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Posted: 9/3/2004 9:13:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 9:20:57 PM EST by NYPatriot]
Seriously, what does it take before some people have had it with Islamofacism?

How many more children have to be slaughtered? How many more buildings have to fall? How many more decapitations need to be videotaped & aired? How many more American servicemen need to come home in flag draped coffins?

I just don't understand. I thought I was among brothers? I thought we were the ones who "got it"? Long-time, respected members of this site are being banned & others are having their accounts threatened because they are mad as hell over this unspeakable horror in Russia? WTH???

When is anger justified, if not now? When can we call a spade a spade & stop hiding behind the facade of misplaced tolerance & politically correct speech... when it's an American school that is attacked & it is our own flesh & blood that lays dead and mutilated???

I'm not looking to start a fight with this thread folks... I'm looking for real answers to hard questons.

NYP
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:16:51 PM EST
Anger is justified and acceptable here. We just gotta lay off the Kill em all and Genocide stuff. When we pay the bills for the bandwidth here we can change the rules. If it makes a shit, I don't like it either. hell I'm the site troll for crying out loud. But his terrible event has brought out our ass kicking mode and as much as we may not want to FLAME ON and let the rage rip we gotta repect the rules GB has put in place.
I know your prolly gonna rip me a new one for that, but we have all been through a tough day and emotions are raw.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:17:10 PM EST
We have become too civilized to deal with these terrorists.
We are not willing to step to their level and fight on an even field.
We should be better and respect their feelings and other such tripe.
This will get uglier and the sheeple here will either come to their senses or be destroyed by our enemy.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:17:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:

When is anger justified, if not now? When can we call a spade a spade & stop hiding behind the facade of misplaced tolerance & politically correct speech...




Evidently anger is not justified when it involves money.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:18:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
We have become too civilized to deal with these terrorists.
We are not willing to step to their level and fight on an even field.
We should be better and respect their feelings and other such tripe.
This will get uglier and the sheeple here will either come to their senses or be destroyed by our enemy.



I ain't no sheeple. Just operating within the boundaries...for now.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:20:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
We have become too civilized to deal with these terrorists.
We are not willing to step to their level and fight on an even field.
We should be better and respect their feelings and other such tripe.
This will get uglier and the sheeple here will either come to their senses or be destroyed by our enemy.



The British suffered from that very malady early on in the American Revolution and look at what it got them.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:21:24 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:22:33 PM EST
If anything we sure added to our post count. Bunch of post whores we are
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:22:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By Pangea:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
We have become too civilized to deal with these terrorists.
We are not willing to step to their level and fight on an even field.
We should be better and respect their feelings and other such tripe.
This will get uglier and the sheeple here will either come to their senses or be destroyed by our enemy.



The British suffered from that very malady early on in the American Revolution and look at what it got them.




Excellent analogy.

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:23:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:24:12 PM EST
somone lost his bunny slippers
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:24:32 PM EST
Yes, ANger is justified, but you are taking it out on the wrong people.

You are taking it out on the muslim people as a while, not the terrorists who do the acts.

Similarly, people take it out on us whenever theres a shootout or massacre.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:25:16 PM EST
Just wait till after W. wins the election.

It's gonna hit the fan BIG TIME!
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:27:41 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:35:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Look, here's the rule:

1.) Posting derogatory comments of a racial, religious, or sexual nature

It doesn't say "except for calling for the genocide of all muslims" this rule didn't mystically appear tonight.

Feel free to take it up with the Avilas if you want a "muslim exception." or if you're so distraught that you can't control your typing then log off.



So if it is not racial, religious or sexual it is OK?
If we called for the death of all terrorists (not Arabs or Muslims) is that OK?
If we call for the death of all enemies of America is that OK?
If we say we want vengance against anyone who wou;d do us harm is that OK?
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:43:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 9:46:30 PM EST by NYPatriot]
Aimless, please stop hiding behind the CoC of some Internet gun forum... I'm addressing a much broader issue here.

I want people to see the true & horrible face of radical Islam. I want them to get sick, disgusted, frightened, & angry because those are the natural & proper reactions to the inhuman acts that we have witnessed in Russia.

