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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/14/2005 9:00:26 PM EDT
Just curious why this is?

I was looking around and saw this, you know how much they are on the US market.
www.marstar.ca/Norinco/M-305.htm
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:04:10 PM EDT
Yeah but you're getting a better firearm buying U.S.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:05:02 PM EDT
I would love to buy one of those as much as most I imagine, but I've been having lots of thoughts about where the money I spend eventually ends up. Ultimately any money you spend on a Norinco product ends up in the pocket of the Chinese gov't. So I guess its really no skin off my back that Norinco's products are banned for importation.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:05:57 PM EDT
Fuck the Chinese!
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:07:03 PM EDT
Klinton banned chinese imports
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:09:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Klinton banned chinese imports



And gave China "Most Favored Nation" trading status.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:11:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Klinton banned chinese imports


I thought that President Bush banned importation of Norinco products back in 2003 (for two years)?
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:11:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Osborn:
I would love to buy one of those as much as most I imagine, but I've been having lots of thoughts about where the money I spend eventually ends up. Ultimately any money you spend on a Norinco product ends up in the pocket of the Chinese gov't. So I guess its really no skin off my back that Norinco's products are banned for importation.




Ahh but so many people here buy Toyotas and say Fuck the american economy. The money eventually goes to Japanese pockets and costs US jobs. Same principle, former enemy vs potential enemy.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:13:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Klinton banned chinese imports


I thought that President Bush banned importation of Norinco products back in 2003 (for two years)?



Correct.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:13:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
Ahh but so many people here buy Toyotas and say Fuck the american economy.



Do you have any idea how many Americans work for Japanese car companies?
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:15:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Klinton banned chinese imports


I thought that President Bush banned importation of Norinco products back in 2003 (for two years)?



Bush's ban was company wide for every product. Guns were already banned by Klinton. Technically I guess you can ban something twice.


www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-05-22-norinco-usat_x.htm

Once a manufacturer of tanks, machine guns and other weapons, Norinco has diversified and now produces more than 4,000 products, including light industrial goods, electronics, textiles, handicrafts, motorcycles and guns. A State Department official said the company exports more than $100 million worth of products to the United States annually.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:16:24 PM EDT
Toyota employs 200,000 in the US
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:16:57 PM EDT
Because the Chinese are in NO WAY our friends..It's bad enough that they have us hooked on cheap trinkets at every store we buy at (Walmart ain't the only sell-out corporation in town...), we don't need to help them make better guns by buying what they sell now.

IMO, there really isn't any difference between a Chinese private Enterprise and all of the companies that operate under the ChiCom umbrella. For the record, Norinco is government owned.

I don't want to get all high and mighty because I recognize the futility of trying to live a chinese-free life, but ask yourself how many pairs of boots and uniforms can be bought for the profit of a single M1A..

Dave
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:17:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 9:19:31 PM EDT by AssaultRifler]

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:

Ahh but so many people here buy Toyotas and say Fuck the american economy. The money eventually goes to Japanese pockets and costs US jobs. Same principle, former enemy vs potential enemy.



My Tacoma is made in Kalifornia

ETA: dont forget all the Camero and F body GM cars bought by US customers, they were made in Canada during most of the 90's
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:17:25 PM EDT
Dont worry, American companies will fill the gap. Stick it to 'em and BUY AMERICAN COPPIES OF CHICOM CRAP!
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:22:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 9:23:46 PM EDT by MuRDoC]

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Fuck the Chinese!



+1 but there are so many we need to split them up, I'll start with the chicks you start wth the guys
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:28:15 PM EDT
If they wanna stop the importation of all things Chinese into this country, I will support that. But to stop a Chinese compant from selling guns and ammo to the US market while allowing tons of other Chinese stuff to come in is BS.

I can understand the reason Bush took this stance toward Norinco.....selling missile parts to Iran is serious business. But the Clinton ban was BS.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:32:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 9:34:14 PM EDT by Cape_hunter]
DO you have a TV?
What about a Stereo?
Check your cell phone.
Check your monitor you are reading this from.

You cant live the way you do nad not buy foriegn goods.

