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Posted: 7/22/2010 3:10:30 PM EDT
Conservatives are the first ones to jump into the fray and condemn class warfare. You say something about "The Rich" and you will get an earful from just about any conservative. Doubly so if you criticize multi-national corporations. I find this to be a curious conflict of interests since "the Rich" and multi-nationals seem to be out to destroy everything that conservatives believe in.

I came up with a quick and dirty short list of rich and powerful people right off the top of my head:

Warren Buffett - Socially and politically liberal, huge supporter of Obama.

Bill Gates - Socially and politically liberal, huge supporter of the UN and UN relief efforts in Africa.

Oprah Winfree - Socially and politically liberal, huge supporter of Obama, maybe the biggest supporter of Obama.

Mark Cuban - Socially and politically liberal, financed the movie Redacted and endorsed Michael Bloomberg for President.

George Soros - Socially and politically liberal, sworn enemy of conservatism

Now, these are some of the richest people in the world, and they actively use their money and influence to try and destroy the values that conservatives hold most dear.

Let's look at multi-national corporations now. Here you have businesses that have grown to enormous size and now use their power and capital to destroy free market economics, lobby for subsidies and bailouts and impose regulations that hurt middle class taxpayers. BP is a perfect example. During the oil spill debacle, it became widely known that BP founded a lobbying group with two other oil companies and used that lobbying group to become the biggest proponent of Cap and Trade in America. The trade off for them was that they would receive huge subsidies from the government in order to research and develop "green energy". Here's a company that used it's wealth and influence to a) try and destroy free market competition in the energy market, b) obtain large amounts of money from the government to fund their pet projects and c) impose crippling taxes and fees on consumers of energy.

So then, why is it that conservatives defend these people and institutions so vigorously? How can conservatives support these people and institutions while calling this "socialism"?

The absence of effective State, and, especially, national, restraint upon unfair money-getting has tended to create a small class of enormously wealthy and economically powerful men, whose chief object is to hold and increase their power. The prime need to is to change the conditions which enable these men to accumulate power which it is not for the general welfare that they should hold or exercise. We grudge no man a fortune which represents his own power and sagacity, when exercised with entire regard to the welfare of his fellows. Again, comrades over there, take the lesson from your own experience. Not only did you not grudge, but you gloried in the promotion of the great generals who gained their promotion by leading their army to victory. So it is with us. We grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used. It is not even enough that it should have been gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community.


Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:12:26 PM EDT
[#1]
"The Rich" to liberals is anyone that isn't on the public dole.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:13:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Because I love capitalism more than I hate liberal millionaires.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:13:01 PM EDT
[#3]
To me, its the idea that they got to their wealthy position in life because they were willing to work to obtain and maintain it, the ambition of obtaining security, the "American Dream" personified.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:15:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Because it's STILL their money whether they are conservative or liberal.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:15:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
To me, its the idea that they got to their wealthy position in life because they were willing to work to obtain and maintain it, the ambition of obtaining security, the "American Dream" personified.


But when they got it, they turned around and used it to destroy your freedoms, reduce your opportunities to make it in the free market and increase the involvement of the federal government in your life. Are you saying that the American Dream is to accumulate wealth so that you can impose your ideology on others and shut other people out of the free market?
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:17:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
To me, its the idea that they got to their wealthy position in life because they were willing to work to obtain and maintain it, the ambition of obtaining security, the "American Dream" personified.


But when they got it, they turned around and used it to destroy your freedoms, reduce your opportunities to make it in the free market and increase the involvement of the federal government in your life. Are you saying that the American Dream is to accumulate wealth so that you can impose your ideology on others and shut other people out of the free market?


Of course not. I was simply addressing why conservatives, in general, support the rich. I wasn't even thinking of the liberal part of the OP. I should have clarified.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:17:39 PM EDT
[#7]
Their money.
The problem isn't rich liberals.
the problem is politicians who don't honor their oaths of office.
Besides, rich people pay the bills, taxes and employ people.

Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:17:53 PM EDT
[#8]
You should really look up 'anecdotal evidence.'
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:18:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's the best system yet devised.



