Why do people get bent out of shape over facts relating to diffrent races ????

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why do people get bent out of shape over facts relating to diffrent races ???? (Page 1 of 2)

BodyPiercingByGlock

AK-47 The Right Hand of Freedom

Joined Dec 2007
Posts 460
EE Offline

NV, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:18:14 AM EST

If it is the least bit negative, yet true, someone is whining because someones little feelings may be hurt. That is one of the things that is wrong with the country . To many people are so PC and sit with blinders on, so now they can't even see the forest for the trees. Go ahead and knock me, I'm just a cracker anyway..... and we know it doesn't matter if you are a cracker....

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Different is DEAD !

California_Kid Team Member, Redneck, Hippie Joined Jan 2001 Posts 15705 EE Offline CA, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:19:36 AM EST What kind of facts?

david_g17 Joined May 2003 Posts 11454 EE Offline USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:19:57 AM EST [Last Edit: 6/5/2008 8:20:29 AM EST by david_g17] Do you cling to your guns and religion? you sound like a TWP.

Leadbetter Member Joined Mar 2008 Posts 866 EE Offline CA, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:21:05 AM EST I believe most people are reluctant to account for negative dramatic changes amongst individuals by looking to race alone. Culture seems to be more coherent.
	"Pity stands opposed to the tonic emotions which heighten our vitality: it has a depressing effect. We are deprived of strength when we feel pity. "

Aimless

Tier 1 Internet Poster fully parkerized

Joined Sep 2001
Posts 60528
EE Offline

NY, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:21:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By California_Kid:
What kind of facts?

The kind published by The New Century Foundation?

Striker handles that!

Boom_Stick Kill da wabbit! Joined Nov 2000 Posts 6928 EE Offline WA, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:21:52 AM EST [Last Edit: 6/5/2008 8:28:44 AM EST by Boom_Stick] If your facts are inflammatory or offensive towards any race other than whites (even if it's true), people get bent, even white people.
	كافر Pacifism is a privilege of the protected

BigBang Joined Jan 2005 Posts 3339 EE Offline ID, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:21:55 AM EST Site staff must protect ar15's "reputation" it has become a cash cow that must be protected. You cannot discuss facts that may make ar15.com look bad to someone overly sensitive and PC, so , staff and mods have become overly sensitive and pc in their duties to prevent this.

Hojo Member Joined Jun 2007 Posts 1920 EE Offline IN, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:22:06 AM EST Because if the truth offends someone it should be covered up to protect their feelings.

LoganSackett Lord Captain Commander of the Spelling Nazi Legion Joined Sep 2007 Posts 2863 EE Offline NJ, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:22:45 AM EST Personally, I don't get offended if anyone says anything about me. That doesn't mean I wouldn't get pissed at someone if they said or did something offensive to anyone in my family.
	"If I had the floor, I'd hit that big head with it!"----The Quiet Man "He'll regret it to his dying day! If ever he lives that long!"----also from The Quiet Man

BigBang

Joined Jan 2005
Posts 3340
EE Offline

ID, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:22:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By California_Kid:
What kind of facts?

The kind published by The New Century Foundation?

You found the one flawed post in 7 pages, congrats

jfrankparnell Band Joined Jan 2006 Posts 3276 EE Offline USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:23:21 AM EST

Torf

Angry White Man®

Joined May 2001
Posts 18407
EE Offline

IL, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:24:15 AM EST

[Last Edit: 6/5/2008 8:24:55 AM EST by Torf]

Originally Posted By david_g17:
Do you cling to your guns and religion? you sound like a TWP.

+1

Just like my white Grandmother...

Photos located at http://thetorfs.blogspot.com/.

HiramRanger

Helldog's Nummy Nums

Joined Nov 2000
Posts 18666
EE Offline

USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:24:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By BigBang:
Site staff must protect ar15's "reputation" it has become a cash cow that must be protected. You cannot discuss facts that may make ar15.com look bad to someone overly sensitive and PC, so , staff and mods have become overly sensitive and pc in their duties to prevent this.

Don't like it, leave...

Today I drink from the keg of glory, bring me the finest muffins and bagels in all the land

Mark Sanford For <font color=red>Vice-President</font id=red

Partisan

Joined Apr 2003
Posts 3377
EE Offline

CA, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:25:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Torf:

Originally Posted By david_g17:
Do you cling to your guns and religion? you sound like a TWP.

