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Posted: 6/30/2015 2:31:23 PM EDT
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/06/23/why-many-rape-victims-dont-fight-or-yell/?postshare=1951435522620423

...The body is primed for fight or flight. But as we shall see, neither fight nor flight necessarily follows.

Simultaneously with the freeze response, the fear circuitry unleashes a surge of “stress chemicals” into the prefrontal cortex, the brain region that allows us to think rationally – to recall the bedroom door is open, or that people are in the dorm room next door, for example, and to make use of that information. But the surge of chemicals rapidly impairs the prefrontal cortex. ...

...For those who assume a functional prefrontal cortex – including many victims as they look back on what happened – passive habit responses can be baffling. They seem exactly the opposite of how they surely would – or should – have responded.

But when the fear circuitry takes over and the prefrontal cortex is impaired, habits and reflexes may be all we’ve got...
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TL;DR: When confronted with terror, the part of the brain which allows us to think rationally shuts down, and we respond with reflexes and habits.  The article is about why some women don't resist rapists. I think this also underscores the importance of training so that you aren't paralyzed in a gunfight.  You can't always rely on all cognitive abilities.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 2:37:53 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 2:49:28 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
The freeze response has always been left out of the fight / flight dialogue, and i could never figure out why. It is a very real thing.
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It doesn't rhyme with the others. "fight or flight" rolls off the tongue better than "fight or flight or freeze."  I bet that's the only reason.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 2:52:11 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
The freeze response has always been left out of the fight / flight dialogue, and i could never figure out why. It is a very real thing.
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True.  Poor rape victims...the horrors they experience.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 2:52:50 PM EDT
[#4]

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Quoted:


The freeze response has always been left out of the fight / flight dialogue, and i could never figure out why. It is a very real thing.
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Is it kind of like when you're going to crash and fixate on something, freeze up and steer right into it?

 



If so, I understand exactly what they mean.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 2:53:44 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
The freeze response has always been left out of the fight / flight dialogue, and i could never figure out why. It is a very real thing.
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Yeah, and it's really hard to know which you are until you are presented with a fight/flight scenario.  Seen plenty of people just lock up and go brain dead when they got spooked.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 2:55:29 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
The freeze response has always been left out of the fight / flight dialogue, and i could never figure out why. It is a very real thing.
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I am not sure how applicable this is to a discussion of the freeze response in instances of sexual assault. But in On Killing  Dave Grossman argued that "fight or flight" should be "fight, flight, posture, or submit." Perhaps the freeze response is analogous to the latter.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 2:58:47 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm going to try to bring this up without sounding like some sort of misogynist knuckle-dragger....

Could this sort of behavior have an evolutionary component?  Generally speaking, in most mammals (especially primates) males have usually been significantly larger, stronger, and more aggressive than females.  In the animal world, resistance to sexual advances (wanted or not) could easily result in the female being hurt or killed (thus not propagating)  

Hell, the same could be said for the human world until relatively recently...  
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 3:04:11 PM EDT
[#8]
you do realize most rapes start with the woman getting the shit beat out of her. The first indication may be a surprise punch to the gut. Most don't even get a chance to fight back.

it isn't like the movies, it is a sudden and violent attack. Not much different than being mugged.  Your first clue is being hit. (unless you are in condition yellow like you are supposed to be)

Fight or flight gets replaced with being unable to comprehend what is going on.

I knew a woman that was raped, she was beat so badly that she spent a week in the hospital and still doesn't walk right. The only reason she knew she was raped (other than the rape kit) was she was torn up and bleeding from her vagina. She was beaten unconscious almost instantly.

so yeah, the whole fight / flight thing doesn't really work.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 3:32:10 PM EDT
[#9]
It is much like when a predator is killing its prey, the prey animal will more often than not go into shock and just shut down.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 3:41:09 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
you do realize most rapes start with the woman getting the shit beat out of her. The first indication may be a surprise punch to the gut. Most don't even get a chance to fight back.

it isn't like the movies, it is a sudden and violent attack. Not much different than being mugged.  Your first clue is being hit. (unless you are in condition yellow like you are supposed to be)

Fight or flight gets replaced with being unable to comprehend what is going on.

