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Posted: 9/18/2009 6:44:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 6:51:14 AM EST by PaoloAR15]
This morning I was reading a free newspaper in the subway to work when my attention was caught by a little article with a small pic portraying an M4 rifle.

In a central area of Rome, Italy, the police stopped a man in a car and seized what, at first glance, looked like an assault rifle M4.

This happened because the man was in the car, parked somewhere, with this rifle clearly visible in the rear seat. Someone got scared and called the police.

The M4 resulted to be a SOFTAIR and not a real gun. Anyway he will pass some troubles and possibily will be prosecuted for "procuring social alarm" (in Italy such a thing is a crime...), since the gun was undistiguishable from a real one.

In these times, with all the problems we gun owners are having with guns that have martial aspects, stupid people with softairs can trigger decisions against both airsoft owners and real gun owners, while gun owners are already keeping a very low profile and not to keep authority attentions.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 6:47:33 AM EST
There are some morons out there.

I've heard a few stories from people carrying concealed weapons that almost fired at some kids because the kids ambushed them with airsoft rifles.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 6:51:15 AM EST
Gun owners shouldn't have to keep a low profile.

Stop treating RKBA like it has to be hidden behind closed doors maybe?
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 6:51:25 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 6:52:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 6:53:38 AM EST by stockshift]
Paolo, it has been years since I have been to Rome but do you guys have the requirement that Airsoft guns have a red muzzle to distinguish them from the real thing?

People wonder why I left the red muzzle on my KWA gas blowback G19 .... no it doesn't look cool but it tends to prevent situations like the one you describe!
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 6:53:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
In all honesty: It's people who are such sheeple that they get scared anytime they see a gun.

I was thinking about this when my wife and I were sitting in a diner and a couple of local cops came in to get some breakfast. Typical cops, wearing side arms. Now NOBODY looks twice at cops when they open carry, so why are they so freaked out if they were to see a private citizen doing the same? The cops are no better or worse than anyone else; they simply have a job that more or less requires them to carry guns. Why would your average law-abiding citizen carrying a gun cause such fear among the general population?

Just a little rant of my own...


+1
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 6:56:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
In all honesty: It's people who are such sheeple that they get scared anytime they see a gun.

I was thinking about this when my wife and I were sitting in a diner and a couple of local cops came in to get some breakfast. Typical cops, wearing side arms. Now NOBODY looks twice at cops when they open carry, so why are they so freaked out if they were to see a private citizen doing the same? The cops are no better or worse than anyone else; they simply have a job that more or less requires them to carry guns. Why would your average law-abiding citizen carrying a gun cause such fear among the general population?

Just a little rant of my own...


Because people look at a uniform and see a vetting process.

People look at Joe Citizen and see Joe Citizen.


There's a lot of people out there who are scared as hell that another person can posess an instrument which can hurt them without going through mountains of training and background checks.

And yet they all drive...


It's not supposed to make sense, that's why it's an irrational fear.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 6:57:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Why would your average law-abiding citizen carrying a gun cause such fear among the general population?

Just a little rant of my own...



Well common perception of an armed policeman is DIFFERENT from the perception of an unknown civilian also armed.

The keyword is "roleplaying": when you see a uniform the role the armed man is playing is clear. In a democratic (in the sense of "We the People..." and NOT of the political party...) country like yours a policeman fit more the role of "protect and serve" rather than "harass and kill" of some uniformed men of the past.

An armed civilian is a question mark for other people, that's why scares people.

In Italy you are requested to carry concealed only, if you are a civilian. With one exception: if you are on duty as uniformed private guard (in italian are called GPG...). The gun permit is THE SAME and BOTH are civilians.

The perception is different because the uniform make people immediately to recognize the role.


Link Posted: 9/18/2009 6:58:06 AM EST
We need to bring back more and more realistic toy guns.

When I was a kid nobody freaked out about just the thought of a gun and we all had realistic looking toys.

Now, where's my full size all black motorized Uzi water gun?
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 6:58:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
In all honesty: It's people who are such sheeple that they get scared anytime they see a gun.