How much wealth has been created by Government?
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:18:35 PM EDT
[#10]



Most people who think of themselves as conservatives are middle class folks who aspire to be rich.  They envy the things the wealthy have, and have been deluded into believing that hard work will bring them that same wealth.  They toil away, accumulating things they believe identify them as superior to those who don't have them.  They feel they are moving up, when in fact they are simply pawns in the never-ending game of consumerism - a game that only benefits the smallest minority of individuals who are lucky enough to have born into money (real money) or devious enough to acquire their financial strength based on an absolute lack of morality.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:19:11 PM EDT
[#11]
I wonder if the "Super Rich " would have done so well with a .gov they now endorse back when they were making it???
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:20:13 PM EDT
[#12]





Quoted:








Most people who think of themselves as conservatives are middle class folks who aspire to be rich.  They envy the things the wealthy have, and have been deluded into believing that hard work will bring them that same wealth.  They toil away, accumulating things they believe identify them as superior to those who don't have them.  They feel they are moving up, when in fact they are simply pawns in the never-ending game of consumerism - a game that only benefits the smallest minority of individuals who are lucky enough to have born into money (real money) or devious enough to acquire their financial strength based on an absolute lack of morality.



Bull fucking shit.





 
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:20:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
To me, its the idea that they got to their wealthy position in life because they were willing to work to obtain and maintain it, the ambition of obtaining security, the "American Dream" personified.


But when they got it, they turned around and used it to destroy your freedoms, reduce your opportunities to make it in the free market and increase the involvement of the federal government in your life. Are you saying that the American Dream is to accumulate wealth so that you can impose your ideology on others and shut other people out of the free market?


And in the end, their money buys them the same number of votes as a poor man, one. They may influence the stupid and ignorant but one doesn't need money to do that.

A better question would be WHY are so many rich socialists at heart when socialism did not get them where they are today.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:20:58 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I wonder if the "Super Rich " would have done so well with a .gov they now endorse back when they were making it???


Ambition and lack of morals will take you as far as you want to go in any system. Look at the communist bosses in the Soviet Union. They lived quite well.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:21:47 PM EDT
[#15]
I defend legal behavior of any person.  If a rich person makes his money legally, I have no problems.  If they make their money by ripping people off or via fraudulent activity, that is not acceptable to me.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:21:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Because of their status in society, what's good for the rich tends to be good for society as a whole- unless we were to shift to an trul;y communistic system (which is impractical and unworkable outside of small groups of true believer, willing individuals). Think about Mill and his story about the landed proprietors and their most feeble desires (luxury goods- like diamond buckles) which trickle money down through the various merchants and artificers ... That, and conservatives respect individuals right to property. Some people are lucky enough to be born with a silver spoon, others have to work their way towards it. Some believe they don't need to do anything and they still deserve a silver spoon- that's the welfare class, well- a bulk of it–– there are a few people for whom things genuinely work out for (temp. or in the long run) despite their best efforts. The important thing is that they keep doing whatever they can to improve their situation (or it's obvious they are parasites like the rest).
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:22:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
To me, its the idea that they got to their wealthy position in life because they were willing to work to obtain and maintain it, the ambition of obtaining security, the "American Dream" personified.


But when they got it, they turned around and used it to destroy your freedoms, reduce your opportunities to make it in the free market and increase the involvement of the federal government in your life. Are you saying that the American Dream is to accumulate wealth so that you can impose your ideology on others and shut other people out of the free market?


And in the end, their money buys them the same number of votes as a poor man, one. They may influence the stupid and ignorant but one doesn't need money to do that.

A better question would be WHY are so many rich socialists at heart when socialism did not get them where they are today.


