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Posted: 4/13/2006 8:32:47 AM EST
Reading the story about that guy in Mass. who shot a stray dog that bit him, and then lost his firearms license for it got me thinking about this.

Why do people choose to live in places where their gun rights are hated and restricted to the greatest extent possible? Pro gun people who live in states like MA, CA, NY, IL, NJ, CT, they boggle my mind. I could understand people who live in close states like PA, OH or MN, places where if pro gunners left then the state would go anti, but places like MA, CA, NY, IL, etc are hardcore anti gun and there is no changing that. These are places that are actively inventing new gun control schemes and working hard to eliminate gun rights and disarm people. Places that are waaaay beyond the point of no return.

Why do you stay?
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 8:34:53 AM EST
somebody has to stay behind to fight the power!
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 8:35:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 8:35:37 AM EST
money, jobs, and family tend to keep people anchored in shitholes. in my military career i'm sure i'll be forced to do time in a commie state as well, though i would never live there by choice.

it's a shame that some of the greatest places in the country are communist shitholes. i would love to live in new england for the history there, but ironically the birthplace of the nation has rejected the very freedom they fought for. california is a beautiful place, but i could never live there.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 8:36:30 AM EST
Because it's not easy give give up everything you've created to move.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 8:36:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 8:37:08 AM EST
less threats if the SHTF, Shit if you got a 22 and a 38 you are a fucking commando
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 8:39:19 AM EST
Because guns are only a part of my life.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 8:39:54 AM EST
i always wondered this too. It makes no sense and i am in PA and feel as if i am i a anti gun state sometimes. I would give a nut to leave here for AZ or TX.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 8:41:50 AM EST
yea deftinally money and job and freinds
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 8:43:52 AM EST
Not all of us would have an easy time pulling up stakes and moving like you did Steve!

I'd do it if I had to. In fact I am hoping to move to NC or TN sometime in the future, those kind of places seem more my speed. But if a big ban was enacted tomorrow? dunno what I'd do.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 8:47:39 AM EST
It ain't the whole state that's fucked up, just the govt. and those folks who choose to live in Chicago.

Myself, I just like to piss people off.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 8:57:52 AM EST
Why do gun people live in anti-gun places?

To watch anti-gun people
make anti-gun faces
.


With apologies to Dennis Leary.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 9:02:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:
Why do gun people live in anti-gun places?

To watch anti-gun people
make anti-gun faces
.


With apologies to Dennis Leary.



Wow. You're an asshole.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 9:03:46 AM EST



i left my job and home in CT for exactly that reason. i even sent letters to all my "representatives" in CT telling them i was leaving specifically *because* of CT's repressive gun laws.

i moved to ME. i'm free-er, there are waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy less liberals (though a few show up during vacation season), and all my family and friends are already in this area. plus, bushmaster is up here. i'll be submitting resumes to them until i die, or get a job.


Link Posted: 4/13/2006 9:04:10 AM EST
What makes a state anti-gun? Colorado is pretty liberal on gun rights but we only got concealed carry a few years ago and local cities had some pretty severe restrictions on what rifles you could & couldn't own.

I could have moved to Vermont & Alaska, but luckily things changed.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 9:30:10 AM EST
Jobs/family/friends/ect

The most antigun place i ever lived was mid Michigan. Handgun ownership was rare as you needed to make two trips to the police department to buy a handgun and register the gun in triplicate with the local cops, dealer, and state police. Any firearm under 30" long was considered a handgun. Even BB guns, pistol grip shotguns, folding stocked AKs and M1 carbines. You needed a hunting license or CCW permit just to transport your unloaded and cased "pistol" from your house to the target range. The average gun owner had a .22 for plinking and a pump shotgun for deer hunting.

I lived there for 18 years because I was born there and thats where my family lived.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 9:56:36 AM EST
Because some people work where they live and others live where they work.

SRM
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:01:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Jobs/family/friends/ect

The most antigun place i ever lived was mid Michigan. Handgun ownership was rare as you needed to make two trips to the police department to buy a handgun and register the gun in triplicate with the local cops, dealer, and state police. Any firearm under 30" long was considered a handgun. Even BB guns, pistol grip shotguns, folding stocked AKs and M1 carbines. You needed a hunting license or CCW permit just to transport your unloaded and cased "pistol" from your house to the target range. The average gun owner had a .22 for plinking and a pump shotgun for deer hunting.