+1

Just like my white Grandmother...

Is she a typical white person?

California_Kid Team Member, Redneck, Hippie Joined Jan 2001 Posts 15706 EE Offline CA, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:26:50 AM EST Just checking in to see if any examples of the kinds of facts the OP is referring to have been posted. No facts here yet.

9mmUser Joined Oct 2005 Posts 2195 EE Offline	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:27:31 AM EST [Last Edit: 6/5/2008 8:27:43 AM EST by 9mmUser] "Fact" that OP wants is not exactly a fact. oh yeah IBTL

Aimless

Tier 1 Internet Poster fully parkerized

Joined Sep 2001
Posts 60529
EE Offline

NY, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:29:30 AM EST

[Last Edit: 6/5/2008 8:30:43 AM EST by Aimless]

Originally Posted By BigBang:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By California_Kid:
What kind of facts?

The kind published by The New Century Foundation?

You found the one flawed post in 7 pages, congrats

Thanks, not easy to do while simultaneously waxing the Staff Ferrari and boy did I have to oppress a lot of racially proud white men to earn that in my Staff bonus package.

Gotta run, have a lunch date with Farrakhan!

Striker handles that!

Subnet Round on the ends and high in the middle. Joined Apr 2004 Posts 33349 EE Offline OH, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:29:38 AM EST White guilt. Basically, if you point out that predominantly black or Hispanic areas tend to have higher crime rates than predominantly white areas, they freak out. They assume you're trying to assign a cause, when instead you're simply making an observation (and it's not exactly groundbreaking news, either).
	Whoever pissed in your Cheerios swiped your manners while you were savoring the taste.-FLAL1A

Mazeman Your Ad Here Joined Nov 2005 Posts 4831 EE Offline NH, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:29:58 AM EST I can't dance worth shit, and I attribute it to being Polish-American.
	"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." -- Thomas Paine, "filthy little atheist"

BodyPiercingByGlock

AK-47 The Right Hand of Freedom

Joined Dec 2007
Posts 461
EE Offline

NV, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:30:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By 9mmUser:
"Fact" that OP wants is not exactly a fact.

oh yeah IBTL

Oh but THEY ARE FACTS,,,, we are just not allowed to say they are facts, we need to mask them as something else....because someone's feelings may get hurt.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Different is DEAD !

gonzo_beyondo

¿ʇnʍ ʇıɐʍ

Joined Dec 2005
Posts 4778
EE Offline

USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:30:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mazeman:
I can't dance worth shit, and I attribute it to being Polish-American.

Me too, and I also suck at basketball

9mmUser

Joined Oct 2005
Posts 2196
EE Offline

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:30:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By BodyPiercingByGlock:

Originally Posted By 9mmUser:
"Fact" that OP wants is not exactly a fact.

oh yeah IBTL

Oh but THEY ARE FACTS,,,, we are just not allowed to say they are facts, we need to mask them as something else....because someone's feelings may get hurt.

Prove it.

Mazeman

Your Ad Here

Joined Nov 2005
Posts 4832
EE Offline

NH, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:31:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By Subnet:
White guilt.

Basically, if you point out that predominantly black or Hispanic areas tend to have higher crime rates than predominantly white areas, they freak out. They assume you're trying to assign a cause, when instead you're simply making an observation (and it's not exactly groundbreaking news, either).

Same with SAT scores.

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-- Thomas Paine, "filthy little atheist"

BodyPiercingByGlock

AK-47 The Right Hand of Freedom

Joined Dec 2007
Posts 462
EE Offline

NV, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:31:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mazeman:
I can't dance worth shit, and I attribute it to being Polish-American.

HONKY !

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Different is DEAD !

Triumph955i

Arfcoms best breeding stock

Joined Oct 2003
Posts 11705
EE Offline

USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:31:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Just checking in to see if any examples of the kinds of facts the OP is referring to have been posted.

No facts here yet.

I think the OP is referring to the crime statistics that state most crime is committed by Blacks and Hispanics.

Many people are quick to post the racist opossum after those statistics are mentioned.

