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Posted: 8/26/2004 11:19:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 11:23:21 AM EST by Charging_Handle]
Nope, not the SwiftBoatVets.

Not the Bush campaign.

Not anybody that I can think of.

Nobody is mentioning this.

The one thing that makes me question Kerry's war records most is not that he got medals, but the NUMBER of medals he got. We are talking what, a silver star, a bronze star and 3 purple hearts? Good grief! How many combat vets do you folks know who won 5 medals while in Vietnam, including one that's the nation's 3rd highest award? And most of them were there for a full 12 months, not 4!

This, in conjunction with the stories from the Swiftees only makes his claims look even more doubtful. I mean just about anyone you can name who was in any combat unit was in just as much or more shit than Kerry. Did Kerry ever encounter anything like the Marines did at Hue? Was he ever in the shit as deep as the 101st in some of their fights in the Ashau Valley and Dak To? I mean almost any infantry unit you can name and even the PBR boat crews saw more action than guys on the swift boats. Not taking away anything they did, as they I'm sure were in dangerous situations. But for a guy to be in such a unit for only 4 months and win more medals in those 4 months than most guys who were up to their eyebrows in deep shit for much of a full 12 month tour makes me question his awards. It would almost seem he would have to have received special treatment in order to bring home more medals than probably 98% of second lieutenents who served a full year with units like the 101st in some of the worst fighting of the war.

Anyone else thinking about or mentioning this? I heard one woman on a radio call-in show make light of this. She was talking about her dad in WWII and how he fought for 4 years in that war. He was among those that stormed the beach at Normandy. He only got 1 bronze star in that 4 year period and I'm sure saw 40x the action Kerry did. I seriously doubt had he not had friends in high places that he would have ever received no more than 1 or 2 purple hearts at most, and likely nothing at all!
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:22:37 AM EST
I want somebody to ask him WHY he re-staged and filmed his exploits over there.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:24:02 AM EST
You just don't understand! Kerry is better than any human being ever!

Just look at him!

Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:27:37 AM EST
I want to know why nobody ever questions his senate voting record, or lack ther of for the most part. IMO, this guy is totally unelectable. It scares me to think that this is the best the dems could come up with. I think the Hitlery conspiracy my not be too far off......
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:28:31 AM EST
Because he is a hero. Just ask him.

But you're right... I keep saying to people, if the media diverted a very small percentage of their time from finding crap on Bush toward researching Kerry's record, they'd find a lot.

But he's "their guy" so they take everything at face value.

(I'm a lifelong civvie and thank all]/b] vets for their service... but Kerry's record smacks of grandstanding for future political gain... and that's what drives me nuts about it...)
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:37:45 AM EST
Yep. Seems he loved having that camera following him every step didn't it?

I just can't see how anyone who saw the amount of action he did can win so many medals when people in far worse fights for far longer typically won far less. Again, ubless you have some with influence pulling strings, such a feat would be extremely, extremely rare.

I just don't buy it. If what he did was worth those medals, then every guy who served in the 101st, 25th ID, 5th Marines, etc should have been awarded 20 each.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:28:56 PM EST
It really disturbs me that he planned that far ahead to run for President. What was his motivation for that I wonder?
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:40:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 11:43:02 PM EST by raven]

Originally Posted By UPD415:
It really disturbs me that he planned that far ahead to run for President. What was his motivation for that I wonder?





Kennedy worship. It is very real. As a teenager, Kerry wanted to be JFK. As did Clinton, remember this photo where Clinton decided what he wanted to do with his life?.



They idolized him. Think about Kerry joining the Navy, serving on a patrol boat? Massachusetts? Senator? The initials? He's living in another man's shoes.

My last name's Kennedy, and you would not freaking believe the star-struck look in some peoples' eyes when they think they might actually be meeting a KENNEDY when they hear my name. They draw an excited breath, "Any relation?!?!" Some chicks literally swoon. It's a little creepy.

One of the funniest things that happened to me was when I was checking out a movie on the day JFK Jr. died (national tragedy, of course). The clerk chick was bad-mouthing the Kennedys, saying what scumbags they were, ridiculing the media coverage, she was really going of, then I hand over my membership card........she throws up her hands and says "Of course! I insult one of them to his face! It figures". Funny coincidence/
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:52:29 PM EST
Thanks raven. Good info.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 12:02:14 AM EST
A FRIGGIN' FAKEASS FAG that's what Carrey is...

Fuckers' not gettin' my vote...period....
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 12:07:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By raven:
-snip-


Wow, too bad they are nothing like their 'idol'.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 12:07:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By m98codered:
A FRIGGIN' FAKEASS FAG that's what Carrey is...

Fuckers' not gettin' my vote...period....




Ummm. Ouch.

