the conclusion that war is most often fought for economic reasons. But economic wars are driven by moral and emotional overtones.

Our own revolution was fought to escape from excessive taxation but was inspired and driven by our desire to protect our God-given right to liberty.

The War between the States, fought primarily over tariffs, was nonetheless inspired by the abhorrence of slavery. It is this moral inspiration that drives people to suicidally fight to the death as so many Americans did between 1861 and 1865.

Both economic and moral causes of war must be understood. Ignoring the importance of each is dangerous. We should not casually ignore the root causes of our current fight nor pursue this fight by merely accepting the explanation that they terrorize us out of jealously.

It has already been written that Islamic militants are fighting a "holy war"- a jihad. This drives them to commit acts that to us are beyond comprehension. It seems that they have no concern for economic issues since they have no regard even for their own lives. But an economic issue does exist in this war: OIL!

When the conflict broke out between Iraq and Iran in the early 1980s and we helped to finance and arm Iraq, Anwar Sadat of Egypt profoundly stated: "This is the beginning of the war for oil." Our crisis today is part of this long lasting war over oil.

Osama bin Laden, a wealthy man, left Saudi Arabia in 1979 to join American- sponsored so-called freedom fighters in Afghanistan. He received financial assistance, weapons and training from our CIA, just as his allies in Kosovo continue to receive the same from us today.

Unbelievably, to this day our foreign aid continues to flow into Afghanistan, even as we prepare to go to war against her. My suggestion is, not only should we stop this aid immediately, but we should never have started it in the first place.

It is during this time bin Laden learned to practice terror; tragically, with money from the US taxpayers. But it wasn't until 1991 during what we refer to as the Persian Gulf War that he turned fully against the United States. It was this war, said to protect our oil that brought out the worst in him.

Of course, it isn't our oil. The oil in fact belongs to the Arabs and other Muslim nations of the Persian Gulf. Our military presence in Saudi Arabia is what most Muslims believe to be a sacred violation of holy land. The continuous bombing and embargo of Iraq, has intensified the hatred and contributed to more than over 1,000,000 deaths in Iraq. It is clear that protecting certain oil interests and our presence in the Persian Gulf help drive the holy war.

Muslims see this as an invasion and domination by a foreign enemy which inspires radicalism. This is not new. This war, from their viewpoint, has been going on since the Crusades 1000 year ago. We ignore this history at our own peril.

The radicals react as some Americans might react if China dominated the Gulf of Mexico and had air bases in Texas and Florida. Dominating the Persian Gulf is not a benign activity. It has consequences. The attack on the USS Cole was a warning we ignored.

Furthermore, our support for secular governments in the moderate Arab countries is interpreted by the radicals as more American control over their region than they want. There is no doubt that our policies that are seen by the radicals as favoring one faction over another in the long lasting Middle East conflict add to the distrust and hatred of America.

The hatred has been suppressed because we are a powerful economic and military force and wield a lot of influence. But this suppressed hatred is now becoming more visible and we as Americans for the most part are not even aware of how this could be. Americans have no animosity toward a people they hardly even know. Instead, our policies have been driven by the commercial interests of a few. And now the innocent suffer.

I am hopeful that shedding light on the truth will be helpful in resolving this conflict in the very dangerous period that lies ahead. Without some understanding of the recent and past history of the Middle East and the Persian Gulf we cannot expect to punish the evildoers without expanding the nightmare of hatred that is now sweeping the world.

Punishing the evildoers is crucial. Restoring safety and security to our country is critical. Providing for a strong defense is essential. But extricating ourselves from a holy war that we don't understand is also necessary if we expect to achieve the above-mentioned goals. Let us all hope and pray for guidance in our effort to restore the peace and tranquility we all desire.

We did a poor job in providing the security that all Americans should expect. This is our foremost responsibility. Some members have been quick to point out the shortcomings of the FBI, the CIA and the FAA and claim more money will rectify the situation. I'm not so sure. Bureaucracies by nature are inefficient. The FBI and CIA records come up short. The FBI loses computers and guns and is careless with records. The CIA rarely provides timely intelligence. The FAA's idea of security against hijackers is asking all passengers who packed their bag.

The clamor now is to give more authority and money to these agencies. But, remember, important industries like as our chemical plants and refineries do not depend on government agencies for security. They build fences and hire guards with guns. The airlines have not been allowed to do the same thing. There was a time when airline pilots were allowed and did carry weapons, and yet this has been prohibited by government regulation set to go into effect in November.