You do realize that we are engaged in WWIII? I want every American to understand that Western civilization & Christianity are in a bare knuckles brawl for their very survival, and that half-measures & misplaced cultural sensitivity will result in our ultimate defeat &/or assimilation!

Are you really telling me that shining the harsh light of truth on Islam="derogatory comments of a racial, religious, or sexual nature"??? We are both New Yorkers who lived through 9/11. You know first hand that this shit is bigger than you, me, or AR15.com.

C'mon man... step out from behind that staff position for a minute & hear what I'm really trying to say.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:49:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:52:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:58:04 PM EST
Your points and rules are valid and clearly understood, Aimless, but YOU (and a few other staff members and regulars) are grossly mischaracterizing and misreading criticism of Islamofacism and its practitioners as 'KILL ALL MUSLIMS', even when people like myself specifically disagree with that.

And the Idiots prattling about 'Religious Freedom Uber Alles' don't fucking get it, either.
Lot of damned good that Principle does, when it is ONE "religion" committing 99% of the murderous atrocities occurring around the Globe, EVERY DAY. Lot of good it does when they fly a plane into your building, or in a few years when they detonate an Iranian-manf nuke in an american port city.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:06:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:07:45 PM EST
Aimless...


You don't get it, why do you have it in your head that I am taking some position here? It you want to argue about the rules here take it up with the guys that write them.


Fair enough (I guess). So how about you do voice a position on this struggle for survival that the civilized world is engaged in. You seem awfully calm & collected in light of yesterdays events, so I'm genuinely curious what you think (not Aimless the staff member, but the real person sitting in front of his computer) about the nature of Islamofacism & how best to defeat it???

NYP
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:12:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:

You don't get it, why do you have it in your head that I am taking some position here? It you want to argue about the rules here take it up with the guys that write them. I'm not going to go around and around over this anymore than I'm going to argue over whether you should be able to call people niggers here or sell illegal machineguns.





and I think you know what I am about

Shame Shame Shame, someone is letting their emotions show
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:18:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:19:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:22:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
Aimless...


You don't get it, why do you have it in your head that I am taking some position here? It you want to argue about the rules here take it up with the guys that write them.


Fair enough (I guess). So how about you do voice a position on this struggle for survival that the civilized world is engaged in. You seem awfully calm & collected in light of yesterdays events, so I'm genuinely curious what you think (not Aimless the staff member, but the real person sitting in front of his computer) about the nature of Islamofacism & how best to defeat it???

NYP



I am not trying to answer for Aimless but the way you defeat terrorism and terrorists is to go after them just like our troops are right now. (Maybe we could be a little more harsh and not be so P.C.)
But we truely are not at war with all Muslims, because all Muslims are not our enemy.
Just like all Iraqis were not our enemy, all Vietnamese were not our enemy and all Germans, Italians and Japanese were not our enemy.

I am sure there are many who just want to live there life and be left alone. Unfortunately the people people in charge (like Saddam Husein) cause a lot of harm to the people and then we come in and try to fix things and we sometimes make it better and sometimes do not.

Has our military caused the death of innocents in war? Yes
Have we done far more good and saved far more lives than we have bad? Yes

We are not against all Muslims, but against all terrorists.
What percentage of Muslims are terrorists or terrorist suppoerters? I don't know
I pray for our troops and our leaders.
I pray our citizens are smart enough to re-elect the President so he can continue what he is doing now.
And I pray that we kill the terrorists before they come to our Country again and kill even one more American.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:23:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:27:57 PM EST

When I was an adolscent and became angry I kicked furniture and threw things, it doesn't accomplish much and completely going to pieces and losing your temper certainly doesn't accomplish anything, no one ever won a fight by flailing their arms around like 6 year old throwing a tantrum. I'd gladly have joined in gunning those assholes down, but posting about doing it on the internet seems little more than mental masturbation.




I have always had a better control of my emotions, throwing a tantrum only causes one to loose focus.
tears are for loosers, and pain is weakness. Remeber this and you will go far in life
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:38:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 10:50:41 PM EST by NYPatriot]
That's not an answer Aimless.