- BUCC_Guy
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 12:09:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Nope, not the SwiftBoatVets.

Not the Bush campaign.

Not anybody that I can think of.

Nobody is mentioning this.

The one thing that makes me question Kerry's war records most is not that he got medals, but the NUMBER of medals he got. We are talking what, a silver star, a bronze star and 3 purple hearts? Good grief! How many combat vets do you folks know who won 5 medals while in Vietnam, including one that's the nation's 3rd highest award? And most of them were there for a full 12 months, not 4!

This, in conjunction with the stories from the Swiftees only makes his claims look even more doubtful. I mean just about anyone you can name who was in any combat unit was in just as much or more shit than Kerry. Did Kerry ever encounter anything like the Marines did at Hue? Was he ever in the shit as deep as the 101st in some of their fights in the Ashau Valley and Dak To? I mean almost any infantry unit you can name and even the PBR boat crews saw more action than guys on the swift boats. Not taking away anything they did, as they I'm sure were in dangerous situations. But for a guy to be in such a unit for only 4 months and win more medals in those 4 months than most guys who were up to their eyebrows in deep shit for much of a full 12 month tour makes me question his awards. It would almost seem he would have to have received special treatment in order to bring home more medals than probably 98% of second lieutenents who served a full year with units like the 101st in some of the worst fighting of the war.

Anyone else thinking about or mentioning this? I heard one woman on a radio call-in show make light of this. She was talking about her dad in WWII and how he fought for 4 years in that war. He was among those that stormed the beach at Normandy. He only got 1 bronze star in that 4 year period and I'm sure saw 40x the action Kerry did. I seriously doubt had he not had friends in high places that he would have ever received no more than 1 or 2 purple hearts at most, and likely nothing at all!



This is by no means a defense of Kerry, cause I hate the motherfucker, but there was something realised not too long ago that said the the average GI in 'nam saw actual action about 260 days a year, whereas the average GI in WWII saw actual combat only about 40 days a year.

Just a little FYI.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 12:17:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By UPD415:
It really disturbs me that he planned that far ahead to run for President. What was his motivation for that I wonder?



www.newgenevacenter.org/portrait/kennedy.jpg

Kennedy worship. It is very real. As a teenager, Kerry wanted to be JFK. As did Clinton, remember this photo where Clinton decided what he wanted to do with his life?.

www.medaloffreedom.com/JohnFKennedy37.jpg

They idolized him. Think about Kerry joining the Navy, serving on a patrol boat? Massachusetts? Senator? The initials? He's living in another man's shoes.

My last name's Kennedy, and you would not freaking believe the star-struck look in some peoples' eyes when they think they might actually be meeting a KENNEDY when they hear my name. They draw an excited breath, "Any relation?!?!" Some chicks literally swoon. It's a little creepy.

One of the funniest things that happened to me was when I was checking out a movie on the day JFK Jr. died (national tragedy, of course). The clerk chick was bad-mouthing the Kennedys, saying what scumbags they were, ridiculing the media coverage, she was really going of, then I hand over my membership card........she throws up her hands and says "Of course! I insult one of them to his face! It figures". Funny coincidence/



Well, Bubba sure didn't do a good job of emulating his idol.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 12:25:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By m98codered:
A FRIGGIN' FAKEASS FAG that's what Carrey is...

Fuckers' not gettin' my vote...period....

Is that the same mouth you kiss your mother with?..
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 2:55:02 AM EST
Any relation to George Kennedy?Actually I meet him once at a Cleveland airport.Nice guy
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:14:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Yep. Seems he loved having that camera following him every step didn't it?

I just can't see how anyone who saw the amount of action he did can win so many medals when people in far worse fights for far longer typically won far less. Again, ubless you have some with influence pulling strings, such a feat would be extremely, extremely rare.

I just don't buy it. If what he did was worth those medals, then every guy who served in the 101st, 25th ID, 5th Marines, etc should have been awarded 20 each.



The awarding of medals in the military is, unfortunately, sometimes just as political as anything else. The story is told of the C.O. who butted ahead of one of his men and assumed his identity and ordered the man to say nothing just so the C.O. could have a general pin a medal on his chest.

Or of the numerous officers who stayed in HQ while their units were out fighting the war, and then they would submit after-action reports about their exploits and would reccomend themselves for commendations.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:54:17 AM EST
Regarding Kerry: I think he did "18 missions". Presumably some of those missions were more than a day long but I don't think he was in combat that much.

Regarding Clinton: even in the early 1960s he looked like a tool.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:57:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 4:57:48 AM EST by imposter]
This is from 1971:
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:06:02 AM EST
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Vietnam War over ?
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:08:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:15:42 AM EST
Do you mean that yall don't have film crews following you around all day?

