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Posted: 9/2/2005 2:44:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 2:33:10 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
Why Weren't All These Buses Used By New Orleans To Evacuate The City???

I asked this question days ago when I first saw the pictures and now it's finally on Drudge. (I think he heard me)


WHY DIDN'T YOU DEPLOY THE BUSES DURING THE MANDATORY EVACUATION, MAYOR?...


EDITED TO ADD:

Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00

'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...


Link Posted: 9/2/2005 2:45:50 PM EDT
Because that makes too much sense, and it it much easier for a MAYOR TO TRY TO DECLARE MARTIAL LAW.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 2:49:23 PM EDT
I thought you were going ask why all the buses haven't been "up-armored". Strange where my thoughts are these days.


What a waste of resources.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 2:50:59 PM EDT
I counted 206 busses in the picture, capacity 66=13,596 passengers
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 2:51:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 2:52:22 PM EDT by Paul]
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 2:52:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By postpostban:
I counted 206 busses in the picture, capacity 66=13,596 passengers



Would not have done shit. there are 100,000 in Houston right now.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 2:52:33 PM EDT
Because Bush and his Oil cronies made it too expensive to fuel them.

help! Help! I'm being repressed!

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 2:52:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 2:52:47 PM EDT
Quit trying to divert the blame away from Bush!
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 2:53:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
I counted 206 busses in the picture, capacity 66=13,596 passengers



Would not have done shit. there are 100,000 in Houston right now.



13,596 people are not 'shit'. That's fewer victims, fewer looters, fewer headaches, fewer troubles all around.

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 2:55:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 2:56:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
I counted 206 busses in the picture, capacity 66=13,596 passengers



Would not have done shit. there are 100,000 in Houston right now.





How many school buses total in all the school districts in NO? How many were used for evacuation?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 2:58:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Noname:

Originally Posted By FredM:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
I counted 206 busses in the picture, capacity 66=13,596 passengers



Would not have done shit. there are 100,000 in Houston right now.





How many school buses total in all the school districts in NO? How many were used for evacuation?




There was no .gov sponsored evac. I think that was a fuckup. Alot easier to get people out when the city was dry.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:01:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By postpostban:
I counted 206 busses in the picture, capacity 66=13,596 passengers



They could have shuttled people to the trainyard. There is a railroad running through New Orelans, inst there? There MUST be. Put 'em in boxcars.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:02:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:



There was no .gov sponsored evac. I think that was a fuckup. Alot easier to get people out when the city was dry.





And that is exactly the point...!
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:03:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By postpostban:
I counted 206 busses in the picture, capacity 66=13,596 passengers



You obviously have no experience with mass transit.





Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:04:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
I counted 206 busses in the picture, capacity 66=13,596 passengers



Would not have done shit. there are 100,000 in Houston right now.


Yeah you're right - it's better that 13,000 people sit in the human cesspool-Superdome for five days.

Let 100s of mass people-movers just sit there and become junk.




Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:07:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
...
Let 100s of mass people-movers just sit there and become junk.




Yes, it makes no sense to me that those resources went unused.

But you need a plan in place in advance of the disaster for something like that to happen.

The question boils down to who is responsible for the people who are too poor or disabled or too dumb to care for themselves. It's better in every way to get them out before the storm hits than after. We're all going to end up paying for it one way or another.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:08:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
Dupe.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=385776

... from Druge's front page?

Yeah but I actually thought of it first.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:32:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
I counted 206 busses in the picture, capacity 66=13,596 passengers



They could have shuttled people to the trainyard. There is a railroad running through New Orelans, inst there? There MUST be. Put 'em in boxcars.




sick me, but that reminds me of a post I was going to make.

There was a story on public radio a while back ... they had a guy reporting from china about how the chinese government is seeing the rural people as a drag on their country. The reporter said something about the government ending the tax on produced rice for the first time in ages, even giving a refund, then he ended his story with something like this (said in a prett obviosly sarcastic voice):

... but that doesn't appear to be the final solution to the farmer problem that the chinese government is looking for.


The goverment

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:47:15 PM EDT
From what I can tell the use of public, private, and school buses in emergency situations isn't something that the various organizations have planned for.

