Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
PSA
Member Login

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 7
Posted: 10/7/2005 1:41:59 AM EDT
Wouldn't a pistol be more practical?

Even with proper training, aren't long-guns still harder to lug around indoors?

You can get 30 rounds from the carbine, but are you going to fire 30 rounds in defense?

You get more range with the shotgun and the carbine, but are you going to shoot someone in defense at 50+ yards?

You get more stopping power from the shotgun and the carbine, but don't handguns have all the stopping power you would need?

What say you, ARFCOM?
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 1:48:17 AM EDT
Personally, an M4 profile carbine or M16 is too powerfull for a home defense situation. You have ssues  overpentration or the rounds, possibly hitting neighbors or family members. Ideally, a smaller caliber pistol(9mm, .38) or a 12g shotgun would be the best fit due ease of use and stopping power givin the situation.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 1:59:15 AM EDT
Think it depends on your house and property.. I live in a really small house a shotgun/rifle wouldn't work out at all..
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 2:03:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By deadcat:
Personally, an M4 profile carbine or M16 is too powerfull for a home defense situation. You have ssues  overpentration or the rounds, possibly hitting neighbors or family members. Ideally, a smaller caliber pistol(9mm, .38) or a 12g shotgun would be the best fit due ease of use and stopping power givin the situation.




That is contrary to the body of research on the issue.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 2:06:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Skammy:
Think it depends on your house and property.. I live in a really small house a shotgun/rifle wouldn't work out at all..


+1 That's the issue, what works in YOUR home/cardboard box.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 2:08:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By deadcat:
Personally, an M4 profile carbine or M16 is too powerfull for a home defense situation. You have ssues  overpentration or the rounds, possibly hitting neighbors or family members. Ideally, a smaller caliber pistol(9mm, .38) or a 12g shotgun would be the best fit due ease of use and stopping power givin the situation.




That is contrary to the body of research on the issue.



Research? Who the hell listens to empirical facts!?

We just act based on ignorance, heresay, Guns & Ammo articles and what some guy who knows a dude who used to be a Ninja Seal has to say about terminal ballistics and self-defense.

Geesh, didn't you know that?
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 2:10:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 2:19:13 AM EDT
For home def. I have a Glock 23 on the nightstand.   Makes me sleep better at night.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 2:54:11 AM EDT
Because nothing screams louder to a burglar to get the fuck out of here than that unmistakable sound of a shotgun being cocked!
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 3:12:29 AM EDT
An Uzi with 3,000 round clip would work the coolest on burglars!
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 3:15:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By deadcat:
Personally, an M4 profile carbine or M16 is too powerfull for a home defense situation. You have ssues  overpentration or the rounds, possibly hitting neighbors or family members. Ideally, a smaller caliber pistol(9mm, .38) or a 12g shotgun would be the best fit due ease of use and stopping power givin the situation.

AGNTSA!
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 3:17:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By deadcat:
Personally, an M4 profile carbine or M16 is too powerfull for a home defense situation. You have ssues  overpentration or the rounds, possibly hitting neighbors or family members. Ideally, a smaller caliber pistol(9mm, .38) or a 12g shotgun would be the best fit due ease of use and stopping power givin the situation.




That is contrary to the body of research on the issue.



Research? Who the hell listens to empirical facts!?

We just act based on ignorance, heresay, Guns & Ammo articles and what some guy who knows a dude who used to be a Ninja Seal has to say about terminal ballistics and self-defense.

Geesh, didn't you know that?



Didn't we have a Box O' Truth on the penetration of sheetrock walls and so forth that bore out that 9m hit with more neergy _after_ going through the wall than 5.56?

Is the site still up?

/PHil
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 3:30:16 AM EDT
I have a tripod mounted .50BMG at the front door. Makes me feel much better when I sleep at night.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 3:43:58 AM EDT
At night I have a loaded shotty, AR and Sig ready next to the bed should something go bump in the night.  Sometimes I grab the handgun, sometimes the shotty though most of the time it is the AR loaded with 60gr hollow points.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 3:53:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By spork:
Wouldn't a pistol be more practical?



Pistols are weapons of compromise. Their main asset is their portability, not their firepower or accuracy.



Even with proper training, aren't long-guns still harder to lug around indoors?



Using a long gun indoors can indeed be tricky, which is why carbines and short-length shotgun barrels are the norm.



You can get 30 rounds from the carbine, but are you going to fire 30 rounds in defense?



Do bad guys always work alone? Do you always hit your target? In the dark? While in fear for your life?

