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Posted: 10/10/2004 7:34:41 PM EST
I would like to know why many of you guys have such a strong hatred for HK weapons. Many posts seem to bash HKs for some good reasons and many bad reasons. Feel free to flame away.

Chris
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:35:43 PM EST
Hmm...I tend to love HK Pistols....

USP Compact Tactical....*drools*

John
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:36:23 PM EST
I got on HK, while its decent I consider it somewhat overpirced and would not buy it again.

Im not 100% for or agaisnt them, but anything that says HK on it is not instantly the most powerful one in my book.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:36:45 PM EST
I wouldn't trade my USP45 for ANY other pistol.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:37:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 7:38:24 PM EST by ARDOC]
They make fine weapons but there are some problems. 1, HK treats us like shit. 2, their weapons are expensive. 3, HK owners can be snobby. 4, HK treats us like shit. 5, expensive parts and mags.

us = civilian owners and non-LEO types.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:37:18 PM EST
I would love to have a Class III MP5!!!
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:38:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
They make fine weapons but there are some problems. 1, HK treats us like shit. 2, their weapons are expensive. 3, HK owners can be snobby. 4, HK treats us like shit. 5, expensive parts and mags.



I thought you were talking about "Colt" for a moment.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:38:31 PM EST
I buy HKs used, that way I don't pay as much
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:38:57 PM EST
I don't hate 'em. I just don't think that their pistols are worth the money.

Plus, H&K has a marketing blitz that really pushes the "tactical" aspect of their products that so many armchair commandos find appealing.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:38:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 7:39:17 PM EST by ARDOC]
Ugly, after reading your post I agree!
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:39:46 PM EST
I like H&K stuff, though it's pricier than I can currently afford. They also seem to have some policies (like standard capacity mag topics) that snub the civvie market, so I disagree with them there...
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:42:31 PM EST
I own several HK's, pistols and rifles. The only bad thing about any of them was one was a 9mm,
it was a HK 94, a semi automatic. If it was fullauto i would have never gotten rid of it, but it wasn't. so a .308 Galil with a folding stock and 16" barrel took it's place as a compact "Subgun" lol.... yeah i know "Sub" means pistol caliber.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:43:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By mjrowley:
I would love to have a Class III MP5!!!



Please, say "title II" rather than "Class III"

Only dealers are "class III"

Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:44:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
Ugly, after reading your post I agree!



For some reason, I feel like being a smartass tonight.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:47:32 PM EST
Most haters have not or do not own an HK!!!

Everyone of my HK's are worth every penny I spent on 'em
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:47:36 PM EST
Can you blame HK for not selling to the US? They were banned in 1989 then had the SR9 to replaced the banned 91 and that was banned...then in 1997 they were banned for a third time. So I think HK is a little worried about the poltical climate. My hope is when Bush wins his 2nd term HK will see that we have a gun friendly President and will make new weapons at their GA plant.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:48:28 PM EST
I love my USP. Let's me shoot a 1911 style gun in 9mm for a heck of a lot less money. Can carry 15+1 too. Tough as nails, goes bang everytime. I am very confident with this as my primary carry gun.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:50:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By SnapNshoot:
Most haters have not or do not own an HK!!!

Everyone of my HK's are worth every penny I spent on 'em



I am happy with my HKs I have 6 rifles and 3 handguns and would like to own more.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:51:21 PM EST
I have a USP45, I cant really say I hate HK, I just dont care for Mark @HK customer service
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:53:33 PM EST
1911 fan here...SA or Kimber for me...
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:53:47 PM EST
Awesome weapons.....................Way over priced.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:54:38 PM EST
I have a USP40 and a USP45C. AND a USC45/M3...fun as hell. Buy pistols used. They don't break and they last forever AND they are CHEAP!!!
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:54:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By _Ugly_:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
Ugly, after reading your post I agree!



For some reason, I feel like being a smartass tonight.



Your always a smart ass... We need beer damint and cheese!!!!

Hk rocks... Its just special weapons thats fucking it up..
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 7:57:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By UZI4you:
Can you blame HK for not selling to the US? They were banned in 1989 then had the SR9 to replaced the banned 91 and that was banned...then in 1997 they were banned for a third time. So I think HK is a little worried about the poltical climate. My hope is when Bush wins his 2nd term HK will see that we have a gun friendly President and will make new weapons at their GA plant.



Interesting Point, but only the G3 & MP5 tickles my fancy. The rest.... ehhhh.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:02:21 PM EST
I have a P7 PSP and I used to have an SL8-1.

I like my P7, and I liked my SL8-1.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:02:39 PM EST


Originally by Jaybo
They also seem to have some policies (like standard capacity mag topics) that snub the civvie market, so I disagree with them there...




What policies are these about the magazines?

