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Posted: 4/23/2013 6:04:24 PM EDT
Very good read. Thanks for sharing.
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Posted: 4/23/2013 6:11:15 PM EDT
Wonder why he ditched the 45 platform in favor of 9mm after it took 33 rounds of 45 to drop the perp??
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Posted: 4/23/2013 6:19:36 PM EDT
Quoted:
Wonder why he ditched the 45 platform in favor of 9mm after it took 33 rounds of 45 to drop the perp??
because its shot placement to cal
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Posted: 4/23/2013 6:21:01 PM EDT
if i had to chose between a Glock 21 w/ 13-Round mags and a Glock 17 with 17-Round mags I'll take the Glock 17 every time.
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Posted: 4/23/2013 6:28:45 PM EDT
Quoted:
Wonder why he ditched the 45 platform in favor of 9mm after it took 33 rounds of 45 to drop the perp??
Probably did not have a choice in the matter. |
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Posted: 4/23/2013 6:38:23 PM EDT
Quoted:
if i had to chose between a Glock 21 w/ 13-Round mags and a Glock 17 with 17-Round mags I'll take the Glock 17 every time. Mmmm no cause thats only four bullets which have less stopping power. Youd think a cop that had to dump 33 bullets into a perp would be leery about going with a round that has less stopping power....but he is now carrying 33 round mags for "backup" so it looks like the cops new firefight strategy will consist of complete spray an pray magazine dumps. |
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Posted: 4/23/2013 6:40:44 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
if i had to chose between a Glock 21 w/ 13-Round mags and a Glock 17 with 17-Round mags I'll take the Glock 17 every time. Mmmm no cause thats only four bullets which have less stopping power. Youd think a cop that had to dump 33 bullets into a perp would be leery about going with a round that has less stopping power....but he is now carrying 33 round mags for "backup" so it looks like the cops new firefight strategy will consist of complete spray an pray magazine dumps. Stopping power is a myth. There is no practical difference in performance in 9mm, 40SW, .357Sig or .45ACP when using best in caliber modern JHP ammo. Use the handgun you can shoot the fastest, most accurately and with the highest capacity. From the FAQ 
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Posted: 4/23/2013 6:51:10 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
if i had to chose between a Glock 21 w/ 13-Round mags and a Glock 17 with 17-Round mags I'll take the Glock 17 every time. Mmmm no cause thats only four bullets which have less stopping power. Youd think a cop that had to dump 33 bullets into a perp would be leery about going with a round that has less stopping power....but he is now carrying 33 round mags for "backup" so it looks like the cops new firefight strategy will consist of complete spray an pray magazine dumps. Stopping power is a myth. There is no practical difference in performance in 9mm, 40SW, .357Sig or .45ACP when using best in caliber modern JHP ammo. Use the handgun you can shoot the fastest, most accurately and with the highest capacity. Interesting, I actually bought my first Glock last week....a Glock 17. The purchase was a direct result of the black rifle disease byproduct  And I have been eyeballing a second one in 45 cal....maybe I should just get another 17
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Posted: 4/23/2013 6:53:42 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
if i had to chose between a Glock 21 w/ 13-Round mags and a Glock 17 with 17-Round mags I'll take the Glock 17 every time. Mmmm no cause thats only four bullets which have less stopping power. Youd think a cop that had to dump 33 bullets into a perp would be leery about going with a round that has less stopping power....but he is now carrying 33 round mags for "backup" so it looks like the cops new firefight strategy will consist of complete spray an pray magazine dumps. Stopping power is a myth. There is no practical difference in performance in 9mm, 40SW, .357Sig or .45ACP when using best in caliber modern JHP ammo. Use the handgun you can shoot the fastest, most accurately and with the highest capacity. I agree that choosing the gun you can shoot best and shot placement mean much more than which caliber. But I seem to be in the minority around here. Then again, I have a 7 shot .38 special loaded with +P ammo for my go to hand gun and I don't feel under gunned at all. So go figure. |
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Posted: 4/23/2013 6:58:58 PM EDT
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if i had to chose between a Glock 21 w/ 13-Round mags and a Glock 17 with 17-Round mags I'll take the Glock 17 every time. Same. Couple 22 rnd back mags in oh shit gear to swap out for duty mags if it comes down to it. Standard issue and approved for uniform carry are the standard g23/g22 mags. But there is latitude in the active shooter oh shit bag. 2 more mags and i gain myself nearly an entire extra box of ammo. |
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Posted: 4/23/2013 7:03:44 PM EDT
Wow. I guess I'm screwed CCW wise.