If the responsibility had been left with the airlines to provide safety they may have had armed pilots or guards on the planes just as our industrial sites have. Privatizing the FAA, as other countries have, would also give airlines more leeway in providing security. My bill, HR 2896, should be passed immediately to clarify that the federal government will never place a prohibition on pilots being armed.

We face an enormous task to restore the sense of security we have taken for granted for so long. But it can be done. Destroying the evildoers while extricating ourselves from this unholiest of wars is no small challenge. The job is somewhat like getting out of a pit filled with venomous snakes. The sooner we shoot the snakes that immediately threaten us, the sooner we can get safely away. If we're not careful though, we'll breed more snakes and they'll come out of every nook and cranny from around the world and little will be resolved.

It's no easy task, but before we fight we'd better be precise about whom we are fighting and how many there are and where they are hiding, or we'll never know when the war is over and our goals are achieved. Without this knowledge the war can go on for a long, long time, and the war for oil has already been going on for more than 20 years. To this point, our President and his administration have displayed the necessary deliberation. This is a positive change from unauthorized and ineffective retaliatory bombings in past years that only worsened various conflicts.

If we can't or won't define the enemy, the cost to fight such a war will be endless. How many American troops are we prepared to lose? How much money are we prepared to spend? How many innocent civilians, in our nation and others, are we willing to see killed? How many American civilians will we jeopardize? How much of our civil liberties are we prepared to give up? How much prosperity will we sacrifice?

The founders and authors of our Constitution provided an answer for the difficult tasks that we now face. When a precise declaration of war was impossible due to the vagueness of our enemy, the Congress was expected to take it upon themselves to direct the reprisal against an enemy not recognized as a government. In the early days the concern was piracy on the high seas. Piracy was one of only three federal crimes named in the original Constitution.

Today, we have a new type of deadly piracy, in the high sky over our country. The solution the founders came up with under these circumstances was for Congress to grant letters of marque and reprisal. This puts the responsibility in the hands of Congress to direct the President to perform a task with permission to use and reward private sources to carry out the task, such as the elimination of Osama bin Laden and his key supporters. This allows narrow targeting of the enemy. This effort would not preclude the president's other efforts to resolve the crisis, but if successful would preclude a foolish invasion of a remote country with a forbidding terrain like Afghanistan- a country that no foreign power has ever conquered throughout all of history.

Lives could be saved, billions of dollars could be saved, and escalation due to needless and senseless killing could be prevented. Mr. Speaker, we must seriously consider this option. This answer is a world apart from the potential disaster of launching nuclear weapons or endless bombing of an unseen target. "Marque and reprisal" demands the enemy be seen and precisely targeted with minimal danger to others. It should be considered and, for various reasons, is far superior to any effort that could be carried out by the CIA.

We must not sacrifice the civil liberties that generations of Americans have enjoyed and fought for over the past 225 years. Unwise decisions in response to the terror inflicted on us may well fail to destroy our enemy, while undermining our liberties here at home. That will not be a victory worth celebrating. The wise use of marque and reprisal would negate the need to undermine the privacy and rights of our citizens.

As we work through this difficult task, let us resist the temptation to invoke the most authoritarian of all notions that, not too many years ago, tore this nation apart; the military draft. The country is now unified against the enemy. The military draft does nothing to contribute to unity nor, as the Pentagon again has confirmed, does it promote an efficient military.

Precise identification of all travelers on all our air flights is a desired goal. A national ID issued by the federal government would prove to be disastrous to our civil liberties and should not be considered. This type of surveillance power should never be given to an intrusive overbearing government, no matter how well intentioned the motives.

The same results can be better achieved by the marketplace. Passenger IDs voluntarily issued by the airlines could be counterfeit-proof; and loss or theft of an ID could be immediately reported to the proper authorities. An ID, fingerprints, birth certificates, or any other information can be required without any violations of anyone's personal liberty. This delicate information would not be placed in the hands of the government agents but could be made available to law enforcement officers like any other information obtained with probable cause and a warrant.

The heat of the moment has prompted calls by some of our officials for great sacrifice of our liberties and privacy. This poses great danger to our way of life and will provide little help in dealing with our enemies. Efforts of this sort will only punish the innocent and have no effect on a would-be terrorist. We should be careful not to do something just to do something- even something harmful.