I lived there for 18 years because I was born there and thats where my family lived.



And then you moved to a free state, Kalifornia. Please stay out of the South
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:03:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By moparman71:
It ain't the whole state that's fucked up, just the govt. and those folks who choose to live in Chicago.

Myself, I just like to piss people off.



+1.

Once they lift the state residency requirement, I'm bustin' the cheddar curtain.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:12:36 AM EST
NY I know for a fact is hardcore conservative pro-gun anywhere except NYC metro. Most out of state people cant seem to grasp that NY is a state, not one giant city. We have mountains, lakes, trees and a huge portion of the state of sparsely populated. We are just mob ruled by one large city, they also rape our taxes etc.

Not to mention that people who live in pro-gun states like to tell me what my rights are. We have incomplete and easily circumvented gun control here yet I always have one asshole from out west telling me I cant have 30 round mags because I live in NY.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:13:19 AM EST
Dare I say... guns aren't everything.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:18:04 AM EST
Because we might have no other choice.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:20:26 AM EST
where i live in NY, many people are gun-friendly, and aside from our crappy laws, im here until i graduate from college and can afford to pack up and move, so i better make the best of it. things arent really that bad here, and i'll stay and continue fighting for my rights instead of retreating to a friendlier state for the moment.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:20:45 AM EST
Because life is a complex situation that involves more than what the local laws on guns are.

I live in CA because the weather is beautiful, everything imaginable is within 6 hours of me, and there is plenty of money to be made. I have lived here all my life and watched it go from a gun friendly state to just about the worst imaginable.

I own property in a very gun friendly state and will build and move there soon enough.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:22:12 AM EST
I was in California before the commie scum came here. Make them leave -- not me.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:25:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:
Dare I say... guns aren't everything.



You say that because you live in one of the most gun friendly states in the union.

And I would argue that guns are one of the most important things that you can own. Your house, your car, your money, your family and your life are all in greater danger if you are unarmed. Look at this poor guy in MA that I referenced. He was bitten by a neighbor's dog which got loose and when he defended himself by shooting the dog he found himself disarmed and facing charges. This man could wind up in prison for protecting himself from a dog that had just bitten him. How much of his life savings is he going to waste on legal fees defending these charges? Tell me what good his family, friends, house, car or job are going to be if he is convicted? Material possessions aren't everything, recreational shooting certainly isn't everything but life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is everything. Guns are essential to securing your life, your liberty and your pursuit of happiness.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:25:53 AM EST
Money, jobs, career options, friends. Depending on your career choices, you sometimes have to be in certain areas.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:28:14 AM EST
<----

My job and my education are here. After that, I'll be joining you folks in the land of the free. Not to bag on New York City. Great place to live minus the control, high rent, crowds, crazies, etc...
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:28:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By mattja:
Money, jobs, career options, friends. Depending on your career choices, you sometimes have to be in certain areas.



And what good will any of those things be if you go to prison for defending yourself, or even worse become a disarmed sheep waiting for some wolf to pick you out of the flock?

There are career options, jobs and houses in other places and you can make new friends.

Not picking on you, just giving my opinion.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:30:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 10:35:52 AM EST by Mauser101]
In a fight what else is it called when you retreat and keep on retreating? It's called losing.

I was born here to a military family. I stay mostly for the same reason.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:30:51 AM EST
I didn't chose to live in California as long as I did. Dad retired there in the 60's when I was still a kid.

I wasn't aware of politics and what went on beyond my immediate circle until probably the later 90's. Very dimly aware of the "gun control issue" but didn't think it had anything to do with me. I just went along with what I thought I was supposed to be doing in life (job, marriage, kids, mortgage). Took a few years in the school of "Real World Learning" to figure out that what "society" told me I should be doing and what I wanted to do were two very different things.

Moved out of California and was pulled back by the death of my parents in 1998. Got involved in a serious relationship that lasted several years.

Didn't become a gun owner and aware of how things REALLY are until after 9/11. Finally moved out of the state 2 months ago.

In short, there are a LOT of different reasons that "gun people" end up in anti-gun states. It's not as cut and dried as we would all like it to be. There are many variables that determine what an individual can do and when they can do it. Many don't have as many options as they would like and creating those options take time and a bit of luck.