I'm glad the cop made it out of that! |
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Posted: 4/24/2013 1:34:57 AM EDT
I would have went off on that doctor, asking why he had to shoot so many times. Glad the good guy won.
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Posted: 4/24/2013 2:11:33 AM EDT
Quoted: Stopping power is a myth. There is no practical difference in performance in 9mm, 40SW, .357Sig or .45ACP when using best in caliber modern JHP ammo. Use the handgun you can shoot the fastest, most accurately and with the highest capacity. From the FAQ http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Images/DocGKR/Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg Common misperception. Modern rounds are designed to penetrate equally, but the .45 remains a larger round. A near miss of a vital organ with a 9mm can be a hit with a standard .45 ACP. In addition, hot +p or .45 super loads outclass 9mm completely. I'm not saying the 9mm is inadequate for carry, but why settle? As to your second point, I agree. However, there is no reason a healthy adult male shouldn't be able to handle a .45 caliber pistol. |
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Posted: 4/24/2013 3:30:07 AM EDT
We could talk about ammo choices all day....in the end I bet it was a Dept. decision. That said, my car is apparently a rolling ammo store; we set up all supervisor/command vehicles as resupply points. There's every bit of 1,500 + rounds there
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Posted: 4/24/2013 5:29:49 AM EDT
im guessing he wanted the same ammo/mags for his 17 and 26
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Posted: 4/24/2013 5:34:02 AM EDT
The officer involved is a member here, this story was posted a while back in a different section. Follow the link to the topic
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_13/127082_Glock_21_Saves_Officers_Life__17_hits_with__45.html |
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Posted: 4/24/2013 7:13:43 AM EDT
Quoted:
The officer involved is a member here, this story was posted a while back in a different section. Follow the link to the topic http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_13/127082_Glock_21_Saves_Officers_Life__17_hits_with__45.html He is indeed. We have a few LE members here that have been in well publicized gunfights and one member that was shot and killed in the line of duty. |
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Posted: 4/24/2013 7:28:33 AM EDT
It holds true - you do not know how many bullets you will need untill the gunfight is over!
Thanks, for shareing OP Red 
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Posted: 4/24/2013 7:32:16 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Stopping power is a myth. There is no practical difference in performance in 9mm, 40SW, .357Sig or .45ACP when using best in caliber modern JHP ammo. Use the handgun you can shoot the fastest, most accurately and with the highest capacity. From the FAQ http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Images/DocGKR/Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg Common misperception. Modern rounds are designed to penetrate equally, but the .45 remains a larger round. A near miss of a vital organ with a 9mm can be a hit with a standard .45 ACP. In addition, hot +p or .45 super loads outclass 9mm completely. I'm not saying the 9mm is inadequate for carry, but why settle? As to your second point, I agree. However, there is no reason a healthy adult male shouldn't be able to handle a .45 caliber pistol. Because its been proven to not matter in the lab and the field |
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Posted: 4/24/2013 8:15:16 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
if i had to chose between a Glock 21 w/ 13-Round mags and a Glock 17 with 17-Round mags I'll take the Glock 17 every time. Mmmm no cause thats only four bullets which have less stopping power. Youd think a cop that had to dump 33 bullets into a perp would be leery about going with a round that has less stopping power....but he is now carrying 33 round mags for "backup" so it looks like the cops new firefight strategy will consist of complete spray an pray magazine dumps. The guy was getting great hits, he was far from what we pecieve as normal performance in a cop shooting. It has long seemed crazy to me when the guys at the gunclub start talking about cops shooting badly , except for a couple who were in the shit in Vietnam none have ever shot a gun on a two way range. I like the big holes myself but most studys show 9mm about as effective as 45 . Pistols are pistols and in a fight unless you get lucky early on the winner is the guy who launches the most well aimed shots at the other guy. Can't launch shots when you are reloading. When I read about the cop in this story I am suspecting those 33 rd 9mm mags that he has for a reload are a big reason for the 9mm. Am I right in thinking the are not extended mags available for the 45acp Glock? |
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Posted: 4/24/2013 8:19:43 AM EDT
at least its 90 in them STANDARD mags
heck 70 or 53 hand gun rounds id not UN-common for mee |
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Posted: 4/24/2013 8:25:11 AM EDT
The doctor says "why'd that cop have to shoot him so many times'
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Posted: 4/24/2013 8:45:49 AM EDT
I never got into a firefight while working LE, but I carried a G21 most of my time there. I always had more magazines available to me, like 5 more than my duty load, but not allowed to carry on my person by policy.