Best thread killer in the midwest.

ultramagbrion GUERRILLA MACHINIST Have tools will travel Joined Jul 2004 Posts 6545 EE Offline NH, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:32:35 AM EST [Last Edit: 6/5/2008 8:34:57 AM EST by ultramagbrion] Reality is not politically correct. Plain and simple. ETA...............did someone say opossum?
	And the road becomes my bride........ ΜΟΛ'ΩΝ ΛΑΒ'Ε Percussa Resurgo <IMG SRC=/images/smilies/anim_snoopy.gif border=0 align=middle> Proud Member of "Ranstad's Militia"</

stealbear Member Joined Nov 2004 Posts 374 EE Offline FL, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:33:23 AM EST Because you are attributing those facts to race alone and not any other factors. Find those same "facts" in eastern europe and see they have nothing to do with race.

BodyPiercingByGlock

AK-47 The Right Hand of Freedom

Joined Dec 2007
Posts 463
EE Offline

NV, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:33:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By 9mmUser:

Originally Posted By BodyPiercingByGlock:

Originally Posted By 9mmUser:
"Fact" that OP wants is not exactly a fact.

oh yeah IBTL

Oh but THEY ARE FACTS,,,, we are just not allowed to say they are facts, we need to mask them as something else....because someone's feelings may get hurt.

Prove it.

Go look at you crime statistics, School Test Scores, Unemployment Rates, Rates of Those Collecting Welfare compared to the number of people of the same race in the country.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Different is DEAD !

jfrankparnell

Band

Joined Jan 2006
Posts 3277
EE Offline

USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:35:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Subnet:
White guilt.

Basically, if you point out that predominantly black or Hispanic areas tend to have higher crime rates than predominantly white areas, they freak out. They assume you're trying to assign a cause, when instead you're simply making an observation (and it's not exactly groundbreaking news, either).

well if that's not the cause, what's the purpose of that observation?

Merrell

Agent 87

Joined Apr 2003
Posts 19401
EE Offline

PA, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:36:46 AM EST

[Last Edit: 6/5/2008 8:38:07 AM EST by Merrell]

Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Just checking in to see if any examples of the kinds of facts the OP is referring to have been posted.

No facts here yet.

Human Rights Watch (hardly a right wing outfit) on race vs. incarceration:

www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/race/pdf/table1.pdf

USDOJ on race vs. victims

www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict_v.htm#race

USDOJ on race vs. victims & offenders

www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

FBI UCR on race

www.fbi.gov/ucr/addpubs.htm

PDF of entire FBI report

There's plenty of data out there, but it can be used & misused by groups on all sides.

Mazeman Your Ad Here Joined Nov 2005 Posts 4833 EE Offline NH, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:36:52 AM EST The data referred to above are facts. The question is why do they exist? Race? Poverty? Broken families? Racism of authorities? Test development? Etc, etc. But when you're not allowed to mention the facts, you'll never solve a problem.
	"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." -- Thomas Paine, "filthy little atheist"

9mmUser

Joined Oct 2005
Posts 2197
EE Offline

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:37:09 AM EST

[Last Edit: 6/5/2008 8:58:41 AM EST by 9mmUser]

Originally Posted By BodyPiercingByGlock:

Originally Posted By 9mmUser:

Originally Posted By BodyPiercingByGlock:

Originally Posted By 9mmUser:
"Fact" that OP wants is not exactly a fact.

oh yeah IBTL

Oh but THEY ARE FACTS,,,, we are just not allowed to say they are facts, we need to mask them as something else....because someone's feelings may get hurt.

Prove it.

Go look at you crime statistics, School Test Scores, Unemployment Rates, Rates of Those Collecting Welfare compared to the number of people of the same race in the country.

I said you prove it not me. But since you are being a reluctant, I'll provide the crime statistic posted by someone in another gun forum sometime ago.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm
According to 2000 census
http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2000/dp1/2kh00.pdf
White is 75%
Black is 12.3% of population.

According to FBI data(2006)
Arrests, City
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_49.html
White 67.0%
Black 30.5 %

Arrests, Metropolitan area
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_55.html
White: 75.8%
Black: 23.0%

Arrests, Nonmetropolitan Counties
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_61.html
White: 82.7%
Black: 13.7%

Arrests, Suburban Areas
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_67.html
White: 76.0%
Black: 22.6%

This is the arrest data I gleaned from provided FBI website. This data accounts for all the arrests, regardless of the crime. Compared to the census data(2000), Whites make up about 75.1% of population while blacks make up 12.3%

So if both races have equal amount of criminals committing equal share, the percent should be close to 75.1% and 12.3%.