I asked how YOU would define the nature of the threat that Islamofacism poses to the West & Christianity? Do YOU believe that we are in the first days of a world war? What percentage of the Muslim world needs killing in your estimation... 2%, 10%, 25%??? Where does a judicious application of military force end & genocide begin for YOU?

What about Islamic nations that provide aid & comfort for terrorists? Are their civilian populations, industrial centers, and other assorted infrastructure off the table when it comes to punitive military operations? After all, they are not actually pulling the triggers or detonating the bombs, so do they get off scott free?

Do you believe that it was wrong & racist of the American media to demonize & dehumanize the Japanese & Germans during WWII? Were they violating some "CoC" when they portrayed our enemies as vermin in need of extermination?

Hard questions demand hard answers my friend.

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:43:31 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:44:08 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:47:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:

When I was an adolscent and became angry I kicked furniture and threw things, it doesn't accomplish much and completely going to pieces and losing your temper certainly doesn't accomplish anything, no one ever won a fight by flailing their arms around like 6 year old throwing a tantrum. I'd gladly have joined in gunning those assholes down, but posting about doing it on the internet seems little more than mental masturbation.




I have always had a better control of my emotions, throwing a tantrum only causes one to loose focus.
tears are for loosers, and pain is weakness. Remeber this and you will go far in life



LOL thanks for the sage advice oh wise internet guy




Hey it's Free what do you expect
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:50:08 PM EST
Aimless...


Oh for chrissakes give it a rest, it's 4 in the morning, don't be such a blow hard


... and that's still not an answer (but you already knew that).

Expecting better of you tomorrow...

Goodnight.

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 11:01:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 11:01:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 11:09:28 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
Seriously, what does it take before some people have had it with Islamofacism?

How many more children have to be slaughtered? How many more buildings have to fall? How many more decapitations need to be videotaped & aired? How many more American servicemen need to come home in flag draped coffins?

I just don't understand. I thought I was among brothers? I thought we were the ones who "got it"? Long-time, respected members of this site are being banned & others are having their accounts threatened because they are mad as hell over this unspeakable horror in Russia? WTH???

When is anger justified, if not now? When can we call a spade a spade & stop hiding behind the facade of misplaced tolerance & politically correct speech... when it's an American school that is attacked & it is our own flesh & blood that lays dead and mutilated???

I'm not looking to start a fight with this thread folks... I'm looking for real answers to hard questons.

NYP



It's not about 'misplaced tolerance'. It's about recognizing that sometimes a spade's an E-tool.

Anger at OUR enemies is justified, however it would make more sense if the anger was directed where it belongs, when infact it rarely is.

The mastery of Islam-as-a-cover-story is that not only do THEIR people believe it, OURS do to. We are easily lead to believe that it's 'Islam' that's the enemy, that every war that involves Muslims is a religeous/terrorist crusade, and so on... This leads to the calls to wipe 'em out, etc...

The reality is that it's far more complex than just 'Islam', just like an e-tool is alot more than a simple spade. I did a whole topic on this topic, so I won't reiterate it here... Let's just say that the Chechens would do this weather or not they are Muslims, it's the nature of the war they are fighting... Similarly, the real force behind all of this is the leaders of a few ME countries (hint, the ones which provide the most recruits: Jordan, the PA, Syria, Saudi, etc) who care nothing for Islam, excapt as a device to stay in power.

Oddly enough, the Chechen situation is what it is today because the Russians did what many of you advocate, they fought a no-holds barred, scorched earth campaign & it got them a blood feud that makes AQ seem downright friendly... Basically, it's as if AQ originated in Central America instead of the ME. It's not because the Russians were too civilized, it's this way because they were too brutal.

Here's the thread I started on the subject:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=270759&page=1

So you see, this is why I downplay the role of religeon in all of this... It's not about pig jokes & such, or being too civilized. It's about making sure we don't get so emotionally wrapped up in the war that we BECOME what we are fighting...

