Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 8/9/2002 5:22:10 AM EST
I pay taxes dammit, i should be able to use a range close to me. c-rock Federal air marshals assigned to O'Hare International Airport plan to get their target practice at the Lake County Sheriff Department's shooting range starting next month, officials said Thursday. Under a tentative agreement between the county and the recently created U.S. Transportation Security Administration, as many as 240 air marshals would use the county's outdoor facility. "We're more than happy to help the federal government in their war on terrorism," Undersheriff Gary Stryker said Thursday. The County Board is expected to approve the plan Tuesday. The U-shaped range, which can accommodate 20 shooters, is in an unincorporated area near Wadsworth. It is one of the few in the region operated by law-enforcement authorities. "There are not a lot of facilities like ours, which was a big issue for them," Stryker said. Officials in Cook, DuPage, Kane and Will Counties said they were not aware of any similar arrangements nearby. The marshals, who provide security aboard aircraft as well as at O'Hare, have been using the FBI's shooting range in Chicago for training. Exactly what the federal agency plans to do at the Lake County site is not being made public. "We really don't discuss any sort of training things regarding our law-enforcement officers, for national security reasons," said Greg Warren, a spokesman for the Transportation Security Administration. The administration was created after Sept. 11 to handle U.S. airport and airline security and is responsible for the air marshal program. It has declined to disclose how many air marshals have been hired, although Warren said more than 200,000 men and women have applied. The Transportation Security Administration initially planned to build its own shooting ranges but apparently scrapped that idea in favor of leasing facilities like the one in Lake. The air marshals are one piece of a complex air security program that Congress approved in November. It also includes installation of bomb-detection devices in airports and reinforcing airplane cockpit doors. The air marshals already are aboard an undisclosed number of flights around the nation each day. They are responsible for identifying potential terrorists, assisting flight attendants with violent passengers, providing medical assistance and protecting the cockpit. The shooting range in Lake County underwent $500,000 in improvements a year ago. About 400 law enforcement officers--from the sheriff's office and about 18 police departments--use it each year for target practice. Like those departments, the federal agency would pay an estimated $75 an hour to use the range. "We're treating them like any other law enforcement agency," county Deputy Administrator Peter Austin said. The arrangement will provide the county with some unexpected cash, which probably will be used to clean the range, which is typically done twice a year, costing about $26,000 annually, said board Chairman Suzi Schmidt (R-Lake Villa). "We want to be part of the whole [national security] shebang and make sure the county is doing its share to keep people safe," Schmidt said.
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 5:32:36 AM EST
Jeez, even shitty little TSA folks are now using the National Security dodge, whats next, the good folks at the parks department not letting junior use the restroom out of National Security fears... Amazing. Whats more amazing is that we are allowing them to get away with this. Doesn't anyone see the precipice that we are standing on, right this second?
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 5:37:06 AM EST
"The shooting range in Lake County underwent $500,000 in improvements a year ago. About 400 law enforcement officers--from the sheriff's office and about 18 police departments--use it each year for target practice." that's $1250 per user. hmmmm....
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 5:40:05 AM EST
My normal indoor range (Sporting Arms in Posen) is close enough to the south side that we get Chicago PD LEO's in there pretty regularly. The way that some of them shoot, I'm happy that they have their own range. One of them couldn't keep all of his shots on a man-size silhouette at 7 yards, and he didn't appear to be any kind of rookie!
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 5:40:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 5:43:13 AM EST
oh boy, here we go "i pay taxes" bla bla bla. listen, just be thankful you're NOT allowed in cop ranges. in mine, there's holes all over the place from ND's. you're probably a lot safer in public range. i know i feel safer at them.
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 5:50:25 AM EST
The more appropriate question is "Why are they spending so much money on dedicated facilities when local public ranges would easily contract blocks of time with them?" Again the answer is because they can.
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 5:52:18 AM EST
They have their own range to shoot on. You know, that training/qualification you guys always insist they don't have enough of? It's a hell of a lot safer and cheaper than a public range, let me tell you. As an aside, we had a shooting last week. Robber/carjacker/generic idiot went pistol to pistol with one of the Rookies during a chase. Several rounds from the idiot went who knows where, 6 rounds from the rookie for 5 hits at 20 yards.
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 6:04:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 6:06:09 AM EST
One reason might be that public ranges are always just a shooting line. Perhaps the LE ranges can be set up for practical shoots. I think that would be especially necessary for Sky marshalls, swat etc. that have to practice close quarters, low ceilings, lots of bystanders..... I don't know of any public ranges that you can do those kind of situational shooting practicing.
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 6:12:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By eswanson:
Originally Posted By c-rock: I pay taxes dammit, i should be able to use a range close to me. c-rock
View Quote
Well, your taxes pay for their squad cars too. Maybe they'll let you drive them and play with the siren.