Also, after the first purchase of an item is made, no more money will go to anyone but the guy you baught it from. If it was as some of you say, I would I would sell used cars for a living....well for a couple years anyway because after that ever time the owner sold the car, I would get cash

Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:32:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Klinton banned chinese imports



No he didn't. He only banned domestic manufacture of "assault style" weapons.

Bush Sr. banned most Chinese firearms from import.

Bush Jr. banned everything else not covered by the 89 Import Ban.



Important Notice to American Clients: while the 1994 Crime Bill (assault weapons ban) has ended, Chinese-made Norinco firearms are still prohibited from entering the United States under a different U.S. import ban. We would love to sell these firearms to Americans but the U.S. government will not let us.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:33:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By steve-oh:
Yeah but you're getting a better firearm buying U.S.



Actually US made Springfields pretty much suck these days. Polytech made forged receivers. Not sure about Norinco but they probably suck.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:34:38 PM EDT
blame the corporation that has shit made in China. Greed is good for the stockholders you capitalist running dog
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:35:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By steve-oh:
Yeah but you're getting a better firearm buying U.S.



Actually US made Springfields pretty much suck these days. Polytech made forged receivers. Not sure about Norinco but they probably suck.


+1 on the polytech
Also the money I spend on them is certainly not going to the Chinese.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:36:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 9:37:35 PM EDT by Enigma102083]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By steve-oh:
Yeah but you're getting a better firearm buying U.S.



Actually US made Springfields pretty much suck these days. Polytech made forged receivers. Not sure about Norinco but they probably suck.



Polytech is a division of Norinco I believe.

ETA: I've actually heard the polytech M1As are better than the american ones... Don't know myself, since no one is selling them.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:40:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 9:43:31 PM EDT by Mr45auto]

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Toyota employs 200,000 in the US




And how many american jobs would be lost if domestic producers go out of business?

Where does your money go? ....... JAPAN


On this note, if we quit buying Chicom goods how many longshoremen lose their jobs? Truck drivers? Wally world employees?

The argument that somehow jap cars dont suck the life from the US economy is laughable.

Damn, hijaking my own thread..... WTF....


I had a chicom M14 years back, the bolt sheared a lug and had a KB. I'd replace the bolt straight off before firing a shot.

It was accurate though and pretty reliable until the boom. The rifle did survive however but it killed the mag and dumped the contents on the ground.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:28:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By steve-oh:
Yeah but you're getting a better firearm buying U.S.



Actually US made Springfields pretty much suck these days. Polytech made forged receivers. Not sure about Norinco but they probably suck.



Polytech is a division of Norinco I believe.

ETA: I've actually heard the polytech M1As are better than the american ones... Don't know myself, since no one is selling them.



Polytech is forged, Springfield is cast.

Sadly the ONLY decent American M1A will be a LBR receiver wth a custom built using USGI parts. This will run you about $2,500 or so.

It is a CRIME that no US company makes a decent M1A for the price of a DSA FAL.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:15:39 PM EDT



It is a CRIME that no US company makes a decent M1A for the price of a DSA FAL.




+1,000,000,000


­I've seen a fed ord used one locally with TRW bolt and oprod for $750 and for some stupid reason didnt buy it...
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 12:58:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By steve-oh:
Yeah but you're getting a better firearm buying U.S.



Actually US made Springfields pretty much suck these days. Polytech made forged receivers. Not sure about Norinco but they probably suck.



I haven't had any problems with my 1911s. Or my M1A for that matter, after I dumped the chinese magazines.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:30:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 4:40:16 AM EDT by AssaultRifler]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Klinton banned chinese imports



No he didn't. He only banned domestic manufacture of "assault style" weapons.

Bush Sr. banned most Chinese firearms from import.

Bush Jr. banned everything else not covered by the 89 Import Ban.



Technically true, but Norinco firearms and ammunition were banned specifically by Klinton in 1994, so Bush's "everything else" just banned Norinco firearms and ammunition for the second time, they were already banned when he banned them. Boatloads of MAK90's and SKS's came in after the 1989 import ban, Norinco and others just make them 922R compliant. Norinco ammo kept on coming in till 1994 or so as well.

The Bush Jr. ban wasn't a Norinco specific ban unlike Klinton's and Bush Sr.

ETA: NRA link

"in 1994, President Clinton, by Executive Order, banned importation of firearms and ammunition from Red China, then a major exporter of AK-47-type semi-automatic rifles."