Mr. Speaker, I fear that some big mistakes could be made in the pursuit of our enemies if we do not proceed with great caution, wisdom, and deliberation. Action is necessary; inaction is unacceptable. No doubt others recognize the difficulty in targeting such an elusive enemy. This is why the principle behind "marque and reprisal" must be given serious consideration.

In retaliation, an unintended consequence of a policy of wanton destruction without benefit to our cause, could result in the overthrow of moderate Arab nations by the radicals that support bin Laden. This will not serve our interests and will surely exacerbate the threat to all Americans.

As we search for a solution to the mess we're in, it behooves us to look at how John F. Kennedy handled the Cuban missile crisis in 1962. Personally, that crisis led to a 5-year tour in the US Air Force for me.

As horrible and dangerous as the present crisis is, those of us that held our breath during some very tense moments that October realized that we were on the brink of a world-wide nuclear holocaust. That crisis represented the greatest potential danger to the world in all of human history.

President Kennedy held firm and stood up to the Soviets as he should have and the confrontation was resolved. What was not known at the time was the reassessment of our policy that placed nuclear missiles in the Soviet's back yard, in Turkey. These missiles were quietly removed a few months later and the world became a safer place in which to live. Eventually, we won the cold war without starting World War III.

Our enemy today, as formidable as he is, cannot compare to the armed might of the Soviet Union in the fall of 1962.

Wisdom and caution on Kennedy's part in dealing with the crisis was indeed "a profile in courage." But his courage was not only in his standing up to the Soviets, but his willingness to re-examine our nuclear missile presence in Turkey, which if it had been known at the time would have been condemned as an act of cowardice.

President Bush now has the challenge to do something equally courageous and wise. This is necessary if we expect to avert a catastrophic World War III. When the President asks for patience as he and his advisors deliberate, seeking a course of action, all Americans should surely heed his request.

Mr. Speaker, I support President Bush and voted for the authority and the money to carry out his responsibility to defend this country, but the degree of death and destruction and chances of escalation must be carefully taken into consideration.

It is only with sadness that I reflect on the support, the dollars, the troops, the weapons and training provided by US taxpayers that are now being used against us. Logic should tell us that intervening in all the wars of the world has been detrimental to our self-interest and should be reconsidered.

The efforts of a small minority in Congress to avoid this confrontation by voting for the foreign policy of George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and all the 19th century presidents went unheeded. The unwise policy of supporting so many militants who later became our armed enemies makes little sense whether it's bin Laden or Saddam Hussein. A policy designed to protect America is wise and frugal and hopefully it will once again be considered. George Washington, as we all know, advised strongly, as he departed his presidency, that we should avoid all entangling alliances with foreign nations.

The call for a non-interventionist foreign policy over past years has fallen on deaf ears. My suggestions made here today may meet the same fate. Yet, if truth is spoken, ignoring it will not negate it. In that case something will be lost. But, if something is said to be true and it is not and is ignored, nothing is lost. My goal is to contribute to the truth and to the security of this nation.

What I have said today is different from what is said and accepted in Washington as conventional wisdom, but it is not in conflict with our history or our constitution. It's a policy that has, whenever tried, generated more peace and prosperity than any other policy for dealing with foreign affairs. The authors of the Constitution clearly understood this. Since the light of truth shines brightest in the darkness of evil and ignorance, we should all strive to shine that light.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:31:26 AM EDT
They don't like us because we are not an islam dominated country. That is all.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:33:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
They don't like us because we are not an islam dominated country. That is all.



+1. And I don't like them either so we are even.


Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:40:03 AM EDT
But neither is Russia, China, Canada, all of South America, and Europe.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:41:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoNotTreadOnMe:
But neither is Russia, China, Canada, all of South America, and Europe.



They are next, of course they don't allow the freedoms that islam takes advantage of.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:41:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoNotTreadOnMe:
But neither is Russia, China, Canada, all of South America, and Europe.



They don't like those countries either. We aren't the only ones that have been attacked you know.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:41:40 AM EDT
Ihate long speeches
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:42:19 AM EDT
I don't want their adoration.