In city, white is arrested about 67%, while blacks are about 30.5%. From immediate glance blacks get arrested more than whites, compared to census data of overall population. But since cities may have more blacks than suburban areas, it could be that more blacks could be arrested. It could also be that blacks indeed commit more crime and get arrested.

In Metropolitan area, the trend is similar except that blacks are still above the NATIONAL average, while population percentage is unknown.

When comparing in nonmetropolitan areas, whites get arrested more often than blacks and my bet is the population difference. In fact in this case blacks get about similar(slightly higher) percent in terms of arrest.

In suburban areas, the percents are back to the case where whites follow national percentage, but blacks go beyond that.

So in a nutshell FBI statistics do provide some insight, but it does not completely answer the question. Notice that whites include Hispanic population, and while arrest percentages are known, the population percentage of each category set by FBI is not known.

FBI provides more statistics,

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/arrests/index.html
Among the four categories of race reflected in UCR arrest data, 69.7 percent of persons arrested were

white, 58.5 percent of persons arrested for violent crime were white, and 68.2 percent of persons

arrested for property crime were white.

White juveniles comprised 67.1 percent of the juveniles arrested in 2006.

Black juveniles accounted for 51.0 percent of the juveniles arrested for violent crime, and white

juveniles comprised 66.3 percent of juveniles arrested for property crime. (See Table 43.)

While compared to national percentage of population whites have less percentage, whites still count for more than half of arrests. One area where blacks are arrested more are in juvenile area, where it is 51%

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
First thing you notice is that this is homicide percentage, and indeed blacks are 7 times more likely to commit homicide than whites. So does that mean blacks are the problem? I'd say no because,

Black victims are over represented in homicides involving drugs. Compared with the overall involvement of blacks as victims, blacks are less often the victims of sex-related homicides, workplace killings, and homicide by poison.

Race patterns among offenders are similar to those among victims

So as of 2005,
White on white homicide is the largest,
followed by blacks on black,
then black on white,
then white on black.

If anything, white on white is the problem.

readytorock556 Member Joined Aug 2002 Posts 2937 EE Offline CA, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:38:13 AM EST Because logic isn't PC
	Fuck the Police State

PUBBOY Beer Slinger Joined Mar 2005 Posts 7035 EE Offline TN, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:38:48 AM EST so tagged.
	"The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is." Ronald Reagan

Subnet

Round on the ends and high in the middle.

Joined Apr 2004
Posts 33350
EE Offline

OH, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:39:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By stealbear:
Because you are attributing those facts to race alone and not any other factors.

Find those same "facts" in eastern europe and see they have nothing to do with race.

No one is doing anything of the sort. Pointing out the obvious is not the same as assigning a cause. In this country, predominantly white areas tend to have less crime than predominantly black or Hispanic areas. So, what? In other news, the sky is blue. The reasons are complex, and you could probably write a book on it. But the correlation is no less valid.

I really don't understand why people get their panties in a bunch over this stuff.

Whoever pissed in your Cheerios swiped your manners while you were savoring the taste.-FLAL1A

readytorock556

Member

Joined Aug 2002
Posts 2938
EE Offline

CA, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:40:16 AM EST

[Last Edit: 6/5/2008 8:41:25 AM EST by readytorock556]

Originally Posted By 9mmUser:

Originally Posted By BodyPiercingByGlock:

Originally Posted By 9mmUser:

Originally Posted By BodyPiercingByGlock:

Originally Posted By 9mmUser:
"Fact" that OP wants is not exactly a fact.

oh yeah IBTL

Oh but THEY ARE FACTS,,,, we are just not allowed to say they are facts, we need to mask them as something else....because someone's feelings may get hurt.

Prove it.

Go look at you crime statistics, School Test Scores, Unemployment Rates, Rates of Those Collecting Welfare compared to the number of people of the same race in the country.

I said you prove it not me. But since you are being a douchebag, I'll provide the crime statistic posted by someone in another gun forum sometime ago.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm
According to 2000 census
http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2000/dp1/2kh00.pdf
White is 75%
Black is 12.3% of population.