I was thinking about this when my wife and I were sitting in a diner and a couple of local cops came in to get some breakfast. Typical cops, wearing side arms. Now NOBODY looks twice at cops when they open carry, so why are they so freaked out if they were to see a private citizen doing the same? The cops are no better or worse than anyone else; they simply have a job that more or less requires them to carry guns. Why would your average law-abiding citizen carrying a gun cause such fear among the general population?

Just a little rant of my own...


Because people look at a uniform and see a vetting process.

People look at Joe Citizen and see Joe Citizen.


There's a lot of people out there who are scared as hell that another person can posess an instrument which can hurt them without going through mountains of training and background checks.

And yet they all drive...


It's not supposed to make sense, that's why it's an irrational fear.


I think it's funny that people think police have extensive firearms training.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 6:59:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By stockshift:
Paolo, it has been years since I have been to Rome but do you guys have the requirement that Airsoft guns have a red muzzle to distinguish them from the real thing?

People wonder why I left the red muzzle on my KWA gas blowback G19 .... no it doesn't look cool but it tends to prevent situations like the one you describe!


The obligation is set by law for MANUFACTURERS ONLY. As user you can remove it. But this doing you should be aware that you must handle your softair replica like it was a real gun. Many people here just don't get it...


Link Posted: 9/18/2009 6:59:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 7:02:39 AM EST by Zhukov]
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 6:59:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 7:01:17 AM EST by CRC]
What are the airsoft laws in Italy? Nevermind they have been posted

What this person did was probably foolish (but not totally illegal according to your post).

If this was the US most likely the car would have been broken into and the gun stolen (airsoft or not)

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 7:01:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By PaoloAR15:
This morning I was reading a free newspaper in the subway to work when my attention was caught by a little article with a small pic portraying an M4 rifle.

In a central area of Rome, Italy, the police stopped a man in a car and seized what, at first glance, looked like an assault rifle M4.

This happened because the man was in the car, parked somewhere, with this rifle clearly visible in the rear seat. Someone got scared and called the police.

The M4 resulted to be a SOFTAIR and not a real gun. Anyway he will pass some troubles and possibly will be prosecuted for "procuring social alarm" (in Italy such a thing is a crime...), since the gun was undistinguished from a real one.

In these times, with all the problems we gun owners are having with guns that have martial aspects, stupid people with softairs can trigger decisions against both airsoft owners and real gun owners, while gun owners are already keeping a very low profile and not to keep authority attentions.
The last time I was in San Marino there were lots of souvenir shops selling airsoft guns.

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 7:01:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By AngeredKabar:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
In all honesty: It's people who are such sheeple that they get scared anytime they see a gun.

I was thinking about this when my wife and I were sitting in a diner and a couple of local cops came in to get some breakfast. Typical cops, wearing side arms. Now NOBODY looks twice at cops when they open carry, so why are they so freaked out if they were to see a private citizen doing the same? The cops are no better or worse than anyone else; they simply have a job that more or less requires them to carry guns. Why would your average law-abiding citizen carrying a gun cause such fear among the general population?

Just a little rant of my own...


Because people look at a uniform and see a vetting process.

People look at Joe Citizen and see Joe Citizen.


There's a lot of people out there who are scared as hell that another person can posess an instrument which can hurt them without going through mountains of training and background checks.

And yet they all drive...


It's not supposed to make sense, that's why it's an irrational fear.


I think it's funny that people think police have extensive firearms training.


Seriously, one week in the academy, and MAYBE two-three days a year, if they're lucky. We used to hit the range 4 times a year, by the time I retired, we were down to 2, only because the State required 2.

Most cops don't know guns as well as they think. One Sergeant charged a guy with violating the Assault Weapon Ban (NJ), because he couldn't tell the difference between and AK and an SKS.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 7:03:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Believe me - I understand the mindset, and I certainly wasn't expecting open carry to cause anything but abject terror anywhere in Europe.


Try with an M4 softair replica with metal receiver and no muzzle red cap to get inside a supermarket in NY or Los Angeles and see how fast you will get your ass bitten by the local SWAT...


Link Posted: 9/18/2009 7:07:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By stockshift:
Paolo, it has been years since I have been to Rome but do you guys have the requirement that Airsoft guns have a red muzzle to distinguish them from the real thing?

