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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/7/2005 12:38:34 AM EDT
When it is clearly of middle eastern origin and customs.



And I didn't say Arab because it is not islamic... duhh
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:10:00 AM EDT
Good point. Same reason so many people have pictures of a white Jesus Christ. Or Christians who use racist terms like "towel-head" or "camel-Jockey". Interesting side note. When my wife (who is Arab and speaks Arabic fluently) and I watched "The Passion of The Christ" she understood about half of the words in the movie (Aramaic).
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:30:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 5:32:02 AM EDT by TexasSIG]
Blashphemer! Jesus was a good old white boy from Nashville. Ask any Southern Baptist........


Because so many Americans are uneducated. My grandmother never finished high school,
and she was a good Southern Baptist. So many things are not taught.

One of the worst things I ever did was mention the fact that Christ was Jewish.
You'd have thought I admitted to killing Elvis. She chewed me out for a long
time about what a good Christian boy Jesus was. She meant well, just had
no education on the topic. I didn't argue with her.

Very few churches actually TEACH anything anymore. Most just try to put
bible scripture into simple stories their uneducated congregation can understand.
I guess they mean well but they don't have much information to pass along.
Have you seen some of these places with the wide screen TV's, strobe lights,
fog machines......sheesh.......

My priest tried doing a thing every Sunday where he actually teaches something
useful, history wise. It lasted about a month, the old people just didn't want to hear that.

They want to hear the Eucharist Rite I, take communion, and go to IHOP.

Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:36:39 PM EDT
OK I was in T*r*h class at a Conservative Synagogue....The teacher was aBible Scholar form Gratz University. I am working 4-12 shift and can go to a day class otherwise they were Jewish Soccer Moms and older Jews.

Well the Prof and I hit it off becasue most were set on listening, I wanted to talk about it...we started to talk about Clinton and Lewinsky. I Justified his act as he was married but Monica was single. Using the premise that, it was not adultry, Hillary knew, and historically Jews are Polygamus. We went on for like 20 minutes, the last statement by me was, But he is a Christian, so this doesn't apply to him, we are enjoying hte discourse and an Oldeer Jewish Gentelman gets up and is steamed becasue we are not discussing T*r*h the way he wanted it.

He leaves and the Prof looks and me and says, you should become a Rabbi, same thing. The guy that got mad was using a western Europen Jewish mindset, I went into the time. We needot look at the history of the world

thhten.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:38:56 PM EDT
5 bucks says that customs of the middle east 2k years ago are just a tad different than of today, AND lets not forget the king james version of the bible was written(liberally translated) in england several hundred years ago.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:55:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
5 bucks says that customs of the middle east 2k years ago are just a tad different than of today, AND lets not forget the king james version of the bible was written(liberally translated) in england several hundred years ago.




Liberally translated? on what do you base that?


I have read many different versions of the bible, some older than the KJV. The KJV is th eMOST accurate bible translation out there, unless you wish to learn to read Greek, Aramaic, and a fistful of other ancient and mostly dead languages. The old Latin bibles can be just plan scary.


Just because a king had a group of translators working to translate holy scripture does not make it liberally translated, nor does it mean it was translated to say what he wished it to say, that tended to be the providence of Rome
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 2:02:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
5 bucks says that customs of the middle east 2k years ago are just a tad different than of today, AND lets not forget the king james version of the bible was written(liberally translated) in england several hundred years ago.




Liberally translated? on what do you base that?


I have read many different versions of the bible, some older than the KJV. The KJV is th eMOST accurate bible translation out there, unless you wish to learn to read Greek, Aramaic, and a fistful of other ancient and mostly dead languages. The old Latin bibles can be just plan scary.


Just because a king had a group of translators working to translate holy scripture does not make it liberally translated, nor does it mean it was translated to say what he wished it to say, that tended to be the providence of Rome

Your right, just because a king had it translated doesn't in itself mean it was changed, but it was. At one point I was studying to be a youth minister and we were forbiddin from even having one as it was so different. Not to mention the basic premise of this being the south and no one here speaks the kings english.