According to FBI data(2006)
Arrests, City
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_49.html
White 67.0%
Black 30.5 %

Arrests, Metropolitan area
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_55.html
White: 75.8%
Black: 23.0%

Arrests, Nonmetropolitan Counties
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_61.html
White: 82.7%
Black: 13.7%

Arrests, Suburban Areas
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_67.html
White: 76.0%
Black: 22.6%

This is the arrest data I gleaned from provided FBI website. This data accounts for all the arrests, regardless of the crime. Compared to the census data(2000), Whites make up about 75.1% of population while blacks make up 12.3%

So if both races have equal amount of criminals committing equal share, the percent should be close to 75.1% and 12.3%.

In city, white is arrested about 67%, while blacks are about 30.5%. From immediate glance blacks get arrested more than whites, compared to census data of overall population. But since cities may have more blacks than suburban areas, it could be that more blacks could be arrested. It could also be that blacks indeed commit more crime and get arrested.

In Metropolitan area, the trend is similar except that blacks are still above the NATIONAL average, while population percentage is unknown.

When comparing in nonmetropolitan areas, whites get arrested more often than blacks and my bet is the population difference. In fact in this case blacks get about similar(slightly higher) percent in terms of arrest.

In suburban areas, the percents are back to the case where whites follow national percentage, but blacks go beyond that.

So in a nutshell FBI statistics do provide some insight, but it does not completely answer the question. Notice that whites include Hispanic population, and while arrest percentages are known, the population percentage of each category set by FBI is not known.

FBI provides more statistics,

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/arrests/index.html
Among the four categories of race reflected in UCR arrest data, 69.7 percent of persons arrested were

white, 58.5 percent of persons arrested for violent crime were white, and 68.2 percent of persons

arrested for property crime were white.

White juveniles comprised 67.1 percent of the juveniles arrested in 2006.

Black juveniles accounted for 51.0 percent of the juveniles arrested for violent crime, and white

juveniles comprised 66.3 percent of juveniles arrested for property crime. (See Table 43.)

While compared to national percentage of population whites have less percentage, whites still count for more than half of arrests. One area where blacks are arrested more are in juvenile area, where it is 51%

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
First thing you notice is that this is homicide percentage, and indeed blacks are 7 times more likely to commit homicide than whites. So does that mean blacks are the problem? I'd say no because,

Black victims are over represented in homicides involving drugs. Compared with the overall involvement of blacks as victims, blacks are less often the victims of sex-related homicides, workplace killings, and homicide by poison.

Race patterns among offenders are similar to those among victims

www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/ovrace.png
So as of 2005,
White on white homicide is the largest,
followed by blacks on black,
then black on white,
then white on black.

If anything, white on white is the problem.

You do realize that you have to take in account population size. Blacks only make up 15- 20% of the population.

Fuck the Police State

PBIR Coffee Fueled, Beer Cooled. Joined Sep 2004 Posts 13293 EE Offline TN, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:40:53 AM EST They are brainwashed by society to discount facts that might hurt someone's feelings so when such data is presented it short-circuits their programming.
	"But we, forgive us Lord, will continue killing. Killing not for Death, but for Life. Trying not to hate. And after, all by ourselves and very honestly we will try to pray… But all of that after the control shot to the head"

Mazeman Your Ad Here Joined Nov 2005 Posts 4834 EE Offline NH, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:41:37 AM EST Also if the data is positive, it's more easily accepted, and most people will freely offer explanations. "Asians do better in school" "Blacks dominate the NFL" etc...
	"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." -- Thomas Paine, "filthy little atheist"

DK-Prof

Psychopolitical MASTER

Joined Feb 2001
Posts 44078
EE Offline

VA, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:41:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By BodyPiercingByGlock:

Originally Posted By 9mmUser:

Originally Posted By BodyPiercingByGlock:

Originally Posted By 9mmUser:
"Fact" that OP wants is not exactly a fact.

oh yeah IBTL

Oh but THEY ARE FACTS,,,, we are just not allowed to say they are facts, we need to mask them as something else....because someone's feelings may get hurt.

Prove it.

Go look at you crime statistics, School Test Scores, Unemployment Rates, Rates of Those Collecting Welfare compared to the number of people of the same race in the country.

And HOW exxactly are you not "allowed" to post that on ar15.com

I see crime statistics related to race posted on ar15.com all the time. Based on FBI statistics, it is VERY clear that there are higher rates of crime in the black population than in the white population.

However, if instead of posting FBI or .gov stats, people are posting stats provided by white supremacist organizations, then that might be a small problem.

See the difference?

