Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
PSA
Member Login

Site Notices
4/1/2020 4:14:10 PM
4/1/2020 6:58:51 AM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 4
Posted: 1/8/2005 5:03:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 9:36:00 PM EDT by samsong]
God knows they created many more opportunities to lose than to win - but what was the primary reason?

1.) Declared war on U.S.?
2.) Italy as ally?
3.) Hitler distracted by idiotic pursuit of "Final Solution?"
4.) Attacking Russia before they were finished with Britain?
5.) Hitler was an asshat loser, so Germany never had a chance?
6.)  M1 Garand?
7.)  Eighth Air Force?
8.) Poor use of naval power?
9.) Dependence on slave labor?
10.) U.S. produces better "citizen-soldiers?"
11.) Underestimated American industrial output?
12.) Abnormally bad winter weather from 1942-1944?
13.) Made war against entire world, so bound to fail?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:04:27 PM EDT
Hitler.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:04:44 PM EDT
The primary reason was Hitler was addicted to methamphetamine.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:05:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By supersix4:
Hitler.



Dammit! You beat me to it!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:05:17 PM EDT
#4 is the immediate cause, but you can't discount the effects of the other reasons cited either.
They really spread themselve too thin.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:05:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By supersix4:
Hitler.



There ya go.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:06:37 PM EDT
Making the same mistake Napoleon made but with a much less competent, although carismatic, leader.

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:07:13 PM EDT
They underestimated the strength and resolve of the United States.
Also, IMO, our industrial capabilities were a major factor.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:07:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 5:07:51 PM EDT by garandman]
God willed it so.  They (Nazis) SHOULD have one.

Outside that, I would say freedom. Free men, and free nations possess a greater love of life, will to excel, and desire to do right.

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:07:30 PM EDT
Are you talking about the Germans?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:08:34 PM EDT
Underestimating the Russian Willpower.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:09:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
God knows they created many more opportunities to lose than to win - but what was the primary reason?

1.) Declared war on U.S.?
2.) Italy as ally?
3.) Hitler distracted by idiotic pursuit of "Final Solution?"
4.) Attacking Russia before they were finished with Britain?
5.) Hitler was an asshat loser, so Germany never had a chance?
6.)  M1 Garand?
7.)  Eighth Air Force?
8.) Poor use of naval power?
9.) Dependence on slave labor?
10.) U.S. produces better "citizen-soldiers?"
11.) Underestimated American industrial output?
12.) Abnormally bad winter weather from 1942-1944?
13.) Made war against entire world, so bound to fail?



I'm going to go with #1 and #11, although the rest do apply.

Ben
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:10:32 PM EDT
Because they didnt have the XM8!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:10:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalMan:
#4 is the immediate cause, but you can't discount the effects of the other reasons cited either.
They really spread themselve too thin.



that is why I said Hitler.... with a better 'leader' their generals would have kicked some more butt. don't know if  they would have ultimatly won. For instance, Hilter was convinced that the Normandy invasion was only a ruse. He would not let the Panzer divisions to the North of Normandy to be committed to the battle until the Allies had a firm hold on their position. Had Hitler listened to almost all of his high command, it would have been MUCH harder on the allies in Normandy.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:13:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CZ75_9MM:
Underestimating the Russian Willpower.



Not willpower.....MANpower.

Russians invented the human battle wave.

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:14:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By CZ75_9MM:
Underestimating the Russian Willpower.



Not willpower.....MANpower.

Russians invented the human battle wave.




and the T34
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:15:04 PM EDT
#1 followed shortly thereafter by #10 using #6.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:15:18 PM EDT
Artillery.  The Germans never respected the US GI, which is fine...Even as we took their f'ing country....But, they DID respect our artillery.  Our FOs could bring down TOTs with regularity.  Our artillery was one thing that struck fear in the Germans.

Main reason?

Hitler

The skinheads hate that he was a knucklehead.....

What can ya do?

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:17:40 PM EDT

Arrogance.

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:17:42 PM EDT
Hitler.

It was Hitler's decision to use the Luftwafe to finish off the English at Dunkirk. The Luftwafe failed, and the English army along with much of the French army was able to escape.

It was Hitler's decision to begin the bombing of London just as the RAF was on it's last legs. The shift in the Luftwafe's focus allowed the RAF time to rebuild, and eliminated Germany's chances to invade England.