That's when the MAK-90's stopped being imported. Keep in mind too, Norinco made 1911, M1A, and Uzi clones with thumbhole stocks as well, they were imported after the Bush Sr. 1989 ban.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:29:04 AM EDT
SteyrAUG writes

It is a CRIME that no US company makes a decent M1A for the price of a DSA FAL.

+1

I guess I'm naive but it always amazes me that the big companies like RemChester and Rugarlin only cater to the once-a-year deer or duck hunter and ignore the people that buy guns and ammo by the box car like us.

You want to buy an AR ?. Kolt doesn't want to sell you one, you have to buy it from a smaller shop like Armalite or Bushmaster etc.

You want inexpensive ammo in bulk conatainers that are water-tight for long term storage ? Buy imported or surplus.
Remchester is happy selling $18 dollar boxes of 20 .270 or whatever wacky flavor of the month caliber the gun magazines are pushing. (.223 BDSM or whatever)

Police service weapon ?. 99% carry Glock or SIG. Austria and Gemany

If you want any kind of inexpensive self -defense homeland security weapon system you almost HAVE to buy from overseas. SKS/AK/FAL/etc.

I guess the stock holders from the big gun companies are happy or they would go nuts when they see their lost market share coming ashore in container ships full of products they won't sell.




Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:32:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:

Originally Posted By Osborn:
I would love to buy one of those as much as most I imagine, but I've been having lots of thoughts about where the money I spend eventually ends up. Ultimately any money you spend on a Norinco product ends up in the pocket of the Chinese gov't. So I guess its really no skin off my back that Norinco's products are banned for importation.




Ahh but so many people here buy Toyotas and say Fuck the american economy. The money eventually goes to Japanese pockets and costs US jobs. Same principle, former enemy vs potential enemy.

My toyota was made in America.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:43:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Toyota employs 200,000 in the US




On this note, if we quit buying Chicom goods how many longshoremen lose their jobs? Truck drivers? Wally world employees?




Good point. Buy Chinese to keep American jobs! It's patriotic!
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:50:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By steve-oh:
Yeah but you're getting a better firearm buying U.S.



Actually US made Springfields pretty much suck these days. Polytech made forged receivers. Not sure about Norinco but they probably suck.



Polytech is a division of Norinco I believe.

ETA: I've actually heard the polytech M1As are better than the american ones... Don't know myself, since no one is selling them.



I had one and it was Teh Suck.
Receiver was badly out of alignment (even the rear sights wouldn't stay put) and the rest of the rifle was no beauty either. I've read reviews that raved about the metal of the Polytech receiver, and many people have willingly spent good money to true the receiver and replace the bolt (very weak). I must have gotten one of the bad ones.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:29:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 10:38:11 AM EDT by Fenian]

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Klinton banned chinese imports



And gave China "Most Favored Nation" trading status.



well, it's a whole lot more complicated than that. MFN, I mean:

www.wcit.org/resources/publications/issue_briefs/ib_china_mfn_status.htm


www.ncseonline.org/nle/crsreports/economics/econ-87.cfm?&CFID=4517757&CFTOKEN=29690014
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 1:18:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 1:22:06 PM EDT by Cape_hunter]

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By steve-oh:
Yeah but you're getting a better firearm buying U.S.



Actually US made Springfields pretty much suck these days. Polytech made forged receivers. Not sure about Norinco but they probably suck.



Polytech is a division of Norinco I believe.

ETA: I've actually heard the polytech M1As are better than the american ones... Don't know myself, since no one is selling them.



I had one and it was Teh Suck.
Receiver was badly out of alignment (even the rear sights wouldn't stay put) and the rest of the rifle was no beauty either. I've read reviews that raved about the metal of the Polytech receiver, and many people have willingly spent good money to true the receiver and replace the bolt (very weak). I must have gotten one of the bad ones.



You must have gotten a badone as you said. All mine run perfect. The only troubles I have had have been with mags. Replaced with usgi and havent looked back.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 1:25:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By steve-oh:
Yeah but you're getting a better firearm buying U.S.



Actually US made Springfields pretty much suck these days. Polytech made forged receivers. Not sure about Norinco but they probably suck.