That's not true at all. George Soros has bought a lot of votes for his cause. He hasn't been able to cast the ballots himself, he's just used his money to convince millions of people to vote the way that he wants them to. Same with Oprah and the others.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:22:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
You should really look up 'anecdotal evidence.'


this. not so much defend as not attack im thinking.

democrats attack the 'rich' in order to obtain the votes of the poor and working class. is simply a political tactic and nothing more.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:22:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Because the average conservative isn't very bright.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:23:38 PM EDT
[#20]
I hate when liberals act like someone making $150k a year is "rich".  The numbers keep getting lower, some people think $100k a year is "rich", when it's solid middle-class
in most places.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:24:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
To me, its the idea that they got to their wealthy position in life because they were willing to work to obtain and maintain it, the ambition of obtaining security, the "American Dream" personified.


But when they got it, they turned around and used it to destroy your freedoms, reduce your opportunities to make it in the free market and increase the involvement of the federal government in your life. Are you saying that the American Dream is to accumulate wealth so that you can impose your ideology on others and shut other people out of the free market?


And in the end, their money buys them the same number of votes as a poor man, one. They may influence the stupid and ignorant but one doesn't need money to do that.

A better question would be WHY are so many rich socialists at heart when socialism did not get them where they are today.


That's not true at all. George Soros has bought a lot of votes for his cause. He hasn't been able to cast the ballots himself, he's just used his money to convince millions of people to vote the way that he wants them to. Same with Oprah and the others.


And those people are stupid and ignorant which is why they voted the way they did. And yes, even the rich can be ignorant.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:25:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
"The Rich" to liberals is anyone that isn't on the public dole.


To our commie administration rich, is anyone who earns more than 40K a year.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:25:47 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
"The Rich" to liberals is anyone that isn't on the public dole.


+1

The liberals attacks on the rich are retarded, and self defeating.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:25:57 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Because of their status in society, what's good for the rich tends to be good for society as a whole- unless we were to shift to an trul;y communistic system (which is impractical and unworkable outside of small groups of true believer, willing individuals). Think about Mill and his story about the landed proprietors and their most feeble desires (luxury goods- like diamond buckles) which trickle money down through the various merchants and artificers ... That, and conservatives respect individuals right to property. Some people are lucky enough to be born with a silver spoon, others have to work their way towards it. Some believe they don't need to do anything and they still deserve a silver spoon- that's the welfare class, well- a bulk of it–– there are a few people for whom things genuinely work out for (temp. or in the long run) despite their best efforts. The important thing is that they keep doing whatever they can to improve their situation (or it's obvious they are parasites like the rest).


That is proving to be untrue as well. Didn't a report just come out yesterday demonstrating that although most Americans are experiencing higher unemployment and financial uncertainty, the super rich are seeing 23% increases in wealth?

I'm not advocating a redistribution of wealth by any means, just observing a contradiction. It seems though that a rising tide does not elevate all ships.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:26:04 PM EDT
[#25]
Why defend the rich?

Progressives will attack the rich and extract as much from them as possible and they will eventually define me as "rich."
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:27:13 PM EDT
[#26]
Because as conservatives, we are generally hard working, and expect that eventually with effort and perseverance, we will wind up in that "Rich" category. We do not want it ruined before we get there.

Aviator
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:27:17 PM EDT
[#27]
I'd like to believe that if I worked really hard, came up with a new and revolutionary idea, etc. that I could become one of "the rich." I'd like to avoid penalizing people who had the temerity to become successful.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:27:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Because I'd like to be among their number one day.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:28:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
To me, its the idea that they got to their wealthy position in life because they were willing to work to obtain and maintain it, the ambition of obtaining security, the "American Dream" personified.


But when they got it, they turned around and used it to destroy your freedoms, reduce your opportunities to make it in the free market and increase the involvement of the federal government in your life. Are you saying that the American Dream is to accumulate wealth so that you can impose your ideology on others and shut other people out of the free market?


And in the end, their money buys them the same number of votes as a poor man, one. They may influence the stupid and ignorant but one doesn't need money to do that.

A better question would be WHY are so many rich socialists at heart when socialism did not get them where they are today.


That's not true at all. George Soros has bought a lot of votes for his cause. He hasn't been able to cast the ballots himself, he's just used his money to convince millions of people to vote the way that he wants them to. Same with Oprah and the others.


And those people are stupid and ignorant which is why they voted the way they did. And yes, even the rich can be ignorant.