Their fear will do just fine.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:42:42 AM EDT
I agree with you... Im just taking a closer look.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:42:47 AM EDT

Because we are the only country that will back up Israel. That's why.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 9:01:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 9:05:02 AM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By DoNotTreadOnMe:
Just read a speech by (rep) John Paul:

He seems to think the reason for all the Terriost Prolems is because of the US's foriegn policies:
.
.
.
Our military presence in Saudi Arabia is what most Muslims believe to be a sacred violation of holy land. The continuous bombing and embargo of Iraq, has intensified the hatred and contributed to more than over 1,000,000 deaths in Iraq.
{What the FUCK!??}
It is clear that protecting certain oil interests and our presence in the Persian Gulf help drive the holy war.

Muslims see this as an invasion and domination by a foreign enemy which inspires radicalism. This is not new. This war, from their viewpoint, has been going on since the Crusades 1000 year ago. We ignore this history at our own peril.

<<< SNIP >>>


What a fucking idiot.

I mean what a first-rate, class-A, shitpacked-cranium fucking idiot.

WELL WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK WERE WERE IN SAUDI ARABIA AFTER 1991 IN THE FIRST PLACE YOU SHITHEAD!?!??

It was to PROTECT SAUDI ARABIA (AND THE OIL) FROM BEING OVERRUN BY SADDAM HUSSEIN!!!

Where were all these suicide-bombers, terrorists and radical jihadists when Saddam was invading Kuwait and massacring of over half a million people???

Where was the hysterical rantings in the Arab world about the genocidal slaughter in Iraq BEFORE 2003???

Why were there no suicide bombers flooding into Iraq from neighboring Arab lands during Saddam's reign when he was gassing some of his own entire villages???

If America had gassed whole villages or massacred over half a million Muslims in Iraq, would the Arab world have stood silent like they did for Saddam?

What about in Tehran, Beruit, Kuwait, Athens, Madrid, Egypt, Rome, Vienna, Germany, Scotland, Somalia, Manila, Paris, Philippines, Jordan, Ethiopia, Saudi Arabia, Kenya, Tanzania, Yemen, Netherlands, Belguim, New York, India, Afghanistan, Tunisia, Pakistan, Bali, Singapore, Moscow, London or Israel prior to 2003? I guess all that doesn't matter. Worldwide Islamic terrorism started March 19, 2003. It's all the Bush's fault.

All of the focus on how the war in Iraq has "radicalized" more Arab terrorists is foolish, myopic and counterproductive because it presents the effects of the war from a blinded vantage point - that being the assumption that terrorists actually CARE about peace in Iraq (or any other Muslim land).

Well they DON'T.

The mullahs and clerics are simply using Iraq as yet ANOTHER false excuse in a long line of false excuses to call Muslims to commit the most violent, murderous, heinous and unexcusable of acts against innocent civilians.


For years these maniacally-insane Muslim "religious" leaders used the "plight of the Palestinians" or the "infidel Americans" stationed in Saudi Arabia to whip up support for their illegitimate "jihads" against Israel and those who support her.

But now that Yassir Afatrat is dead and the Palestinian leaders are not so keen on promoting terrorism for their sake, the radical Islamofascists screeching their hatred inside their Mosques needed to find a NEW cause to call weak-minded fools to strap bombs to themselves or blow up innocent civilians.

The war in Iraq did not foment new hatred among more terrorists - that hatred was always there. Only now they have a target land larger than Israel, namely Iraq and all the nations trying to establish a non-dictatorial, democratic government there.

These terrorists don't care one whit about the "plight of the Iraqis" - just like they never cared about the "plight of the Palestinians". It was all just an excuse to wage their jihad for their own warped agenda to spread Islam and erase Israel. The mullahs and clerics preaching murder from the Mosques don't care about peace in Iraq, they only care about finding the best excuse to convince their followers to strap bombs to themselves or blow up streetside gatherings of innocent civilians.

Denigrating America's, Britain's and the rest of those nations' efforts in overthrowing Saddam does FAR more to encourage and embolden more terrorism than overthrowing Saddam in the first place.

The blood of innocents by all these "new" terrorists is splattered far more on the hands of the head-in-the-sand ignoramuses and terrorist-apologists like THIS nitwit who continue to embolden them than any found on GWBush or Tony Blair's hands.


Ron Paul is a fucking self-serving moron who wouldn't know an intelligent response to terrorism if it hit him right between his abnormally wide-spaced eyes.