This isn't a democracy, it's a cheerocracy !

9mmUser

Joined Oct 2005
Posts 2199
EE Offline

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:42:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By readytorock556:
You do realize that you have to take in account population size. Blacks only make up 15- 20% of the population.

You do realize that whoever wrote this compared it with population size given by Census.

Subnet

Round on the ends and high in the middle.

Joined Apr 2004
Posts 33351
EE Offline

OH, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:44:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By jfrankparnell:

Originally Posted By Subnet:
White guilt.

Basically, if you point out that predominantly black or Hispanic areas tend to have higher crime rates than predominantly white areas, they freak out. They assume you're trying to assign a cause, when instead you're simply making an observation (and it's not exactly groundbreaking news, either).

well if that's not the cause, what's the purpose of that observation?

It's interesting (at least to me).

Whoever pissed in your Cheerios swiped your manners while you were savoring the taste.-FLAL1A

California_Kid Team Member, Redneck, Hippie Joined Jan 2001 Posts 15708 EE Offline CA, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:44:55 AM EST [Last Edit: 6/5/2008 8:45:21 AM EST by California_Kid] Thanks Merrell. You've made a good point. Who has a problem with those facts? I don't.

The_Beer_Slayer

Combat Moderator

Joined Nov 2000
Posts 39774
EE Offline

AL, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:45:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By 9mmUser:

check your im box.

TBS is an island of Sanity in a sea of bullshit.
jkstexas2001

Originally Posted By Cypher214:
If bigfoot makes it through 90 rounds of .223, 45 rounds of 9mm, and one sharp KaBar... he deserves my anal virginity.

stealbear

Member

Joined Nov 2004
Posts 375
EE Offline

FL, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:46:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By stealbear:
Because you are attributing those facts to race alone and not any other factors.

Find those same "facts" in eastern europe and see they have nothing to do with race.

No one is doing anything of the sort. Pointing out the obvious is not the same as assigning a cause. In this country, predominantly white areas tend to have less crime than predominantly black or Hispanic areas. So, what? In other news, the sky is blue. The reasons are complex, and you could probably write a book on it. But the correlation is no less valid.

I really don't understand why people get their panties in a bunch over this stuff.

You are right. but there are other places than arfcom that the same data is used to for the purposes i stated.

Maybe im just more cynical but i assume because arfcom is stricter that the only reason you are not seeing it in the open

readytorock556

Member

Joined Aug 2002
Posts 2939
EE Offline

CA, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:48:03 AM EST

[Last Edit: 6/5/2008 8:48:47 AM EST by readytorock556]

Originally Posted By 9mmUser:

Originally Posted By readytorock556:
You do realize that you have to take in account population size. Blacks only make up 15- 20% of the population.

You do realize that whoever wrote this compared it with population size given by Census.

I looked over it, and to me a relatively small population contribute equally in crime than a population 10 times larger. So to me I read it as blacks commit more crimes than whites for as few as their are. Although overall whites do commit more crimes than blacks because whites are vastly more populated. The who ratio thing I guess.

Maybe I need to go back to statistics cause I ain't following it correctly ....

Fuck the Police State

9mmUser

Joined Oct 2005
Posts 2201
EE Offline

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:48:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By 9mmUser:

check your im box.

Unfortunately I can't reply back to you

You Are Set To Not Receive Instant Messages And Are Not Allowed To Send.
Please Update Your Profile If You Wish To Use The Messenger System.

Merrell

Agent 87

Joined Apr 2003
Posts 19402
EE Offline

PA, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:49:04 AM EST

[Last Edit: 6/5/2008 9:32:25 AM EST by Merrell]

Originally Posted By 9mmUser:
I said you prove it not me. But since you are being a Norwegian, I'll provide the crime statistic posted by someone in another gun forum sometime ago.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm
According to 2000 census
http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2000/dp1/2kh00.pdf
White is 75%
Black is 12.3% of population.

According to FBI data(2006)
Arrests, City
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_49.html
White 67.0%
Black 30.5 %

Arrests, Metropolitan area
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_55.html
White: 75.8%
Black: 23.0%

Arrests, Nonmetropolitan Counties
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_61.html
White: 82.7%
Black: 13.7%

Arrests, Suburban Areas
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_67.html
White: 76.0%
Black: 22.6%

This is the arrest data I gleaned from provided FBI website. This data accounts for all the arrests, regardless of the crime. Compared to the census data(2000), Whites make up about 75.1% of population while blacks make up 12.3%

So if both races have equal amount of criminals committing equal share, the percent should be close to 75.1% and 12.3%.

