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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:05:56 PM EDT
I don't get it. If you don't trust the government to regulate your getting a shot (and you shouldn't), why on Earth would you trust them to mould your young children??
I reckon a few links are in order: They Pry Them from Our Cold Dead Fingers  |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:07:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Because kids are a hassle and public school = free babysitting.
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:09:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Education is key to sustain a free, successful society. Healthcare is an example of "goods and services". Publish the prices, do not attach it to employment benefits and root out corruption.
Bananas and other fruits are important to our diet. Should the federal government be responsible for distributing bananas to our doorstep? |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:10:25 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Education is key to sustain a free, successful society. Healthcare is an example of "goods and services". Publish the prices, do not attach it to employment benefits and root out corruption. Bananas and other fruits are important to our diet. Should the federal government be responsible for distributing bananas to our doorstep?  |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:12:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Because kids are a hassle and public school = free babysitting. That's the biggest part. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:12:54 PM EDT
[#5]
It wouldn't surprise me if this thread doesn't get a whole lot of play- probably one of those topics people try not to think about.
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:13:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Public schools aren't run by the Federal Government.
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:14:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Left that "program" long ago. Homeschool FTW.
Seriously, the government is dominated by gangsters, perverts, and commie unions. My wife and I decided to leave the world of consumerism and government welfare (schools) behind and joined the world of normalacy. We're now amongst nice people, well informed, and well equipped. There is no substitute. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:15:16 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Public schools aren't run by the Federal Government. So socializing things is ok, but only for certain entities?? |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:15:34 PM EDT
[#9]
There may be a lot of federal money involved, put schools are basically still local affairs. Eliminate the Dept of education
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:16:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Public schools aren't run are heavily influenced by the Federal Government through programs like No Child Left Behind. Fixed 4 u. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:18:54 PM EDT
[#11]
I am really against the whole public school institution. I guess we spend less time discussing it because it is already part of our lives and doesn't seem to be going away any time soon. Socialized medicine on the other hand is still not a reality and we still have a chance to stop it. I would love to see this country abandon the public school system (in favor of every parent paying to support THEIR kids), but I don't think that it will happen any time soon.
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:23:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Public schools aren't run by the Federal Government. OVERVIEW Budget Office—U.S. Department of Education (ED) ED currently administers a budget of $62.6 billion in regular FY 2009 discretionary appropriations and $96.8 billion in discretionary funding provided under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009—and operates programs that touch on every area and level of education. The Department's elementary and secondary programs annually serve nearly 14,000 school districts and approximately 56 million students attending some 98,000 public schools and 34,000 private schools. Department programs also provide grant, loan, and work-study assistance to more than 13 million postsecondary students.
But yeah, you're right. Schools are not run by the Federal Government, they're run by the local members of the teachers unions. Totally harmless... |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:25:09 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
I am really against the whole public school institution. I guess we spend less time discussing it because it is already part of our lives and doesn't seem to be going away any time soon. Socialized medicine on the other hand is still not a reality and we still have a chance to stop it. I would love to see this country abandon the public school system (in favor of every parent paying to support THEIR kids), but I don't think that it will happen any time soon. YES!! 
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:26:12 PM EDT
[#14]
Who says we are?
My daughter is going private when she gets to that age. I despise the crap that is rampant in the public school system. Nick |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:26:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Because kids are a hassle and public school = free babysitting. I'd wager this is actually a big reason Plus it seems like it is ingrained into american culture, soc. medicine OTOH is new and foreign to a lot of people |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:26:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Anybody seen that video?