I knew a woman that was raped, she was beat so badly that she spent a week in the hospital and still doesn't walk right. The only reason she knew she was raped (other than the rape kit) was she was torn up and bleeding from her vagina. She was beaten unconscious almost instantly.

so yeah, the whole fight / flight thing doesn't really work.
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Situational awareness is your best defense. You gun, knife and krav maga skills can all be cancelled out because your brain wassn't ready to use them. A buddy of mine, big guy, former Army Ranger, BJJ enthusiast got his ass beat into the hospital in Philly a few years ago because he was walking alone and texting. Admitted he never even saw it coming.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 3:43:18 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:

It doesn't rhyme with the others. "fight or flight" rolls off the tongue better than "fight or flight or freeze."  I bet that's the only reason.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
The freeze response has always been left out of the fight / flight dialogue, and i could never figure out why. It is a very real thing.

It doesn't rhyme with the others. "fight or flight" rolls off the tongue better than "fight or flight or freeze."  I bet that's the only reason.



Fight, flight, sit tight?
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 4:51:30 PM EDT
[#12]
I always thought it was the chloroform.  But what do I know.

Link Posted: 6/30/2015 4:52:50 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:


True.  Poor rape victims...the horrors they experience.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The freeze response has always been left out of the fight / flight dialogue, and i could never figure out why. It is a very real thing.


True.  Poor rape victims...the horrors they experience.



It isn't just rape. A good portion of people just shut down under trauma or an emergency. Like literally sit in a crashed airplane and burn to death rather than get up and move.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 4:54:19 PM EDT
[#14]
I bet it's the same thing that happens when you see videos of those guys lined up, 50 in a row and a ISIS guy executes them one by one.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 4:57:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 5:00:56 PM EDT
[#16]
You said rape twice.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 5:02:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
you do realize most rapes start with the woman getting the shit beat out of her. The first indication may be a surprise punch to the gut. Most don't even get a chance to fight back.

it isn't like the movies, it is a sudden and violent attack. Not much different than being mugged.  Your first clue is being hit. (unless you are in condition yellow like you are supposed to be)

Fight or flight gets replaced with being unable to comprehend what is going on.

I knew a woman that was raped, she was beat so badly that she spent a week in the hospital and still doesn't walk right. The only reason she knew she was raped (other than the rape kit) was she was torn up and bleeding from her vagina. She was beaten unconscious almost instantly.

so yeah, the whole fight / flight thing doesn't really work.
View Quote


I do'nt believe that is true at all. Rather, most of the time the victim is intimidated into submitting.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 5:08:14 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:

I'm not sure that's true... although it may be true for certain subsets of rape (like true stranger-rape)
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It wasn't true in most cases of "true stranger rape" that I'm aware of.

There are cases like that. A classic case was the Central Park jogger back in the '80s.

But usually intimidation is used. Hell, I remember when there was a serial rapist who was calling girls up using campus directories from UCSD and SDSU. He would talk to them, convince them they had to meet him in a parking lot and submit to sex or else he'd attack their family.  It actually worked until he called the wrong girl and ended up with a date with the SDPD.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 5:15:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm going to try to bring this up without sounding like some sort of misogynist knuckle-dragger....

Could this sort of behavior have an evolutionary component?  Generally speaking, in most mammals (especially primates) males have usually been significantly larger, stronger, and more aggressive than females.  In the animal world, resistance to sexual advances (wanted or not) could easily result in the female being hurt or killed (thus not propagating)  

Hell, the same could be said for the human world until relatively recently...  
View Quote


I think human history and the way we evolved probably included adapting to the norms of the warfare we engaged in, which probably consisted of low level ethnic cleansing based upon raids and such. Probably not so much pitched battles between armed men, but armed men seeking easy targets, particularly young women captives. Human sexuality in particular I believe was influenced by that.
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 5:20:52 PM EDT
[#20]
I got to experience this response once during a big ass earthquake.  
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 5:27:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm going to try to bring this up without sounding like some sort of misogynist knuckle-dragger....

Could this sort of behavior have an evolutionary component?  Generally speaking, in most mammals (especially primates) males have usually been significantly larger, stronger, and more aggressive than females.  In the animal world, resistance to sexual advances (wanted or not) could easily result in the female being hurt or killed (thus not propagating)  

Hell, the same could be said for the human world until relatively recently...  
View Quote


Sort of like when an male dog or other animal bites the female on the scruff to paralyze her so he can mate easier.
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