Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/14/2005 8:02:08 AM EDT
If a AK with a shoe-string is a machine-gun, and it is illegal to be in possession of the parts of a machine-gun or a firearm that is "readily-convertable" to a machine-gun, then shouldn't it be illegal to wear shoes while shooting your AK?


Either the conclusion is wrong, or one or both of the premises are fucked up. The ATF sucks.

<­BR>BTW:

I don't own or even like AKs all that much, I don't have any desire to do anything that is now erroneously considered illegal, I just think it is FUCKING STUPID.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:03:24 AM EDT
ATF needs to be a convenience store, as said many times before.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:06:18 AM EDT
The North Vietnamese found long ago that sandals are good to wear while toting AK's around, and that leaves the ATF with nothing to bitch about.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:09:45 AM EDT
The ATF pisses everybody off.
It's in their mission statement.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:14:28 AM EDT
It's better to be pissed off then pissed on.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:22:11 AM EDT
Alcohol - Legal
Tobacco - Legal
Firearms - Legal

WTF is the point of this agency as LE anyway. Move their ass back to the treasury department, if you don't eliminate them outright. Since all have taxes they should really just be a department of the IRS (thus making one agency responsible for all taxes)

Of course if they were under the IRS they might be REALLY dangerous...IRS can find anyone.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:25:14 AM EDT
I have a Vepr (RPK, which is similar to the AK) and I like it very much. It kicks a tad harder than the AR-15, the accuracy isn't sub-MOA, but it gets the job done.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:33:03 AM EDT
Yeah...

Why all of a sudden are import parts kits banned from future importation? And who decided it? Certainly no one voted one way or the other - just the secret Star Chamber. The decision was made and out of the dark room was passed the order of the day.

Again, The Constitution wasn't mean't to allow this....
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:37:12 AM EDT
ATF is a rogue government agency with unchecked powers. They fundamentally threaten the very foundation of freedom and democracy in America.

THAT is why ATF pisses me off.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:27:18 AM EDT
Who the heck works at the BATF anyway? They have to hire people with military/LEO background so I can't figure out why you would still work there to enforce stupid regulations.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:31:39 AM EDT
How do they justify their existence? I mean, where does it state that the Federal Gov. can have it's own police agnecies?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:40:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 3rdStreet:
It's better to be pissed off then pissed on.


although some people do look better underwater!
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 12:20:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 12:21:34 PM EDT by EternalVigilance]

Originally Posted By p331083:
How do they justify their existence? I mean, where does it state that the Federal Gov. can have it's own police agnecies?




You are forgetting that something you build or modify in your garage, purchase from a manufacturer in your state, or sits in your gun safe in YOUR home is apparently "interstate commerce".


I see the future of our country. I see a supreme court ruling in favor of our nobles that "Prima Nocta" falls under "interstate commerce". I see people voting from the rooftops with their BB guns.



Link Posted: 9/14/2005 12:45:53 PM EDT
The ATF was, until recently, an arm of the IRS, not a law enforcement organization like the FBI or the US Marshall’s service.

Their mission in life was to collect taxes and enforce tax laws on tobacco, booze and guns.

Who knows what the hell their mission is now.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 12:51:04 PM EDT



the ATF pisses me off because its' existence directly conflicts the 2nd ammend.



Link Posted: 9/14/2005 1:11:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:
If a AK with a shoe-string is a machine-gun, ....




When was this decided?
Is this no different than other trigger actuators?
Using the shoe-string method still requires that the trigger be pulled once for each shot.

I do know htat some states have passed laws making trigger actuators illegal. This isn't the ATF, though.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 1:29:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HBruns:

Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:
If a AK with a shoe-string is a machine-gun, ....




When was this decided?
Is this no different than other trigger actuators?
Using the shoe-string method still requires that the trigger be pulled once for each shot.

I do know htat some states have passed laws making trigger actuators illegal. This isn't the ATF, though.



