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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 11/3/2001 8:41:24 PM EDT
Army National Gurad? Don't they go to the sane BT as rest of the Army? I'm not looking for a flame fest just really want to know.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 8:50:03 PM EDT
I have a few National Guard guys that I work with and I am always picking on them because the one weekend a month is just barely enough to keep qualified. A really good friend of mine is usualy one of my victims, he tries to fight back and say that modern wars will be over in aweeekend any way. Lately he has changed his tune. Another Guy I work with was Reserve after doing 8 years in the Corps and I would never pick on him he went into a Special Forces reserve unit they used to fly to florida for the weekend to do boat ops and go parachuting in and out of LZ's for two days at a time. Besides he led a squad of marines into Kuwait for the invasion and has seen some shit so he has my respect anyway. the prior service guard and reserve troops know what it is like to work 6 months straight with one day off every 7 and appreciate the work done in the active force. the "weekend Warriors" are the ones that have never done any more time than training. IMHO john
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 12:29:50 PM EDT
Active duty troops look down on NG because they see them as "wanna-be's" or some such thing. Same way fulltime firefighters look down on volunteers, or fulltime LEO looks down on Reserve Officers. Fact is, NG troops are trying to swing two careers and retain proficiency in both. We still have the seperations from families as the Active guys, exp. with the call-ups for local emergencies as well as missions like the current airport/ power plant details. Of course we can't maintain the level of proficiency as the Active components...but then we ARE only doing it on a part time basis. I have met a lot of dedicated troops in the Guard who are just as commited to military service as any Active soldier.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 1:42:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 1:47:35 PM EDT
what a silly question. isn't it obvious???? i never could understand the usefulness of a bunch of guys who try to balance a minimum of two careers, perhaps a family (and we all know rearing children is so easy so that doesn't count for much), and stay proficient (and efficient) in both to actually be of service. and so what if some of them have a desire to protect and defend the Constitution of this great nation? bah! what silliness. okay, sarcasm off. real answer: the same reason people look down on anyone or anything. bottom line is an inferiority complex. i never did understand how stompin' someone else down got anyone any higher.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:15:21 PM EDT
ME......I`m lower than whaleshit.....oh-well....guess somebody feels pretty good.....specially when your`e bigger than him.......[stick]
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:21:32 PM EDT
I have respect for someone trying to make our country a little safer. Although I would have to give them an A for effort and a C- for proficiency. When I was stationed in Fort Hood, Texas they would come out to get qualified or just train. Seems like everytime a unit showed up, a soldier got killed in an accident. I wouldn't consider them stupid by any means but I do wonder about the ability to retain proficiency with as little time as they have to train. If it came time to throwdown. I don't think it would take them very long to get up to speed.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:22:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2001 2:49:07 PM EDT by Aviator]
Hrmm gonna have to jump in on this one. First, most of the guys in my Guard unit were active duty. That should put that to rest. Second. Lets see. We have 11 drill periods a year in addition to annual training. Most drills are MUTA 5s meaning that we are there Friday night, sat and Sunday. That's 220 hours. In Addition, in Aviation we have what we call AFTPs )Additional Flight Training Periods). We have 38 AFTPs which last a minimum of 4 hours each. That's a minimum of 152 hours training. Then we have 14 days worth of Annual training. Usually in the field. Now we have the usual 5-10 days a year we get activated for floods, fires, tornados or whatever reason. That's a lot of training. As a matter of fact, we fly almost more hours in the guard than I did on active duty. While on Active duty I not once received training in Nuclear Powerplant emergencies, Forest Fire fighting with Bambi buckets, crowd control, and many other things we do in the guard that the active guys do not. To top it all off, most guys are like me in that we make about 1/2 of our regular job pay when we are doing guard stuff. Sure as shit not doing it for the money. So, you tell me why people look down on the guard? Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img] [b]Edited to mention that after adding the hours up into 8 hour days that makes 13 1/2 five day work weeks that we do.[/b]
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:25:52 PM EDT
To answer the original post. Yes they do go through the same basic training. However, its one of those situations that you learn just enough to get yourself into trouble. I learned alot more through my active duty station unit training than basic or AIT.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:36:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2001 2:31:35 PM EDT by DaMan]
Blackeye, I think you have hit the nail on the head!