Back to the original question now of why so many people interpret the bible with a western attitude. We are western, and times do change. I don't think today's modern middle eastern customs are quite the same as that past. On the theology side of it, I have my beliefs and no one out there can, or will, change them. On the historical side of it, the KJV is historically known to have "lost something in translation"
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 2:17:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 6:03:36 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
5 bucks says that customs of the middle east 2k years ago are just a tad different than of today, AND lets not forget the king james version of the bible was written(liberally translated) in england several hundred years ago.




Liberally translated? on what do you base that?


I have read many different versions of the bible, some older than the KJV. The KJV is th eMOST accurate bible translation out there, unless you wish to learn to read Greek, Aramaic, and a fistful of other ancient and mostly dead languages. The old Latin bibles can be just plan scary.


Just because a king had a group of translators working to translate holy scripture does not make it liberally translated, nor does it mean it was translated to say what he wished it to say, that tended to be the providence of Rome

Your right, just because a king had it translated doesn't in itself mean it was changed, but it was. At one point I was studying to be a youth minister and we were forbiddin from even having one as it was so different. Not to mention the basic premise of this being the south and no one here speaks the kings english.

Back to the original question now of why so many people interpret the bible with a western attitude. We are western, and times do change. I don't think today's modern middle eastern customs are quite the same as that past. On the theology side of it, I have my beliefs and no one out there can, or will, change them. On the historical side of it, the KJV is historically known to have "lost something in translation"




And what version would you prefer? I have yet o hear of any church (well, I can think of two, but they have issues to begine with) that say the KJV has been changed in a major way, we are nto talkign about the NIV here people. As for studying to be a Minister, I have little faith in what any Chucrch teaches ministers about how well a scripture was translated. I sat down with Books and translation dictionairies to figure out which I beleived, not to mention just comparing different versions of the bibles, I HAVE run into some printings of KJV that had errors, done the same with NIV, Gideons, some that really don't have a version (My adulterer's bible for one)


Not that it matters, we all have faith in our respective books, and are unlikely to change our minds on them



and as to the Western view, we are in fact western, so we will of course have a bias in that direction, I also don't believe Middle Eastern society as it was is anywhere near what it is, for one it used to be a highly educated and enlightened society, full of marvels and invention, not anymore. It also used to be closer to what is classified as a free society, ****Edited****<va-gunnut>, women may not have had much in the way of freedom, but that was not that different anywhere in the known world at the time. Men were free, even to the practicing of religion, somewhat....


But I digress, I truly believe where we live and how we are raised puts the bias to our depictions (BTW my church does not depict Christ as a whiteman, but as a middle eastern gentleman, even if he does have somewhat lighter skin than some ME men, and we do realize that he was Jewish, Hell, I met a preacher who insisted Christ was Baptist because John Baptized him...... Didn't seem to understand that Baptist is a title not necessarily a name)
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:13:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olyarms:
When it is clearly of middle eastern origin and customs.



And I didn't say Arab because it is not islamic... duhh



And there in lies the entire reason why I went back to the religion of my ancestors, Asatru. I'm of European decent so I feel that I should follow the religion of my ancestors, not some "forgien" religion.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:17:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 6:04:11 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:
****Edited****<va-gunnut>



Here we go again............
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:42:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olyarms:
When it is clearly of middle eastern origin and customs.



And I didn't say Arab because it is not islamic... duhh



I never saw anyone try to interpret it with a western attitude. I dont know of any bibles with

y'all
howdy
ryche heeah (right here)
yonder

Ok just kidding of course.

Honestly I dont know what you are talking about, please give some examples.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:20:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 4:20:57 PM EDT by olyarms]

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
When it is clearly of middle eastern origin and customs.