People wonder why I left the red muzzle on my KWA gas blowback G19 .... no it doesn't look cool but it tends to prevent situations like the one you describe!


Because everybody knows that you can't go paint orange or red on a real muzzle device.

Do you honestly believe that that little bit of paint is going to make somebody go "oh wait, that's okay, it's just a toy". ? I guess if somebody pointed a gun at you that had an orange tip, you would just dismiss it as a toy and not bother to respond to this potentially fatal encounter.

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 7:08:57 AM EST
I think it is past time to worry about peoples fears. At this point I want people to fear gun owners. They must have one thought put into their heads and that thought must be "if one more gun law is past these people will kill me". The current situation of meekness in our society disgusts me. Feel free to submit your rights piecemeal if you like, but as far I am concerned this is the line if they cross it they die.

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 7:09:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By PaoloAR15:
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Believe me - I understand the mindset, and I certainly wasn't expecting open carry to cause anything but abject terror anywhere in Europe.


Try with an M4 softair replica with metal receiver and no muzzle red cap to get inside a supermarket in NY or Los Angeles and see how fast you will get your ass bitten by the local SWAT...




Try it with a stock plastic M4 with a red/orange muzzle and the response will be the same.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 7:10:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By PaoloAR15:
This morning I was reading a free newspaper in the subway to work when my attention was caught by a little article with a small pic portraying an M4 rifle.

In a central area of Rome, Italy, the police stopped a man in a car and seized what, at first glance, looked like an assault rifle M4.

This happened because the man was in the car, parked somewhere, with this rifle clearly visible in the rear seat. Someone got scared and called the police.

The M4 resulted to be a SOFTAIR and not a real gun. Anyway he will pass some troubles and possibily will be prosecuted for "procuring social alarm" (in Italy such a thing is a crime...), since the gun was undistiguishable from a real one.

In these times, with all the problems we gun owners are having with guns that have martial aspects, stupid people with softairs can trigger decisions against both airsoft owners and real gun owners, while gun owners are already keeping a very low profile and not to keep authority attentions.

As with leaving a replica M-4 laying out carelessly, it seems to me that airsoft tends to breed complacency about both the safe use of, and care of, firearms . My kids didn't get toy guns until after they understood real guns.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 7:11:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 7:12:14 AM EST by stockshift]
Originally Posted By Walkure:

Do you honestly believe that that little bit of paint is going to make somebody go "oh wait, that's okay, it's just a toy". ? I guess if somebody pointed a gun at you that had an orange tip, you would just dismiss it as a toy and not bother to respond to this potentially fatal encounter.



Leaving aside your thinly veiled condescending attitude, where did Paolo say the gun was pointed at someone?

Unless you're intentionally being obtuse, a red muzzle on an AR sitting in the back seat of a car probably would have saved the guy a trip downtown.




Link Posted: 9/18/2009 7:11:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By GunnyG:
As with leaving a replica M-4 laying out carelessly, it seems to me that airsoft tends to breed complacency about both the safe use of, and care of, firearms . My kids didn't get toy guns until after they understood real guns.


Yep, I agree - and that seems to be the point the OP was trying to make.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 7:14:52 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 7:15:52 AM EST
I shoot my airsoft in the backyard surrounded by neighbors. Never had a problem. Heck, I have even shot firearms in my backyard in broad daylight, and no complaints. Airsoft is in no way shape or form damaging to the RKBA. The only thing airsoft is damaging to is grasshoppers and small birds.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 7:16:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:
We need to bring back more and more realistic toy guns.


I concur. Between airsoft and first-person-shooters, I believe the next generation is being infected with Black Rifle Disease.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 7:31:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By KaseyK:
I shoot my airsoft in the backyard surrounded by neighbors. Never had a problem. Heck, I have even shot firearms in my backyard in broad daylight, and no complaints. Airsoft is in no way shape or form damaging to the RKBA. The only thing airsoft is damaging to is grasshoppers and small birds.