With anything in life, it's a balance. What matters most and what are you willing to do to have that happen? For each individual it's different.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:33:27 AM EST
Until the SHTF guns seriously are just a fun hobby. Can you tell i never go to the survivalist forum? There seems to be a very fine line between being prepared and paranoid delusions of grandeur in a post apocalyptic world.

blah blah blah, militia, zombies, overthrow a facist government, 2nd ammendment blah blah blah. Um ok, but in the mean time I'd like to live in a nice and developed area.

It's just a unfortunate coincidence that most of the nicer/developed areas in the United States happen to be in the coastal areas, which have less friendly gun laws. I'd think, to get the best of both worlds a well developed city in Texas would be the place to go. Washington state luckily, is kind of middle of the road when it comes to gun laws. Class 3 is a bit more rare, but CCLs are easy to get and I don't forsee any anti EBR legislation on the horizon

Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:41:24 AM EST
Because this is home.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:48:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 10:49:37 AM EST by motown_steve]

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
Until the SHTF guns seriously are just a fun hobby.



Until you find a rabid dog in your backyard, or an armed burglar in your living room.


Can you tell i never go to the survivalist forum?


Yes.


There seems to be a very fine line between being prepared and paranoid delusions of grandeur in a post apocalyptic world.

blah blah blah, militia, zombies, overthrow a facist government, 2nd ammendment blah blah blah. Um ok, but in the mean time I'd like to live in a nice and developed area.



OK, forget all that stuff. What about robberies, car jackings, riots (there have been 3 riots in this country in the past 6 years: Cincinnati, Benton Harbor and New Orleans)?


It's just a unfortunate coincidence that most of the nicer/developed areas in the United States happen to be in the coastal areas, which have less friendly gun laws. I'd think, to get the best of both worlds a well developed city in Texas would be the place to go. Washington state luckily, is kind of middle of the road when it comes to gun laws. Class 3 is a bit more rare, but CCLs are easy to get and I don't forsee any anti EBR legislation on the horizon


Phoenix, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Houston, Austin, Indianapolis, anywhere in Florida, Atlanta, Raliegh and St. Louis are all highly developed and very nice (IMHO) cities in pro-gun states. Washington isn't too bad as far as gun control goes, so I really wouldn't count Washington among the anti states. But to say that you can't live in a nice, modern city with everything you could want in close proximity in a gun friendly place is ridiculous.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 10:57:43 AM EST
Think of it like the illegals. They have invaded your home and want to kick you out. Are you going to stay and fight or just leave?

My parents moved here when I was 1, and I have been here my whole life. Why should I have to leave MY home because of some MASSholes?

Remember, just because it hasn't happened in your state doesn't mean it won't. Right now MA is blaming the surrounding states for their lack of gun laws, caliming new federal laws are needed to force the "lazy states" to fix the problem.


Though I like NH much better, I hate the humidity in MA.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:03:13 AM EST
population density usally means fucked gun laws but it also means much better paying jobs on the average

so basiclly $$$$ for many people
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:15:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 11:15:55 AM EST by bullyforyou]


people always say stuff like "nice beaches, nice weather, and good money..."

if someone offered me a high-paying job, in an upscale area, where it was 70 degrees and sunny all the time, but the one concession was i could NOT speak about certain things, i would NEVER even dream about going there.

i guess people can justify it when it comes to guns though, because it's an object they use for fun most of the time. the unfortunate truth is, lack of free speech will most likely not kill you. lack of a gun when you need one, will.

Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:46:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By bullyforyou:

people always say stuff like "nice beaches, nice weather, and good money..."

if someone offered me a high-paying job, in an upscale area, where it was 70 degrees and sunny all the time, but the one concession was i could NOT speak about certain things, i would NEVER even dream about going there.

i guess people can justify it when it comes to guns though, because it's an object they use for fun most of the time. the unfortunate truth is, lack of free speech will most likely not kill you. lack of a gun when you need one, will.





Most of FL fulfills all of those things AND I can certainly "speak" about guns, even where I live in Palm Beach County.

The Gunshine State is always happy to take in new arrivals. It keeps the real estate market moving in the right direction.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:53:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:
Dare I say... guns aren't everything.



gasp

(that's the correct answer)

Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:54:05 AM EST
1.)

$$$$$$

2.)