It was Hilter's decision to open a second front in the East with Russia before Germany had succeeded in destroying England. This spread his forces too thin. If the full force of the German military had been able to focus on England, and THEN Russia BOTH nations would have fallen.

Remove Hilter from any of these scenarios, and we might be living in a completely different world.

Another huge factor was America's enterance into the war. If Hitler had pursuaded Japan to wait 6 months before attacking Pearl Harbor, Englad could have been destroied and America would have been standing alone DEFENDING ourselves on 2 fronts.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:18:29 PM EDT
Quite frankly...they lacked the infrastructure. That was the primary point. Throw in the lack of long-range bombers, and the tomb was sealed.

At the end of the war (hell, at the beginning) they still had the horse and carriage as one of their primary modes of logistical transport. That didn't fly.

They also didn't have any long-range bombers worthy of the name "bomber". Their bombing raids were carried out with light bombers at best, and fighter-bombers at worst. They didn't have the accuracy, range, or payload of any decent bomber worthy of the name.

Had they had more simple trucks and ANY decent long-range bombers? There's a VERY good chance England would have German as a second language, and we'd be offering trade terms to some assclown with a Swastika on his sleeve.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:19:09 PM EDT
hitler
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:19:30 PM EDT
Hitler underestimated the stoicism of the British.

Hitler underestimated the vengeance of the Russians.

Hitler underestimated the resolve of the United States.

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:21:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
God knows they created many more opportunities to lose than to win - but what was the primary reason?

1.) Declared war on U.S.?
2.) Italy as ally?
3.) Hitler distracted by idiotic pursuit of "Final Solution?"
4.) Attacking Russia before they were finished with Britain?
5.) Hitler was an asshat loser, so Germany never had a chance?
6.)  M1 Garand?
7.)  Eighth Air Force?
8.) Poor use of naval power?
9.) Dependence on slave labor?
10.) U.S. produces better "citizen-soldiers?"
11.) Underestimated American industrial output?
12.) Abnormally bad winter weather from 1942-1944?
13.) Made war against entire world, so bound to fail?



3,4, an 11.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:22:10 PM EDT
Their leader was a madman!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:22:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:23:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:24:12 PM EDT
Hitler and his henchmen.

Also the goon squads that turned the "liberated" Russians against the Germans by their atrocities of the locals.

Had the Wermacht taken Moscow, it would have been all over for Russia.  All Rail lines run thru Moscow, thus cutting off supplies particularly from the Urals to all of Western Russia.

BTW, there is a similar thread in the History forum.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:25:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MisterFloppy:
Because they didnt have the XM8!



+1

Also an overeliance on Lights, Lasers and Optics attched to carbine length weapons
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:26:17 PM EDT
Economic factors, mostly, and internal German/Nazi politics didn't help either.

Everyone forgets that the US was never completely mobilized as a nation.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:26:27 PM EDT
Strategic failure. Go read "How Hitler could have won WWII. by Bevin Alexander. Then apply the concept to our situation Iraq.  
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:27:19 PM EDT
A whole lot of speculation....but per what ive read, there was one major reason:

Invading Russia. The Russian campaign SEVERELY depleted the kraut divisions....the USA intervening only helped speed up the process of destroying their armies.

Had the germans concentrated on a two front war, rather than three, they could have kept france for the duration, and would have easily repelled us off the normandy beachhead. As a matter of fact, Overlord would have never happened.

The Russians fielded something like five divisions to every one american division, and had the manpower on hand to keep them at full strength. The german divisions we went up against from 1943 onward were usually at 50% of their standard operating size, or less. The "divisions" that surrounded the british 1st airborne army at Arnhem in Operation Market Garden weren't divisions at all, but "battlegroups" made up of understrength company sized units. Market garden should have been a cakewalk, but retarded british planning fucked that one up good...but I digress.

Had the germans found the means to sway hitler away from an all out push into the eastern front, World War II would have run until we nuked Berlin....

I recommend reading a book written by Max Hastings called "Armageddon" about the war from 1944 onward.

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:32:07 PM EDT

Strategic failure.