I carry a USP9mm fullsize everyday and trust it with my life completely. They may be more than Glocks and around the same as Sigs, but I don't put a price on my life. They also come with a lifetime guarantee. Sometimes you will always pay more for a name, but HKs quality is top notch.

<­BR>



I like Glocks, Sigs, Walthers, and all the top 1911s also.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:04:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 8:07:46 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By UZI4you:
I would like to know why many of you guys have such a strong hatred for HK weapons. Many posts seem to bash HKs for some good reasons and many bad reasons. Feel free to flame away.

Chris



It's not all HK products that are hated....

HK has been doing some rather disingenuous dealings with the US government lately, falsely representing a perticular rifle they are trying to sell...

The have also earned a reputation as a 'fanboy company' that could sell a bagged dog turd if the bag had a 'HK' on it.... Kind of like Harley Davidson, their reputation is seen as all brand, no basis...

Finally, they have a terrible attitude towards civillian sales...

Personally, I like the USP series & would rather have a G3 than a FAL, but I have no use for the rest of their products, as for every HK product besides the USP, there is an AR variant that does the job better...

MP5 -> Colt SMG
PSG-1 -> SR-25
G-36, XM-8, HK5x series -> M16 & M4
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:04:34 PM EST
I dont like the whole roller lock system they use on everything. Seems to have lots of maintenence for rifle cals.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:04:56 PM EST
i would love to have a HK94, but the price keeps me from even considering it. maybe someday i'll look into one of the ORF clones.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:13:42 PM EST
While I one day dream of owning a MP5K with operational suitcase, they are way to expensive.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:28:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 8:31:18 PM EST by DarkKnight]

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
Ugly, after reading your post I agree!



Definitely +1



Also, If the cost of them seems high, remember that the USP family is comparable in price to Sig and Kimber, so the cost is not unreasonable.

Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:41:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By _Ugly_:
I wouldn't trade my USP45 for ANY other pistol.



+1

It's my pride and joy. My first pistol that I purchased. I was going to go with a glock 21, but loved how USP looked, and quality, so I asked my dealer if they ever get any USP's in, they pull one from the counter that I had overlooked, held it, instantly chose the USP45.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:49:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
They make fine weapons but there are some problems.
1. HK treats us like shit.





2. their weapons are expensive.



Back in the day (when they were imported for sale), this had a lot to do w/ the value of the Deutschmark relative to the U.S. dollar. Their current firearm prices are comparable, if still on the expensive side.



3. HK owners can be snobby.



Most arrogant gun-owner I ever ran across (at the range) was a hunter. By contrast, one of the friendliest I ever met happend to be the proud owner of a brand new HK91 (He even let me burn a couple mags off in his brand new baby). Maybe we should ban guns to end snobbery. And to save the children, too.



4. HK treats us like shit.



Lay the blame where it is most properly deserved: HK Deutschland management. The engineers have nothing to say about it.



5. expensive parts and mags.



Parts are definitely out of bounds. 10-rd USP .45 mags are outrageously priced; the rubber O-ring on the Tactical bbl. costs ~$4.00 a piece. I knew what I was getting into, so I have no one to blame but myself. Oh well - it's th best HG I've ever shot owned.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:49:37 PM EST
I had an HK-93 awhile back. Worked REALLY well and I REALLY enjoyed it. Now however I think they are actually overated for what they cost. I still like them , My interests have just changed.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:53:40 PM EST
Heckler & Koch makes exceptionally fine products and their quality, on the majority of thier weapons, is second to none. Yes, they are expensive, but you really do get what you pay for. There is a reason why almost every CT and SWAT uses the HK as their submachine gun. There is a reason why the MK23 was chosen over Colt's .45 cal submission for SOCOM's official sidearm. That reason is quality and performance. The drawback is cost.
Just my $0.02
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:00:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By _Ugly_:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
They make fine weapons but there are some problems. 1, HK treats us like shit. 2, their weapons are expensive. 3, HK owners can be snobby. 4, HK treats us like shit. 5, expensive parts and mags.



I thought you were talking about "Colt" for a moment.



Difference being, nobody makes a decent HK clone (knockoff) .... and many have tried.

There are MANY quality manufacturers of AR-15's out there. All Colt has going for it is history and the logo.

So ppl grumble abt Colt and go buy a Bushmaster.

HK fans grumble abt HK but have no choice, hence the love-hate relationship.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:04:39 PM EST
I dont hate em I just think there to expensive for my needs/budget.

Magazine's costing a arm and a leg is part of it.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:05:03 PM EST
I don't hate them, but I think they should reconsider their take on the civilian market.

I fired a P7M8 and thought it was very nice. I'm seriously considering getting a USP in 45ACP when I turn 21.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:12:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 9:17:01 PM EST by Rem700PSS]
I'll lay it out.

