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Posted: 12/14/2016 12:32:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2016 12:35:13 PM EST by Powerkicker]
I don't get it. Why is there a need for the existence of punishable crimes that have no victim of that crime? How does carrying a weapon with no permit become a crime? For that matter, how does using drugs in your own home become a crime? Why is gambling among consenting adults illegal? Help me understand.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:34:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By Powerkicker:
I don't get it. Help me understand.
View Quote



You were not put upon this earth to "get it".
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:35:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By Powerkicker:
I don't get it. Why is there a need for the existence of punishable crimes that have no victim of that crime? How does carrying a weapon with no permit become a crime? For that matter, how does using drugs in your own home become a crime? Help me understand.
View Quote


this is easy..

to get citizens to behave in ways that society desires and to prevent citizens from doing things that society finds distasteful. also to provide some level of control over certain segments of society to insure conformance to standards.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:36:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By Powerkicker:
I don't get it. Why is there a need for the existence of punishable crimes that have no victim of that crime? How does carrying a weapon with no permit become a crime? For that matter, how does using drugs in your own home become a crime? Help me understand.
View Quote



It hinges on what is deemed an acceptable risk.

Some of these crimes do not add up, you are right.

Other apparently victimless crimes have wider implications and impacts, and are subject to legal restriction.

Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:36:48 PM EST
There's always a victim.


Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:38:21 PM EST
In a lot of cases it's one group imposing their morality on the rest of the population.

I agree with some of them and disagree with most of them.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:39:04 PM EST
Look.....prostitution is illegal because if it weren't, marriage would be a thing of the past.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:39:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2016 12:40:13 PM EST by 1Andy2]
Because there's only one avenue other people have to boss you around without risk of getting punched in the nose for their trouble. Government. You may not have noticed, but humans LOVE to boss eachother around.

Any legislator who proposes more than 2 new laws (or amendments to existing laws) in their career should be sterilized.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:40:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 556therapy:
Look.....prostitution is illegal because if it weren't, marriage would be a thing of the past.
View Quote


Are there still marriages in Nevada?
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:40:26 PM EST
It's legal to sell stuff.

It's legal to fuck.

Why is it illegal to sell a good fuck?
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:41:29 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ceetee:
It's legal to sell stuff.

It's legal to fuck.

Why is it illegal to sell a good fuck?
View Quote



Pornography isn't generally illegal. You can pay someone to fuck... so long as you're just paying them to "act" in a film.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:42:35 PM EST
Lawyers, posing as legislators, pass 'laws' to give the DA a more effective toolbox in case someone does something they don't approve of.

Hence, why we have way too many fucking 'laws'.

Its a protection racket to line their pockets at our expense.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:42:39 PM EST
To generate revenue
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:42:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:



Pornography isn't generally illegal. You can pay someone to fuck... so long as you're just paying them to "act" in a film.
View Quote


So, Patrick Bateman was doing it right then!
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:44:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2016 12:44:28 PM EST by Zack3g]
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:44:18 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By John-in-austin:



You were not put upon this earth to "get it".
View Quote


I know right! Thankfully we have people like you to unquestionably enforce arbitrary rules...since I'm sure you know what's best for us. I feel safer already.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:46:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2016 12:47:51 PM EST by warkittens]
Originally Posted By ceetee:
It's legal to sell stuff.

It's legal to fuck.

Why is it illegal to sell a good fuck?
View Quote



Because the gov't. hasn't found an effective way to collect a tax on it.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:48:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Agent_Funky:



It hinges on what is deemed an acceptable risk.

Some of these crimes do not add up, you are right.

Other apparently victimless crimes have wider implications and impacts, and are subject to legal restriction.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Agent_Funky:
Originally Posted By Powerkicker:
I don't get it. Why is there a need for the existence of punishable crimes that have no victim of that crime? How does carrying a weapon with no permit become a crime? For that matter, how does using drugs in your own home become a crime? Help me understand.



It hinges on what is deemed an acceptable risk.

Some of these crimes do not add up, you are right.

Other apparently victimless crimes have wider implications and impacts, and are subject to legal restriction.