Or read that article? |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:27:18 PM EDT
[#17]
They Pry Them from Our Cold Dead Fingers
by Sharon Harris Once upon a time, in a land not so far away... It’s a lively community forum. A nice young woman named Jan Smith from Freeland (a tiny country tucked away somewhere in Western Europe) is telling us about how Freeland has solved many of the problems our local politicians have been struggling with. Some think our city council members could learn from Freeland’s example. “One of the problems we’ve dealt with quite successfully is the gun issue,” Ms. Smith says. “Now remember, we’re a free country like yours— we believe in individual liberty and responsibility. We certainly allow citizens to own and use firearms. However, we noticed that this creates several problems. Many people just don’t take proper care of their guns. They don’t know how to clean them, how to store them, how to make sure they are safe. Other people modify their guns in ways that are illegal or not in the best interests of the public. This poses a danger not only to themselves, but to the community. “Some of our cleverest leaders solved that. First, we passed a law requiring that everyone care for their guns and store them properly. We instituted a massive educational campaign to stress the importance of this. “That helped, but of course there were still people who didn’t comply. The way we ultimately solved the problem was for the government to provide citizens with the service of taking care of their guns for them. “We built huge buildings in every community and hired firearm experts to work there. We passed a new law requiring everyone to drop off their guns at the building closest to them every morning, and then pick them up in the early evening. “Some complained this was inconvenient for them, so we created a system to pick the guns up at each home every morning and return them to the owners in the evenings. “Having the guns all day gives our government- trained firearms experts a chance to modify those that don’t comply with gun regulations, in addition to making sure they are cleaned and stored safely. It’s a win-win. Folks really appreciate this service! “A great side effect that we didn’t anticipate was that it gives more freedom to everyone! No longer do citizens worry about what might happen to their guns if they left them at home during the day, so they can go to work or run their errands in peace. They know their guns are safe and well-cared-for. And of course they appreciate not having to do the hard work of taking care of their guns themselves.” Councilman Brown interrupts with a question: “Have you encountered any problems with this system?” “Not really.” Ms. Smith pauses. “Well, some people complain that the government experts don’t do a good job. Some say that their guns don’t work as well as they used to, or that they prefer to take care of them themselves, for whatever reasons. No problem. To appease these complainers, we allow them to take their guns to private, licensed companies that provide the same service. Of course, not many people take advantage of these private services, because after all they have to PAY for them, whereas the tax-funded government service is free.” Councilman Jones: “Sounds great! This is something I think we should consider here.” I look around at the mostly conservative and libertarian crowd— who, predictably go ballistic. “You’ve got to be kidding!” says a man on the front row. “You’ll never see that here!” says another. “You’ll take my guns when you pry them from my cold dead fingers!” shouts a man in the back row, and soon the crowd is on its feet— echoing his statement and booing the politicians. Whew! It’s clear we won’t see this sort of thing in my community any time soon. As I nod in agreement with the crowd, I notice an image out of the corner of my eye—a bright yellow school bus is passing by the window. And suddenly I realize that just about everyone in the room allows government workers to come every day and take away something—something far more precious than any piece of metal. That big yellow school bus takes our children to huge government buildings where most of their waking hours are spent. Where each day begins with an invocation of loyalty to the state. Where their most treasured spiritual values and symbols are banished. Where peer pressure replaces family values. Where the truly important questions of life can’t be asked, much less answered. Where pop culture surpasses the classics. Where socialism is taught—both in theory and by example. Where conformity and indoctrination are far more important than thinking or reading... Libertarians and most conservatives boldly and nobly take a stand for our right to keep and bear arms. Not so we can go duck hunting, but so we can defend ourselves and our families from invasion. And so we can, if necessary, defend our liberty from the possibility of a tyrannical state. But what if the tyranny we fear comes to pass—grown and nurtured in our very homes? Until we have equal passion for defending our children from the invasion of their MINDS—unless we take a bold and noble stand for the separation of SCHOOL and state—we will continue to allow our children to be taken from our warm, loving arms. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:28:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Why are so many people against socialized medicine, but blasé about socialized education?? A damn good question. It applies also to Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, welfare, etc... |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:28:23 PM EDT
[#19]
I don't have children and would prefer not to have to pay for education, .....but it's good for society.... so is health care.....but we expect people to pay for theirs and not everyone elses......but this is different... these are children............ .....
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:29:23 PM EDT
[#20]
I don't supports socialized education. Sadly, without it, many parents would not care enough to send their kids to school on their own.
The main beef I have with our system is that parents don't get to chose where their kids go to school. If you're going to rape me on property taxes to pay for education, then I'd much rather see the parents get vouchers to send their kid to whatever school they chose. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:29:46 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: I don't have children and would prefer not to have to pay for education, .....but it's good for society.... so is health care.....but we expect people to pay for theirs and not everyone elses......but this is different... these are children............ ..... And your point, I assume, is that children are our most important asset, so it should be even more of an outrage that the government meddles in their lives? |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:35:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Good point. I bought this up in a debate ages ago. Also bought up socialised roads. And socialised defense..though the last two are a little far stretched.