If anything, remaning 'too civilized' is the key to victory, something that has been demonstrated in every counterinsurgency situation immaginable. You must win in the eyes of the surrounding population, since once they see you as equally brutal they will side with their own monsters over foreign ones... The key to winning this sort of war is to capture the base population that is feeding the beast, something that cannot be done if they see you as equally bestial...
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 3:39:48 AM EST

Slay the infidels wherever ye may find them. Harrass them, beleaguer them, take them hostage and lie in wait for them with every means of trickery and deceipt. Qua'Ran, Surah 9:5
Any Questions?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 3:43:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:

You do realize that we are engaged in WWIII?



Actually the Cold War was WWIII...this is WWIV.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 3:47:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 3:50:04 AM EST
I agree with you.

Chris


Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:
We should all be angry at the terrorists..........muslim,christians,black or white.But to generalize from there to KILL/HATE ALL muslims,christians,black or white is unjustifiable!


Link Posted: 9/4/2004 3:51:41 AM EST
Mr. Avila... you KNOW that I would ordinarily be waving the same banner right along with you. But, I don't know anymore. I'm not suggesting you change the rules on the site at all. This is just a general attitude shift I sense within myself.

With this incident, you can probably expect the same thing to occur here in the USA before too long.

When it happens, will you still say the same thing? No amount of civil rights legislation will protect the mosques from burning.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 4:06:57 AM EST
We don't need to kill them all, but, if we would bomb some of the mosques they are hanging out in, maybe, they would not think "their" god is protecting them. It is pure ludicrous to think they do not believe their god is protecting the mosques they are hiding in. If we would just blow a few of them to the 72 virgins in the sky, they might think twice before hiding in them, and if not, we should blow a few more.

I really think we should show videos of our soldiers dipping their bullets in pigs fat just before they leave on patrol, that would truly get their attention.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 4:15:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 4:49:04 AM EST by EdAvilaSr]
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 4:31:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
When I was an adolscent and became angry I kicked furniture and threw things, it doesn't accomplish much and completely going to pieces and losing your temper certainly doesn't accomplish anything, no one ever won a fight by flailing their arms around like 6 year old throwing a tantrum. I'd gladly have joined in gunning those assholes down, but posting about doing it on the internet seems little more than mental masturbation.





Boy, are YOU fighting an uphill battle!!!! That's ALL some here are capable of!!! They ain't been around the block, and prolly never will.

Until GWB address's our open borders, we are vulnerable to the SAME thing as happened in Russia.

Until the true nature of this war is understood, and accepted, this, (School hostages), kind of thing will be with the world.

There really is only one solution.....
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 4:43:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:

Mike,I will ALWAYS fight the aggressors/criminals/murderers etc and defend the innocent, wheteher I have the majority with me, or if I am alone.

To condemn everyone in a group -ANY GROUP- because of the actions of a few (or even a large sub-set of that group) is IMMORAL UN-AMERICAN .

We should be directing our anger at those muslims who are committing terrorist acts,not anyone who happens to be a muslim and has not proffessed to be a terrorist

to answer your question directly,if the mosques are filled with terrorists, I would join to DEMOLISH them,but if they are filled with innocent people who happen to be muslims,I would stand at the door to keep any mob from harming them.I know you don't doubt my resolve,but those who do will see it.....if that time ever comes when we become violent against the innocent out of our frustration and misdirected anger!



AND, that concludes todays lesson....... from one who HAS been around the block.

The killing of innocents is/always has been, MURDER.

AMERICANS DO NOT COMMIT MASS MURDER, IN THE NAME OF RIGHTOUSNESS !!!!!!!!!

Link Posted: 9/4/2004 5:52:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 5:52:34 AM EST by virginia22]

Originally Posted By liberty86:

Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:

Mike,I will ALWAYS fight the aggressors/criminals/murderers etc and defend the innocent, wheteher I have the majority with me, or if I am alone.

To condemn everyone in a group -ANY GROUP- because of the actions of a few (or even a large sub-set of that group) is IMMORAL UN-AMERICAN .