Link Posted: 8/5/2005 9:21:50 AM EDT
They hate us because we are so rich, even the "poor" people in the U.S. are fat, have cars and a color TV. That's not poor in the rest of the world.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 11:49:52 PM EDT
They hate the USA because their religious and political leaders tell them they are better, but their surrounding say otherwise. They hate the USA because they must deny their own inferiority.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 12:01:22 AM EDT
"Muslims see this as an invasion and domination by a foreign enemy which inspires radicalism. This is not new. This war, from their viewpoint, has been going on since the Crusades 1000 year ago. We ignore this history at our own peril."

This sentence is the key. Radical Muslims have been at war with us for 1,000 years. Whatever we do with foreign policy or corporate investments doesn't matter at all. Even if we did everything that "they" wished, they'd still hate us and continue to wage their war.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 12:05:15 AM EDT
they hate us because they do not know better
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 12:06:09 AM EDT
tag to read later
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 12:11:28 AM EDT
They hate us because they need someone to hate to keep getting recruits. It is what keeps them in power, just like the Nazis.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 12:18:41 AM EDT
Bacon and pulled pork
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 12:28:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By zoe17:
they hate us because they do not know better


Pretty much sums it up... From the day they are born they are told by their governments how horrible we are, If told something your entire life you will belive it. It has little to do with Allah, it has to do with control of the populace. What easier way to do so than to make your self seem an equal in a noble fight in the name of Allah.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 12:49:23 AM EDT
The Islamists have a saying, "First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people."

Why do they hate us? Because we're not Islamists. (And, I think, secondarily, because they refuse to accept responsibility for their failed society.)

Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:12:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 1:15:30 AM EDT by Stottman]
US Policy in the region does not excuse their actions, but it doesnt help.. All the US does is fuel their propaganda machine.

The US supports Israel, which angers them.. Since I dont listen to bedtime stories about the "Chosen people", I look at it a little more objectively. The Jews left like 2000 years ago, then show back up one day and take land by force. Wouldnt you be pissed?

US involement in the region, and the invasion of Iraq-. If the Chinese started to show up, invaded Canada to install a puppet Gov't, all the other local leaders started to kiss their ass, etc wouldnt you be mad? Based on all the people on this board, 1/3 of you would be on the first bus to Canada to fight the evil savages.

Though they are not pissed by it, the US still continues to support whatever King, dicator or whatever is in power. The one independent sort of "democracy" in the region is Iran. Oh yeah, they dont like us either, as in the 1950s we did a regime change there and replaced their democracy with another dictator (Shah). Having a dictator that wastes all the Nations money on himself doesnt exactly help the nation develop.

I say let them be.

Again, I cant excuse the killing of woman and children, but can sort of understand why they would be pissed. Yes, they still hate us because we are non-muslim but what we do doesnt help the situation.

Edited for spelling.



Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:20:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:
US Policy in the region does not excuse their actions, but it doesnt help.. All the US does is fuel their propaganda machine.

The US supports Israel, which angers them.. Since I dont listen to bedtime stories about the "Chosen people", I look at it a little more objectively. The Jews left like 2000 years ago, then show back up one day and take land by force. Wouldnt you be pissed?

US involement in the region, and the invasion of Iraq-. If the Chinese started to show up, invaded Canada to install a puppet Gov't, all the other local leaders started to kiss their ass, etc wouldnt you be mad? Based on all the people on this board, 1/3 of you would be on the first bus to Canada to fight the evil savages.

Though they are not pissed by it, the US still continues to support whatever King, dicator or whatever is in power. The one independent sort of "democracy" in the region is Iran. Oh yeah, they dont like us either, as in the 1950s we did a regime change there and replaced their democracy with another dictator (Shah). Having a dictator that wastes all the Nations money on himself doesnt exactly help the nation develop.

I say let them be.

Again, I cant excuse the killing of woman and children, but can sort of understand why they would be pissed. Yes, they still hate us because we are non-muslim but what we do doesnt help the situation.

Edited for spelling.






Do you think if the U.S. did not subsidize Israel and defend Israel and stayed out for Middle East affairs, that 911 would have happened?
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:26:25 PM EDT

They hate the USA because their religious and political leaders tell them they are better, but their surrounding say otherwise. They hate the USA because they must deny their own inferiority.