View Quote
I know if I really want, I can get a ride in the back of one for free!! [BD] c-rock
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 6:14:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By Vector_Joe: One reason might be that public ranges are always just a shooting line. Perhaps the LE ranges can be set up for practical shoots. I think that would be especially necessary for Sky marshalls, swat etc. that have to practice close quarters, low ceilings, lots of bystanders..... I don't know of any public ranges that you can do those kind of situational shooting practicing.
View Quote
Thats the thing. I myself am getting bored with just shooting from a line. I want to be my own suburban commando!! I want to learn how the 'man shoots!! c-rock
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 6:19:39 AM EST
Not to mention, at every range I've ever been at - the cops seem to have trouble following simple range rules. Like the line is cold, no handling of firearms when shooters are downrange.
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 6:19:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By rn45: We have our own range 'cause we told the gubmint how bad you all are. We told 'em you wuz a bunch of crazy fanatics with guns and that you wanted to take over. That scared 'em pretty bad. We promised to keep you down if they'd let us have our own ranges. Pretty clever of us eh? [url]http://mywebpages.comcast.net/unwind5/bluegrab.gif[/url]
View Quote
You see, the 'man is everywhere, and he pops up from time to time. c-rock
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 6:19:51 AM EST
All kidding aside, there is a need for a police range. When our old range was closed because of development around it, we thought of the rental route, but ran in major hassles with insurance, timing, prices, and the major griping of fellow shooters who come to find their favorite range shut down for the day. Add to the fact a lot more goes on than just plinking, (Weapon retention drills, subject weapon drills, vehicle stops and tactics, structure clearing, pepper spray and night fire training/qualification, the academy weapon/use of force training etc.) and you see the need for a dedicated facility. No rental range is going to allow all that. Our range use is planned out on a 12 month calendar, 24 hours a day.
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 6:25:08 AM EST
Hey, it's my taxes paying for the F-18's and aircraft carriers that those snobby swabbies do cruise around in. I demand to fly! Where can I sign up to start off with some exciting late-night flight ops? Especially the landings! Kewl!!!
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 6:34:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By prk: Hey, it's my taxes paying for the F-18's and aircraft carriers that those snobby swabbies do cruise around in. I demand to fly! Where can I sign up to start off with some exciting late-night flight ops? Especially the landings! Kewl!!!
View Quote
Different situation all together. Every american male, 17 thru 45 is expected to be ready to defend the homeland. Each must provide a gun, and ammo. this is the law since this great country started. Now, I need to make sure I am ready, and need a place to test myself, and my skills, if I am expected to defend this country. this place is setup, and is close to my home. I like to use it, since its paid for by MY TAX dollars. Only thing is, the 'man doesnt want me to have my skills, or for me to be a bad mother..... (Shut your mouth!, that's shaft your talkin about) c-rock
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 6:39:01 AM EST
Because police officers and LE officials have mysterious-jedi like firearm skills that civilians could never possibly obtain:)
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 6:39:55 AM EST
Because the way the police shoot is a secret, yeah that's it, it is a secret police thing, like the KGB. Plus if they shoot with you they might get to like you and then they would not be able to arrest you for gun law infractions, plus they might get a peoples point of view that they are heavy handed and need to calm down, most police only have police friends, they are isolated from the communities they work for.
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 6:40:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 6:48:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By JU88: I doubt that many leo types on this board would consider me much of a cop cheerleader, but... I think that it is pretty obvious why the police in any major city or suburban area would need a dedicated facility to train and improve vital skills they need in order to protect us meer civilians. In many small towns and counties in rural America I am sure that it works out best to share the police range with the public, or to rent time at a public range, but in an area with more than a handful of small LE agencies there has to be a facility that the police can use whenever they need it however they need it, without having to worry about disturbing the other patrons. I can not really speak of the weapon handling procedures of police in general, other than I hope thier weapon never needs to leave its holster outside of thier range, but the truth is that if the police get into a shootout in my neighborhood I hope that they ahve had enough training to keep them from killing my children with a ND, or just plain old bad marksmanship. Yes the cops need a place that is all thiers to practice,that is available to them 24-7, I mean if a cop feels he needs some extra practice at the range he should be able to get it whenever he wants it.
View Quote
Thing is, the 'man around these parts do not protect the outdoor ranges for us common folk. They shut down the last outdoor range in 99 near chicago. I have to go to Bristol, WI to shoot outside. Rifle shooting inside SUCKS.
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 7:19:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2002 7:22:23 AM EST by DScott]
c-rock, Ever been on a "public" member on a police departments civilian review board? Do they have those in Chicago? Might be a good use of your time...
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 7:21:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By c-rock: ...Exactly what the federal agency plans to do at the Lake County site is not being made public...
View Quote
1. Learn to shoot 2. Learn not to shoot passengers 3. Learn not to shoot the crew 4. Learn to shoot again.
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 8:10:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2002 8:11:19 AM EST by eswanson]
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 8:24:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By DScott: c-rock, Ever been on a "public" member on a police departments civilian review board? Do they have those in Chicago? Might be a good use of your time...
