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Posted: 10/15/2004 11:09:14 AM EST
During my daily purusal of my favorite hunting/shooting forums, I came across an interesting thread on Hunt America.
In the Legal and Political topics was a discussion about President Bush and the AWB ban. One member,Cindi, made a reply asking why hunters (anyone) would need:

Folding/telescoping stock
Protruding pistolgrip
Bayonet mount
Threaded muzzle
Grenade launcher
30/40 round magazine (I added this one, she probably overlooked it!)

So far, no one has actually answered her question- there was the usual " the 2nd Amendment ain't about hunting" retort and such.

SO- what IS the Best answer to this question?

If you would allow me the following observations:

I guessing that 60% (or more) of the American public is somehow IN FAVOR of abloshing ALL "assault weapons."
I understand that the public does not understand all aspects of semi-auto rifles ( while most are ignorant, I doubt they will be inclined to do much research on the issue).
If Kerry is elected and if congress slides to the "left" within the next 2-6 years, I believe there is a good chance we will see this thing raise its ugly head once more.
The SCOUS might not be friendly to a Second Amendment challenge ( especilally if a couple of new, libeal justices come on board).

What are the best strategies to educate or "win-over" folks like Cindi and, more especially, the non-shooting pulic?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:10:00 AM EST
cuz
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:13:16 AM EST
Why does anyone need to hunt?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:13:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 11:13:52 AM EST by Dolomite]
dood! cuz they're hella kewl!
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:14:21 AM EST
Just in case there is assaulting that needs to be done.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:15:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By wedge1082:
Just in case there is assaulting that needs to be done.



Indeed.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:16:16 AM EST
If someone asks this of you, simply reject the entire premise of the question.

"I reject the premise that I must justify my wants to you or anyone just as I reject the premise that I must prove my innosence to the government. It is up to you to prove there is something that disqualifies me from owning that or any other inanimate object. You may attempt to do this only after you have proven that I have given you authority to over me. In other words, go PHUQUE-OFF!"
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:17:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By wedge1082:
Just in case there is assaulting that needs to be done.



Like mad crazy zombies... Have you seen that recent British comedy "Shawn of the Dead"? You have any idea how much easier they would have had it, if they had some AR-15's with a Beta-C drums?!?!?!?!
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:17:42 AM EST
Since there is no such thing as "Assault Weapons" then the argument is null.
Most Americans had no idea what the ban was or did.
If the media had did it's job of informing them of the truth then the majority of American's would have been for it's sunsetting.

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:17:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By michauxii:
During my daily purusal of my favorite hunting/shooting forums, I came across an interesting thread on Hunt America.
In the Legal and Political topics was a discussion about President Bush and the AWB ban. One member,Cindi, made a reply asking why hunters (anyone) would need:

Folding/telescoping stock
Protruding pistolgrip
Bayonet mount
Threaded muzzle
Grenade launcher
30/40 round magazine (I added this one, she probably overlooked it!)

So far, no one has actually answered her question- there was the usual " the 2nd Amendment ain't about hunting" retort and such.

SO- what IS the Best answer to this question?

If you would allow me the following observations:

I guessing that 60% (or more) of the American public is somehow IN FAVOR of abloshing ALL "assault weapons."
I understand that the public does not understand all aspects of semi-auto rifles ( while most are ignorant, I doubt they will be inclined to do much research on the issue).
If Kerry is elected and if congress slides to the "left" within the next 2-6 years, I believe there is a good chance we will see this thing raise its ugly head once more.
The SCOUS might not be friendly to a Second Amendment challenge ( especilally if a couple of new, libeal justices come on board).

What are the best strategies to educate or "win-over" folks like Cindi and, more especially, the non-shooting pulic?




Folding/telescoping stock -- makes the rifle easier to transport, smaller to carry in a case or over the shoulder
Protruding pistolgrip--just a different design. Many match rifles have a pistol-shaped grip, but it's part of the stock. It's ergonomics is all.
Bayonet mount--Cosmetic only, though some bayo mounts are used as mounts for lights or bipods or whatever. Military look-alike rifles have them to be "correct."
Threaded muzzle--Muzzle brakes, flash suppressors, sound suppressors, all just technological improvements
Grenade launcher--Not sure what this refers to, like the GL device on an M1, maybe? Again, historical accuracy, mostly. Nobody actually has any grenades for it...
30/40 round magazine (I added this one, she probably overlooked it!)--Technology has allowed it, that's about the only reason. Why did we go to self-contained cartridges when black powder guns worked just fine most of the time? Also, you can carry all your ammo in the rifle (hunters are legally limited to 5rnds). Highpower matches require full cap mags.