+1

Hitler was a good speech giver and motivator but not a good War Planner. He didnt  choose his battles strategically....if he did theres a good chance we would all be speaking German today.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:32:48 PM EDT
Wow! so many intelligent responses! Just when I think the ARFCOM board is just one smartass after another, guys like you show me the truth!

Great analysis, guys.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:34:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:

Originally Posted By MisterFloppy:
Because they didnt have the XM8!



+1

Also an overeliance on Lights, Lasers and Optics attched to carbine length weapons



Damn funny.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:36:29 PM EDT
The major turning point had to be the battle for Stalingrad, longest siege in history I believe. Basically Von Paulus's Army fell into a trap by taking the city and having the tables turned on them by Zhukov's army with a counter attack.

Battle of Stalingrad
Conflict World War II
Date June 28, 1942 - February 2, 1943
Place Stalingrad, USSR
Result Soviet victory
Combatants
USSR Germany; Romania;
Hungary; Italy

Soviet Casualties
1 million soldiers
about 100,000 civilian

Axis Casualties
500,000 (including 300,000 Germans)
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:36:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:38:25 PM EDT

 Mailnly because we killed all their guys and blew up all their shit.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:39:44 PM EDT
Waiting until they had Britain handled (and following up on the evac fiasco with a naval landing) before taking on Russia the next year would have won them the war.

Originally Posted By samsong:
God knows they created many more opportunities to lose than to win - but what was the primary reason?

1.) Declared war on U.S.?
2.) Italy as ally?
3.) Hitler distracted by idiotic pursuit of "Final Solution?"
4.) Attacking Russia before they were finished with Britain?
5.) Hitler was an asshat loser, so Germany never had a chance?
6.)  M1 Garand?
7.)  Eighth Air Force?
8.) Poor use of naval power?
9.) Dependence on slave labor?
10.) U.S. produces better "citizen-soldiers?"
11.) Underestimated American industrial output?
12.) Abnormally bad winter weather from 1942-1944?
13.) Made war against entire world, so bound to fail?

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:41:53 PM EDT

The major turning point had to be the battle for Stalingrad, longest siege in history I believe. Basically Von Paulus's Army fell into a trap by taking the city and having the tables turned on them by Zhukov's army with a counter attack.


+1

Watch "Enemy at The Gates"...it gives you a small idea,
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:42:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:46:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 5:46:46 PM EDT by obershutze916]
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:47:40 PM EDT
Germany could never have won a war on two fronts.  They simply didn't have the logistical trains for it.  Hitler should never have declared war on the USSR before finishing off Europe.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:48:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARSTAF:
Strategic failure. Go read "How Hitler could have won WWII. by Bevin Alexander. Then apply the concept to our situation Iraq.  



No, because it would be a false comparison.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:50:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By obershutze916:
Stalingrad was:
A) Not a siege, the city was taken.

B) Not a turning point in the war.

C) Not a trap.  It was stupidity on the part of the German High command.  They knew the exact date, place and time of the counter attack, they simply did nothing about it.



I thought Germany was on the defensive on the eastern front after that.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:52:18 PM EDT
For every one division the germans had on the western front, there were 3 deployed on the Eastern. After the battle of Kursk in July 1943 (the turning point in that front IMHO) - between July and September, the German military lost 215,000 men KIA, and 627,000 missing or captured...
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:53:13 PM EDT

Making the same mistake Napoleon made but with a much less competent, although carismatic, leader.

 +1
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:54:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:01:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:

Also the goon squads that turned the "liberated" Russians against the Germans by their atrocities of the locals.

Had the Wermacht taken Moscow, it would have been all over for Russia.  All Rail lines run thru Moscow, thus cutting off supplies particularly from the Urals to all of Western Russia.




Russia was ripe for liberation from Stalin and his purges but Hitler & the SS misplayed it.

Imagine if Stalin sued for peace, Germany gets the area west of Moscow and German built T-34 Panzers crush Shermans at Kasserine Pass.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:18:21 PM EDT
turned on Russia
Hitler got too involved in the weapon and vehicle design (ie ordering the Me262 to be used as a bomber instead of bomber interceptor)
There were some days before d-day decisions he made that were pretty dumb too but I can't remember the details
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:19:40 PM EDT
To bad Hitler didn't die in 1938, there wouldn't be a war and Germany would still have E. Prussia, Austria and Czech territories.

What a different world this would be.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 4
Top Top