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Posted: 10/30/2004 4:27:53 PM EST
It's been over 3 years since 9/11/01. Despite a massive military campaign costing billions of dollars and thousands of casualties, the man who masterminded those terrible attacks still lives. After three years in WWII we had Nazi Germany by the nut-sack. But one man who has no military might beyond a few lightly armed fanatics has eluded eradication by the world's only superpower bent on destroying him over the same interval of time.

I'm sure most of you will want to trash me for having these thoughts but dammit, there it is. I've been supportive of the War on Terror throughtout, I have friends in harms way as I write. But seeing Bin Laden's face yesterday was just a seering reminder that the promice of justice for Sept 11th still hasn't been delivered.

Why not!? What's it going take?
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:30:44 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:30:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:32:15 PM EST
Because we outsourced our troops when we had him cornered at Tora Bora.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:32:30 PM EST
Why is Bush still president?
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:32:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 5:20:01 PM EST by Rem700PSS]
Bush and the U.S. Military had him cornered in Tora Bora and Bush decided not to risk the lives of the troops and turned the city over to the warlords and Bin Laden escapes! Thats why he's alive.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:33:29 PM EST
Look at the pics Andy posted in another thread. Can you say needle in a haystack?

This same terrain with the same fighters stopped three superpowers, the Ancient Greeks, the Brits, and the USSR. We've done a damn good job there isolating the MFer and making him cry like a little bitch, "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone, waaah!" Sorry asshole we'll leave you alone when you and your ilk are looking for your 72 virgins in hell.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:34:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By DigDug:
Did we get Hitler?



He got himself. I think he took cyanide and shot himself with a PPK.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:35:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By DigDug:
Did we get Hitler?



Yeah, we did. The Russian's didn't tell us about it for a few decades but yeah, we got Hitler.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:35:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By DarkNite:

Originally Posted By DigDug:
Did we get Hitler?



Yeah, we did. The Russian's didn't tell us about it for a few decades but yeah, we got Hitler.



No we didn't. He killed himself.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:36:25 PM EST
I don't know, maybe you should ask Clinton why he didn't kill him on any of the three clear chances he had?
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:36:31 PM EST
he is still alive, but Al Queda has been mostly squashed. So whats his real power now, besides being a figurehead?
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:39:41 PM EST
It pissed me off to see him alive as well.

What's it going to take? Perseverance, endurance and tenacity. A leader who will continue the fight. A leader who doesn't flip and then flop.

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:40:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Ummm he is hiding like a cockroach in a vast mountain region that is impossible to lockdown and with literally tens of thousands of caves and potential hiding spots? Because he was part of the Afghan resistance that survived because it grew adept at hiding? So, how many attacks on US soil? How many Al-Qaeda killed or captured?



That's credible. But was Iwo Jima any easier? Damn it, I don't really care about dead nameless, faceless Al-Queda. I want OBL's head on a stick. That was the promice, that was the mission. And now he shows up like it's an appearance on Doctor Phil or something. Color me frustrated.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:42:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By DarkNite:

Originally Posted By DigDug:
Did we get Hitler?



Yeah, we did. The Russian's didn't tell us about it for a few decades but yeah, we got Hitler.



No we didn't. He killed himself.



Same thing. After all, I doubt he would of gotten all maudlin and offed himself without a little assistance from the Allies.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:46:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By DarkNite:

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Ummm he is hiding like a cockroach in a vast mountain region that is impossible to lockdown and with literally tens of thousands of caves and potential hiding spots? Because he was part of the Afghan resistance that survived because it grew adept at hiding? So, how many attacks on US soil? How many Al-Qaeda killed or captured?



That's credible. But was Iwo Jima any easier? Damn it, I don't really care about dead nameless, faceless Al-Queda. I want OBL's head on a stick. That was the promice, that was the mission. And now he shows up like it's an appearance on Doctor Phil or something. Color me frustrated.



Was Iwo Jima easier? YES. Just based on scope alone. How many Iwo Jima's could you put into the border region between A-stan and Pakistan? How many mountains were on Iwo Jima compared to the Pashtun regions?

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:46:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:47:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By DarkNite:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By DarkNite:

Originally Posted By DigDug:
Did we get Hitler?



Yeah, we did. The Russian's didn't tell us about it for a few decades but yeah, we got Hitler.



No we didn't. He killed himself.



Same thing. After all, I doubt he would of gotten all maudlin and offed himself without a little assistance from the Allies.



No it's not. Hell, there were rumors of him being in Argentina up until the 70s because we didn't find his body.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:55:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:57:28 PM EST
Why is Osama Bin Laden STILL ALIVE?

because I havent seen his ass yet
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:58:44 PM EST
Life isn't a Hollywood script. Plus, OBL is not the only player in the game, Kerry stupided into that train of thought during the debates but not enough was made of it. There is more to the war on terror than grabbing one man, much more. Many people don't want to believe that "they" have a lot of determined, intelligent, and capable people, who are focusing their entire lives' work to killing Ameircans and anyone else that is in their way. Rail on about camel-fuckers and dirt floors all you want, but underestimating the enemy's skills and depth isn't a good idea.

