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Posted: 10/20/2004 7:25:39 AM EST
I mean really ...

I expect flaming but I am not trying to start a flame war. We broke down my friends ar-15 yesterday and there does not seem to be much to it. Well not $1000.00 worth of metal? Is it supply and demand or is it to keep the poor and broke from owning them ?
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:27:58 AM EST
Supply and demand, and all about making thr bling bling.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:29:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:30:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:31:26 AM EST
Liability, licensing, and other random legal hassles and roadblocks. Plus, people are willing to pay those prices. "The value of a thing is what that thing will bring."
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:32:12 AM EST
I think we are somewhat lucky to be able to purchase firearms during wartime.

What model AR is it for $1000.00?

MT
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:33:35 AM EST
I am not to sure it is a bushmaster though and he bought it from a local dealer . I think they totally raped him on the price because I have found a few guns online that resembled his and there were much cheaper .
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:35:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:36:49 AM EST
In '87... they were selling for around $500. Inflation hasn't gone up that much has it?

Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:36:19 AM EST
Dont forget licencing, transportation, and serial number requirements, as well as INSURANCE.

If DVD players had to be serial numbered with strict inventory controls, they would cost 500 bucks instead of less than a hundred as well.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:38:06 AM EST
I don't think they are.


Look at the costs involved with making them.

We aren't talking silicon chips (sand) and cheap stamped steel chassis here (AK's excepted)
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:39:23 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:40:02 AM EST
As previously mentioned, insurance and legal fees associated with friviolous lawsuits play a huge part. R&D for so called "smart guns" and increased regulation are also contributing factors. Along with simple inflation.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:49:14 AM EST
As mentioned... now firearms manufacturers need to be able to pay for insurance and laywers to fight the BS lawsuits brought against them. Maybe if legislation passed that protected them, they could ease off a bit, and maybe we'd see a little break.

I know Glock pistols cost Glock about $150 or so to make. Then we buy them for what, around $500? That's some profit!

Most dealers do not make much from selling a firearm. The pistol you bought from them for $500 probably cost them $450.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:50:18 AM EST
Get an SKS for $125.


Shoots great.


SGatr15
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:52:38 AM EST
If guns are so "profitable", I would suggest everyone buy STOCK in a gun company.


If the profit on a Glock were really that high, the dividends would be fantastic for the stock holders.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:55:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
If guns are so "profitable", I would suggest everyone buy STOCK in a gun company.


If the profit on a Glock were really that high, the dividends would be fantastic for the stock holders.



I didn't see one post claiming that the gun industry was profiteering. The question was "Why are guns so costly?" There's a huge difference between costly and profitable. I took it to mean that DV8Xbox wanted to know what types of overhead is driving up the cost of guns.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:55:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 8:56:00 AM EST by SHIVAN]
R&D, Insurance, raw materials and labor......
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:57:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 8:57:29 AM EST by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By motown_steve:


I didn't see one post claiming that the gun industry was profiteering.



Look closer - What do you call this?


Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:

I know Glock pistols cost Glock about $150 or so to make. Then we buy them for what, around $500? That's some profit!

Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:58:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:


I didn't see one post claiming that the gun industry was profiteering.



Look closer


My mistake


- What do you call this?


Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:

I know Glock pistols cost Glock about $150 or so to make. Then we buy them for what, around $500? That's some profit!




An idiot
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:58:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 9:00:13 AM EST by Happyshooter]
1. Federal Excise Tax
2. Liability Insurance
3. Machining and Skilled Trades costs
4. Middlemen (makers, sometimes to importers, distributors, dealers, sometimes a second dealer) each taking their profit and cost
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 9:02:40 AM EST
Infastructure, QC, some design, labor wages, labor benefits, insurnace, compliance with .gov programs, sales and marketing, parts and materials, shipping, testing, more lawyers, give-a-ways, and who knows what else.

When it comes down to it I'm sure they aren't reaping in piles of cash. With lawsuits and the necessary insurance coverage I'm sure they are paying high $$ premiums. Not to mention keeping the lights, heat, and AC on for their workers and their benefits. Its the "hidden" costs that I am sure drive up the prices. I'd love to buy a good AR15 for $100.00 but liberals would hate that. Then they really would be "flooding the streets."
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 9:03:55 AM EST
Most Weapons that we ARFCOM members buy are made in the USA, all the workers out there want their 401s and their health insurance and decent pay and sick pay and personal days and and... it goes on and on. It is very expensive to be in any business in todays society and in particular the Firearms business especially with the liability issues that have already been mentioned. It never fails to amaze me how so many guys want all the products they buy to be "real cheap" except the industry they work in of course
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 9:05:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 9:06:35 AM EST by Skibane]
Why are computers so expensive? After all, there's just a few bucks worth of metal and plastic inside (plus trace amounts of various chemicals). Same for game boxes, TV sets, digital cameras and most other consumer electronics.