"I guessing that 60% (or more) of the American public is somehow IN FAVOR of abloshing ALL 'assault weapons.'"


I love this argument. So if 60% favored us putting her to death, then it is clearly the right thing to do, yes? Simple majority rule has a name, it is called "tyranny of the majority." America's founders recognized this threat and built a REPRESENTATIVE democracy in the hopes that learned men would make informed decisions about policy and not leave it up to the great unwashed masses who are full of shit, yup--60% of the time (and usually more!).



Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:18:25 AM EST
I use mine to kill people and small house cats.

SGatr15
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:18:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By PointlessSilly:

Originally Posted By wedge1082:
Just in case there is assaulting that needs to be done.



Like mad crazy zombies... Have you seen that recent British comedy "Shawn of the Dead"? You have any idea how much easier they would have had it, if they had some AR-15's with a Beta-C drums?!?!?!?!



Or if the queen of england decides to start some shit again.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:20:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 11:21:40 AM EST by DriftPunch]
It's an incorrect question. American life isn't about need. It's as leading as "Why does anyone need a motorcycle?" Sure a very few people use them as primary transport, but most use the as recreation. Likewise, our rifles are recreational items that just happen to be protected by the constitution.

The doctorine of need is VERY dangerous to all civil liberties...

For the record, the worst way to answer this question is to say 'I hunt with my AK!"

The best way to argue the point is that the 'AW' ban basically bans all modern weapons, and freezes the firearms clock at around 1938. Technology freezes are never good among enthusiasts.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:20:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 11:21:51 AM EST by Jarhead_22]
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:21:10 AM EST
I need an assault weapon to help keep this country safe from people who would do us harm.

Is that a good enough answer.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:22:08 AM EST
I've got an answer about collapsable stocks.

I like them because it allows my nieces and nephews to use my AR. The stock can be shortened to fit their smaller size.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:22:49 AM EST
Why does anyone need a penis?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:22:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 11:25:00 AM EST by New_Pup_101]
Why does anyone "need" golf clubs?
Why does anyone "need" sports cars with more than 200hp?
Why does anyone "need" expensive clothes, shoes, etc.?

I need an assault weapon for all the "in case sh*ts." For Example: in case an Earthquake, Riot, etc.
I need an assault weapon cuz they're my choice for a recreational activity.
I need an assault weapon cuz it pisses the liberal minded communists off.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:23:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 11:25:13 AM EST by Lumpy196]
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:24:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
To defend me, my loved ones, my home and my country against the worst case scenario if need be, be it crime, natural disaster or a threat to our very way of life.


Its the right and duty of every American Man to own and be proficient with a rifle capable of going to war.



word.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:25:40 AM EST


For the life of me I don't understand why people say, "you don't need one (assualt rifle) to hunt." As far as I know, hunting, is not a right given to you by the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or any of the Amendments, firearm ownership is though. All those cosmetic additions to a rifle doesn’t make them any less lethal.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:28:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By CSUSB_Coyote:

For the life of me I don't understand why people say, "you don't need one (assualt rifle) to hunt." As far as I know, hunting, is not a right given to you by the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or any of the Amendments, firearm ownership is though. All those cosmetic additions to a rifle doesn’t make them any less lethal.



exactly. once you explain this to someone, if they don't understand, then they are an idiot. period.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:29:05 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:31:21 AM EST
We, as individuals, have certain inalienable rights, granted by God, and guaranteed by the Constitution. It doesn't matter if 259,999,999 Americans want to ban assault weapons, we have an unrestricted right to keep and bear arms, regardless of any illegal laws written to the contrary or against the intent of the Second Amendment.*

­* as long as you have the firepower and cajones to back it up.

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:32:15 AM EST
Outside of certain isolated rural areas, how many people really "need" to hunt? Aren't there other options like grocery stores or raising ones own livestock? How about becoming a vegetarian?

Post that question in the Hunting forum and watch the shit fly.

Just to be clear on things; I have no objection aginst hunters or hunters.

I just hate it when people bring up this silly "need(s)" related argument.