Well, carelessness by some airsofters around sheeple might harm the RKBA––––-especially in Italy, the location discussed in and by the OP.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 8:12:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By EGI_Tactical:
Originally Posted By mnd:
Gun owners shouldn't have to keep a low profile.

Stop treating RKBA like it has to be hidden behind closed doors maybe?


Indeed.

Indeed +1


Link Posted: 9/18/2009 8:25:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By MedPig:
Originally Posted By AngeredKabar:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
In all honesty: It's people who are such sheeple that they get scared anytime they see a gun.

I was thinking about this when my wife and I were sitting in a diner and a couple of local cops came in to get some breakfast. Typical cops, wearing side arms. Now NOBODY looks twice at cops when they open carry, so why are they so freaked out if they were to see a private citizen doing the same? The cops are no better or worse than anyone else; they simply have a job that more or less requires them to carry guns. Why would your average law-abiding citizen carrying a gun cause such fear among the general population?

Just a little rant of my own...


Because people look at a uniform and see a vetting process.

People look at Joe Citizen and see Joe Citizen.


There's a lot of people out there who are scared as hell that another person can posess an instrument which can hurt them without going through mountains of training and background checks.

And yet they all drive...


It's not supposed to make sense, that's why it's an irrational fear.


I think it's funny that people think police have extensive firearms training.


Seriously, one week in the academy, and MAYBE two-three days a year, if they're lucky. We used to hit the range 4 times a year, by the time I retired, we were down to 2, only because the State required 2.

Most cops don't know guns as well as they think. One Sergeant charged a guy with violating the Assault Weapon Ban (NJ), because he couldn't tell the difference between and AK and an SKS.


You must have retired a long time ago , because my dept. fires a minimum of 4,000 rounds a year each , and we set that policy based off every other dept in the state.
The belief that cops dont shoot is persistent,
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 8:27:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By 5robert25:
Originally Posted By MedPig:
Originally Posted By AngeredKabar:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
In all honesty: It's people who are such sheeple that they get scared anytime they see a gun.

I was thinking about this when my wife and I were sitting in a diner and a couple of local cops came in to get some breakfast. Typical cops, wearing side arms. Now NOBODY looks twice at cops when they open carry, so why are they so freaked out if they were to see a private citizen doing the same? The cops are no better or worse than anyone else; they simply have a job that more or less requires them to carry guns. Why would your average law-abiding citizen carrying a gun cause such fear among the general population?

Just a little rant of my own...


Because people look at a uniform and see a vetting process.

People look at Joe Citizen and see Joe Citizen.


There's a lot of people out there who are scared as hell that another person can posess an instrument which can hurt them without going through mountains of training and background checks.

And yet they all drive...


It's not supposed to make sense, that's why it's an irrational fear.


I think it's funny that people think police have extensive firearms training.


Seriously, one week in the academy, and MAYBE two-three days a year, if they're lucky. We used to hit the range 4 times a year, by the time I retired, we were down to 2, only because the State required 2.

Most cops don't know guns as well as they think. One Sergeant charged a guy with violating the Assault Weapon Ban (NJ), because he couldn't tell the difference between and AK and an SKS.


You must have retired a long time ago , because my dept. fires a minimum of 4,000 rounds a year each , and we set that policy based off every other dept in the state.
The belief that cops dont shoot is persistent,



At my agency we fire 60 rounds per year. Anything else is on our own time––––except that we can qualify on backup/off-duty weapons at the same qual session––-just have to bring our own ammo.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 8:31:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 8:35:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By Desert_AIP:
We need to bring back more and more realistic toy guns.

When I was a kid nobody freaked out about just the thought of a gun and we all had realistic looking toys.

Now, where's my full size all black motorized Uzi water gun?


i had a toy tommy gun that had a drum that came off like a real one... it was so damn cool looked just like a real thompson machne gun
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 8:42:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
Originally Posted By 5robert25:
You must have retired a long time ago , because my dept. fires a minimum of 4,000 rounds a year each , and we set that policy based off every other dept in the state.
The belief that cops dont shoot is persistent,



At my agency we fire 60 rounds per year. Anything else is on our own time––––except that we can qualify on backup/off-duty weapons at the same qual session––-just have to bring our own ammo.


