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Posted: 1/21/2008 7:08:09 AM EST
I personally think it should be the other way. Why is it ok to kill others but not yourself?



ETA, forgive my spelling stupidity
cmmg
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:10:10 AM EST
[#1]
You mean "allow" abortion, I think.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:11:05 AM EST
[#2]
I think people should be able to govern their own body in either case.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:11:07 AM EST
[#3]
your title is ... confusing.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:11:44 AM EST
[#4]
It should be pro-choice in both cases.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:12:38 AM EST
[#5]
I never knew anyone that went to jail for suicide.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:14:12 AM EST
[#6]
In a lot of states if you fail at your attempt of suicide you can be charged with a crime.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:14:56 AM EST
[#7]

Quoted:
I think people should be able to govern their own body in either case.


Sounds good to me other than the fact one case had a choice to take their life and the other case had no choice in the matter.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:17:23 AM EST
[#8]
Why do many religious people refuse to acknowledge that we evolved from a lesser from, but acknowledge that we grow from a lesser form (two single cells) and try and give single cells human rights?
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:17:28 AM EST
[#9]

Quoted:
I think people should be able to govern their own body in either case.


I argee people should be able to govern their own body, but your rights end where anothers begin. I view abortion as murder of a 3rd party. I do understand your point of view, its more of a question of determining if the baby is a human being with rights before it is born. I personally feel it is, you I assume do not.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:19:14 AM EST
[#10]
They both should be allowed.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:19:15 AM EST
[#11]

Quoted:
I personally think it should be the other way. Why is it ok to kill others but not yourself?


Simple...Insurance companies.
Can't insure an unborn person, but you can insure one that's outside the womb. That person offs himself, they don't wanna pay and they need a REASON not to pay.
Making it illegal means they don't have to pay.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:21:19 AM EST
[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think people should be able to govern their own body in either case.


I argee people should be able to govern their own body, but your rights end where anothers begin. I view abortion as murder of a 3rd party. I do understand your point of view, its more of a question of determining if the baby is a human being with rights before it is born. I personally feel it is, you I assume do not.


Yes, obviously a matter of opinion.  Seems like we have a few threads on the front page about this topic already so I'll not go any further.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:22:50 AM EST
[#13]

Quoted:
I never knew anyone that went to jail for suicide.


But if you try and fail, the authorites will call you mentally defective and take your guns!
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:24:34 AM EST
[#14]
Because like most special interest groups, women are "more equal" under the law.  They can do to themselves, or unto others (unborn child) as they like without reproach.  PC'ism in the US has made it darned close to impossible to question a woman's right to do anything.  If a woman wants to terminate her pregnancy by killing her unborn child, the law allows it.  If a man injures a pregnant woman deliberately or accidentally and the baby dies, he can be charged with murder or involuntary manslaughter.  


Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:26:41 AM EST
[#15]

Quoted:
I personally think it should be the other way. Why is it ok to kill others but not yourself?



ETA, forgive my spelling stupidity


assisted suicide isn't killing yourself.  Its someone else killing you at your request.

They are both cases of killing others.  

Assisted suicide isn't illegal everywhere, just most places.   Similar to abortion before Roe v. Wade.

Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:27:39 AM EST
[#16]

Quoted:
If a man injures a pregnant woman deliberately or accidentally and the baby dies, he can be charged with murder or involuntary manslaughter.  


So if a woman does the same thing they won't be charged with the same crime?
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:28:22 AM EST
[#17]

Quoted:
I think people should be able to govern their own body in either case.


+1
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:29:27 AM EST
[#18]

Quoted:
Because like most special interest groups, women are "more equal" under the law.  They can do to themselves, or unto others (unborn child) as they like without reproach.  PC'ism in the US has made it darned close to impossible to question a woman's right to do anything.  If a woman wants to terminate her pregnancy by killing her unborn child, the law allows it.  If a man injures a pregnant woman deliberately or accidentally and the baby dies, he can be charged with murder or involuntary manslaughter.  