As was previously mentioned, it's not the materials that make up the expense, but rather:

1. How those materials are arranged, and
2. How much legal and other corporate baggage comes along with them.

BTW, when you consider how well guns hold their value compared to just about anything else you own, their true worth becomes even more obvious. (How much is that Gateway 386 you bought for $2600 back in 1988 now worth? [:D )
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 9:09:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 9:10:37 AM EST by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By crowboy:

It never fails to amaze me how so many guys want all the products they buy to be "real cheap" except the industry they work in of course




AHEM!


Originally Posted By Skibane:


BTW, when you consider how well guns hold their value compared to just about anything else you own, their true worth becomes even more obvious. (How much is that Gateway 386 you bought for $2600 back in 1988 now worth? [:D )




Great point.

Not only do they hold value, eventually most of them increase in value.


Link Posted: 10/20/2004 9:19:11 AM EST
If you think the profit margin is big on guns, you only have to look at SUVs to see what drives prices. Supply and demand, dude.

The profit on an SUV ranges from $12,000 - $20,000. On a sedan, the profit is usually around $3,000.

If no one paid the prices they are asking for a product, either the price would decline, or the product would cease to be offered in the market place.

Link Posted: 10/20/2004 9:28:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By RevDeadCorpse:
In '87... they were selling for around $500. Inflation hasn't gone up that much has it?




hehe...that's not too far off.

I'm calculating 1987 dollars at a constant 3% inflation rate would be $826 by the end of this year. Using yearly inflation rates I got off "some web site" brings today's AR price to $773 using the 1987-$500 as a start.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 9:35:32 AM EST
Guns, like anything else are more expensive simply because we continue to pay whatever price the manufacturers demand. Manufacturers pay what their suppliers demand, an so on down the line. That last SOB in the chain must be one rich mofo.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 9:37:21 AM EST
Because people are willing to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a gun. If people wern't willing to pay that much (less demand) the prices would go down - at least until Dianne Swinestein stepped in and passed some legislation that artificially jacked up prices.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 9:42:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 9:43:43 AM EST by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By AdrianUSP9:
Because people are willing to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a gun. If people wern't willing to pay that much (less demand) the prices would go down - at least until Dianne Swinestein stepped in and passed some legislation that artificially jacked up prices.





Originally Posted By Hellboy:

Guns, like anything else are more expensive simply because we continue to pay whatever price the manufacturers demand. Manufacturers pay what their suppliers demand, an so on down the line. That last SOB in the chain must be one rich mofo.




You folks ever take an Economics class?

Those arguements fly in the face of logic.


High demand = higher production = reduced manufacturing costs


High demand = entry of competitors = reduced prices
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 10:48:25 AM EST
Jus' 'nutha zample O da man, keepin' the bruthas down.

Link Posted: 10/20/2004 11:22:29 AM EST
Firearms aren't that expensive to make. When everyine has their hands out for outsourced products, the price goes up expotentially. Lots of manufacterers don't make their own barrel. They buy it from someone else. You buy a barrel, you will get the markup added in, usually in the 300% markup range. That is being on the conservitive side.

After being in the industry, you see the prices as unreal.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 11:32:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:


I didn't see one post claiming that the gun industry was profiteering.



Look closer


My mistake


- What do you call this?


Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:

I know Glock pistols cost Glock about $150 or so to make. Then we buy them for what, around $500? That's some profit!




An idiot



There are also some quite impressive import/export taxes, as well as income taxes in the EU countries.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 11:34:33 AM EST
Government regulations and lawyers.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 11:44:25 AM EST
What the fuck is wrong with profits, You guys that are claiming outrageous profits wouldnt have a job with your great benefits without profits and yes as you can probably tell I am self employed. Try it sometime.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 11:46:26 AM EST
There are several forces at work here.

First, raw materials are one of the least expensive inputs on any good that is extensively manufactured. Your biggest cost in manufacturing are typically labor, followed by fixed overhead. The fixed costs are going to be there whether you make one or a million. It is only a question of how many units that cost is going to be spread out over.

The other question is really a good one, and ever better if you go a little further. The price of a firearms is determined by supply and demand. But why does someone willingly pay $800 for a good AR clone but not $100 for a very nice Mauser? At this point, you get into comparative benefits. I have no problem spending $100 on an old bolt action milsurp because I can look around and conclude that $100 spent elsewhere for entertainment won't get me anything nearly as long-lasting.

Entertainment? Yes, firearms are a part of the entertainment industry. We don't have to have them like food and shelter. We have them because we find them enjoyable to shoot, or caress, or brag about. There are many reasons to own firearms. But owning a particular firearms often boils down to entertainment value. A doy of golf, beer, eating out, etc. will eat up $100 real fast. But at the end, you don't have anything tangible. $100 spent on a good rifle or shotgun, can last for the rest of your life and will likely still have a good residual value. Using that reasoning, the rifle is a good buy whereas much less than that spent on something like a CD or DVD would for me be a poor value.

The simple answer is always that people will pay want they want to pay to get what they want. The fun begins when be investigate our motivations and perferences.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 11:59:24 AM EST
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