Better the Devil you know? |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:39:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Public schools aren't run by the Federal Government. I thought No Child Left Behind was a federal program. Oh, it is. Anyway.... To the O.P.... Let me answer your question with a little story. I have a friend who is pretty hardcore "republican". This guy is a really good friend, I just got him a good paying job. We like to get into political discussions all the time. Most of them are more like news updates when it comes down to it. Let me get to the point.... Every once in a while I will turn on the radio at Rush or Hannity time just to get some laughs or to fill some down time or whatever. Well, when I do listen to Rush or Hannity.... I know what to expect when it comes to my discussions with my friend. I know, completely, what his mind is going to be on every subject that the two radio hosts covered in their show. I know what about a particular subject that he will be upset about, the premises he will base his agitation or anger on, etc. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:43:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Public schools aren't run by the Federal Government. I thought No Child Left Behind was a federal program. Oh, it is. Anyway.... 
No Child Left Behind covers test scores and teacher education. The Fed. Gov. does NOT dictate to schools what to teach or how to teach it. Every state follows different curriculum. Av. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:48:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't have children and would prefer not to have to pay for education, .....but it's good for society.... so is health care.....but we expect people to pay for theirs and not everyone elses......but this is different... these are children............ ..... And your point, I assume, is that children are our most important asset, so it should be even more of an outrage that the government meddles in their lives? Actually that was a poor effort of a post, I was just showing how the argument goes, how people with children somehow think that because it's their children that everyone else should be willing to pay... I don't agree |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:49:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Yeah, there are shitty parents who won't teach their kids as much. There are also shitty parents who won't buy their kids nice shoes, or make them wear hand-me-downs, or drink cod liver oil, or not feed them at all, or stay up too late, hang with the wrong crowd...
This idea that the state has any sort of interest in children above and beyond that of any other citizen is how fascist dictatorships start. Who here read Animal Farm? The pigs take the puppies away from their parents, so they can be indoctrinated get a good education. When the puppies come back full grown, they're attack dogs. In short, if you think socialized education is good, but thought Obama talking to schoolkids was bad, you're a moron. You might as well complain about Pastors in church. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:51:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
I don't get it. If you don't trust the government to regulate your getting a shot (and you shouldn't), why on Earth would you trust them to mould your young children?? I reckon a few links are in order: They Pry Them from Our Cold Dead Fingers  Bx4pN-aiofw&hl=en&fs=1&
I don't. My son is getting his education at home, with fantastic results. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:51:47 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Public schools aren't run by the Federal Government. I thought No Child Left Behind was a federal program. Oh, it is. Anyway....
No Child Left Behind covers test scores and teacher education. The Fed. Gov. does NOT dictate to schools what to teach or how to teach it. Every state follows different curriculum. Av. NCLB disburses money and dictates school policy (including hiring/firing of administrators and teachers) based upon test scores. It then becomes in the schools' interest to teach to the test. Ergo, NCLB constitutes a Federal school curriculum. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:52:15 PM EDT
[#29]
It's simple.
We have one already, and have had it for decades, almost no one currently living did not have the option of public school. Also, I as much, if not more against public education than I am nationalized health care. It is parent's responsibility to teach their children, or pay for someone else to do it for them, or for individual communities to collectively take on the responsibility of teaching children, NOT the city, county, state, or federal government's. That's the thing I think a lot of people, especially leftists don't realize, we don't just not want socialized medicine, we don't just want to stop their agenda, we also want to go backwards, reduce government intrusion into private lives, and I can't think of a bigger intrusion than forcing our children to go to government run indoctrination centers for 8 hours a day. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 8:56:51 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
It's simple. We have one already, and have had it for decades, almost no one currently living did not have the option of public school. Also, I as much, if not more against public education than I am nationalized health care. It is parent's responsibility to teach their children, or pay for someone else to do it for them, or for individual communities to collectively take on the responsibility of teaching children, NOT the city, county, state, or federal government's. That's the thing I think a lot of people, especially leftists don't realize, we don't just not want socialized medicine, we don't just want to stop their agenda, we also want to go backwards, reduce government intrusion into private lives, and I can't think of a bigger intrusion than forcing our children to go to government run indoctrination centers for 8 hours a day. there are plenty of assholes here who dont wanna go backwards, they are fine with trampling freedom so long as its freedoms that others enjoy; ergo we have people here who are conservative on some things but liberal on others, which I like to call neo-conservatives, because they are not conservative but conservative on a few issues... |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:01:11 PM EDT
[#31]
I'm not blase about Public Schools. Lets run them through a roto-rooter next, starting with funding, IE: School Taxes, which directly relates to Property Taxes in my state. Time for a smack down ! Time to spread the pain!