During college, we were able to get our newly-formed rifle/pistol club access to the local LEO range (it was run by the Uni PD, which actually was very well-funded and very well-equipped; and all local LEOs used the range as well). As such, we got to shoot alongside officers during their monthly practice sessions. These sessions were provided to all local LEOs, with free targets and free ammo - but they were voluntary practice sessions, and not required by any department that used the range. At least 3 or 4 reasonably large PDs used the range; out of all of their officers, there were usually only 3 or 4 individual officers that consistently came to the free practice sessions.

While I may not be a LEO, this experience really proved to me that the vast majority of LEOs are not only "not gun people" but they don't even take the time to practice a potentially life-saving skill on any regular basis.

And did I mention they got unlimited free ammo?
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 9:32:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
Originally Posted By KaseyK:
I shoot my airsoft in the backyard surrounded by neighbors. Never had a problem. Heck, I have even shot firearms in my backyard in broad daylight, and no complaints. Airsoft is in no way shape or form damaging to the RKBA. The only thing airsoft is damaging to is grasshoppers and small birds.


Well, carelessness by some airsofters around sheeple might harm the RKBA––––-especially in Italy, the location discussed in and by the OP.


I forgot to mention another case, happened last year, in Naples.

A couple of losers had the habit to practice robbery using a softair replica of a handgun against couples that were parking in isolate areas to have intimity.

The crime ended when they tried it against a couple and the guy reacted: he was a Carabineri and former GIS team. The guy pulled out his Beretta and shot dead the supposed armed robber, the other managed to find his way out at speedlight.

This may arm RKBA, as most of the softair people spend as much as real gun owners for their tactical gear (a Marui M4 can cost here about 600-750 Euro, that is more than a .223 Plinker...) and they make this choice because they don't want to afford the hassle of bureocracy to get a real gun, But they don't want also to attend the mandatory "safe firearms handling courses" and get the proper certification.

They think that a gun looking like the real thing (I was not able to distinguish a Marui M4A1 replica until I got in my hands... It was in my range on the bench and I startled when I saw that the selector had also the "auto" mark...) is a toy and they handle it like a toy and behave like they had a toy.

People get scared of such toys, and my fear is that this would trigger a wider action against toy-guns and real-guns.

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 9:45:07 AM EST
That may be the casein Italy, and that is certainly unfortunate. Around here though someone may get scared and call the police, the police may come and figure out nothing wrong is happening, then request that you cover the rifle. You then choose if you want to honor the request or not. And that's with a real rifle.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 9:48:08 AM EST
The guy was a bonehead for leaving it out in plain sight, knowing the sort of reaction it might inspire...but if it's legal to own it it then it ought to be legal to drive around with it in your car. Prosecuting the guy is bullshit.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 9:50:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By retgarr:
That may be the casein Italy, and that is certainly unfortunate. Around here though someone may get scared and call the police, the police may come and figure out nothing wrong is happening, then request that you cover the rifle. You then choose if you want to honor the request or not. And that's with a real rifle.


Or you shoot someone that is menacing you with a softair replica of a Desert Eagle and spendint 12000 euro and the next five years struggling with lawyers. Not to count the newspapers and mediatic bashing and, possibly, the parents and relatives of the dead loser that have also a criminal record as long as Road 66...
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 9:59:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By PaoloAR15:
Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
Originally Posted By KaseyK:
I shoot my airsoft in the backyard surrounded by neighbors. Never had a problem. Heck, I have even shot firearms in my backyard in broad daylight, and no complaints. Airsoft is in no way shape or form damaging to the RKBA. The only thing airsoft is damaging to is grasshoppers and small birds.


Well, carelessness by some airsofters around sheeple might harm the RKBA––––-especially in Italy, the location discussed in and by the OP.


I forgot to mention another case, happened last year, in Naples.

A couple of losers had the habit to practice robbery using a softair replica of a handgun against couples that were parking in isolate areas to have intimity.

The crime ended when they tried it against a couple and the guy reacted: he was a Carabineri and former GIS team. The guy pulled out his Beretta and shot dead the supposed armed robber, the other managed to find his way out at speedlight.