We should be directing our anger at those muslims who are committing terrorist acts,not anyone who happens to be a muslim and has not proffessed to be a terrorist

to answer your question directly,if the mosques are filled with terrorists, I would join to DEMOLISH them,but if they are filled with innocent people who happen to be muslims,I would stand at the door to keep any mob from harming them.I know you don't doubt my resolve,but those who do will see it.....if that time ever comes when we become violent against the innocent out of our frustration and misdirected anger!



AND, that concludes todays lesson....... from one who HAS been around the block.

The killing of innocents is/always has been, MURDER.

AMERICANS DO NOT COMMIT MASS MURDER, IN THE NAME OF RIGHTOUSNESS !!!!!!!!!




Hmmmmm, betcha I could find examples of us backing a regime that did. while we watched.

to name one all our own, right here with the elimination of the indians.


Chris
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 5:56:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By FiftyCalibre:
Yes, ANger is justified, but you are taking it out on the wrong people.

You are taking it out on the muslim people as a while, not the terrorists who do the acts.

Similarly, people take it out on us whenever theres a shootout or massacre.



Well Said...Clarity of mind is always an asset.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 6:00:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By virginia22:

Originally Posted By liberty86:

AMERICANS DO NOT COMMIT MASS MURDER, IN THE NAME OF RIGHTOUSNESS !!!!!!!!!




Hmmmmm, betcha I could find examples of us backing a regime that did. while we watched.

to name one all our own, right here with the elimination of the indians.


Chris



You can find examples of anything, particularly since the US changes governments with periodic regularity. But that would assume you actually had a point.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 6:05:59 AM EST
Ahhh, Rik, my own personal hound.

thanks for the (cough) enlightenment.

Yawn. got anything other than your petty insults?

Chris

Link Posted: 9/4/2004 6:07:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 6:08:30 AM EST by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:
Mike,I will ALWAYS fight the aggressors/criminals/murderers etc and defend the innocent, wheteher I have the majority with me, or if I am alone.

To condemn everyone in a group -ANY GROUP- because of the actions of a few (or even a large sub-set of that group) is IMMORAL AND UN-AMERICAN .

We should be directing our anger at those muslims who are committing terrorist acts,not anyone who happens to be a muslim and has not proffessed to be a terrorist

to answer your question directly,if the mosques are filled with terrorists, I would join to DEMOLISH them,but if they are filled with innocent people who happen to be muslims,I would stand at the door to keep any mob from harming them.I know you don't doubt my resolve,but those who do will see it.....if that time ever comes when we become violent against the innocent out of our frustration and misdirected anger!




WELL SAID !



I am a little concerned that people think that somehow NOT yelling "kill all muslims" means that someone is NOT angry, or is NOT committed to the fight against extremist Islam and the threat it poses to western civilization. The fact that some of us are NOT beating our chests and yelling on the internet does NOT mean we are any less angry, or that we'd have any less resolve to take whatever action might be necessary to defend ourselves and our country against Islamic terrorism. (Let us not allow our different reactions to divide us - because I think the vast majority of us are on the same page)

I imagine there are FEW (if any) on this site that would not happily kill all muslim terrorists and extremists in the world, and I imagine that pretty much anyone on this site would volunteer to put a bullet in the back of the head of Osama BinLaden, or any member of Al Qeada (I know I would).

However - to jump to the conclusion that ALL muslims are part of the problem, or to jump to the very extreme suggestion that ALL muslims should be killed, is as incorrect as it is obscene.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 6:11:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By virginia22:
Ahhh, Rik, my own personal hound.

thanks for the (cough) enlightenment.

Yawn. got anything other than your petty insults?

Chris




Actually hound would be all of our personal hounds. But I find it interesting that you, like the Democrats you lionize, consider any criticism of them to be a personal insult. Accusing you of not having a point is a petty insult in your fantasy world, eh?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 6:14:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By virginia22:
Ahhh, Rik, my own personal hound.

thanks for the (cough) enlightenment.

Yawn. got anything other than your petty insults?

Chris





You don't know Rik's style, do you.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 6:14:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 6:15:11 AM EST by vito113]
Good thing Admiral Halsey did not post his famous comment about Pearl Harbor or he could have been locked for CoC violation…

"When this war is over, the Japanese language will be spoken only in hell."


ANdy

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