Don't think for a second that these people don't have an agenda and plan. George Soros wants YOU to live under socialism, but he's not going to. He's got ways of hiding his money from the tax man, ways that even multi-millionaires can't touch. If his agenda is ever accomplished then he'll achieve even more power and wealth than he has now.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:30:02 PM EDT
[#30]
True conservatives will never defend the kind of people you're talking about; you;re confusing conservatism with Rockefeller republicanism, the watered-down shit which passes for "conservatism" these days.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:30:03 PM EDT
[#31]
I think we need to make a divide between "The Rich" as you describe them, and "The Rich" as they truly are. The Conservative Rich are those like Joe the Plumber, who worked for all he had. The Liberal Rich, especially ALL those you list, get wealthy by playing the markets and taking advantage of those of us who work for a living.

Joe the Plumber creates jobs here at  home. Liberal Rich send their jobs overseas.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:30:14 PM EDT
[#32]
because they create all the jobs and therefore bring in tax revenue...
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:30:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Because I'm already paying 1/3 of my salary in income taxes and would like a break instead of being reclassified as rich because I don't have 12 fuck trophies and a welfare check.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:32:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
You should really look up 'anecdotal evidence.'


Kennedy, Rockefeller, Ford, Bloomberg...all names associated with vast fortunes that are now also associated with the left.

Now, admittedly, not EVERYONE who is "rich" is a leftist, but "The Rich" tend to be.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:34:53 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
because they create all the jobs and therefore bring in tax revenue...


Actually, they don't. Most jobs are created by small businesses. These are created entrepreneurs who may become Well-to-Do, upper middle class, maybe millionaires, but not the kind of people who rub elbows with Mark Cuban and Oprah.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:35:35 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
To me, its the idea that they got to their wealthy position in life because they were willing to work to obtain and maintain it, the ambition of obtaining security, the "American Dream" personified.


But when they got it, they turned around and used it to destroy your freedoms, reduce your opportunities to make it in the free market and increase the involvement of the federal government in your life. Are you saying that the American Dream is to accumulate wealth so that you can impose your ideology on others and shut other people out of the free market?


And in the end, their money buys them the same number of votes as a poor man, one. They may influence the stupid and ignorant but one doesn't need money to do that.

A better question would be WHY are so many rich socialists at heart when socialism did not get them where they are today.


That's not true at all. George Soros has bought a lot of votes for his cause. He hasn't been able to cast the ballots himself, he's just used his money to convince millions of people to vote the way that he wants them to. Same with Oprah and the others.


And those people are stupid and ignorant which is why they voted the way they did. And yes, even the rich can be ignorant.


Don't think for a second that these people don't have an agenda and plan. George Soros wants YOU to live under socialism, but he's not going to. He's got ways of hiding his money from the tax man, ways that even multi-millionaires can't touch. If his agenda is ever accomplished then he'll achieve even more power and wealth than he has now.


True because there are always willing fools who will vote for the person who promises them someone else's labor and the earnings from it. The lazy poor [thus unemployed more often] tend to be democrats because they want something for nothing. Well, nothing but their freedoms but they will willingly give that up in exchange for other peoples labor and earnings.

They ARE slaves, they just are to ignorant to understand why.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:36:14 PM EDT
[#37]
Because the "rich" are the ones who start business's!
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:37:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Who here defends the rich, without qualification? I don't think you're going to find many Soros admirers around here.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:37:57 PM EDT
[#39]



Quoted:





Most people who think of themselves as conservatives are middle class folks who aspire to be rich.  They envy the things the wealthy have, and have been deluded into believing that hard work will bring them that same wealth.  They toil away, accumulating things they believe identify them as superior to those who don't have them.  They feel they are moving up, when in fact they are simply pawns in the never-ending game of consumerism - a game that only benefits the smallest minority of individuals who are lucky enough to have born into money (real money) or devious enough to acquire their financial strength based on an absolute lack of morality.


http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/stanley-millionaire.html

 
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:38:30 PM EDT
[#40]



Originally
Posted By h3smith:



"The Rich" to liberals is anyone that isn't on the public dole.