As soon as the FNP45 came out, I bought one of those. Two extra rounds can mean life or death. Now as a "civilian" I still look over my shoulder for the suspects I came into contact with during my career, lots of them cartel or gang members and carry a full load of 46 rounds on me and more in a pack in the car. I also mounted a gun lock and Rem 870 in the car. I do still run into former "clients" every now and then, sometimes at the gun shows I work. I'm still a big fan of the .45 even though I've carried a 9 and 40 over the years.
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Posted: 4/24/2013 11:31:52 AM EDT
Wow! Talk about fine shooting while playing for keeps... that is some incredible work.
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Posted: 4/24/2013 11:35:27 AM EDT
Wondering why he didn't just shoot into the air with his shotgun?
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Posted: 4/24/2013 11:48:09 AM EDT
Just to mention this, but a while back I taught an in service at my station for gun shot wounds, I averaged out the vast majority of major calibres of ammunition from .22 all the way up to the much loved .50 (didn't know about the Anzio at the time, would have been interesting). On average there is only about 33ft/lbs difference in a .45 ~368ft/lbs to a 9mm ~335ft/lbs. That is about a 10% difference. Consider the glock 37 holds 10 rounds standard a g17 holds 17 standard. That is a potential for 3680ft/lbs out of one mag of .45acp vs 5695ft/lbs out of a single mag of 9mm. Even when you go highest to lowest potentials out of readily available practical ammo it would still be a large differential. I am by no means saying a 9 is better than a .45, just putting actual numbers out there. Add in cost to practice with what you fight with and I can see the logic of why people downsize calibre. 55g 5.56 is at 1700ft/lbs + if I recall correctly btw.
Edit for my lack of typing ability today. |
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Posted: 4/25/2013 12:23:30 PM EDT
I just tallied up the basic load out of rounds I carry on me, in my long guns, on my plate carrier and in the trunk bag.
294. That doesn't count birdshot for critters or the occasional extra box of ammo that goes into the trunk bag at quals to get me through top-offs after deer kills At my part time agency that total is augmented by another 10 30 rd mags split between a go bag the agency keeps in the car and the rifle bag for the personal rifle I carry there I don't understand why people wont carry more ammo, especially those in rural agencies where back-up is a looonnggg ways off when you need it. Duty ammo might be expensive...but my life is worth it |
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Posted: 4/25/2013 1:34:28 PM EDT
I just did a quick count of the .223 rounds in my squad.
16 30rd P-mags and one 20rd P-mag 6-30's in my BOB 6-30's in my tac vest 1-30 in each front driver/passenger door 1-30 tucked in to the light on the ceiling 1-30 in my 10.5 SBR 1-20 on my duty belt That's 500 by my count. I also carry a 1911 as a duty gun. There are 12 10rd single stack mags between my tac vest, BOB and duty belt. |
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Posted: 4/25/2013 2:16:05 PM EDT
I have gotten into many an argument with people thinking one round will do the job, and a 45 beats a 9mm every time all the time.
nomatter what I throw at these arguments for facts I find myself butting heads with the most stubborn individuals I have ever met. I will say though that even I would have figured 14 rounds of 45 would have taken the starch out of any combatant. This cop was a lucky man, it must have been chilling to realize he had only 4 rounds left, and the bloody robber was still showing life signs! |
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