This may arm RKBA, as most of the softair people spend as much as real gun owners for their tactical gear (a Marui M4 can cost here about 600-750 Euro, that is more than a .223 Plinker...) and they make this choice because they don't want to afford the hassle of bureocracy to get a real gun, But they don't want also to attend the mandatory "safe firearms handling courses" and get the proper certification.

They think that a gun looking like the real thing (I was not able to distinguish a Marui M4A1 replica until I got in my hands... It was in my range on the bench and I startled when I saw that the selector had also the "auto" mark...) is a toy and they handle it like a toy and behave like they had a toy.

People get scared of such toys, and my fear is that this would trigger a wider action against toy-guns and real-guns.




Paolo forgive my ignorance but i have been seeing you post lately and have wondered what kind of rifle you are shouldering in your avatar? also can you guys own AR15's over there?
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 10:12:12 AM EST
while gun owners are already keeping a very low profile and not to keep authority attentions.


No low profile here.

Sorry if you have to.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 10:12:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By KJCA3:

Paolo forgive my ignorance but i have been seeing you post lately and have wondered what kind of rifle you are shouldering in your avatar? also can you guys own AR15's over there?


Yes, we can own AR15 in Italy. Too bad the GENIUS of US State Department are not sending us even a pin...


The rifle I am handling in the avatar is a Beretta ARX160 with attacched the 40 mm grenade launcher GLX160. It is not a softair replica... the pic was shot while testing the rifle in the Beretta facility in Brescia.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 10:57:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By PaoloAR15:
Originally Posted By KJCA3:

Paolo forgive my ignorance but i have been seeing you post lately and have wondered what kind of rifle you are shouldering in your avatar? also can you guys own AR15's over there?


Yes, we can own AR15 in Italy. Too bad the GENIUS of US State Department are not sending us even a pin...


The rifle I am handling in the avatar is a Beretta ARX160 with attacched the 40 mm grenade launcher GLX160. It is not a softair replica... the pic was shot while testing the rifle in the Beretta facility in Brescia.


So You can get rifles and not parts for them?

I looked up the ARX on google looks like a ACR\SCAR kind of design is it as modular as those two?
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 11:03:04 AM EST
As anyone knows, sortair owners do not have the same muzzle control as real gun owners.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 11:52:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By KJCA3:

So You can get rifles and not parts for them?

I looked up the ARX on google looks like a ACR\SCAR kind of design is it as modular as those two?


We cannot get rifles and parts. Each month Department of State literally invent new things that became "strategical interest" and as a civilian became impossible or very difficult to get.

It is about six months that all the importers here in Italy said that US Dept. of State is going to stop export of Remington Police because this firearm has became of "strategic interest".

We cannot get semiauto only AR15, nor spare parts for them. Even hunting riflescopes from USA has become a problem if they have a common assembly line with the military models... it's a MESS, that for sure don't help us gun owners and also US companies in this moment of crisis.

About ARX160: it is NOT a modular rifle like the Masada or the Scar, but higly reconfigurable: you can mount a different barrel, reconfigure ejection port, cocking handle side, stock lenght in SECONDS. I tried to change the barrel with a shorter one and It took about thirty seconds. One minute to disassemble the GLX from the stand alone configuration and mount it under the rifle showed in the picture.

It's a good project and it is on field testing in Afghanistan, with good results.


Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:38:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By PaoloAR15:
We cannot get rifles and parts. Each month Department of State literally invent new things that became "strategical interest" and as a civilian became impossible or very difficult to get.

It is about six months that all the importers here in Italy said that US Dept. of State is going to stop export of Remington Police because this firearm has became of "strategic interest".


Yay ITAR!

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:42:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By PaoloAR15:
This morning I was reading a free newspaper in the subway to work when my attention was caught by a little article with a small pic portraying an M4 rifle.

In a central area of Rome, Italy, the police stopped a man in a car and seized what, at first glance, looked like an assault rifle M4.

This happened because the man was in the car, parked somewhere, with this rifle clearly visible in the rear seat. Someone got scared and called the police.