DV8, you know I love you more than my luggage, but it really isn't a vast anti-male conspiracy.
It's about money.
Really.
The longer I breathe on this planet, the more I realize that money is what the lowest common denominator is in any "why is it" scenario.


Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:30:30 AM EST
[#19]

No its legal, just come to Oregon. Its legal here. Of course I wouldn't retire here if I were you. Just too many old people dying under questionable circumstances.

 Anyway the reason why its not legal everywhere is simply people looking out for themselves. Face it what is the use anyway of a law legalizing killing ones self. Once they have killed themselves its a waist a time to arrest the corpse. Also why would there be this big demand for help in killing oneself. Its not exactly hard to pull a trigger. There is also a long history of euthanasia around the world. Plenty of people have relatives who don't like them, but like their possesions. Plenty of people have had trouble with doctors of questionable ethics. So assisted suicide is not legal nationwide because it makes people nervous and worried about "could it happen to them". Its really hard to tell the difference between a case of euthanisia and assisted suicide.  Can't ask the victim afterwords about their wishes. Sure there can be safeguards but its not as if they will be followed. There not being followed in Oregon and there is no big noise about it.


As for why abortion is legal, it can't get you killed. It always will be someone else that gets killed, not you.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:30:43 AM EST
[#20]

Quoted:
Because like most special interest groups, women are "more equal" under the law.  They can do to themselves, or unto others (unborn child) as they like without reproach.  PC'ism in the US has made it darned close to impossible to question a woman's right to do anything.  If a woman wants to terminate her pregnancy by killing her unborn child, the law allows it.  If a man injures a pregnant woman deliberately or accidentally and the baby dies, he can be charged with murder or involuntary manslaughter.  




Two key issues that you are ignoring are a) choice in the matter and b) men can't get pregnant so they never have to face such a decision.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:30:51 AM EST
[#21]
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:34:28 AM EST
[#22]

Quoted:
I would have gone with another round of "hey how come it's separate crimes to kill a fetus AND the mother in a violent assault, but abortion is legal." I think that'd have way more potential to go past  say 5 or 6 pages.


And...I'm sure...more interesting for someone in your profession to debate.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:35:52 AM EST
[#23]
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:36:58 AM EST
[#24]

Quoted:
I would have gone with another round of "hey how come it's separate crimes to kill a fetus AND the mother in a violent assault, but abortion is legal." I think that'd have way more potential to go past  say 5 or 6 pages.
I didn't know there were other threads going about abortion today when I started this.  Mom and I were watching law and order the other day and there was a case about assisted suicide.  She asked me what I thought and I said "I don't understand how we can allow people to kill their unborn baby but not themselves"  That's what spawned it.  But I can edit it if'n ya want
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:38:59 AM EST
[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Because like most special interest groups, women are "more equal" under the law.  They can do to themselves, or unto others (unborn child) as they like without reproach.  PC'ism in the US has made it darned close to impossible to question a woman's right to do anything.  If a woman wants to terminate her pregnancy by killing her unborn child, the law allows it.  If a man injures a pregnant woman deliberately or accidentally and the baby dies, he can be charged with murder or involuntary manslaughter.  



DV8, you know I love you more than my luggage, but it really isn't a vast anti-male conspiracy.
It's about money.
Really.
The longer I breathe on this planet, the more I realize that money is what the lowest common denominator is in any "why is it" scenario.




That must be some nice luggage.

You are correct though, money is at the root of most if not all issues.  If you want to find out why a politician makes the choices/decisions he or she makes, follow the money.  It is no different with abortion, planned parenthood, gay rights etc.

There is a buck to be made on everything except for personal responsibility.  

ETA:  With such nice luggage, you ought to travel more often.  I could use the excitement.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 7:53:58 AM EST
[#26]
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 8:03:03 AM EST
[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Because like most special interest groups, women are "more equal" under the law.  They can do to themselves, or unto others (unborn child) as they like without reproach.  PC'ism in the US has made it darned close to impossible to question a woman's right to do anything.  If a woman wants to terminate her pregnancy by killing her unborn child, the law allows it.  If a man injures a pregnant woman deliberately or accidentally and the baby dies, he can be charged with murder or involuntary manslaughter.  