We are just as likely to be cursing the name of an as-yet unkown terrorist planner after the next attack. AQ, it's affiliates, and it's fellow thinkers, are not going to give up every operation in planning or become incapaciated just because OBL is getting a pounding in prison.

As for the "outsourcing" at Tora Bora, who do you think is more credible: Tommy Franks or the Kerry commercials?
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:58:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 4:59:20 PM EST by Boom_Stick]
How long did it take to get Ted Kaczynski? YEARS! And that guy was in our own country even.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:05:18 PM EST
John Kerry has a plan to get him
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:06:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

Ummm yes, Iwo Jima was a fraction of the size and was far less of a daunting task in terms of the terrain... don't get me wrong, the Marines there faught long and hard and bled for that land... but the mountains of Afghanistan AND Pakistan are continuos and Pakistan is a soverign nation... no telling if he has crossed borders, he likely has. The point is they have landed no punched here, and in fact have made several tries and all have been thwarted. Go buy Farenhype 9-11 and they detail several plots that were stopped here.



I don't necessarily mean Iwo Jima in terms of operational sophistication, but rather in terms of national character; the ability to do the hard thing, to dedicate the resources and lives to achieve the ultimate goal. It was the national character that demanded the destruction of the Japanese. That same will endured the hardships and costs needed to defeat the Empire of Japan in under 4 years.

I believe that if the United States as a nation could accomplish that mission and that now our resolve is as firm regarding bringing OBL to justice then the answer "it's just too hard" is wearing thin.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:06:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:
Why is Osama Bin Laden STILL ALIVE?

because I havent seen his ass yet



EXCELLENT answer!
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:10:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
How long did it take to get Ted Kaczynski? YEARS! And that guy was in our own country even.



Once the FBI knew the Unabomber was Kaczynski they got him pretty damn quick.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:11:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:13:04 PM EST
Ted Kaczynski began his bombing run on May 25, 1978.

On April 3, 1996, 17 bombs and 18 years later, he was finally captured.

Kaczynski was on US soil all those years, not in some hostile foreign land, and may never have been found were it not for information his younger brother provided the FBI.

Some nuts are just tough to crack.

'Nuf said.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:13:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:
Bush and the U.S. Military had him cornered inBora Bora and Bush decided not to risk the lives of the troops and turned the city over to the warlords and Bin Laden escapes! Thats why he's not alive.


if your gonna spout off with ignorant Michael Moore info, at least get your post correct .
If we were to take your post seriously, youd have us thinking we had OBL cornered in BORA BORA (which is an Island of Tahitti) and that we killed him there.
here is a pic of BORA BORA



here is a pic of TORA BORA

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:13:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By raven:
Because we outsourced our troops when we had him cornered at Tora Bora.



There has never been any proof he was at Tora Bora
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:13:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:13:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
That's some tough terrain in Afghanistan/Pakistan, how long did that abortion bomber guy hide out in the Smoky Mountains?



Eric Rudolph didn't have the focused efforts of the combined might of the military, diplomatic and intelligence capabilities of the United States looking for him, either.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:13:42 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:15:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:
Bush and the U.S. Military had him cornered in Bora Bora and Bush decided not to risk the lives of the troops and turned the city over to the warlords and Bin Laden escapes! Thats why he's not alive.



OK, Bora Bora is an island near Tahiti

Tora Bora is a cave complex in Afghanistan

Neither of them is a city
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:16:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:18:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Moof:
Ted Kaczynski began his bombing run on May 25, 1978.

On April 3, 1996, 17 bombs and 18 years later, he was finally captured.

Kaczynski was on US soil all those years, not in some hostile foreign land, and may never have been found were it not for information his younger brother provided the FBI.

Some nuts are just tough to crack.

'Nuf said.



Kaczynski killed a handfull of people. OBL was responsible for killing 3000 Americans. There is no comparison between the assets the United States allocated to tracking the Unabomber and those that have (and should) be allocated to killing the number one poster boy of our enemy in the Global War on Terror.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:18:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
members.cox.net/winston_wolf/binLaden.gif



that's just wrong, I'm getting you banned asshole!




... You mean you're getting my preban, asshole?
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:23:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By EX11B:

Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:
Bush and the U.S. Military had him cornered inBora Bora and Bush decided not to risk the lives of the troops and turned the city over to the warlords and Bin Laden escapes! Thats why he's not alive.


if your gonna spout off with ignorant Michael Moore info, at least get your post correct .
If we were to take your post seriously, youd have us thinking we had OBL cornered in BORA BORA (which is an Island of Tahitti) and that we killed him there.
here is a pic of BORA BORA

www.southwestdirectory.com/data/businessbuilder/images//1001A_Hotel_Bora_Bora_copy.jpg

here is a pic of TORA BORA

www.september11news.com/Dec15ToraBora.jpg



Sorry, that was a typo. Tora Bora is infact what I ment to say. And then I started to say "And thats why he's not been killed" but then types "alive" without taking out the not. My bad.