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:01:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Because the schools have been around for 40+ years and have well indoctrinated them. They now think public schools are "normal" in spite of massive failures and being a bottomless pit of spending taxpayer money.
They haven't experienced socialized medicine yet so it still seems scary, rightfully so. Wait until they are on meds for 40 years and they will think waiting 2 years for a bypass operation is just as it should be. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:02:17 PM EDT
[#33]
I don't and if ever have kids would put them in a private school.
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:05:17 PM EDT
[#34]
My child will never darken the door of a Govt funded school.
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:05:59 PM EDT
[#35]
OP, this is why we have to fight so hard against socialized medicine: when programs like this are established, it's near impossible to go back.
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:08:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: I don't get it. If you don't trust the government to regulate your getting a shot (and you shouldn't), why on Earth would you trust them to mould your young children?? I reckon a few links are in order: They Pry Them from Our Cold Dead Fingers Bx4pN-aiofw&hl=en&fs=1&The fact that the US has had a form of public education functioning long before the first words of 'Das Kapital' were ever put on paper might have something to do with it (both the land grant universities, and the frontier-era one-room schoolhouse, were 'public' institutions)... Public schools being locally run (the US Dept of Ed does NOT set local curricula), vs national health care being a federal, top-down solution is another part... And the fact that there is not now, nor has there ever been a danger of private schools being wiped out by their public school counterparts probably fits another part... |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:09:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Because kids are a hassle and public school = free babysitting. And most sheep are too stupid to realize that the same school system that is screwing up their kids is the one that let the parents grow up without learning critical thinking. |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:11:41 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Because the schools have been around for 40+ years and have well indoctrinated them. They now think public schools are "normal" in spite of massive failures and being a bottomless pit of spending taxpayer money. They haven't experienced socialized medicine yet so it still seems scary, rightfully so. Wait until they are on meds for 40 years and they will think waiting 2 years for a bypass operation is just as it should be. The 'massive failure' part is another aspect: For many who did NOT grow up in the ghetto, the local public school is not a massive failure... Everywhere universal health care has been tried, it HAS been a massive failure... |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:12:57 PM EDT
[#39]
I approve of public schools...
.... in the kind of environment where the final year of high school you have a government-mandated class that indoctrinates you in why capitalism and the American way are superior, why socialism and communism are garbage, why you shouldn't try to pander to inferior cultures with no rights and who beat their women when ours is the best, and why the hardworking, free American individual is the pinnacle of human development on Earth. 
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:14:18 PM EDT
[#40]
FYI, my 'view' on education is that compulsory education and government-administered progress testing are both good...
However, education should be funded through vouchers - send your kid to private school, the per-head cost of education for that area goes to that private school... Public? The public school gets it... Home school? You keep it.. BUT if your kid fails his progress testing, off to public school, or a certified 'functional' private school he goes... Education is a public good - it is REQUIRED for a kid to have a chance at a self-supported, free market lifestyle... |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:14:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Public schools aren't run by the Federal Government. I thought No Child Left Behind was a federal program. Oh, it is. Anyway....
No Child Left Behind covers test scores and teacher education. The Fed. Gov. does NOT dictate to schools what to teach or how to teach it. Every state follows different curriculum. Av. How much free will can an organization exercise as a receiver of money from the federal government? |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:15:21 PM EDT
[#42]
DMV is good enough for the government. Barney Frank is good enough for the government. Public schools are good enough for the government. Are they good enough for your kids? They're not good enough for my kids. Homeschool FTW! |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:15:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Quoted: Public schools aren't run by the Federal Government. I thought No Child Left Behind was a federal program. Oh, it is. Anyway.... To the O.P.... Let me answer your question with a little story. I have a friend who is pretty hardcore "republican". This guy is a really good friend, I just got him a good paying job. We like to get into political discussions all the time. Most of them are more like news updates when it comes down to it. Let me get to the point.... Every once in a while I will turn on the radio at Rush or Hannity time just to get some laughs or to fill some down time or whatever. Well, when I do listen to Rush or Hannity.... I know what to expect when it comes to my discussions with my friend. I know, completely, what his mind is going to be on every subject that the two radio hosts covered in their show. I know what about a particular subject that he will be upset about, the premises he will base his agitation or