Give the man a cigar.....
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:28:07 PM EDT
When did the USA start having a problem with the Middle EAstern Muslims? How long has it been goin on?
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:28:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 3:55:45 PM EDT by LARRYG]
I really don't care why the hate us nor do I care whether they hate us or not.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:34:48 PM EDT
They hate us because we are infidels with the nerve to pass our own set of laws. They claim Mohammed and the Islamic religion should be the only law. Oh yea they say we are corrupting Saudi Arabia. Either submit to Islam or die. No kidding thats what the radicals believe.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:46:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 12:46:59 PM EDT by skid2964]
.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:47:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 12:49:32 PM EDT by LWilde]
This guy is an ignorant, bedwetting, panties-in-a-bunch TOOL!

This is the fucking reason the Islamfacists...and for that matter MOST OF THE MUSLIM WORLD hate us: The Roots of Muslim Rage

WAKE THE FUCK UP AMERICA!!! IT IS NOT BUSH'S FAULT...IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT...IT IS NOT AMERICA'S FAULT!!!

The people of Islam, the true believers, are caught in a death spiral! They can NOT live in peace with the technocratic world. Because of the teachings of Islam, they can't adapt to the changing world around them so they fall farther and farther behind. They can't live cheek-by-jowl with Christians or Jews, or any "non-believer" for that matter. They can't modernize. They can't be good neighbors. Fully one half of their population can't even enter the work force and contribute to their well being...since they must remain behind the veil.

ALL THEY CAN DO IS CONQUER, ENSLAVE, CONVERT OR KILL!!!

DO YOU GET IT NOW...DO YOU???


Jesus H. Christ, I am getting tired of being such a pedantic asshole about this shit!!! Don't any of you READ any more? Get yourselves to the library and read some Qu'ran. Read some of Dr. Bernard Lewis' works on the rise and fall of Islam. Read "The Haj" by Leon Uris.

I taught some of these people...I KNOW them. Trust me...this is a fight to the death. We ARE in a 21st Century Crusade.

The info is out there...when you LEARN what we are up against, you will be angered and DAMN scared, because like the Kamikaze, these people do not recognize defeat...only victory or death. We are in a very dangerous assymetric war now with an implacable enemy who's only goal is to kill as many of us as they can, and win by weakening our resolve. In this effort, they have many willing accomplices right here in America! We are ALL at risk and our greatest risk now is from OUR OWN FUCKING LIBERALS!!



How easily we forget 9/11

Link Posted: 8/9/2005 12:49:29 PM EDT
They don't like us because of our environmental policies and the fact that Bush is president.

...According to the liberals.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 3:36:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LWilde:
This guy is an ignorant, bedwetting, panties-in-a-bunch TOOL!

This is the fucking reason the Islamfacists...and for that matter MOST OF THE MUSLIM WORLD hate us: The Roots of Muslim Rage

WAKE THE FUCK UP AMERICA!!! IT IS NOT BUSH'S FAULT...IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT...IT IS NOT AMERICA'S FAULT!!!

The people of Islam, the true believers, are caught in a death spiral! They can NOT live in peace with the technocratic world. Because of the teachings of Islam, they can't adapt to the changing world around them so they fall farther and farther behind. They can't live cheek-by-jowl with Christians or Jews, or any "non-believer" for that matter. They can't modernize. They can't be good neighbors. Fully one half of their population can't even enter the work force and contribute to their well being...since they must remain behind the veil.

ALL THEY CAN DO IS CONQUER, ENSLAVE, CONVERT OR KILL!!!

DO YOU GET IT NOW...DO YOU???


Jesus H. Christ, I am getting tired of being such a pedantic asshole about this shit!!! Don't any of you READ any more? Get yourselves to the library and read some Qu'ran. Read some of Dr. Bernard Lewis' works on the rise and fall of Islam. Read "The Haj" by Leon Uris.

I taught some of these people...I KNOW them. Trust me...this is a fight to the death. We ARE in a 21st Century Crusade.

The info is out there...when you LEARN what we are up against, you will be angered and DAMN scared, because like the Kamikaze, these people do not recognize defeat...only victory or death. We are in a very dangerous assymetric war now with an implacable enemy who's only goal is to kill as many of us as they can, and win by weakening our resolve. In this effort, they have many willing accomplices right here in America! We are ALL at risk and our greatest risk now is from OUR OWN FUCKING LIBERALS!!



How easily we forget 9/11


Uhhhhhh...



Hmmmm.....



Soooooo.... what are you trying to say here?

Link Posted: 8/9/2005 3:39:33 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 3:46:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:
US Policy in the region does not excuse their actions, but it doesnt help.. All the US does is fuel their propaganda machine.