Whats the price on his forehead up to these days? I'm surprised no ones iced his ass to get the green.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:23:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:25:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
members.cox.net/winston_wolf/binLaden.gif



I just new this was gonna get ugly...
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:26:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
He is likely in Pakistan, although the mountains of Afghanistan are still a possibility. Pakistan is a soverign nation that has a lot of internal issues to deal with that won't allow them to clamp down as much as they like. Bottom line, they are currently ineffective here,,, and that is what matters.



+1
Who ever said he was definatly in the caves at Tora Bora anyway? Remember all the unibomber siteings? Or the olympic bomber siteings. There are poeple who say they saw Elvis in the grocery store and we haven't found him yet either.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:58:30 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:09:27 PM EST
Bin Laden is one man with a beard in a land of millions of men with beards. He has cash to buy friends, and he already has ideological allies high in the Iranian, Saudi, and Paki governments. Worse, he isn't even the most important guy in the organization to capture of kill.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:31:44 PM EST
No we didnt get Hitler. Hitler commited suicide before the Russians could get ahold of him.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:36:26 PM EST
Dark nite dont make the mistake of thinking this war we are engaged in only means getting Bin Laden. We have totally wrecked his terror organization. His power has been greatly reduced. He will be found and killed. Afganistan used to be a stronghold of his now he hides in a cave. He will make a mistake and end of dead. The terrorist are loosing the fight in Afganistan and they know it. There resistance is down to no motorized vehicles just people.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:53:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By DarkNite:

Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
How long did it take to get Ted Kaczynski? YEARS! And that guy was in our own country even.



Once the FBI knew the Unabomber was Kaczynski they got him pretty damn quick.



Ummm, yeah. And he had phone bills and regularly purchased Slim Jims at the local 7-Eleven once a month when he came into town.

Seen OBama at the 7-eleven lately?

OBL is a human mountain goat. We'll get him but it'll take more patience than the average American urbanite has. Instant gratification and lack of a serious work ethic defines urban America. "Oh, my God. Its been months. Why haven't we caught him?" Get a grip.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:00:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By dport:
Look at the pics Andy posted in another thread. Can you say needle in a haystack?

This same terrain with the same fighters stopped three superpowers, the Ancient Greeks, the Brits, and the USSR. We've done a damn good job there isolating the MFer and making him cry like a little bitch, "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone, waaah!" Sorry asshole we'll leave you alone when you and your ilk are looking for your 72 virgins in hell.
_________________________________________________-

Original post by Darknite

It's been over 3 years since 9/11/01. Despite a massive military campaign costing billions of dollars and thousands of casualties, the man who masterminded those terrible attacks still lives. After three years in WWII we had Nazi Germany by the nut-sack. But one man who has no military might beyond a few lightly armed fanatics has eluded eradication by the world's only superpower bent on destroying him over the same interval of time.

I'm sure most of you will want to trash me for having these thoughts but dammit, there it is. I've been supportive of the War on Terror throughtout, I have friends in harms way as I write. But seeing Bin Laden's face yesterday was just a seering reminder that the promice of justice for Sept 11th still hasn't been delivered.




Wait...We aren't the Brits, we aren't the Ancient Greeks, and we aren't the USSR.

We are the USA. We have satellites circling the globe 24x7. They can pick up tire tracks in Siberia and put a 5 ton missile fired from a bobbing destroyer 300 miles away in the ocean, and put that missile into the leftmost second story of a three story window.

When I was on an M1 Abrams, I could put a Armor piercing Fin Stabilized round flying 4800 Mtr/Sec into a moving target while I was moving cross country myself at 40 MPH. That was over 10 years ago.

We have the best technology in the world, we have the most extensive intelligence network int he world, unlimited budget, and OBL has...a donkey, an AK47, a radio, and a Sony Videocam.

Don't tell me he doesn't matter or that he's irrelevant. Don't say it's too tough of a job to find him. The technology and the equipment and hardware is out there... so tell me again why Osama has a longer season than "friends? Why is he still around?
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:04:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:06:51 PM EST
You go ahead and use all that crap and go deer hunting. I guarantee you that you won't see a single freakin deer for months on end.

"Lets drive our 69 ton tank up into the mountains. It produces 411 decibles at 1000 meters and fires humongous projectiles at outrageous velocities. I'm sure nobody will hear us coming. This should be easy".

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:08:23 PM EST
You mean why haven't we applied massive resources to finding him? Because he isn't really all that important. Nabbing him would be a nice symbolic victory, but I don't think it would have much effect on the ability of Al-Quada to conduct terrorist attacks in the US. If he is in the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan somewhere, he's bottled up pretty good, and we have better things to do with 50,000 men then go look for him. Those men are busy setting up and protecting new Democracies in Afghanistan and Iraq because Democracy in the Middle East will have a far greater effect on the future of Terrorism then whether Osama is captured or not.

Also, I remember hearing that while Adolf had the courtesy to kill himself, lots of other senior members of the Nazi regime escaped to South America, and were never captured. The same reasons were operative then - it was more important to maintain order and set up a Democratic Government in Germany then it was to capture every single member of the Nazi regime.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:15:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By leelaw:
I don't know, maybe you should ask Clinton why he didn't kill him on any of the three clear chances he had?



DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!
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