Originally Posted By blackeye: Although I would have to give them an A for effort and a C- for proficiency. When I was stationed in Fort Hood, Texas they would come out to get qualified or just train. Seems like everytime a unit showed up, a soldier got killed in an accident. I wouldn't consider them stupid by any means but I do wonder about the ability to retain proficiency with as little time as they have to train. If it came time to throwdown. I don't think it would take them very long to get up to speed.
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Last line says it all! DaMan TIME!
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:42:00 PM EDT
The "weekend warrior" thing always pissed me off. I have nothing but respect. HOWEVER, recently noted, the NG patrolling the airport in Chicago were wearing the black beret... there are only a very few cats who should wear the black beret, the the Guard are not them. If I see a black beret, I expect to see Ranger tabs. Just my opinion.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:51:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By A_Free_Man: The "weekend warrior" thing always pissed me off. I have nothing but respect. HOWEVER, recently noted, the NG patrolling the airport in Chicago were wearing the black beret... there are only a very few cats who should wear the black beret, the the Guard are not them. If I see a black beret, I expect to see Ranger tabs. Just my opinion.
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Then you might not want to go to any active duty base. All you are going to see are lack berets. Rangers are wearing tan now. Like it or not, we can't choose what we wear. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:51:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By a2carbine: Army National Gurad? Don't they go to the [i]sane BT[/i] as rest of the Army? I'm not looking for a flame fest just really want to know.
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Actually this is not very well known but the guard actually goes to INsane BT! Yep. :)
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 7:55:27 PM EDT
Guard units and Reserve units share the problems that come with trying to squeeze military training around civilian life. Beyond that, the Guard ranks behind the Reserves (in respect, at least) because: 1) State and local politics have a bigger influence on the Guard than on the Reserve. The worst result of this is the promotion (in some cases) of officers as a result of good ol' boy connections instead of on merit. 2) Guard units have the distraction of non-military missions such as disaster relief, riot control and filling in for striking state workers.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 8:46:46 PM EDT
Yup, those that enlist for the Guard, go to active componant BT and AIT's. The only acception to this is if you are prior service. If prior service, you will go to a NG or Reserve Componant School for your speciality. This usually takes up to eight months for your typical MOS. Some of your more intricate MOS's of course take longer. Here in Texas, we get to do maybe two MUTA 5's a year. In this state, the emphasis is Tankers and Cav. This really bites because they get the first cut of the budget. I am a medic, so medical is low priority. So equipment and training is not a priority. Which just totally blows me away. This makes no sense. Unfortuanately, the Guard gets a bad rap because if you look at previous years, what did you see: old, overweight men in uniform, it looked bad and gave a bad impression. The Guard is working to better standards and make us more acceptable in the community. Especially with our active duty brothers. Most don't care for us but they can get over it because due to the total force concept and the major draw downs, the Guard is a very integral part and will be for years to come. Another down side, is still promotions. They have tried to improve the situation but there are still good ole boys in the system and it still takes place. Aviator, you Sir, are correct on the pay thing. If activated, I will lose my ass because of the severe cut in pay. But you know, that is something I'm willing to risk because you know what, guys? I love the uniform, what it stands for, who I represent, the job, my patients and most of all, I kinda like my country. It's got a lot of good selling points and this is my way of giving back to her for all that I have received from her.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 9:02:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pakrat: Aviator, you Sir, are correct on the pay thing. If activated, I will lose my ass because of the severe cut in pay. But you know, that is something I'm willing to risk because you know what, guys? I love the uniform, what it stands for, who I represent, the job, my patients and most of all, I kinda like my country. It's got a lot of good selling points and this is my way of giving back to her for all that I have received from her.
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Could not have said it better myself. The people I work with, and the job are worth 20x the lost money. Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 12:25:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SNorman:
Originally Posted By a2carbine: Army National Gurad? Don't they go to the [i]sane BT[/i] as rest of the Army? I'm not looking for a flame fest just really want to know.
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Actually this is not very well known but the guard actually goes to INsane BT! Yep. :)
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Kiss me on the crak,butt head[:X] Why you want to pick on a guy over a lil. n?[;D]
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