When you run for president, don't you want to show clips from the early days? "there I was, posting on ARFCOM... battling it out in the Bear Pit... "
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:16:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:


Anyone else thinking about or mentioning this? I heard one woman on a radio call-in show make light of this. She was talking about her dad in WWII and how he fought for 4 years in that war. He was among those that stormed the beach at Normandy. He only got 1 bronze star in that 4 year period and I'm sure saw 40x the action Kerry did. I seriously doubt had he not had friends in high places that he would have ever received no more than 1 or 2 purple hearts at most, and likely nothing at all!



This is by no means a defense of Kerry, cause I hate the motherfucker, but there was something realised not too long ago that said the the average GI in 'nam saw actual action about 260 days a year, whereas the average GI in WWII saw actual combat only about 40 days a year.

Just a little FYI.



You're right. Especially normal infantry units in Europe. This is extended by the scale of the conflict. A 200 mile front in Europe and the whole damn South Pacific is a lot bigger "board" to avoid and move in than one skinny little country. Helos made it easier to get the troops in the hot spots too.

Of course there are exceptions. I'm sure we had guys in the South Pacific who did a lot more than 40 days a year fighting. In Europe the Armored-Infantry did a lot of scounting/fighting, because as soon as the calmed down in one area they loaded up (mostly in half tracks) and moved foward, leaving someone else behind to secure. If he landed on Normandy he could have very welll been in a Spearhead type force.

The Ardennes Offensive (Battle of the Bulge) lasted about 45 days in itself. 80k Americans killed, wounded, or missing in 45 days
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:03:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 6:32:36 AM EST by imposter]

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
This is by no means a defense of Kerry, cause I hate the motherfucker, but there was something realised not too long ago that said the the average GI in 'nam saw actual action about 260 days a year, whereas the average GI in WWII saw actual combat only about 40 days a year.

Just a little FYI.


I think this is an apples to oranges comparison. The number for WWII includes all GIs, and the number for Vietnam is for combat units only. Considering that 90% of the GIs in Vietnam were in support units, the 260 days figure is simply impossible.

Overall, the KIA rate in Vietnam was relatively low.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:19:58 AM EST
Yesterday don't mean shit.
Kerry actually only served 3 months in Nam.
That first month was basic.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 10:57:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 10:58:20 AM EST by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By imposter:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
This is by no means a defense of Kerry, cause I hate the motherfucker, but there was something realised not too long ago that said the the average GI in 'nam saw actual action about 260 days a year, whereas the average GI in WWII saw actual combat only about 40 days a year.

Just a little FYI.


I think this is an apples to oranges comparison. The number for WWII includes all GIs, and the number for Vietnam is for combat units only. Considering that 90% of the GIs in Vietnam were in support units, the 260 days figure is simply impossible.

Overall, the KIA rate in Vietnam was relatively low.



Bullshit. The demographics applied were the same.

You just love to argue, don't you.

90 percent were in support units? Where do you get this shit? If only 10 percent were actually fighting, I would say the KIA ratio was pretty damn high. You contradicted yourself right there.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 10:58:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 11:44:48 AM EST by imposter]
OK Larry, show your source.

Edited to add:

> - World War II -Korea - Vietnam
>
>Elapsed Time: - ~5 years - ~3 years - >8 years
>Number serving: - 16,353,659 - 5,764,143 - 8,752,000
>Battle Deaths: - 292,131 - 33,667 - 47,393
>Other Deaths: - 115,185 - 3,249 - 10,800
>Wounded: - 671,845 - 103,284 - 153,363
>Total Casualties: - 1,079,162 - 140,200 - 211,556

% of those serving KIA - 1.8% - 0.6% - 0.5%

Link Posted: 8/27/2004 11:00:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Vietnam War over ?



Sure it is, but it was your boy Kerry who brought it up and tried to make it part of his campaign.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 12:31:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Vietnam War over ?



Sure it is, but it was your boy Kerry who brought it up and tried to make it part of his campaign.



Gosh, golly but I wish I were as smart as you think you are about "my boy Kerry" but don't let me stop you from displaying your ignorance about me.

To the point, it doesn't, in the end matter about Kerry's Vietnam record or GWB's lack of one. This entire mess is nothing more than a "mine is bigger than yours" display of gross stupidity. I never have and don't intend to now, base my vote on ANY candidate's military record. Kerry's use of his war record as a reason to vote for him is as stupid as voting for GWB because he is a so-called "wartime" President.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 1:17:31 PM EST
Here's something that really stinks, from David Broder:

In a 2002 conversation, Kerry told me he thought it would be doubly advantageous that "I fought in Vietnam and I also fought against the Vietnam War," apparently not recognizing that some would see far too much political calculation in such a bifurcated record.


Doubly advantageous???