Then having 30 rounds at your disposal before a reload isn't such a bad idea after all...



You get more range with the shotgun and the carbine, but are you going to shoot someone in defense at 50+ yards?



What if they are shooting at YOU from 50+ yards? The majority of self defense shootings do happen at close range, but that isn't to say that you won't need to use your weapon at longer ranges. You will also find that the extended range of long arms is due to the fact that they are more powerful weapons, meaning that at close range they are more likely to stop a threat than a handgun is.



You get more stopping power from the shotgun and the carbine, but don't handguns have all the stopping power you would need?



Absolutely not. A handgun can indeed kill, but that is not the point of using a firearm for defense. The point of shooting someone is to stop their actions as quickly as possible, because they are trying to kill you.

I have seen people shot with a .45 at point blank range who STILL put up a fight.

If you want to stop someone from carrying out hostile actions against you, there is no better personally operated tool than a rifle to accomplish that.


 
What say you, ARFCOM?



Handguns are weapons of compromise. If you want to stop someone, you use a rifle.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 3:54:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2005 7:12:32 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By vito113:
Marlin 1894c in .357 makes a great 'home gun' … If a lever action rifle was good enough to protect your homestead for John Wayne it's good enough for anyone!

ANdy



Speaking personally, I use an AR to defend the homestead.......Pilgrim.

Link Posted: 10/7/2005 3:55:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BillLumberg:
Because nothing screams louder to a burglar to get the fuck out of here than that unmistakable sound of a shotgun being cocked!



Not really.

The sound of a shot being fired and the feeling of a bullet hitting him in the vitals sends an even clearer message.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 3:57:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By equin0x:
Didn't we have a Box O' Truth on the penetration of sheetrock walls and so forth that bore out that 9m hit with more neergy _after_ going through the wall than 5.56?

Is the site still up?

/PHil



www.theboxotruth.com/

Link Posted: 10/7/2005 4:11:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2005 4:12:24 AM EDT by Cypher214]
Wow.

A search would have revealed that this topic has been absolutely done to death.

In my opinion, a pistol caliber carbine that has been SBR'd is ideal for indoor defense.  +1000 points if it is suppressed as well.

With the addition of a light, this would be my ideal home defense carbine:

Link Posted: 10/7/2005 7:09:46 PM EDT
bump
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 7:14:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2005 7:15:57 PM EDT by Mr-H]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Marlin 1894c in .357 makes a great 'home gun' … If a lever action rifle was good enough to protect your homestead for John Wayne it's good enough for anyone!

ANdy



Speaking personally, I use an AR to defend the homestead.......Pilgrim.




Same here. No sense facing a potential threat with a handgun if you own one of the greatest fighting tools of our time.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 7:30:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 7:33:25 PM EDT
I heard that #4 buckshot will penetrate level XXVIII body armor and instantly kill anyone, but won't penetrate an interior wall at all!  
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 7:43:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spork:
You get more stopping power from the shotgun and the carbine, but don't handguns have all the stopping power you would need?



The more stopping power you have, the faster you eliminate the threat. Hence, you can never have enough stopping power. I'd go with an Abrams if it were practical.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 7:51:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2005 7:51:40 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By -Tex-:

Originally Posted By spork:
You get more stopping power from the shotgun and the carbine, but don't handguns have all the stopping power you would need?



The more stopping power you have, the faster you eliminate the threat. Hence, you can never have enough stopping power. I'd go with an Abrams if it were practical.



What the heck does "stopping power" mean, really?  What are we talking about?

I'd think that 30 rounds of .223 fragmenting inside someone's torso would be a lot more "stopping power" than a handful of 9mm rounds.

Ultimately shot placement is what's important to STOP a threat - and in the confused adrenaline rush of some kind of home defense situation, I'd rather have 30 high-power tickets to the lottery than any alternative.

Plus, a LOT of people seem to grossly overestimate the "spread" of shotgun buckshot at the short ranges inside a house.  You need to almost be just as accurate with a shotgun indoors as you do with a rifle, so why limit your magazine capacity?  A shotgun blast of buck is pretty devastating, but so is a fragmenting .223.  Again, I'd rather have 30 tries at a good hit than 8.

(Plus, in the HIGHLY unlikely event that someone has body armor - what are you going to do with your handgun then?  I know it's unlikely - but the entire home invasion scenario is inlikely in itself, so it's not too much of a stretch).