I really belive that there's this attitude amongst other gun owners (not just hunters and trap shooters), that if we just give up our "needless" black rifles to the gun-grabbers, that they'll be satisfied and lay-off other gun control measures.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:35:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 11:44:13 AM EST by junebug68]
First of all, I don't have any "assault weapons" (tragic boating accident-long story), but if I did, it would be for recreational shooting, hunting, and to defend myself from critters, 2-legged and 4-legged. Oh, and did I mention so I can join the fight against TYRANNY if necessary?


and finally, it REALLY pisses off Feinstein, Shumer, and all the other liberal scum.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:35:42 AM EST
Just the term "assault weapon" makes me

If I hit you in the head with a brick...is it an assault brick?

Should we call hand guns "murder guns"?

My AR15 is a "protection weapon". My Wislon CQB is a "defense gun".

Fuck it! Let's just make up names for things!

The weapon does not assault, murder, protect or defend. A weapon is a tool. It is the person using the tool that assaults, muders, defends, or protects.

I am very tired of the made up BS term "assault weapon".
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:36:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
To defend me, my loved ones, my home and my country against the worst case scenario if need be, be it crime, natural disaster or a threat to our very way of life.


Its the right and duty of every American Man to own and be proficient with a rifle capable of going to war.



Once again "the Lump" is right on the money.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:38:15 AM EST
Because military style rifles are the best, most efficient small arms for resistance against tyranny.

THAT is your best answer.

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:41:28 AM EST
Why does anyone need an assualt weapon? All they do is give more thrust per squeeze and look evil.

Why does anyone need a Corvette, a Ferrari, or a Porsche? All can go about 3 times the speed limit thus potentially endangering the lives of many and cars kill more people than guns.

Why does anyone need a gas guzzling SUV? They are dangerous to little cars, pollute and waste fuel.

Why does anyone need a 6000+ square foot house? They just take up valuable space and resources such as energy and building materials.

Why does any need more than 2 children? They just contribute to overpopulation and place an additional strain on the worlds limited resources.

Why does anyone need anything above the bare minimum of food and shelter?

Answer to all of the above:

Because we live in a free society (dwindling resource in and of itself) where if you work hard and can afford these things you can have them and because the people who founded this country were probably wiser than anyone who has lived in the ensuing 228 years and they wanted all of us to be able to enjoy the fruits our labors. These wise men also understood that a disarmed populace is not safer but rather subject to any perverse whim of the government.

Brave men fought and died for our freedoms and are still doing so. Just because you don't want a firearm and probably don't have enough sense to safely own one does not give you the right to deny said ownership from those of us who do. BITCH.

Aneurism avoided.



Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:42:13 AM EST
My assault rifles huddle in the corner muttering something about blue helmets and killing things. I want to get rid of them but they scare me.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:42:58 AM EST
Ask them why they need their sniper rifles - oops, I mean their hunting rifles.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:45:32 AM EST
Folding/telescoping stock - telescoping stocks are nice for making a rifle more comfortable to more shooters... or when I'm wearing heavy winter clothes a short stock is nice.
Protruding pistolgrip - way more comfortable for me to shoot.
Bayonet mount - no need, ban them for all I care.
Threaded muzzle - ability to mount different muzzle devices is nice to have.
Grenade launcher - these weren't banned...
30/40 round magazine - having more rounds to shoot between reloards makes for more fun. also better to have 30 rounds instead of 5 rounds in case you ever have to use a rifle as a weapon.

Theres my take. When it comes down to it... its no different than my Camaro. I don't need it, but I like it, and I have loads of fun with it. I don't hurt anyone in the process, so whats the problem?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:46:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By Roadhawk:
Just the term "assault weapon" makes me

If I hit you in the head with a brick...is it an assault brick?

Should we call hand guns "murder guns"?

My AR15 is a "protection weapon". My Wislon CQB is a "defense gun".

Fuck it! Let's just make up names for things!

The weapon does not assault, murder, protect or defend. A weapon is a tool. It is the person using the tool that assaults, muders, defends, or protects.

I am very tired of the made up BS term "assault weapon".



I think if you hit me in the head with a brick it would be a hate crime using an assault building material.

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 12:04:27 PM EST


Freedom means Freedom! Doesn't matter if we are talking about "needing" to live on 500 acres or driving a huge SUV. I am a law abiding person so STFU
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 12:08:14 PM EST

To defend me, my loved ones, my home and my country against the worst case scenario if need be, be it crime, natural disaster or a threat to our very way of life.