Generally, this.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:50:03 PM EST
How would government keep growing more powerful if they stop making laws that restrict people?
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:50:04 PM EST
politicians pandering to the public that they're 'tough on crime'
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:52:00 PM EST
lol
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:52:48 PM EST
Government, acting as the proxy for "society," is the default victim, and deems itself deserving of restitution. This recompense is coerced from the perceived perpetrator at the threat of imprisonment.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 12:59:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FL4REAL:
How would government keep growing more powerful if they stop making laws that restrict people?
View Quote



Government is a function of society. Both are weakened by poor lawmaking.

Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:04:59 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Agent_Funky:



Government is a function of society. Both are weakened by poor lawmaking.
View Quote

Yeah. Tell us more about how Brexit is going. Big government operates independently of societal viewpoints. The "people" are the losers in this game. They give, in return for their generosity, even more is taken.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:06:35 PM EST
Law makers gonna law make.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:11:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2016 1:12:29 PM EST by ronin556]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 556therapy:
Look.....prostitution is illegal because if it weren't, marriage would be a thing of the past.
View Quote


Prostitution is legal in

New Zealand
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Brazil
CANADA
Denmark
France
Germany
Greece
Netherlands
Japan


I am assuming none of these countries have marriages.
BECAUSE SEX IS NOT THE ONLY REASON FOR MARRIAGE
have you hear of love? guess not
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:13:06 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ronin556:


Prostitution is legal in

New Zealand
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Brazil
CANADA
Denmark
France
Germany
Greece
Netherlands
Japan


I am assuming none of these countries have marriages
View Quote


Ironically (or not, depending on your viewpoint) outside of Brazil none of these countries are reproducing with native populations at a positive rate.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:14:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sylvan:


Ironically (or not, depending on your viewpoint) outside of Brazil none of these countries are reproducing with native populations at a positive rate.
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Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By ronin556:


Prostitution is legal in

New Zealand
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Brazil
CANADA
Denmark
France
Germany
Greece
Netherlands
Japan


I am assuming none of these countries have marriages


Ironically (or not, depending on your viewpoint) outside of Brazil none of these countries are reproducing with native populations at a positive rate.

native birthrate decline as income and standard of living increase
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:15:02 PM EST
People get married in Nevada and prostitution is legal there.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:17:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By Powerkicker:
I don't get it. Why is there a need for the existence of punishable crimes that have no victim of that crime? How does carrying a weapon with no permit become a crime? For that matter, how does using drugs in your own home become a crime? Why is gambling among consenting adults illegal? Help me understand.
View Quote


I think in some crimes where the "state" is the victim it's about revenue. But in other cases it's due to the other crimes that the "victimless" crimes lead to. Such as drug use. Drug use especially opiates, methamphetamine, and pills lead to large amount of crimes with legit victims. Theft is a huge crime committed by a meth head or heroin junkie. A lot of times the only way to catch and punish a thief is to catch them with felony drugs since they move the stolen property so fast you can't find it or locating enough evidence to secure a conviction by a jury trial is nearly impossible.

I hate most victimless crimes but I have to remember that in the case of drugs the victimless crime might be the only crime we can do anything about knowing they are a burglary and theft suspect.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:19:59 PM EST
uhhhh do you even revenue generation bro? The "state" becomes the victim and you pay them for your "Crimes" via fines, and fees and *IF* you victimless crime is bad enough to get you jail time the federal government pays the state via additional funding and grants. It is all revenue generation, just not for you
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:20:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:20:17 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Agent_Funky:



Government is a function of society. Both are weakened by poor lawmaking.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Agent_Funky:
Originally Posted By FL4REAL:
How would government keep growing more powerful if they stop making laws that restrict people?



Government is a function of society. Both are weakened by poor lawmaking.


you are wasting your time

this forum doesn't grok nuance
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:26:56 PM EST
Control and revenue generation
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:28:01 PM EST
Because all societies are based on a moral code, an agreed upon set of values and mores which are often memorialized and enforced by law because that is what THEY WANT. When not enough people continue to share that moral code, the civilization either ends or it evolves into something else.

We are currently "evolving" from the moral code agreed upon largely at the founding of our nation- and in large measure responsible for it's ascendancy, into "something else". Remains to be seen whether that is a good or bad thing.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:31:52 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Will:
Because all societies are based on a moral code, an agreed upon set of values and mores which are often memorialized and enforced by law because that is what THEY WANT. When not enough people continue to share that moral code, the civilization either ends or it evolves into something else.