Quoted:


Because I love capitalism more than I hate liberal millionaires.


1st and 2nd posts nail it.



 
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:38:41 PM EDT
[#41]



Quoted:


Because I love capitalism more than I hate liberal millionaires.


Oddly, the second post nails it.

 
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:40:25 PM EDT
[#42]
We defend the 'rich' because we all aspire to be 'rich' one day.  We also recognize that they are the engine of our economy.  Without the "rich" I wouldn't have a job and neither would millions of others.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:41:23 PM EDT
[#43]
MILLIONAIRES tend to be Conservative.  They have money, but not so much they feel that libtard guilt.  Odds are, they EARNED their money.

BILLIONAIRES, on the other hand, probably got that much money by less than ethical means.  They have the libtard guilt and the money to "change the world".

I do think everyone on Steve's list fall in the second category.

Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:43:01 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
To me, its the idea that they got to their wealthy position in life because they were willing to work to obtain and maintain it, the ambition of obtaining security, the "American Dream" personified.


But when they got it, they turned around and used it to destroy your freedoms, reduce your opportunities to make it in the free market and increase the involvement of the federal government in your life. Are you saying that the American Dream is to accumulate wealth so that you can impose your ideology on others and shut other people out of the free market?


Our freedoms are their freedoms too.

I don't want politicians telling me how to spend my money, what I can say, or anything else. Why would I want to take those same the freedoms of "the rich"?
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:43:49 PM EDT
[#45]



Quoted:


Who here defends the rich, without qualification? I don't think you're going to find many Soros admirers around here.


Exactly.

 



It's not what they have, it's what they do.




A blatant and arbitrary classification status based on wealth does nothing to differentiate between those that are to be defended, or attacked.




But generally, defending the people that actually keep the economy going, keep people in work (Corporations are 'people', too), and in general allow the great technological and industrial advances in this country makes a LOT more sense than pitting the majority against them to gain power.




The funny thing to remember, is that it's not just the Right that defends the "Rich".




The left does, too.




Only the left demonizes them in public, while deftly scratching their back in private to gain power, and maintain it...




Both defend the rich.  Only Conservatives admit to it.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:43:55 PM EDT
[#46]




Quoted:



Quoted:

To me, its the idea that they got to their wealthy position in life because they were willing to work to obtain and maintain it, the ambition of obtaining security, the "American Dream" personified.




But when they got it, they turned around and used it to destroy your freedoms, reduce your opportunities to make it in the free market and increase the involvement of the federal government in your life. Are you saying that the American Dream is to accumulate wealth so that you can impose your ideology on others and shut other people out of the free market?




So blame the asshole that does it, not that fact that they have money.



Remember, rich people employ the middle and lower class and generally own the companies that make products we all love to buy....
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:44:07 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
because they create all the jobs and therefore bring in tax revenue...


Actually, they don't. Most jobs are created by small businesses. These are created entrepreneurs who may become Well-to-Do, upper middle class, maybe millionaires, but not the kind of people who rub elbows with Mark Cuban and Oprah.


They're the rich I'm defending.  It's less about defending rich people, more about who defines "rich" and what they "owe the country for their opportunities."
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:44:53 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Because I love capitalism more than I hate liberal millionaires.


+ motherfucking 1.

  Dunno about you, but I'd like for my hard work to pay off at some point, and if I cut these guys off at the knees now, how the hell can I say I worked hard to get there... and how could I expect any kind of fairness in return.   It's the honorable thing to do.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:45:44 PM EDT
[#49]
Because the rich get shit done... The definition of rich is laughable even. Liberals think anyone who makes 75,000 a year is too rich.

They most likely employ people, already pay the most taxes and have in some form or fashion, produced or provided a good or service to better our society.

Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:47:13 PM EDT
[#50]
Michael Caine says it pretty well:



"You're saying to poor people, 'let's tax those rich gits' and I
understand that. You slice up the cake, give everyone a chance, but
don't destroy the people that are making the bloody cake!"

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