Its the right and duty of every American Man to own and be proficient with a rifle capable of going to war.



+1
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 12:17:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 9:49:13 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By michauxii:
During my daily purusal of my favorite hunting/shooting forums, I came across an interesting thread on Hunt America.
In the Legal and Political topics was a discussion about President Bush and the AWB ban. One member,Cindi, made a reply asking why hunters (anyone) would need:

Folding/telescoping stock
Protruding pistolgrip
Bayonet mount
Threaded muzzle
Grenade launcher
30/40 round magazine (I added this one, she probably overlooked it!)

So far, no one has actually answered her question- there was the usual " the 2nd Amendment ain't about hunting" retort and such.

SO- what IS the Best answer to this question?

If you would allow me the following observations:

I guessing that 60% (or more) of the American public is somehow IN FAVOR of abloshing ALL "assault weapons."
I understand that the public does not understand all aspects of semi-auto rifles ( while most are ignorant, I doubt they will be inclined to do much research on the issue).
If Kerry is elected and if congress slides to the "left" within the next 2-6 years, I believe there is a good chance we will see this thing raise its ugly head once more.
The SCOUS might not be friendly to a Second Amendment challenge ( especilally if a couple of new, libeal justices come on board).

What are the best strategies to educate or "win-over" folks like Cindi and, more especially, the non-shooting pulic?



Point out that these guns aren't really 'Assault Weapons', rather they are simply modern guns. Since most modern firearms have been developed for military use, they have military features, but the real 'reason' for owning these guns is that they are generally the most advanced guns of their type.

The AR-15 is the most advanced small-caliber semiauto rifle out there, period. It is the choice of centerfire target shooters by an incredible margin - over 90% - and versions are available for almost any legal purpose from self defense to hunting to long-range target shooting.

The AR-10 & clones replicate the above in intermediate calibers....

Yes, alot of folks hunt with old-fashioned, effectively obselete, designs such as the vernerable 30-30 levergun. Folks also carry obselete weapons, like revolvers, for self defense... That doesn't mean I should be REQUIRED to hunt or defend myself with anything less than the most modern, effective equipment...

Personally, my rifles will likely never be turned on human targets (my 'defensive gun' is generally a small-caliber pistol), I don't practice against such, so the thought that I will 'assault' anyone with any of them is absurd...
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 12:19:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By BigDozer66:
Since there is no such thing as "Assault Weapons" then the argument is null.
Most Americans had no idea what the ban was or did.
If the media had did it's job of informing them of the truth then the majority of American's would have been for it's sunsetting.

BigDozer66



Exactly. There is no such thing.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 1:53:36 PM EST
Some have given excellent answers rejecting the notion of "need" and "justification." "Need" is primary in Communist doctrine, so that word in a question makes the very premise, as well as the poser, suspect. I don't have to justify anything to anyone. How about why they need to pop out more kids for larger welfare checks? Some answer you'd get for that one.

But, how about practicalities? THe "military style" rifle is more useful: one of the military's primary objective is utility over "art." I live in FL, fiberglas and stainless is preferable to fine wood and the finest bluing job. I take the rifle on my boat, so ditto double on the preceeding, and it helps to collapse the stock for maneuverability in a companionway. Threading? Recoil reducers can be useful, there are many types, so make them changeable. Pistol grip vs. straight stock? Try them boith and you tell me. Maybe their wrists are better than mine, but I know which feels better. So, a military rifle isn't something negative, but taking advantage of design and testing by experts (which we all paid for, by the way).
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 2:00:03 PM EST
The question is not one of necessity, but of principle. Individuals may never need an "assault weapon" and yet it is our right to own one. Just as, a certain person may never be discriminated or oppressed for his religion, but that doesn't mean he does not have the right to choose his religion. Our constitution protects the right of the individual to keep and bear arms. And although I do think a line should be drawn on the munitions and weaponry and individual should be able to own, I believe that banning "assault weapons" is over-stepping that line. Furthermore, America was founded on the principle of protecting the rights of the individual. If a nation protects the rights of most of the individuals, that consituting the "Welfare of the People", they protect the rights of the whole. For if on one occassion an individual's rights are tread upon, it will not be long before another injustice is commited, and then another, and so on.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 2:08:15 PM EST
WHAT! There was a ban!? Oh sh#t, you mean that wasnt legal before? Snap! F$ck soccer mom nation! I am tired of defending my ability to have fun and properly defend my household!!! Yes, I own multiple "assault rifles".......WHAT?! It doesnt mean sh$t that I am federal leo and military - they can ALL kiss my a## - who the fvck needs these pacifist f##ks anyway!
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 2:13:04 PM EST
I dont hunt. (not because I have any aversion to it, just I've never went hunting other than shooting squirrels and shit with .22s when I was a kid, and none of my friends hun so I wouldnt have anyone to go with anyway)