Here's my ideal home defense weapon:
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 7:53:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2005 7:55:20 PM EDT by Gungho_1989]
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=360981


This was a thread of mine from a few months back had alot of intersting opinions and viewpoints.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 7:55:08 PM EDT
870

nuff said
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 7:56:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bushwacker85:
870

nuff said




Apparently not, since so many people disagree

Link Posted: 10/7/2005 7:59:21 PM EDT
I am a shotgun man myself. 12ga 00 buck
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 7:59:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By deadcat:
Personally, an M4 profile carbine or M16 is too powerfull for a home defense situation. You have ssues  overpentration or the rounds, possibly hitting neighbors or family members. Ideally, a smaller caliber pistol(9mm, .38) or a 12g shotgun would be the best fit due ease of use and stopping power givin the situation.



Pistol calibers will go through walls too. In many instances they will penetrate farther than 5.56.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 8:02:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ctprelude:

Originally Posted By deadcat:
Personally, an M4 profile carbine or M16 is too powerfull for a home defense situation. You have ssues  overpentration or the rounds, possibly hitting neighbors or family members. Ideally, a smaller caliber pistol(9mm, .38) or a 12g shotgun would be the best fit due ease of use and stopping power givin the situation.



Pistol calibers will go through walls too. In many instances they will penetrate farther than 5.56.



2 minutes in the penalty box for bringing facts to the internet !!!

Link Posted: 10/7/2005 8:36:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 8:38:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By ZW17:
I am a shotgun man myself. 12ga 00 buck



Damn straight!



Remington or Mossberg?
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 9:03:26 PM EDT
Rem 00 buck is better than Mossberg 00 buck!!!!!

No shotgun is a HDR!!!  unless it is loaded for bear!!  and that would be SLUGS!!!

Repeat after me a shot gun is for killing water foul or birds,with slugs it will be a real bear killer!

A pistol is something you carry on your hip encase you are takeing a shit and your rifle or slugged shotgun are not with you!!!

Again a rifle or a slugged shotgun are your friends!  Pistols are just handy!!

Bob
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 9:17:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2005 9:20:38 PM EDT by ZW17]

Originally Posted By bobbyjack:
Rem 00 buck is better than Mossberg 00 buck!!!!!

No shotgun is a HDR!!!  unless it is loaded for bear!!  and that would be SLUGS!!!

Repeat after me a shot gun is for killing water foul or birds,with slugs it will be a real bear killer!

A pistol is something you carry on your hip encase you are takeing a shit and your rifle or slugged shotgun are not with you!!!

Again a rifle or a slugged shotgun are your friends!  Pistols are just handy!!

Bob



A pistol is made to fight your way to your shotty in the first few seconds of being woken up by the bad guys.

I would like to see anybody survive nine .32 rounds ventilating your body at the same time. Now multiply that by the 6 rounds I keep loaded in my Mossturd. 54 holes I could punch in you!
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 9:20:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By deadcat:
Personally, an M4 profile carbine or M16 is too powerfull for a home defense situation. You have ssues  overpentration or the rounds, possibly hitting neighbors or family members. Ideally, a smaller caliber pistol(9mm, .38) or a 12g shotgun would be the best fit due ease of use and stopping power givin the situation.



It has been shown that .223/5.56 rounds penetrate walls LESS than 9mm  rounds or shotgun blasts.  Do some research before you make comments like this.

Besides, an AR carbine is very handy in close quarters.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 9:21:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By deadcat:
Personally, an M4 profile carbine or M16 is too powerfull for a home defense situation. You have ssues  overpentration or the rounds, possibly hitting neighbors or family members. Ideally, a smaller caliber pistol(9mm, .38) or a 12g shotgun would be the best fit due ease of use and stopping power givin the situation.

AGNTSA!



Link Posted: 10/7/2005 9:29:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By deadcat:
Personally, an M4 profile carbine or M16 is too powerfull for a home defense situation. You have ssues  overpentration or the rounds, possibly hitting neighbors or family members. Ideally, a smaller caliber pistol(9mm, .38) or a 12g shotgun would be the best fit due ease of use and stopping power givin the situation.


You need to take a day, sit back, and read the Ammo Oracle.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 10:35:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 10:53:29 PM EDT
AR.

Dont want to have a shotgun in my hands if the crew coming through my door is there trying a home invasion. I beliee firmly in the +1 philosophy. They bring a pistol, I bring a rifle.  They bring a shotgun, I bring a rifle.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 10:55:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2005 10:56:55 PM EDT by M4-CQBR]

Originally Posted By spork:

Even with proper training, aren't long-guns still harder to lug around indoors?