The state level emergency programs should have ways to communicate with the various bus companies and put them to work in emergencies for evacuation, mobile ambulances, mobile command centers, road blocks etc etc.

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:55:09 PM EDT
U can see those buses in that huge Sat. photo near the water. Well I guess all the drivers left town .
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:00:25 PM EDT
Probably because you need a plan, and 200 drivers who are available, (and not in some fucking union that prohibits them from working in the rain on any day ending in "y").

Oh, and buses with motors that aren't submerged in 4 feet of water.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:01:07 PM EDT
Funny thing is..

If the mayor of NO would have spent some time here, he would have plenty of time, and plenty of people to come up with a perfest SHTF response.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:02:41 PM EDT

I recall that when we planned a cross-state trip, the district had to make prior arrangements to find places to refill with propane or LNG (whichever the busses used). I don't know what kind of range the busses might have had with a mostly-full tank without refilling.

Of course chances are that they didn't even consider the option.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:02:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:03:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
mutiple trips over 5 days would be a lot more than that

13000 per trip x 2 trips per day... 26000

26000 times 3days conservatively ... 78000

potentially 70,000+ could have been evactued just with those buses. not to mention the ones that are not in that picture.



See what I mean
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:10:31 PM EDT
I am not arguing with you, I agree. I'm just trying to explain why those buses were not used. In the feeble mind of local.gov, the buses were not used because local.gov had no idea where to take the evacuees to. That ASSUMES they had drivers willing to leave NO with a load of evacuees on what would have been perceived as a one way trip. FWIW
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:27:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
It's not like the buses could make two trips to a location 100 miles away from the city ... or four trips to a location fifty miles away.



Excellent point lets do the math here.

36 hours per SHTF notification of evacuation time table.

Bus capacity per fleet of 13,596 per trip of 100 miles times 3 hours per trip one way, which would allow 30 minutes to board and dismount.

So we have 2 hours to return at 50 miles per hour, total round trip time is 5 hours.

We can only turn 5 transports in 36 hours to include refueling time of one hour so we could have a potential transport of 67,980 less stranded in New Orleans.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:44:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:

Originally Posted By FredM:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
I counted 206 busses in the picture, capacity 66=13,596 passengers



Would not have done shit. there are 100,000 in Houston right now.



13,596 people are not 'shit'. That's fewer victims, fewer looters, fewer headaches, fewer troubles all around.




Yeah! We could put all the looters on the busses, weld the chain link over the thing and leave it right where it is.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:53:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
I counted 206 busses in the picture, capacity 66=13,596 passengers



Would not have done shit. there are 100,000 in Houston right now.

okay. 100,000 in Houston right now, that means they made it out already. How many are in NO? I am guessing maybe around 30K (while I could be way off, it is just a guess). That means that the number of people left there would be about 1/2 which means that the rapes and murders would have been significantly reduced. Even if there are way more in NO, it still would have made a difference
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:18:07 PM EDT
I was thinking about this just today on the way to work.

Outside of the FEMA program, Homeland Security needs to organize a network of cities for disaster relief management.

Cities sign up and recieve mutual aid from each other in situations like this.

Within a 10 hour drive, 500 miles you have a number of cities. Gulfport, Mobile, Tallahasse, Galveston, Houston and Corpus Christie, etc.

When an area is under an evacuation order, the mutual aid kicks in.

The city busses first, then the school busses, do regular bus routes taking people who want out. When the bus fills, it heads for a predetermined destination. The surrounding cities send their busses to the area and are given routes to keep picking up the people until an abandon order is given.

I am no Emergency manager, nor organizational guru, but this seems like a plan that would work. People would get left behind, but nowhere near the numbers we have seen here.

Oh yeah, the Mayor needs to have his ass whipped for running a city that lies multiple feet under water, surrounded by water, with no evacuation plan whatsoever. And his predecessors as well. They were all failures.



Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:22:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
I counted 206 busses in the picture, capacity 66=13,596 passengers



They could have shuttled people to the trainyard. There is a railroad running through New Orelans, inst there? There MUST be. Put 'em in boxcars.



and you think there are cries of racism now?
shoe horn a bunch of poor blacks into boxcars and they'd really be bitching
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:26:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:43:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sharky30:

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
I counted 206 busses in the picture, capacity 66=13,596 passengers



They could have shuttled people to the trainyard. There is a railroad running through New Orelans, inst there? There MUST be. Put 'em in boxcars.



and you think there are cries of racism now?
shoe horn a bunch of poor blacks into boxcars and they'd really be bitching



I admit I winced when I read it.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:50:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
I counted 206 busses in the picture, capacity 66=13,596 passengers



Would not have done shit. there are 100,000 in Houston right now.

Don't suppose multiple trips even 50 miles farther inland would have at least helped do you? Kids weren't in school so there were plenty of drivers to be used.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:01:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
It's not like the buses could make two trips to a location 100 miles away from the city ... or four trips to a location fifty miles away.



+1 Go west or north-west out of the immediate effects of the hurricane, then return to do it again. Short sightedness of the mayor's part and his staff (but then it's easier to blame Big Brother for not doing your job).
Then again, one has to have the will or common sense to evacuate from a Cat 5 storm when you're told it's a mandatory evacuation.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:05:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By sharky30:

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By postpostban:
I counted 206 busses in the picture, capacity 66=13,596 passengers



They could have shuttled people to the trainyard. There is a railroad running through New Orelans, inst there? There MUST be. Put 'em in boxcars.



and you think there are cries of racism now?
shoe horn a bunch of poor blacks into boxcars and they'd really be bitching



I admit I winced when I read it.



We're not trying to pull an Auschwitz, we're trying to save their lives. If they want to stay at Chez Superdome, be my guest.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:07:23 PM EDT
The Mayor is a Jack ASS!
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:10:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By postpostban:
I counted 206 busses in the picture, capacity 66=13,596 passengers



What in the hell are you talking about?
I counted those buses twice and I only counted 203.

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:10:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
We're not trying to pull an Auschwitz, we're trying to save their lives. If they want to stay at Chez Superdome, be my guest.




I know, and I know you dont look a gift horse in the mouth.......but........ I still kinda winced at boxcars.


I am the type who (who would never live in hurricane alley!) would have probably either been out, or bugged out during/after, on my own regardless.

Cattlecars and boxcars seem to be verbotten since WWII in my mind.


And the Superdome would for sure be out. Searched and unarmed prior to going inside?

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:12:56 PM EDT
So who thinks the Mayor is going to be re elected?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:13:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
So who thinks the Mayor is going to be re elected?




They are gonna the elections where? Houston?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:25:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 6:30:20 PM EDT by _DR]
The fact is the City of New Orleans had no workable plan and did nothing.
The State of Louisiana had no workable plan and did nothing.

So, of course, they both blame the Federal Government who had a plan, but of course it was not fast enough for the City gov't and State gov't who had no plan of their own to take care of their own citizens.

Makes perfect sense for a state that is more like Somalia than a part of the United States.


Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:34:07 PM EDT
Fox just did a piece on a teen(?) that stole one of those buses from the yard and did his own evac trip. He ended up picking up 80 people and took them to Houston. They even pooled what money everyone had to buy fuel. Kid said he had never drove a bus and barely knows how to drive. He just thought he had to do something to save whoever he could.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:36:52 PM EDT
I would say poor planning, but there was NO planning. I rate that mayor right up there with the FEMA director.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:38:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
So who thinks the Mayor is going to be re elected?



He would probably have a helluva political future here................
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:48:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jerry48430:
Fox just did a piece on a teen(?) that stole one of those buses from the yard and did his own evac trip. He ended up picking up 80 people and took them to Houston. They even pooled what money everyone had to buy fuel. Kid said he had never drove a bus and barely knows how to drive. He just thought he had to do something to save whoever he could.



at least SOMEONE was thinking
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:02:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
So who thinks the Mayor is going to be re elected?



SILLY SteyrAUG!

They could hold the elections tomorrow and he would get 754,639 Democratic votes to win a dramatic landslide election that would reaffirm his positive roll in handling the Hurricane Katrina crisis.

wganz

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:12:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
So who thinks the Mayor is going to be re elected?


Two words to remember:

Marion Barry.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:14:18 PM EDT
Read this thread & the links and you'll know why.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=385914
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