The US supports Israel, which angers them.. Since I dont listen to bedtime stories about the "Chosen people", I look at it a little more objectively. The Jews left like 2000 years ago, then show back up one day and take land by force. Wouldnt you be pissed?

US involement in the region, and the invasion of Iraq-. If the Chinese started to show up, invaded Canada to install a puppet Gov't, all the other local leaders started to kiss their ass, etc wouldnt you be mad? Based on all the people on this board, 1/3 of you would be on the first bus to Canada to fight the evil savages.

Though they are not pissed by it, the US still continues to support whatever King, dicator or whatever is in power. The one independent sort of "democracy" in the region is Iran. Oh yeah, they dont like us either, as in the 1950s we did a regime change there and replaced their democracy with another dictator (Shah). Having a dictator that wastes all the Nations money on himself doesnt exactly help the nation develop.

I say let them be.

Again, I cant excuse the killing of woman and children, but can sort of understand why they would be pissed. Yes, they still hate us because we are non-muslim but what we do doesnt help the situation.

Edited for spelling.






Your China/Canada analogy doesn't hold water. Last time I checked, Canada wasn't a dictatorship that was butchering it's own populous and waging wars on it's neighbors. Since Canada is a free nation with a freely elected government of their own choosing, you bet people would be going northward to help defend it as they should.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 3:55:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 3:59:05 PM EDT by Jack19]

Originally Posted By LWilde:
This guy is an ignorant, bedwetting, panties-in-a-bunch TOOL!

This is the fucking reason the Islamfacists...and for that matter MOST OF THE MUSLIM WORLD hate us: The Roots of Muslim Rage

WAKE THE FUCK UP AMERICA!!! IT IS NOT BUSH'S FAULT...IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT...IT IS NOT AMERICA'S FAULT!!!

The people of Islam, the true believers, are caught in a death spiral! They can NOT live in peace with the technocratic world. Because of the teachings of Islam, they can't adapt to the changing world around them so they fall farther and farther behind. They can't live cheek-by-jowl with Christians or Jews, or any "non-believer" for that matter. They can't modernize. They can't be good neighbors. Fully one half of their population can't even enter the work force and contribute to their well being...since they must remain behind the veil.

ALL THEY CAN DO IS CONQUER, ENSLAVE, CONVERT OR KILL!!!

DO YOU GET IT NOW...DO YOU???


Jesus H. Christ, I am getting tired of being such a pedantic asshole about this shit!!! Don't any of you READ any more? Get yourselves to the library and read some Qu'ran. Read some of Dr. Bernard Lewis' works on the rise and fall of Islam. Read "The Haj" by Leon Uris.

I taught some of these people...I KNOW them. Trust me...this is a fight to the death. We ARE in a 21st Century Crusade.

The info is out there...when you LEARN what we are up against, you will be angered and DAMN scared, because like the Kamikaze, these people do not recognize defeat...only victory or death. We are in a very dangerous assymetric war now with an implacable enemy who's only goal is to kill as many of us as they can, and win by weakening our resolve. In this effort, they have many willing accomplices right here in America! We are ALL at risk and our greatest risk now is from OUR OWN FUCKING LIBERALS!!



How easily we forget 9/11



Well put. And it's all true.

For those of you who don't beleive that the Islamists would ever do you any harm....go here and watch the ME TV broadcasts MEMRI
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 3:56:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LWilde:
This guy is an ignorant, bedwetting, panties-in-a-bunch TOOL!

This is the fucking reason the Islamfacists...and for that matter MOST OF THE MUSLIM WORLD hate us: The Roots of Muslim Rage

WAKE THE FUCK UP AMERICA!!! IT IS NOT BUSH'S FAULT...IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT...IT IS NOT AMERICA'S FAULT!!!

The people of Islam, the true believers, are caught in a death spiral! They can NOT live in peace with the technocratic world. Because of the teachings of Islam, they can't adapt to the changing world around them so they fall farther and farther behind. They can't live cheek-by-jowl with Christians or Jews, or any "non-believer" for that matter. They can't modernize. They can't be good neighbors. Fully one half of their population can't even enter the work force and contribute to their well being...since they must remain behind the veil.

ALL THEY CAN DO IS CONQUER, ENSLAVE, CONVERT OR KILL!!!

DO YOU GET IT NOW...DO YOU???