The M4 resulted to be a SOFTAIR and not a real gun. Anyway he will pass some troubles and possibily will be prosecuted for "procuring social alarm" (in Italy such a thing is a crime...), since the gun was undistiguishable from a real one.

In these times, with all the problems we gun owners are having with guns that have martial aspects, stupid people with softairs can trigger decisions against both airsoft owners and real gun owners, while gun owners are already keeping a very low profile and not to keep authority attentions.


What's up with you Paolo? You don't post a lot... and now, I can't turn around without seeing one of your posts!

It's good to hear from you!

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:42:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By mnd:
Gun owners shouldn't have to keep a low profile.

Stop treating RKBA like it has to be hidden behind closed doors maybe?


ya, this is italy, so i wouldnt compare our 2a and them. A/S isnt 2A like fantasy football isnt the NFL

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:44:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zhukov:
In all honesty: It's people who are such sheeple that they get scared anytime they see a gun.

I was thinking about this when my wife and I were sitting in a diner and a couple of local cops came in to get some breakfast. Typical cops, wearing side arms. Now NOBODY looks twice at cops when they open carry, so why are they so freaked out if they were to see a private citizen doing the same? The cops are no better or worse than anyone else; they simply have a job that more or less requires them to carry guns. Why would your average law-abiding citizen carrying a gun cause such fear among the general population?

Just a little rant of my own...

Because we all know that cops/LEOs are SUPERHUMAN SUPERMORAL beings! Duh.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:48:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By runcible:

Originally Posted By PaoloAR15:
This morning I was reading a free newspaper in the subway to work when my attention was caught by a little article with a small pic portraying an M4 rifle.

In a central area of Rome, Italy, the police stopped a man in a car and seized what, at first glance, looked like an assault rifle M4.

This happened because the man was in the car, parked somewhere, with this rifle clearly visible in the rear seat. Someone got scared and called the police.

The M4 resulted to be a SOFTAIR and not a real gun. Anyway he will pass some troubles and possibily will be prosecuted for "procuring social alarm" (in Italy such a thing is a crime...), since the gun was undistiguishable from a real one.

In these times, with all the problems we gun owners are having with guns that have martial aspects, stupid people with softairs can trigger decisions against both airsoft owners and real gun owners, while gun owners are already keeping a very low profile and not to keep authority attentions.


What's up with you Paolo? You don't post a lot... and now, I can't turn around without seeing one of your posts!

It's good to hear from you!



Thanks, bud. It's very nice to have a talk with my ar15comers friends...
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:55:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By CWDraco:
Originally Posted By mnd:
Gun owners shouldn't have to keep a low profile.

Stop treating RKBA like it has to be hidden behind closed doors maybe?


ya, this is italy, so i wouldnt compare our 2a and them. A/S isnt 2A like fantasy football isnt the NFL



True, in Italy we don't have RKBA in our constitution, but we can own full auto military rifles reconditioned to semiauto only, such as original H&RA or TRW M14 or, recently, real M16 from Malesian Army, and you can't. Yes I would not compare it...
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 10:50:22 AM EST
Comparing airsofters to real shooters, the former I have seen in airsoft stores tend to be immature college kids (preening prettyboys) who can't even follow basic gun safety rules. The real shooters I see at the range tend to be focused on hitting a target, older and a lot more mature. Airsofters just draw negative publicity and in the long run will help kill real gun ownership.

That said, as much as I hate airsoft, it is often the only way to handle exotics one would otherwise rarely see such as FN SCARs, M240s, StG-44, etc.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 11:01:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:


At my agency we fire 60 rounds per year. Anything else is on our own time––––except that we can qualify on backup/off-duty weapons at the same qual session––-just have to bring our own ammo.


Heh, that explains the NOPD officer buying ammo at the funshow this morning. I was kinda wondering about that.

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 11:01:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By stockshift:
Paolo, it has been years since I have been to Rome but do you guys have the requirement that Airsoft guns have a red muzzle to distinguish them from the real thing?

People wonder why I left the red muzzle on my KWA gas blowback G19 .... no it doesn't look cool but it tends to prevent situations like the one you describe!


I've been debating getting my M4 flash hider painted day-glow orange.
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