DV8, you know I love you more than my luggage, but it really isn't a vast anti-male conspiracy.
It's about money.
Really.
The longer I breathe on this planet, the more I realize that money is what the lowest common denominator is in any "why is it" scenario.




That must be some nice luggage.

You are correct though, money is at the root of most if not all issues.  If you want to find out why a politician makes the choices/decisions he or she makes, follow the money.  It is no different with abortion, planned parenthood, gay rights etc.

There is a buck to be made on everything except for personal responsibility.  

ETA:  With such nice luggage, you ought to travel more often.  I could use the excitement.


As if there's a buck to be made when a judge rules heavily in favor of the woman in a divorce. I just don't see it. I think we males have a soft spot for weemen and it shows in policy.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 8:20:39 AM EST
[#28]
What happens if a pregnant woman commits suicide?

Link Posted: 1/21/2008 8:35:23 AM EST
[#29]

Quoted:
I personally think it should be the other way. Why is it ok to kill others but not yourself?


Nobody has even been prosecuted for killing themselves. Its only those who FAIL to kill themselves that get to see the doctor.....

I think we should let free adults choose whether to bring children into this world, and when to leave this world.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 8:42:04 AM EST
[#30]
Why as a nation do we allow abortion but ban assisted suicide?


Because the government can't extort taxes from an infant, but can from an adult.


Link Posted: 1/21/2008 8:48:24 AM EST
[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I would have gone with another round of "hey how come it's separate crimes to kill a fetus AND the mother in a violent assault, but abortion is legal." I think that'd have way more potential to go past  say 5 or 6 pages.


And...I'm sure...more interesting for someone in your profession to debate.


I got bored with debating this around post 25,000. It's about as interesting as playing tic tac toe


Depends on who you're playing with, and the stakes, no?
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 8:49:21 AM EST
[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:

DV8, you know I love you more than my luggage,



That must be some nice luggage.

You are correct though, money is at the root of most if not all issues.  If you want to find out why a politician makes the choices/decisions he or she makes, follow the money.  It is no different with abortion, planned parenthood, gay rights etc.

There is a buck to be made on everything except for personal responsibility.  

ETA:  With such nice luggage, you ought to travel more often.  I could use the excitement.


It's a quote from a play I did with Daisy: Steel Magnolias
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 8:49:52 AM EST
[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I would have gone with another round of "hey how come it's separate crimes to kill a fetus AND the mother in a violent assault, but abortion is legal." I think that'd have way more potential to go past  say 5 or 6 pages.
I didn't know there were other threads going about abortion today when I started this.  Mom and I were watching law and order the other day and there was a case about assisted suicide.  She asked me what I thought and I said "I don't understand how we can allow people to kill their unborn baby but not themselves"  That's what spawned it.  But I can edit it if'n ya want


bah come up with your own ideas

Yeah there have a been a gaggle of abortion threads this weekend, not sure why. Seems like there were hardly any for months.


FWIW, I think one of them was actually about M4 feed ramps.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 8:55:07 AM EST
[#34]
Because one situation is only an elective procedure to rid the body of a parasite.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 9:24:14 AM EST
[#35]

Quoted:
Why do many religious people refuse to acknowledge that we evolved from a lesser from, but acknowledge that we grow from a lesser form (two single cells) and try and give single cells human rights?


I assume you mean lesser form.

Because we did not evolve from a lesser form, and there is NO proof that we did.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 12:01:41 PM EST
[#36]

Quoted:
Why do many religious people refuse to acknowledge that we evolved from a lesser from, but acknowledge that we grow from a lesser form (two single cells) and try and give single cells human rights?


I would argue on the use of the word 'lesser'. We evolved from earlier forms, but they were in no way 'lesser' since they had to be very well adapted to the environment in which they lived (otherwise they would have either starved or been eaten).
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 12:17:28 PM EST
[#37]
It's okay to kill unborn fetuses which can't consent to their own demise, but it is NOT okay to help someone voluntarily kill themselves.

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