Hey - don't ask the ATF to be consistent.
For 16 years, importing AK parts kits into the US was ok.
Abra-cadabra - now it's not!
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:44:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 2:48:25 PM EDT by DaveS]
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:56:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:
If a AK with a shoe-string is a machine-gun, and it is illegal to be in possession of the parts of a machine-gun or a firearm that is "readily-convertable" to a machine-gun, then shouldn't it be illegal to wear shoes while shooting your AK?


Either the conclusion is wrong, or one or both of the premises are fucked up. The ATF sucks.

<­BR>BTW:

I don't own or even like AKs all that much, I don't have any desire to do anything that is now erroneously considered illegal, I just think it is FUCKING STUPID.



How does this work anyway?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:41:30 PM EDT
ATF-abolish the agency. Increase the manpower of the FBI. Let them handle enforcing the law.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:11:42 AM EDT
For those asking about the string do a search on ATF. You will find a few threads about it. Somebody figured out how to rig a string to the bolt latch (whatever its called I don't know I dont have AKs) and to the trigger so that evertime the bolt closed the trigger would get pulled apparently. Anyway, this person is now in club fed.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:31:39 AM EDT
You think the ATF is vague and arbitrary?



Cal DOJ WROTE the ATF's playbook......
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:39:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BlammO:
ATF is a rogue government agency with unchecked powers. They fundamentally threaten the very foundation of freedom and democracy in America.

THAT is why ATF pisses me off.



Very well said.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 10:18:08 AM EDT
In essence, the string became the new trigger. So it was a MG, since the weapon would continue to fire until you let go of the string. No different than actuating a solenoid in the trigger guard. If you've seen the shoestring MG, you'll know exactly what I mean.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 10:21:39 AM EDT
agreed, but the point is that it is ridiculous to prosecute people for having non-assembled parts, especially if they require modification to be installed. The whole "readily convertible" thing. The shoe-string deal shows this, because it would be really fucked up to prosecute someone for being in possession of a civilian semi-auto AK and a pair of tennis shoes. It demonstrates the absurdity of their bullshit.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 10:33:52 AM EDT
It's all in the scope of constructive intent. If I'm Special Agent Johnny Wishbone, BATFE, and I find someone who built an AK kit into a rifle, and used compliance parts, but still had the original FA FCG around, would I view that a an MG? Probably not. On the other hand, if I found someone withan M16 FCG, BC, and a section hacksaw in a little baggie withn their AR's, I would have to consider that intent.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 11:42:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MisterPX:
It's all in the scope of constructive intent. If I'm Special Agent Johnny Wishbone, BATFE, and I find someone who built an AK kit into a rifle, and used compliance parts, but still had the original FA FCG around, would I view that a an MG? Probably not. On the other hand, if I found someone withan M16 FCG, BC, and a section hacksaw in a little baggie withn their AR's, I would have to consider that intent.



Yep. And the funny thing is the "intent" (if there even is one) is to exercise your constitutionally protected right in the first place. Yet they'll still murder your family or burn you alive if you resist their attempt to deny you that right.

ATF should be disbanded by whatever means necessary.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 11:47:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MisterPX:
It's all in the scope of constructive intent. If I'm Special Agent Johnny Wishbone, BATFE, and I find someone who built an AK kit into a rifle, and used compliance parts, but still had the original FA FCG around, would I view that a an MG? Probably not. On the other hand, if I found someone withan M16 FCG, BC, and a section hacksaw in a little baggie withn their AR's, I would have to consider that intent.





sounds pretty damn subjective to me. Justice and law isn't supposed to be subjective.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 11:51:58 AM EDT
The problem is that the ATF (like the IRS) is given broad power to legislate when a law says:

"... and whatever measures xxx agency/person deems necessary in the execution of this law."


And good luck applying judicial review to their rulings. You may only sue the government if the government decides you may.
Top Top