And I didn't say Arab because it is not islamic... duhh



I never saw anyone try to interpret it with a western attitude. I dont know of any bibles with

y'all
howdy
ryche heeah (right here)
yonder

Ok just kidding of course.

Honestly I dont know what you are talking about, please give some examples.


Customs and symbolism vary in a western culture than they do in one of the middle east. So chapters in the bible to some one living in New York can be viewed totally different than those living say in Egypt. Yes Christians exist in Egypt in through out the middle east still .
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:56:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 6:58:15 PM EDT by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
When it is clearly of middle eastern origin and customs.



And I didn't say Arab because it is not islamic... duhh



I never saw anyone try to interpret it with a western attitude. I dont know of any bibles with

y'all
howdy
ryche heeah (right here)
yonder

Ok just kidding of course.

Honestly I dont know what you are talking about, please give some examples.


Customs and symbolism vary in a western culture than they do in one of the middle east. So chapters in the bible to some one living in New York can be viewed totally different than those living say in Egypt. Yes Christians exist in Egypt in through out the middle east still .



Still havinbg a hard time understanding. Do you mean do people pisture Americans and western cities when they think of Scripture?

There are many customer from that region and yes customs change as time goes on. Why do we have to live and dress like 2000+ yrs ago. Is that the point you are trying to make? Why dont we lve like 2000+ yrs ago? Many customs are not a requirement to be a Christian. Is your question valid for Jews as well as the Torah is a part of their system. Should they not live in modern societies?

Honestly I dont understand what you are getting at. Or maybe I do?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:08:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By olyarms:
When it is clearly of middle eastern origin and customs.



And I didn't say Arab because it is not islamic... duhh



Where exactly are you getting this idea from?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:30:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
When it is clearly of middle eastern origin and customs.



And I didn't say Arab because it is not islamic... duhh



Where exactly are you getting this idea from?


So middle eastern culture had zero influence on the bible, hmmm strange. I guess romans had zero influence on the Christians.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:33:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 4:33:40 AM EDT by garandman]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
When it is clearly of middle eastern origin and customs.






Where exactly are you getting this idea from?



+1

"Thou shalt not kill" and "Ye must be born again" mean what they mean no matter where you were born.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:33:30 AM EDT
Elaborate on what you mean by "western attitude".
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:43:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
When it is clearly of middle eastern origin and customs.






Where exactly are you getting this idea from?



+1

"Thou shalt not kill" and "Ye must be born again" mean what they mean no matter where you were born.



Give me a few days to find some of my older books on the torah etc, and Ill give some examples.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:44:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 4:49:21 AM EDT by olyarms]

Originally Posted By PBIR:
Elaborate on what you mean by "western attitude".


I meant to but culture but I guess culture gives us a certain attitude towards things.

ETA: One thing we see the laws of God given to us at least most as similar to the laws that are given to us by society. Just one thing the many in the Christian faith have been doing since the second century. Kind of something the Romans can be thanked for.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:47:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 4:48:01 AM EDT by garandman]

Originally Posted By olyarms:
Give me a few days to find some of my older books on the torah etc, and Ill give some examples.



O-tay.

Just remember - the New Testament interprets the Old Testament / Torah.

Both are set in a largely "middle eastern" context.



Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:37:25 AM EDT
We interpret the things we see, read, and hear according to our worldview.

Our worldview is a product of our social environment, culture, and education.

When we learn about the cultures, traditions, and mindsets of the people who wrote the Bible we can better understand its meaning and original intent.

BTW, for a great lesson in worldviews, get a copy of Nancy Pearcy's book, "Total Truth."
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:03:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By olyarms:
So middle eastern culture had zero influence on the bible, hmmm strange. I guess romans had zero influence on the Christians.



Uhhh....

Are you aware that for centuries there have been histories of the region and commentaries specifically written and studied to give light on the times and cultures found in the Bible? And that a significant part of theological training provided this background?

So where are you getting the idea that nobody ever thought about the culture or history around the Bible events?

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