In city, white is arrested about 67%, while blacks are about 30.5%. From immediate glance blacks get arrested more than whites, compared to census data of overall population. But since cities may have more blacks than suburban areas, it could be that more blacks could be arrested. It could also be that blacks indeed commit more crime and get arrested.

In Metropolitan area, the trend is similar except that blacks are still above the NATIONAL average, while population percentage is unknown.

When comparing in nonmetropolitan areas, whites get arrested more often than blacks and my bet is the population difference. In fact in this case blacks get about similar(slightly higher) percent in terms of arrest.

In suburban areas, the percents are back to the case where whites follow national percentage, but blacks go beyond that.

So in a nutshell FBI statistics do provide some insight, but it does not completely answer the question. Notice that whites include Hispanic population, and while arrest percentages are known, the population percentage of each category set by FBI is not known.

FBI provides more statistics,

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/arrests/index.html
Among the four categories of race reflected in UCR arrest data, 69.7 percent of persons arrested were

white, 58.5 percent of persons arrested for violent crime were white, and 68.2 percent of persons

arrested for property crime were white.

White juveniles comprised 67.1 percent of the juveniles arrested in 2006.

Black juveniles accounted for 51.0 percent of the juveniles arrested for violent crime, and white

juveniles comprised 66.3 percent of juveniles arrested for property crime. (See Table 43.)

While compared to national percentage of population whites have less percentage, whites still count for more than half of arrests. One area where blacks are arrested more are in juvenile area, where it is 51%

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
First thing you notice is that this is homicide percentage, and indeed blacks are 7 times more likely to commit homicide than whites. So does that mean blacks are the problem? I'd say no because,

Black victims are over represented in homicides involving drugs. Compared with the overall involvement of blacks as victims, blacks are less often the victims of sex-related homicides, workplace killings, and homicide by poison.

Race patterns among offenders are similar to those among victims

www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/ovrace.png
So as of 2005,
White on white homicide is the largest,
followed by blacks on black,
then black on white,
then white on black.

If anything, white on white is the problem.

Instead of cut & pasting data someone else found, examine which data they are posting.

Data can be spun a number of different ways, and the objective way to look at it is rates (typically per 100,000 people in this field)

Total numbers will always be biased by who comprises a larger chunk of the population.

Here is the Excel file comparing RATES for different crimes:

Race-specific arrest rates, United States—Part I and II Offenses

Straight from the FBI.

In terms of practical application, lowering one's risk exposure includes finding an area with a lower rate of crime, and a lower total population. Increasing either raises risk.

jfrankparnell

Band

Joined Jan 2006
Posts 3279
EE Offline

USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:52:58 AM EST

[Last Edit: 6/5/2008 8:56:50 AM EST by jfrankparnell]

Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By jfrankparnell:

Originally Posted By Subnet:
White guilt.

Basically, if you point out that predominantly black or Hispanic areas tend to have higher crime rates than predominantly white areas, they freak out. They assume you're trying to assign a cause, when instead you're simply making an observation (and it's not exactly groundbreaking news, either).

well if that's not the cause, what's the purpose of that observation?

It's interesting (at least to me).

well i guess that's part of what the problem may be. if there is a discussion on the cause of a particular phenomenon, most people are going to assume that any comments, or facts, are going to be related to, if not directly implied as, the cause.

eta an example: if there's a discussion on global warming, and i say "lots of cars get shitty gas mileage" i'd be willing to bet that it would be inferred that i believe that air pollution is contributing to global warming.

72826

Powered by Linux

Joined Jan 2007
Posts 2964
EE Offline

TX, USA

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:54:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
If your facts are inflammatory or offensive towards any race other than whites (even if it's true), people get bent, even white people.

I just don't understand how the truth can be offensive.

If you claim to be offended by a fact, you're really just looking for a reason to start shit.

Originally Posted By Det0nate:
Takes a special kind of retard to argue the wrong side of second grade spelling.

Merrell Agent 87 Joined Apr 2003 Posts 19403 EE Offline PA, USA	Posted: 6/5/2008 8:54:35 AM EST It would be interesting to see stats on crime vs. lack of a father in the home (across any race)