Only way to convert them to pro-gun places is to live there.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 11:56:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By chuckhammer:

Originally Posted By bullyforyou:

people always say stuff like "nice beaches, nice weather, and good money..."

if someone offered me a high-paying job, in an upscale area, where it was 70 degrees and sunny all the time, but the one concession was i could NOT speak about certain things, i would NEVER even dream about going there.

i guess people can justify it when it comes to guns though, because it's an object they use for fun most of the time. the unfortunate truth is, lack of free speech will most likely not kill you. lack of a gun when you need one, will.





Most of FL fulfills all of those things AND I can certainly "speak" about guns, even where I live in Palm Beach County.

The Gunshine State is always happy to take in new arrivals. It keeps the real estate market moving in the right direction.




Link Posted: 4/13/2006 12:03:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 12:07:38 PM EST by npd233]

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Reading the story about that guy in Mass. who shot a stray dog that bit him, and then lost his firearms license for it got me thinking about this.

Why do people choose to live in places where their gun rights are hated and restricted to the greatest extent possible? Pro gun people who live in states like MA, CA, NY, IL, NJ, CT, they boggle my mind. I could understand people who live in close states like PA, OH or MN, places where if pro gunners left then the state would go anti, but places like MA, CA, NY, IL, etc are hardcore anti gun and there is no changing that. These are places that are actively inventing new gun control schemes and working hard to eliminate gun rights and disarm people. Places that are waaaay beyond the point of no return.

Why do you stay?



People that bitch about where other people live - they boggle my mind. If it weren't for pro-gun people in your state, you'd have the same crappy laws we do here. We just don't have enough of them, cause they all puss out and leave the state. If everyone here who was as pro-gun as they claim, actually took the time to pay attention to who they vote for and then followed up their vote with continual contact w/ their reps and senators, we might be able to win back some ground. Illinois isn't as hard-core anti gun as you think. The last change to our gun laws was in favor of those who owned guns - only slightly so, but still in favor of.

There is more to life than just guns, though, Steve. I live here because I have a great job, family in the area, and lots of things to do.


edit - just saw this:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
Until the SHTF guns seriously are just a fun hobby.



Until you find a rabid dog in your backyard, or an armed burglar in your living room.



I would say they qualify as "SHTF", and at least here, there is no law prohibiting anyone from owning a gun, defending their home, or downing a rabid dog.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 12:05:11 PM EST
I have no idea.

Its too important an issue for me to have to suffer under stupid laws that strip my ability to exercise Constitutional freedoms.

Would you live somewhere they restrained your freedom of speech?



Link Posted: 4/13/2006 12:09:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/13/2006 12:16:28 PM EST by Chairborne]

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
money, jobs, and family tend to keep people anchored in shitholes. in my military career i'm sure i'll be forced to do time in a commie state as well, though i would never live there by choice.

it's a shame that some of the greatest places in the country are communist shitholes. i would love to live in new england for the history there, but ironically the birthplace of the nation has rejected the very freedom they fought for. california is a beautiful place, but i could never live there.



Don't count on it. Look at where almost all AF bases are:



You have a much greater chance of being in TX or FL than some commie state. Beale and Travis are pretty much the only Kommiefornia bases, and McGuire in Jersey is about the only other one to worry about if you fly. This is my 6th assignment, and its the most commie state I have been in yet.

As to the original question, I have no idea. I wouldn't think twice about fleeing a commie shithole so I could excercise my rights. Some people just gotta be close to Mommie though, and can't get rid of the "family" security blanket.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 12:15:30 PM EST
Being close to my family and friends is more important to me than owning NFA firearms.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 12:15:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:
Why do gun people live in anti-gun places?

To watch anti-gun people
make anti-gun faces
.


With apologies to Dennis Leary.



Wow. You're an asshole.


And he's proud of it.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 12:16:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By GabbasaurusRex:

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:
Why do gun people live in anti-gun places?

To watch anti-gun people
make anti-gun faces
.


With apologies to Dennis Leary.



Wow. You're an asshole.


And he's proud of it.



Everyoine is good at SOMETHING.

Link Posted: 4/13/2006 12:19:35 PM EST
To continue the debate...