View Quote
You think the 'man wants me up in his business? Heck naw. They dont play those things around here homey. c-rock
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 8:42:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By thecleaner: listen, just be thankful you're NOT allowed in cop ranges. in mine, there's holes all over the place from ND's.
View Quote
I just thought it was just my local PD range that looked like that!
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 8:44:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By c-rock:
Originally Posted By DScott: c-rock, Ever been on a "public" member on a police departments civilian review board? Do they have those in Chicago? Might be a good use of your time...
View Quote
You think the 'man wants me up in his business? Heck naw. They dont play those things around here homey. c-rock
View Quote
Apparently, there is a Chicago Police Board- look who's on it: [url]http://www.chicagoreporter.com/1999/11-99/1199policeboardside.htm[/url] Maybe you could work for one as their staff? Or even better, why not join? [:D] [url]http://www.ci.chi.il.us/CommunityPolicing/Challenge/Challenge.html[/url] [img]http://www.ci.chi.il.us/CommunityPolicing/Challenge/Police1.jpeg[/img]
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 9:06:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By DScott: [Apparently, there is a Chicago Police Board- look who's on it: [url]http://www.chicagoreporter.com/1999/11-99/1199policeboardside.htm[/url] Maybe you could work for one as their staff? Or even better, why not join? [:D] [url]http://www.ci.chi.il.us/CommunityPolicing/Challenge/Challenge.html[/url] [url]http://www.ci.chi.il.us/CommunityPolicing/Challenge/Police1.jpeg[/url]
View Quote
I don't live in Chicago proper, I just live 15 mins outside of it, or 5 mins from O-hare part. The 'man don't want me in is town. I would be committing felonies if I moved into my birthplace. Yes, I was born in the city, even lived there for a bit. The 'man ran me out of there, cause i wont live like a subject. [BD] c-rock
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 9:21:08 AM EST
After reading about all those "accidental" Glock discharges, the cops can have their own range as far as I'm concerned [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 9:26:05 AM EST
That's so nobody can see how bad they really do shoot. To serve and protect. [puke]
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 5:00:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2002 5:02:47 PM EST by AR15fan]
Our range has always been open to the public. But the only recreational shooters that use it are some old Marine bullseyes shooters. We also occassionally rent 1/2 of a commercial range when needed. Those are some fat cops in that Chicago pic, and whats with those bus driver hats?
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 5:38:20 PM EST
Well, the police from different agencies rent the range at our club here in Orygun. Over the past year, guess which group the two who got hurt belonged to....... Billy Bob club members, or police. Yup, you probably guessed it. Two policemen taken to the hospital to be treated for gunshot wounds to the buttocks while holstering. The club members have to have documented training prior to being allowed to participate in events where drawing, firing, and holstering a loaded weapon is allowed - training which is either not given to, or not taken literally by some of the leo's. Of course, they have to provide their own insurance :) Score so far: LEO's 2 Club members 0 Whenever I do my RO thing, I ALWAYS keep an extra sharp eye out for anyone who looks like they may be a cop. NMSight
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 6:15:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2002 6:28:35 PM EST by gardenWeasel]
[:D] I'm just here to say that I feel sorry for people who have to shoot at indoor ranges. Yuck!
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 8:31:09 PM EST
Considering the recent track records concerning LEOs and NDs, do YOU want to shoot anywhere near them? Nothing agianst LEOs, but I'm getting worried about some of your compatriots... FFZ
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 8:45:19 PM EST
They have their own range because most of them cant shoot and they dont want their officers killing civilians at the range, killing is saved for the streets [:)] DOH!!!
Link Posted: 8/10/2002 1:57:32 AM EST
so I can shoot that FN SeveN pistol and that cool P-90 to my hearts content! (I wish)
Link Posted: 8/10/2002 2:45:27 AM EST
I was going to comment on how bad most LEO's actually shoot. Most of them, but there are some exceptions Im sure. I am just waiting to see one. I have a relative by marriage that I see about once a year at the holidays. He is a Motorcycle cop for Indy PD. For small talk last year I asked him what kind of pistol he carried on duty he said "a Glock" I said what model? he replies "I dont know, but its a .40 cal." I gave up then on asking any more Q's. Dumbass. I support them having thier own range though so the ones who DO shoot well can practice.
Link Posted: 8/10/2002 3:07:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By tnek: I was going to comment on how bad most LEO's actually shoot. Most of them, but there are some exceptions Im sure. I am just waiting to see one. I have a relative by marriage that I see about once a year at the holidays. He is a Motorcycle cop for Indy PD. For small talk last year I asked him what kind of pistol he carried on duty he said "a Glock" I said what model? he replies "I dont know, but its a .40 cal." I gave up then on asking any more Q's. Dumbass. I support them having thier own range though so the ones who DO shoot well can practice.
View Quote
Now that is scary!!!
Top Top