I all comes down to jealousy...

HK...makes the XM8...the XM8 is replaceing the M16...which is an AR15...the entire reason of these boards. Its going to be the same as wanting to be in second place.

HK...basically does not give a crap about the civilian market. People on these boards are civilian shooters.

HK...makes high quality, expensive shit. Simple as that. You get what you pay for in terms of firearms. The HK9X series are about as sweet as they come...but they are expensive. You can easily get a $600 AR while a HK9X reaches around $2k.

HK...is German. A lot of people here like American products and beleive the everything in America...should be American. HK is better quality than everything made in the US...sorry...but thats the way it is. Don't beleive me...name a better SMG than the MP5. Name a better assualt rifle than the XM8. Name a better handgun, in all honesty, better than the MK23. Sniper Rifle, semi-auto, name one thats better than the PSG-1, stock.

HK is the best and people, here, are reluctant to accept it.

EDIT: Forgot to add, I'm as PRO-HK as they come. They are #1 in my books FAR FAR FAR ahead of anyone else in everything!
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:12:49 PM EST
I love HK weapons. Every one I have fired was nice.

I hate them because I can't afford them I'll have to stick to clones... which I can barely afford.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:22:43 PM EST
Personally, I find nothing wrong with any of the HK firearms. To me it is just personal preference(ie tickles your fancy) and the amount of money you want to spend.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:30:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 9:32:21 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:
I'll lay it out.

I all comes down to jealousy...

HK...makes the XM8...the XM8 is replaceing the M16...which is an AR15...the entire reason of these boards. Its going to be the same as wanting to be in second place. Well, HK basically has lied thru their teeth about the XM8, and is in the process of attempting to rip off our government & run home with OUR tax dollars.. That does tend to PISS PEOPLE OFF, you know

HK...basically does not give a crap about the civilian market. People on these boards are civilian shooters.

HK...makes high quality, expensive shit. Simple as that. You get what you pay for in terms of firearms. The HK9X series are about as sweet as they come...but they are expensive. You can easily get a $600 AR while a HK9X reaches around $2k. And the AR will outshoot it's HK roller-lock counterpart any day. As I said before, for every HK long-arm there is an AR series weapon that is FAR superior

HK...is German. A lot of people here like American products and beleive the everything in America...should be American. HK is better quality than everything made in the US...sorry...but thats the way it is. Don't beleive me...name a better SMG than the MP5. Name a better assualt rifle than the XM8. Name a better handgun, in all honesty, better than the MK23. Sniper Rifle, semi-auto, name one thats better than the PSG-1, stock. I'll give you the USP series. But as for the rest, the Colt's 9 is better than the MP5, the M-4 is FAR superior to the XM-8, and the Knight's SR-25 is FAR better than the PSG-1. Period

HK is the best and people, here, are reluctant to accept it.

EDIT: Forgot to add, I'm as PRO-HK as they come. They are #1 in my books FAR FAR FAR ahead of anyone else in everything!




PS: You're exactly the kind of 'fanboy' I mentioned in my original response...
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:33:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:
...Name a better assualt rifle than the XM8...



That'd be easy, but I promised to keep my trap shut. It'll be made public in its own due time. You have no idea.

However, I'm highly biased in favor of the USP Tactical, though.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:48:31 PM EST
I Like H&k But I dont Like Crappy Clones That are slaped togher
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:50:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 9:51:59 PM EST by magnum_99]

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:
I'll lay it out.

I all comes down to jealousy...

HK...makes the XM8...the XM8 is replaceing the M16...which is an AR15...the entire reason of these boards. Its going to be the same as wanting to be in second place. Well, HK basically has lied thru their teeth about the XM8, and is in the process of attempting to rip off our government & run home with OUR tax dollars.. That does tend to PISS PEOPLE OFF, you know

HK...basically does not give a crap about the civilian market. People on these boards are civilian shooters.

HK...makes high quality, expensive shit. Simple as that. You get what you pay for in terms of firearms. The HK9X series are about as sweet as they come...but they are expensive. You can easily get a $600 AR while a HK9X reaches around $2k. And the AR will outshoot it's HK roller-lock counterpart any day. As I said before, for every HK long-arm there is an AR series weapon that is FAR superior

HK...is German. A lot of people here like American products and beleive the everything in America...should be American. HK is better quality than everything made in the US...sorry...but thats the way it is. Don't beleive me...name a better SMG than the MP5. Name a better assualt rifle than the XM8. Name a better handgun, in all honesty, better than the MK23. Sniper Rifle, semi-auto, name one thats better than the PSG-1, stock. I'll give you the USP series. But as for the rest, the Colt's 9 is better than the MP5, the M-4 is FAR superior to the XM-8, and the Knight's SR-25 is FAR better than the PSG-1. Period

HK is the best and people, here, are reluctant to accept it.