anger on, etc. NCLB *still* did not transfer control of the public schools away from local communities. All NCLB said was 'You have to actually TEACH the kids, or we (the feds) won't give you any money... And the kids have to take a test so we can see if you are teaching them'... Curricula? Still LOCAL Adminsitration? LOCAL Test & Test-contents? STATE All NCLB did, was impose hiring standards for teachers, and link funding to test scores... |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:18:14 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Public schools aren't run by the Federal Government. I thought No Child Left Behind was a federal program. Oh, it is. Anyway.... No Child Left Behind covers test scores and teacher education. The Fed. Gov. does NOT dictate to schools what to teach or how to teach it. Every state follows different curriculum. Av. NCLB disburses money and dictates school policy (including hiring/firing of administrators and teachers) based upon test scores. It then becomes in the schools' interest to teach to the test. Ergo, NCLB constitutes a Federal school curriculum. The tests (and their content) are state administered. So NO federal curricula... Further, a sucessful school should be 'teaching the test' anyways, because the one thing that counts - the sum-total measure of an entire primary/secondary school career, is the ACT and or SAT... A 4.0 doesn't matter if you score a 15 or a 600... The 'test' is supposed to contain the essential skills that every student needs to understand - math, grammar, basic science concepts... You know, the stuff that the school is SUPPOSED to be teaching.... Grade School and High School are about learning skills for college, NOT about 'exploring knowledge' (that's what college is for)... Everything you NEED to learn from GS/HS can be measured on a scantron test, very easily... |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:22:04 PM EDT
[#45]
For 2008, my personal property tax(county) is $250; $184 of which goes to the schools.
I have no children. How do you think I feel about it? |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:36:01 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Public schools aren't run by the Federal Government. I thought No Child Left Behind was a federal program. Oh, it is. Anyway.... To the O.P.... Let me answer your question with a little story. I have a friend who is pretty hardcore "republican". This guy is a really good friend, I just got him a good paying job. We like to get into political discussions all the time. Most of them are more like news updates when it comes down to it. Let me get to the point.... Every once in a while I will turn on the radio at Rush or Hannity time just to get some laughs or to fill some down time or whatever. Well, when I do listen to Rush or Hannity.... I know what to expect when it comes to my discussions with my friend. I know, completely, what his mind is going to be on every subject that the two radio hosts covered in their show. I know what about a particular subject that he will be upset about, the premises he will base his agitation or anger on, etc. NCLB *still* did not transfer control of the public schools away from local communities. All NCLB said was 'You have to actually TEACH the kids, or we (the feds) won't give you any money... And the kids have to take a test so we can see if you are teaching them'... Curricula? Still LOCAL Adminsitration? LOCAL Test & Test-contents? STATE All NCLB did, was impose hiring standards for teachers, and link funding to test scores... 
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:38:18 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Public schools aren't run by the Federal Government. I thought No Child Left Behind was a federal program. Oh, it is. Anyway....
No Child Left Behind covers test scores and teacher education. The Fed. Gov. does NOT dictate to schools what to teach or how to teach it. Every state follows different curriculum. Av. NCLB disburses money and dictates school policy (including hiring/firing of administrators and teachers) based upon test scores. It then becomes in the schools' interest to teach to the test. Ergo, NCLB constitutes a Federal school curriculum. The tests (and their content) are state administered. So NO federal curricula... Further, a sucessful school should be 'teaching the test' anyways, because the one thing that counts - the sum-total measure of an entire primary/secondary school career, is the ACT and or SAT... A 4.0 doesn't matter if you score a 15 or a 600... The 'test' is supposed to contain the essential skills that every student needs to understand - math, grammar, basic science concepts... You know, the stuff that the school is SUPPOSED to be teaching.... Grade School and High School are about learning skills for college, NOT about 'exploring knowledge' (that's what college is for)... Everything you NEED to learn from GS/HS can be measured on a scantron test, very easily... What you need to learn? WTF? How about what you want to learn? WTF? |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:40:16 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: For 2008, my personal property tax(county) is $250; $184 of which goes to the schools. I have no children. How do you think I feel about it? Only people with kids in school should pay for school. If you can't afford to have kids then DON'T! |
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:41:35 PM EDT
[#49]
I don't know I'm against public schools as well as socialized medicine. Wish someone who doesn't use the public schools would at least be exempt from the taxes.
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Posted: 9/16/2009 9:53:31 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
For 2008, my personal property tax(county) is $250; $184 of which goes to the schools. I have no children. How do you think I feel about it? Only people with kids in school should pay for school. If you can't afford to have kids then DON'T! Should only people who have experienced a fire pay for firemen? Crime/police? Society has some costs I guess. |
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