That is why everyone should have a 12 guage with a 14" barrel  
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 11:03:51 PM EDT
Pistol, it is one of the best weapons for extreme CQB enviroments.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 11:08:02 PM EDT
Depends on your situation.  If you have small kids are are going to need to move, open doors and such to secure them and possibly carry them to safety, a pistol is way more practical.  If you can camp out in an area of cover, an AR or shotgun is the way to go.  It's a real bitch clearing with one man when using a longgun.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 11:33:25 PM EDT
how about remote mines placed througout your house, I hope thats good, because thats what I have.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 11:35:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By deadcat:
Personally, an M4 profile carbine or M16 is too powerfull for a home defense situation. You have ssues  overpentration or the rounds, possibly hitting neighbors or family members. Ideally, a smaller caliber pistol(9mm, .38) or a 12g shotgun would be the best fit due ease of use and stopping power givin the situation.



It has been shown that .223/5.56 rounds penetrate walls LESS than 9mm  rounds or shotgun blasts.  Do some research before you make comments like this.

Besides, an AR carbine is very handy in close quarters.



Sorry Larry as much as I respect you a .223 will penetrate much much than the pistol rounds you mention(see OP'S box of truth) never thought I would say that!!!

But what I had in question is about 00 buck into a heavy leather jacket,with two shirts underneath!

I think no penetration!!

Hi  Larry!

Bob
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 11:41:04 PM EDT
For indoors high capacity pistol caliber carbine.

Higher magazine capacity and longer sight radius than a handgun.

Lower discharge, recoil and less flash and smoke than a rifle or shotgun fired indoors.

Negligible recoil and muzzle blast allows rapid target acquisition and follow up shots as well as the ability to engage multiple targets in rapid succession.

All the reasons most guys like to run into buildings full of bad guys with something like the HK MP5.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 11:44:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Bushwacker85:
870

nuff said




Apparently not, since so many people disagree




I used to grab my 870 a lot until I had experience firing one indoors.

L-O-U-D and disorienting in a tight hallway. I grab it less these days.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 11:46:23 PM EDT
I think the focus here is centered more on the death bringing capabilities of a chosen weapon and less the practical application of using said weapon.  Obviously a longgun is a better choice for killing people, but is it a better choice when mobility is an issue and you may need a free hand for opening doors and carrying children?

There's a lot of decisions that go into picking the correct weapon for home defense.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 12:12:12 AM EDT
Check out Ol' Painless' "Box o' Truth" on drywall. pistols go straight through the house and rifle rounds(depending on the size) tumble way too fucking much for security in firing. A shotgun will go into a person and not through the entire neighborhood.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 12:36:40 AM EDT
A long gun is always better for a primary weapon. A handgun is always the secondary weapon. A shotgun is great if you are in a hallway and it is dark. It can clear that hallway out really well when using something like a birdshot and buckshot mix. The most effective use of a shotgun though is just the loud sound of pumping the action to scare the bad guy. A pistol is more maneuverable. Ever see some SWAT teams, the first guy in has a pistol and not an Mp-5 like the others that are backing him up. Rifles and SMG type weapons are better suited for more accurate shots. For home defense I can get to my pistol the fastest when needed. But if I can get to a rifle or shotgun then I’ll use that instead. I personally prefer an SMG. I use an UZI and am working on getting a suppressor for it. Rifles and shotguns are way too loud without ear protection indoors. I do have all the above weapons of course if I feel the need to be picky one day And I fully agree with what SteyrAug had to say.
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 12:37:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bobbyjack:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By deadcat:
Personally, an M4 profile carbine or M16 is too powerfull for a home defense situation. You have ssues  overpentration or the rounds, possibly hitting neighbors or family members. Ideally, a smaller caliber pistol(9mm, .38) or a 12g shotgun would be the best fit due ease of use and stopping power givin the situation.



It has been shown that .223/5.56 rounds penetrate walls LESS than 9mm  rounds or shotgun blasts.  Do some research before you make comments like this.

Besides, an AR carbine is very handy in close quarters.



Sorry Larry as much as I respect you a .223 will penetrate much much than the pistol rounds you mention(see OP'S box of truth) never thought I would say that!!!

But what I had in question is about 00 buck into a heavy leather jacket,with two shirts underneath!

I think no penetration!!

Hi  Larry!

Bob



Alright, I just did.  It seems to verify what I said.  The pistol rounds and shotgun blasts penetrated all 4 walls much easier and more in a straight line that .223/5.56.

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 7
Top Top