EDIT: Forgot to add, I'm as PRO-HK as they come. They are #1 in my books FAR FAR FAR ahead of anyone else in everything!




PS: You're exactly the kind of 'fanboy' I mentioned in my original response...




Damn Dave, you and I agree on something!


HK simply is Teutonically elitist and overpriced.

They have an air of a German superiority complex where there are other designs that are more modern and advanced. Even the AR-15, which is 40 years old, is infinitely more advanced as a result of its constant development.

The G3 sucks. Shitty ergos, shitty sights, shitty recoil impulse, shitty spiral damage to brass, shitty roller locking mechanism that only Steyr-Aug knows how to unlock --just plain shitty.

The USP--don't get me started. The grip is HUGE, the gun is super blocky, way overpriced, and basically superfluous.

PSG-1? HA! $10,000 for a whored-up G3? I'll take an SR-25 any day.

MP-5 is their best effort and a damn near perfect sub-gun--but why can't I get one in semi-auto Mssrs. Heckler and Koch? Oh, that's right, lowly citizens need not apply.

And that abortion known as the XM-8? Would be the biggest mistake our military ever made in the way of small arms if that POS is adopted.


Actually, HK's are fine weapons for what they are.

But they are NOT God's gift to firearms and therefore shouldn't be priced as though they are.

I just don't see the fascination.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 10:01:11 PM EST
I think HK makes some of the best products out there. They just seem to have some shitty customer serrvice.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:10:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 4:17:16 PM EST by UZI4you]


Damn Dave, you and I agree on something!


HK simply is Teutonically elitist and overpriced.
I read a very interesting article in FORBES two years ago which talked about how Mercedes-Benz was losing market share, and there was quality problems when it merged with Chrysler. The what they found out was that before the German company would just build a car to the highest quality and then set a price. So of course the car came with a huge price tag. When they merged with Chrysler they set the price first and then tried to build the car, and had to cut corners to meet their pre-set target price. As a result quality went down and Benz began to loose the Luxury car market. Apply that to HK they engineer weapons to the highest quality...sometimes they over build their guns like the P7M10 .40cal. But at the end of the day HK guns are built to last. According to the MP5 machine gun book there is a MP5 which was built in 1991 and has over 571,000 rounds through it and it is still running.

They have an air of a German superiority complex where there are other designs that are more modern and advanced. Even the AR-15, which is 40 years old, is infinitely more advanced as a result of its constant development. HK is always advancing new weapons, I don't see another company that is commited to weapons for military or law enforcement other then HK. FN is a close 2nd.

The G3 sucks. Shitty ergos, shitty sights, shitty recoil impulse, shitty spiral damage to brass, shitty roller locking mechanism that only Steyr-Aug knows how to unlock --just plain shitty. Well HK G3s are built to function and shoot. They are built for the military NOT for reloaders...stick with a bolt action if you don't want to damage your brass. The sights are simple to use post sights...but since you need a thesaurus for the word SHIT and you do not like the sights HK has built one of the best scope mounts for the G3. Which can be used with the best German optics and will stand up to military conditions.
I know that if you know what would hit the fan I would be very glad to have my HK91 at my side.


The USP--don't get me started. The grip is HUGE, the gun is super blocky, way overpriced, and basically superfluous. The USP was made just for the US market, and a USP is not overly priced compared to Kimbers or SIG. I bought my used USP for $500.

PSG-1? HA! $10,000 for a whored-up G3? I'll take an SR-25 any day. The PSG-1 has been one the longest selling HK rifle in the US. From the mid 80's until Clinton banned them and then banned them again. You get what you pay for....and the PSG-1 has not always been 10,000.

MP-5 is their best effort and a damn near perfect sub-gun--but why can't I get one in semi-auto Mssrs. Heckler and Koch? Oh, that's right, lowly citizens need not apply. Oh that is right ,they have been banned since 1989 that is why you can't have a HK 94. Unless you buy a preban.

And that abortion known as the XM-8? Would be the biggest mistake our military ever made in the way of small arms if that POS is adopted. Get ready becasue it will be adopted

Actually, HK's are fine weapons for what they are.

But they are NOT God's gift to firearms and therefore shouldn't be priced as though they are.

I just don't see the fascination.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:11:47 PM EST
Somebody must have forgot to remind me that I hate HKs...
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:15:42 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:16:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 4:29:50 PM EST by A-nus]
H&K weapons are only over priced because every body wants them, everybody wants them because they are the best. period

The poor customer service is an internet legend, their customer service is second to none, and that is from personal experience.(and i'm just a lowly civilan)
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:16:05 PM EST
I have one of their pistol and I like it a lot.
However, I think their products are over priced and their customer service sucks.
I don't think I will ever buy another H&K product.
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