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Posted: 3/15/2011 12:52:12 PM EST
I thought piracy on the high seas was an automatic death sentence. They were all caught on the ship,so why the need for a trial/
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 12:54:47 PM EST
I was curious about this myself.

Is it to not look like international bullies?

Link Posted: 3/15/2011 12:57:07 PM EST
Eric Holder and skin color.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 12:57:20 PM EST
Because more money can be extorted from U.S. taxpayers by trying them.'
Far less profitable to just shoot them.
It's the American way!!
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 12:57:44 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:01:26 PM EST
Anyone involved in a death during the commission of a felony is considered to be an accomplices to murder, and would get the death penalty (if American anyway) .
I wish they would just shoot them all instead of bringing them here for trial, 12 bullets =$12?, 12 trials and 1200 man years in prison= $$$$$
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:02:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Eric Holder and skin color.

Sometimes it's just that simple.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:04:52 PM EST
Because we're the good guys and WE follow the rules. And the rules say you've got to give them a fair trial before you hang 'em.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:05:15 PM EST
We're 'civilized'.

To a fault.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:06:45 PM EST
Caught in the act, pirates should be executed.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:08:45 PM EST
Because a trial allows politicians to get their name in the news for a few months, thereby furthering the illusion that they are actually doing something good for their serfs....eeerrr...I mean constituents.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:22:38 PM EST
Bring back the gibbets on Gibbet Island, New York...err sorry Ellis Island, New York.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:24:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By redoubt:
Because we're the good guys and WE follow the rules. And the rules say you've got to give them a fair trial before you hang 'em.

What rules?
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:27:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By redoubt:
Because we're the good guys and WE follow the rules. And the rules say you've got to give them a fair trial before you hang 'em.


What rules say that?
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:29:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 1:29:45 PM EST by stockshift]
Originally Posted By redoubt:
And the rules say you've got to give them a fair trial before you hang 'em.


Wasn't the captain basically considered the equivalent of a judge while his ship was out to sea? I mean if a captain can marry people (as a justice of the peace on land can) then why not criminal proceedings as well?



Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:29:47 PM EST
Because we are "civilized"
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:30:07 PM EST
Unemployed Lawyers need clients.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:44:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Originally Posted By redoubt:
Because we're the good guys and WE follow the rules. And the rules say you've got to give them a fair trial before you hang 'em.


What rules say that?


The rules that say, "We aren't them."

If you storm a ship at sea, capture the crew and then execute them, you are a pirate.

If you storm a ship at sea, capture the crew, put them on trial to prove they aren't the lawful crew, and then execute them, you are the avenging fist of justice.

I see nothing wrong with the captain of a naval vessel putting on a court-martial and trying them at sea, but the original question was why do they have to be tried.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:45:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By redoubt:
Because we're the good guys and WE follow the rules. And the rules say you've got to give them a fair trial before you hang 'em.

didn't the pirates essentially say FU and your rules?? if caught in the act, shoot them.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:47:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By redoubt:
Because we're the good guys and WE follow the rules. And the rules say you've got to give them a fair trial before you hang 'em.


Which rules? Serious question.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:51:10 PM EST
There are too many candy asses running the country today. If we just make an example out of this bunch the next bunch might think twice before hijacking an American vessel. Has there been anymore Russian boats jacked?
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:53:21 PM EST
technically i think they're supposed to be imprisoned for life, but common sense says shoot them on sight and be done with it
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:54:39 PM EST
Originally Posted by: Bobby_The_Hun
Unemployed ACLU Lawyers need clients.


Fixed it for you.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:54:40 PM EST
I have nothing to add to this thread but this:
Somalian Pirates We
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:55:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By redoubt:
Because we're the good guys and WE follow the rules. And the rules say you've got to give them a fair trial before you hang 'em.


Which rules? Serious question.


See my post a few posts up.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:56:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
I thought piracy on the high seas was an automatic death sentence. They were all caught on the ship,so why the need for a trial/


You thought wrong. In fact, in the 1700s they'd prosecute pirates before they hanged them. I think the current law dates back to the early 1800s and calls for a life in prison sentence.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:57:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Eric Holder and skin color.


Double fail.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:57:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By hootch13:

Originally Posted By redoubt:
Because we're the good guys and WE follow the rules. And the rules say you've got to give them a fair trial before you hang 'em.

didn't the pirates essentially say FU and your rules?? if caught in the act, shoot them.


Yeah, and so do bank robbers, shoplifters, OJ Simpson and other criminals, but we give them trials.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:02:02 PM EST
Just machinegun that filth...
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:02:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 2:03:16 PM EST by hootch13]

Originally Posted By redoubt:
Originally Posted By hootch13:

Originally Posted By redoubt:
Because we're the good guys and WE follow the rules. And the rules say you've got to give them a fair trial before you hang 'em.

didn't the pirates essentially say FU and your rules?? if caught in the act, shoot them.


Yeah, and so do bank robbers, shoplifters, OJ Simpson and other criminals, but we give them trials.

agreed, however something in me says "shoot them and be done with it." i'm not really sure why.

from wikipedia:

Title 18 U.S.C. § 1651 states:

Whoever, on the high seas, commits the crime of piracy as defined by the law of nations, and is afterwards brought into or found in the United States, shall be imprisoned for life.

Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:05:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By hootch13:

agreed, however something in me says "shoot them and be done with it." i'm not really sure why.

from wikipedia:

Title 18 U.S.C. § 1651 states:

Whoever, on the high seas, commits the crime of piracy as defined by the law of nations, and is afterwards brought into or found in the United States, shall be imprisoned for life.



Gotta prove that part in court. I don't have a problem with shooting them once they've been tried. We're a nation of laws and we don't get to pick and choose which laws we follow.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:06:14 PM EST
Walk the plank!
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:08:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By redoubt:
Originally Posted By hootch13:

agreed, however something in me says "shoot them and be done with it." i'm not really sure why.

from wikipedia:

Title 18 U.S.C. § 1651 states:

Whoever, on the high seas, commits the crime of piracy as defined by the law of nations, and is afterwards brought into or found in the United States, shall be imprisoned for life.



Gotta prove that part in court. I don't have a problem with shooting them once they've been tried. We're a nation of laws and we don't get to pick and choose which laws we follow.

Can't shoot 'em. "Shall be imprisoned for life."
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:11:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By redoubt:
Originally Posted By hootch13:

agreed, however something in me says "shoot them and be done with it." i'm not really sure why.

from wikipedia:

Title 18 U.S.C. § 1651 states:

Whoever, on the high seas, commits the crime of piracy as defined by the law of nations, and is afterwards brought into or found in the United States, shall be imprisoned for life.



Gotta prove that part in court. I don't have a problem with shooting them once they've been tried. We're a nation of laws and we don't get to pick and choose which laws we follow.

true. it just seems that engaging in "piracy" would be prima facie evidence by itself; caught in the act = guilty. however i do see your point.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:11:23 PM EST
What pirates? I don't see any stinking pirates. Some guy got drunk and made up that story about us making them walk the plank.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:14:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 2:20:42 PM EST by 103]
Originally Posted By redoubt:
Because we're the good guys and WE follow the rules. And the rules say you've got to give them a fair trial before you hang 'em.


Actually, the rules are that you can kill them while they are committing piracy.

ETA: Note, "while" they are committing piracy. Why even bother capturing them?
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:18:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By redoubt:
Because we're the good guys and WE follow the rules. And the rules say you've got to give them a fair trial before you hang 'em.


Uhm...no?

I wonder if the Marines held trials when they went and spanked Tripoli....
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:21:33 PM EST
due process is due––not just when it's convenient.

if a pirate is fighting a boarding party, then the range is hot. but if he surrenders, then some sort of tribunal is morally required. if this is not the case, then there is no obligation for due process for anyone.

the system sucks, and often results in injustice. but any other system results in more injustice.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:25:54 PM EST
because we've become pussies.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:29:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 2:30:25 PM EST by pdg45acp]
Great, now we Americans can pay somewhere between $30,000 and $50,000 a year to feed them, keep a roof over their heads, keep clothes and give them free health care..

They will have it better in US prison they they had it in the home land and the prison guards will probably be nicer than the Somali warlords.

We don't have the money to keep doing this.

What are WE going to do without for this to happen.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:32:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
I thought piracy on the high seas was an automatic death sentence. They were all caught on the ship,so why the need for a trial/


IIRC most developed countries abolished the death penalty. That might have something to do with it.

Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:34:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By LightningII:
because we've become pussies.


Yep, we became pussies in the early 1800s.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:35:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
Great, now we Americans can pay somewhere between $30,000 and $50,000 a year to feed them, keep a roof over their heads, keep clothes and give them free health care..

They will have it better in US prison they they had it in the home land and the prison guards will probably be nicer than the Somali warlords.

We don't have the money to keep doing this.

What are WE going to do without for this to happen.

Very few pirates actually get sent to the US for trial. Usually we find another country for trial. Only those that attack US flagged ships come to the US.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:36:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By Wash-Ar15:
I thought piracy on the high seas was an automatic death sentence. They were all caught on the ship,so why the need for a trial/


because the liberals want to coach them into filing a lawsuit against the military for stopping their piracy
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:43:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:46:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By dport:
Originally Posted By redoubt:
Originally Posted By hootch13:

agreed, however something in me says "shoot them and be done with it." i'm not really sure why.

from wikipedia:

Title 18 U.S.C. § 1651 states:

Whoever, on the high seas, commits the crime of piracy as defined by the law of nations, and is afterwards brought into or found in the United States, shall be imprisoned for life.



Gotta prove that part in court. I don't have a problem with shooting them once they've been tried. We're a nation of laws and we don't get to pick and choose which laws we follow.

Can't shoot 'em. "Shall be imprisoned for life."


Change the law.

"......shall be tried by the Captain of the arresting vessel, and after being found guilty of piracy, shot through the head and fed to the sharks."

Saves money and innocent lives. And feeds hungry sharks.



Such a law would be unconstitutional on its face.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:48:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 2:50:54 PM EST by dport]
Originally Posted By 103:

Such a law would be unconstitutional on its face.


Indeed. It's amusing to watch people who complain about liberals doing unConstitutional things propose doing unConstitutional things themselves.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:48:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 2:49:16 PM EST by Old_Painless]
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 2:51:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By 103:
Such a law would be unconstitutional on its face.


No it wouldn't.

There is nothing in the Constitution that would prevent such a law.



Read it again.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 3:09:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 3:14:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By dport:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By 103:
Such a law would be unconstitutional on its face.


No it wouldn't.

There is nothing in the Constitution that would prevent such a law.



Read it again.


What part of "change the law" do you find confusing?


What part of "due process" do you find confusing?

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