When exactly did he think that? Judging by the movie camera he took with him and having himself filmed looking as ferocious as that gangly goofy patrician sonofabitch could, I'd say he figured this out sometime back in the 60s. What an insidious MFer.

Looks like the wheels are coming off now though. I'm beginning to feel confident about a GWB win.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 1:30:07 PM EST
Just happened to hear Michael Savage comment on that a couple of days ago I think.

He said that Kerry was the most decorated combat vet in the shortest amount of time, therefore his face should be on Mount Rushmore or some currency.

Yes, it strikes me as odd as well.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 1:48:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By jchewie:
Just happened to hear Michael Savage comment on that a couple of days ago I think.

He said that Kerry was the most decorated combat vet in the shortest amount of time, therefore his face should be on Mount Rushmore or some currency.

Yes, it strikes me as odd as well.



I think his face ought to be printed on every urinal deoderant hocky puck. Give me a good target to shoot at when I bleed the old lizard.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 2:17:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Vietnam War over ?



Sure it is, but it was your boy Kerry who brought it up and tried to make it part of his campaign.



Gosh, golly but I wish I were as smart as you think you are about "my boy Kerry" but don't let me stop you from displaying your ignorance about me.

To the point, it doesn't, in the end matter about Kerry's Vietnam record or GWB's lack of one. This entire mess is nothing more than a "mine is bigger than yours" display of gross stupidity. I never have and don't intend to now, base my vote on ANY candidate's military record. Kerry's use of his war record as a reason to vote for him is as stupid as voting for GWB because he is a so-called "wartime" President.

You really are pitiful. You won't even admit that you are voting for Kerry. How sad.

You display your ignorance on just about every post.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 2:39:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Vietnam War over ?



Yeah, but Kerry is the one talking about it nonstop. Probably because he doesn't have any positions on any issues.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 2:49:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 2:50:15 PM EST by wetidlerjr]

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

You really are pitiful. You won't even admit that you are voting for Kerry. How sad.

You display your ignorance on just about every post.



Which would be (if true) somehow worse than your dispay of ignorance on EVERY post ?

Also, your stupid assumptions about my support for Kerry are just that, stupid assumptions and nothing more.
Your arrogance, stupidity and egotistical bullshit concerning me is becoming boring. Try another ploy.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 2:53:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By mace:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Vietnam War over ?



Yeah, but Kerry is the one talking about it nonstop. Probably because he doesn't have any positions on any issues.



Read my post above for an answer.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By LARRYG:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Vietnam War over ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Sure it is, but it was your boy Kerry who brought it up and tried to make it part of his campaign.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Gosh, golly but I wish I were as smart as you think you are about "my boy Kerry" but don't let me stop you from displaying your ignorance about me.

To the point, it doesn't, in the end matter about Kerry's Vietnam record or GWB's lack of one. This entire mess is nothing more than a "mine is bigger than yours" display of gross stupidity. I never have and don't intend to now, base my vote on ANY candidate's military record. Kerry's use of his war record as a reason to vote for him is as stupid as voting for GWB because he is a so-called "wartime" President.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Tidler Jr.
Re vera, cara mea, mea nil refert.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted :: 8/27/2004 5:31:41 PM


Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:15:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By TexasRooter:

Originally Posted By jchewie:
Just happened to hear Michael Savage comment on that a couple of days ago I think.

He said that Kerry was the most decorated combat vet in the shortest amount of time, therefore his face should be on Mount Rushmore or some currency.

Yes, it strikes me as odd as well.



I think his face ought to be printed on every urinal deoderant hocky puck. Give me a good target to shoot at when I bleed the old lizard.



Now there is a money making idea!

Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:23:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 3:26:38 PM EST by vintovka]
Why so many medals? Let's face it the navy has slighly lower standards for officers than enlisted.

and if you are a politically connected officer such as john FORBES kerry and you make it your

business to remind people that your name is john FORBES kerry. and you constantly look to play

the system to advance your future political carrer than no it is not surprissing that he got so many

medals

Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:37:24 PM EST
what I hate is that he's using his medals now as the main reason we should vote for him(kerry: "I'm a war hero." "When I fought for this country and won those medals." "blah blah blah")
yet back them he threw(or the ribbons, same thing symbolicly in this civilian's view) them away
I'm just a civilian and I see it as offensive to throw them away. I see it has being disrespectful to other veterans, the military, and to the purpose of why medals are used in the military.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:42:26 PM EST
that's what happens when the only after action reports and citation reports for kerry's boat are written by kerry himself


Originally Posted By jchewie:
Just happened to hear Michael Savage comment on that a couple of days ago I think.

He said that Kerry was the most decorated combat vet in the shortest amount of time, therefore his face should be on Mount Rushmore or some currency.

Yes, it strikes me as odd as well.

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