I own guns the pussies would refer to as "assault weapons". SO I dont "need" them for hunting. I have them because I want to and I like them.

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 2:14:40 PM EST
#1 Semi Autos are not assult weapons

#2 Why should you get a check - Kerry will give you everything you deserve

#3 Because I want one and am not a criminal

#4 Dumb Cunt should seriously ask herself why do I need to hunt because when the guns are gone the left will be asking that next along with why do "they" need SUVs or Trucks a moped can get you to work and back quick enough.

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 2:17:16 PM EST
It's a trick question as there really is no one quantifying answer to it. 'They' always ask that question like there is going to be a prize for the right answer. Everyone has a slightly different 'REASON' for wanting one. No-one really 'NEEDS' one. We just all 'WANT' one for the same reason we all want anything. Sometimes we can come up with all sorts of statistics, and charts, and photographs, and affidavits, etc., but sometimes it's just simply "BECAUSE I DO!" And because you live in a free country it's within your right to say that!

Just stand up real tall (like you're not ashamed of your answer) and say " Because I'm a/an__________ (put your nationality here) and I want one , that's why.

No-one ever seems to get so hyped about other topics, such as why they inject BOTOX into their faces. Go figure?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 2:25:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
To defend me, my loved ones, my home and my country against the worst case scenario if need be, be it crime, natural disaster or a threat to our very way of life.


Its the right and duty of every American Man to own and be proficient with a rifle capable of going to war.



+...Uh what are we at now 5?

OK +5
CH
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 2:28:26 PM EST
And another thing!
It's only an ASSAULT WEAPON if you use it to assault someone. It's a door stopper if you use it for that. That maybe sounds stupid but think about it. (The opposition has no problem with throwing this kind of bullshit logic at us!) It's not alive so it can't control it's own actions.
It really is just a hunk of metal and plastic.
My wife has one too...only she calls hers a VIBRATOR.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 2:28:36 PM EST
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women"

<­BR>



Oh, and self defense,too
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 2:34:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 2:35:21 PM EST by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 2:37:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 2:56:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 3:05:42 PM EST by Master_Blaster]
The question is irrelevant. No one has any business judging the "needs" of others. My "needs" are life, liberty, & the pursuit of happines, in whatever form I perceive them. How I go about stisfying them is my concern, so long as I do not infringe upon the same needs/rights of others.

Ask 'Cindi' to explain what business it is of hers. Ask her why she feels some inner "need" to stick her nose into the private business of others whom are not causing problems for her or anyone else. Ask her, specifically, why she perceives owners of such items to be potential trouble-makers. Ask her if she is simply biased against such ("evil") things because she "feels" threatened. Ask why she feels so threatened. Ask her to provide rational answers. Ask her...

...& see if she will reply. I think these questions provide a sufficient response, if she can understand the point behind them.

BTW - Please feel free to post this on that site.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:31:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By Captain_Picard:

Originally Posted By Roadhawk:
Just the term "assault weapon" makes me hit
Should we call hand guns "murder guns"?

My AR15 is a "protection weapon". My Wislon CQB is a "defense gun".

Fuck it! Let's just make up names for things!

The weapon does not assault, murder, protect or defend. A weapon is a tool. It is the person using the tool that assaults, muders, defends, or protects.

I am very tired of the made up BS term "assault weapon".



I think if you hit me in the head with a brick it would be a hate crime using an assault building material.

hr


If he hits you quietly, he is also in possession of an unregistered suppressed assault building material.

......And if it's a small brick he is in possession of an unregistered sawed-off assault building material.


OOOOO, he's in big trouble now, that assualt-brick wielding madman with an illegal short-bricked building material hose! Runaway! Runaway!
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