Even in the most anti-gun states, you aren't ever completely disarmed, as in Cali, you can have 10 round magazines, and shotguns and "un evil" rifles like WW2 style rifles are left alone... Also, how often do

Seriously though, I don't give a crap about gun laws in comparison to my career. If I was offered a 6 figure finance job by a multinational investment bank in San Fran like some of my friends were, I'd take it without even a hint of hesitation. If I was offered a job by the Houston branch of Citigroup, then whoopie! Best of both worlds, I get a great job AND keep the guns... catch my drift?

And about the rabid dog thing... wouldn't calling animal control, using a can of mace, baseball bat, or sword work as well? Not quite as well as a M4gery with an Eotech i'm sure, but if I had the option of turning in my EBR in exchange for some slightly less fancy weapons and a awesome career, i'd take it. I'm not going to sacrifice my career and opportunity to keep what is (until the SHTF) a fun hobby...

And lastly, do you know anything about expected utility? The probability of NEEDING a gun and gaining utility from it in the event of a robbery/riot/zombies is exceptionally low. The probability of gaining utility from having a nice job and living in a nicer area is exceptionally high... numbers are everything. Uneducated folk buy lottery tickets because they see a representative heuristic, and don't understand the true power of probability. When we round .001 to 0, that means we effectively regard 1/1000 as zero. What are the chances of winning the lottery? A bit less than killing a mugger in your home.
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 12:26:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
To continue the debate...

Even in the most anti-gun states, you aren't ever completely disarmed, as in Cali, you can have 10 round magazines, and shotguns and "un evil" rifles like WW2 style rifles are left alone... Also, how often do

Seriously though, I don't give a crap about gun laws in comparison to my career. If I was offered a 6 figure finance job by a multinational investment bank in San Fran like some of my friends were, I'd take it without even a hint of hesitation. If I was offered a job by the Houston branch of Citigroup, then whoopie! Best of both worlds, I get a great job AND keep the guns... catch my drift?

And about the rabid dog thing... wouldn't calling animal control, using a can of mace, baseball bat, or sword work as well? Not quite as well as a M4gery with an Eotech i'm sure, but if I had the option of turning in my EBR in exchange for some slightly less fancy weapons and a awesome career, i'd take it. I'm not going to sacrifice my career and opportunity to keep what is (until the SHTF) a fun hobby...

And lastly, do you know anything about expected utility? The probability of NEEDING a gun and gaining utility from it in the event of a robbery/riot/zombies is exceptionally low. The probability of gaining utility from having a nice job and living in a nicer area is exceptionally high... numbers are everything. Uneducated folk buy lottery tickets because they see a representative heuristic, and don't understand the true power of probability. When we round .001 to 0, that means we effectively regard 1/1000 as zero. What are the chances of winning the lottery? A bit less than killing a mugger in your home.



"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom; go from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you and let posterity forget the ye were our countrymen!"

-Samuel Adams

Link Posted: 4/13/2006 1:16:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Reading the story about that guy in Mass. who shot a stray dog that bit him, and then lost his firearms license for it got me thinking about this.

Why do people choose to live in places where their gun rights are hated and restricted to the greatest extent possible? Pro gun people who live in states like MA, CA, NY, IL, NJ, CT, they boggle my mind. I could understand people who live in close states like PA, OH or MN, places where if pro gunners left then the state would go anti, but places like MA, CA, NY, IL, etc are hardcore anti gun and there is no changing that. These are places that are actively inventing new gun control schemes and working hard to eliminate gun rights and disarm people. Places that are waaaay beyond the point of no return.

Why do you stay?



You're thinking too statically. Ex: "State X is anti-gun. Period. Don't ever live there. No matter what."

In reality, the world is a dynamic place. Everyone is constantly reacting to a multitude of influences. Nothing ever stands still. Any philosophy or movement that isn't growing or advancing is dying. Such as freedom and gun rights.

If we declare some areas to be the property of the enemy and leave them, then we have only achieved a temporary peace. The enemy isn't standing still either - if they don't have to fight for the territory they have, they will go after new territory, i.e. your areas. If we want to defeat the enemy, we have to go to where they are and fight them. If you want to lose, then run away and let them come to you and fight you.

It is a personal decision whether to stay in an anti-gun state and fight for your rights. You can run away to peace and relative safety if you wish. But don't claim that you're supporting freedom by doing so - you're hurting it.
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