Jesus H. Christ, I am getting tired of being such a pedantic asshole about this shit!!! Don't any of you READ any more? Get yourselves to the library and read some Qu'ran. Read some of Dr. Bernard Lewis' works on the rise and fall of Islam. Read "The Haj" by Leon Uris.

I taught some of these people...I KNOW them. Trust me...this is a fight to the death. We ARE in a 21st Century Crusade.

The info is out there...when you LEARN what we are up against, you will be angered and DAMN scared, because like the Kamikaze, these people do not recognize defeat...only victory or death. We are in a very dangerous assymetric war now with an implacable enemy who's only goal is to kill as many of us as they can, and win by weakening our resolve. In this effort, they have many willing accomplices right here in America! We are ALL at risk and our greatest risk now is from OUR OWN FUCKING LIBERALS!!



How easily we forget 9/11




Well said. Some people just can't imagine that other people would ever want to harm them. Its not like they have personally ever done anything to the Muslim extremest. We do have a fifth column in this country right now and it is the liberal mainstream press. Whether we win this war remains to be seen.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 4:04:26 PM EDT
I'm gonna go get a pork BBQ, take some time off from this thread, and dream of mushroom clouds over islam's "unholy sites"...
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 4:24:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By LWilde:
This guy is an ignorant, bedwetting, panties-in-a-bunch TOOL!

This is the fucking reason the Islamfacists...and for that matter MOST OF THE MUSLIM WORLD hate us: The Roots of Muslim Rage

WAKE THE FUCK UP AMERICA!!! IT IS NOT BUSH'S FAULT...IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT...IT IS NOT AMERICA'S FAULT!!!

The people of Islam, the true believers, are caught in a death spiral! They can NOT live in peace with the technocratic world. Because of the teachings of Islam, they can't adapt to the changing world around them so they fall farther and farther behind. They can't live cheek-by-jowl with Christians or Jews, or any "non-believer" for that matter. They can't modernize. They can't be good neighbors. Fully one half of their population can't even enter the work force and contribute to their well being...since they must remain behind the veil.

ALL THEY CAN DO IS CONQUER, ENSLAVE, CONVERT OR KILL!!!

DO YOU GET IT NOW...DO YOU???


Jesus H. Christ, I am getting tired of being such a pedantic asshole about this shit!!! Don't any of you READ any more? Get yourselves to the library and read some Qu'ran. Read some of Dr. Bernard Lewis' works on the rise and fall of Islam. Read "The Haj" by Leon Uris.

I taught some of these people...I KNOW them. Trust me...this is a fight to the death. We ARE in a 21st Century Crusade.

The info is out there...when you LEARN what we are up against, you will be angered and DAMN scared, because like the Kamikaze, these people do not recognize defeat...only victory or death. We are in a very dangerous assymetric war now with an implacable enemy who's only goal is to kill as many of us as they can, and win by weakening our resolve. In this effort, they have many willing accomplices right here in America! We are ALL at risk and our greatest risk now is from OUR OWN FUCKING LIBERALS!!



How easily we forget 9/11


Uhhhhhh...



Hmmmm.....



Soooooo.... what are you trying to say here?




I'm very concerned that my fellow citizens still in their deep somnolence, fail to recognize the clear and present danger to all of our lives...to our Constitution; to our very existence.

I work with some pretty bright folks; scientists, engineers, other staff. I like and respect virtually all of them...BUT, far too many are unconnected with the real world. I am simply amazed at the incredible level of ignorance about the threat among so many of my colleagues. This does not include of course the few libs I know or the assholes in the media.

I had a conversation today with a young assistant of mine. She is totally wrapped up in her life...her impending marriage, and her new home. Her concerns do NOT include war. She is totally out of touch. I posed some questions and scenarios about the war and a possible attack on our homeland. She basically had no clue what to do...hell, she didn't ever recognize a threat. Sweet kid...but totally unaware that there really are people who want to kill her, her fiance, her folks, ALL OF US! She asked, "Why? What did we ever do to them?"

I'm a Vietnam vet. We lost that war at home. The ONLY way we lose this war is if we permit our foreign and domestic enemies to prevail. IF we do not win, when Iran or another Islamofacist state or organization acquires a nuclear weapon, they will use it here. To most westerners, a suicide attack just doesn't compute. Most folks fail to grasp the ease with which true believers are willing to immolate themselves in fiery armageddon in the name of Allah. If you fail to understand your enemy, you are doomed.
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