We are currently "evolving" from the moral code agreed upon largely at the founding of our nation- and in large measure responsible for it's ascendancy, into "something else". Remains to be seen whether that is a good or bad thing.
View Quote


This is a logical answer.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:34:37 PM EST
Wasn't there a Jefferson quote about laws only being valid if there was a real victim?
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:35:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By st0newall:


this is easy..

to get citizens to behave in ways that the Government elite desires and to prevent citizens from doing things that the Government elite finds distasteful. also to provide some level of control over certain segments of society to insure conformance to what the Government elite wants.
View Quote


FIFY
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:41:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2016 1:42:08 PM EST by FL4REAL]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Will:
Because all societies are based on a moral code, an agreed upon set of values and mores which are often memorialized and enforced by law because that is what THEY WANT. When not enough people continue to share that moral code, the civilization either ends or it evolves into something else.

We are currently "evolving" from the moral code agreed upon largely at the founding of our nation- and in large measure responsible for it's ascendancy, into "something else". Remains to be seen whether that is a good or bad thing.
View Quote

Maybe we're evolving back to what the founders intended. To say the founders would have jumped on-board the last 100 years of nonsense is quite a stretch. "I say good man, that fuel can there, is that preban? I'll need to see your papers."
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:42:31 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By macman37:
In a lot of cases it's one group imposing their morality on the rest of the population.

I agree with some of them and disagree with most of them.
View Quote




This.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:45:00 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Powerkicker:


Are there still marriages in Nevada?
View Quote



Yes. Because there are guys out there that can't even get laid i a whorehouse with a stack of $100 bills in their hand.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:47:45 PM EST
They will say that the state is a "victim". Nevermind how you confront your accuser in that case.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:50:30 PM EST
Many of those laws exist because the "man" (big government) wants his cut...
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:51:30 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mcantu:
Wasn't there a Jefferson quote about laws only being valid if there was a real victim?
View Quote

Jefferson proposed a law in Virginia making sodomy punishable by castration.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:51:52 PM EST
Fucked up morality and role of the state.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 1:56:19 PM EST
Gambling among consenting adults is illegal only because the state is not getting a chance to collect money somehow.






Link Posted: 12/14/2016 2:04:56 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Because government needs to be involved in everything in order to justify its continued growth.
View Quote


The majority of "moral" laws and "victimless crimes" legislation stems from an era of much smaller government.

In fact, as these laws pass by the wayside, our government has become larger and more intrusive.

But the 8th grade understanding of Heinlein is appreciated.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 2:14:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FL4REAL:

Maybe we're evolving back to what the founders intended. To say the founders would have jumped on-board the last 100 years of nonsense is quite a stretch. "I say good man, that fuel can there, is that preban? I'll need to see your papers."
View Quote



Yea, except we seem to be missing the "God" part....and NOBODY who has studied the least amount of history- outside of public grade school, can dispute that that was in very large measure a part of the original underpinning of this nations founding.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 2:16:11 PM EST
It's a way to make the revenue machine propel itself.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 2:25:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Will:



Yea, except we seem to be missing the "God" part....and NOBODY who has studied the least amount of history- outside of public grade school, can dispute that that was in very large measure a part of the original underpinning of this nations founding.
View Quote

How do you figure that? There's an all out assault on Christianity these days. If it didn't matter it wouldn't even get addressed. Never mind Trump just about started preaching at rallies. Stop listening to the media and the resident atheists here.
Link Posted: 12/14/2016 2:25:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By Powerkicker:
I don't get it. Why is there a need for the existence of punishable crimes that have no victim of that crime? How does carrying a weapon with no permit become a crime? For that matter, how does using drugs in your own home become a crime? Why is gambling among consenting adults illegal? Help me understand.
View Quote


Because "victimless" isn't really an accurate description.

The user who is smoking crack in the privacy of his own home may still be harming others due to his addition, whether it's he's stealing from his neighbor to buy his drugs, neglecting his kids, or calling in sick all the time at work.

Very little that we do really has zero impact on someone else. That's the nature of living in a social system.

Having said all that, it's still a valid question to ask as to whether a certain act or behavior has sufficient impact on others so as to trigger legitimate governmental restriction. But simply trying to classify an act as "victimless" and then using that to argue your point is worthless.
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