Polytech is a division of Norinco I believe.

ETA: I've actually heard the polytech M1As are better than the american ones... Don't know myself, since no one is selling them.



I had one and it was Teh Suck.
Receiver was badly out of alignment (even the rear sights wouldn't stay put) and the rest of the rifle was no beauty either. I've read reviews that raved about the metal of the Polytech receiver, and many people have willingly spent good money to true the receiver and replace the bolt (very weak). I must have gotten one of the bad ones.



You must have gotten a badone as you said. All mine run perfect. The only troubles I have had have been with mags. Replaced with usgi and havent looked back.



Don't forget the ugly grey finish and the really shitty (soft) wood.
One thing I've seen that is universally agreed upon is the bolt. Headspace is weak and the metal is very soft. Everybody I've spoken with says to replace it. Fulton Armory has a package, IIRC.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 1:58:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By weptek911:
SteyrAUG writes

It is a CRIME that no US company makes a decent M1A for the price of a DSA FAL.

+1

I guess I'm naive but it always amazes me that the big companies like RemChester and Rugarlin only cater to the once-a-year deer or duck hunter and ignore the people that buy guns and ammo by the box car like us.

You want to buy an AR ?. Kolt doesn't want to sell you one, you have to buy it from a smaller shop like Armalite or Bushmaster etc.

You want inexpensive ammo in bulk conatainers that are water-tight for long term storage ? Buy imported or surplus.
Remchester is happy selling $18 dollar boxes of 20 .270 or whatever wacky flavor of the month caliber the gun magazines are pushing. (.223 BDSM or whatever)

Police service weapon ?. 99% carry Glock or SIG. Austria and Gemany

If you want any kind of inexpensive self -defense homeland security weapon system you almost HAVE to buy from overseas. SKS/AK/FAL/etc.

I guess the stock holders from the big gun companies are happy or they would go nuts when they see their lost market share coming ashore in container ships full of products they won't sell.



I don't think the US companies catering to a particular market is the problem. The problem is too much trade protectionism.

The US companies can use some competition. It is healthy for the company, for the shareholders and for the marketplace. Sorry, but the employees need to stay competitive too. 20 years on a job is something my grandpa did, not my father and certainly not me.


Link Posted: 8/15/2005 2:02:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:


Don't forget the ugly grey finish and the really shitty (soft) wood.
One thing I've seen that is universally agreed upon is the bolt. Headspace is weak and the metal is very soft. Everybody I've spoken with says to replace it. Fulton Armory has a package, IIRC.



Finish, grey but not bad. The wood is not soft as you say. Not sure were you would draw the line on that. For example, I have about 5000 rounds thru one and the wear on the wood is not worse then any other gun I have. Also out of that 5k, I bet at least 4000 were rapidfire or bumpfired. So its not like I have been exactly easy on them. I have one that has a bolt replaced the others still have the chicom bolt and run fine. I check the HS often and havent seen any trouble.

The whole headspace issue IMHO is over blown. Yes there were some that had issues, but airline travel, you only here about crashes.

Honestly, from the SAs I have seen, I would take a poly over a standard SA anyday. Even if it was at the same price. I have seen way to many springfields with troubles right out of the box and that just pisses me off.
CH
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 2:59:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 3:02:18 PM EDT by jquillen1985]

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
Ahh but so many people here buy Toyotas and say Fuck the american economy. The money eventually goes to Japanese pockets and costs US jobs. Same principle, former enemy vs potential enemy.



Like the thousands of jobs created by the Honda plant in Alabama?

ETA: The deficits run by the federal government are infinitely more dangerous than the amount of money made from Wal-Mart, etc. WalMart employs more people than any mom and pop store ever could. Talk to the Feds about allowing to much US debt in China.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:06:06 PM EDT
I'm sure you guys will all be happy to have american companies owned by foreign interests. Chrysler is dead, the germans own it. How long before GM and Ford? How would you like to have your company gobbled up by Yatsushima international? American honda is an oxymoron. It's not made in america, just assembled here. It's a jap car.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:28:52 PM EDT
How would one go about acquiring the legal right to build old guns that aren't built domestically anymore?


Sounds like a challenge for some gun-friendly entrepeneur to me.
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