Sorry SWEEP, I'm not trying to steal your thread.(and I'm glad you brought up the subject) But I want to share some Historical facts for you guys and gals.


During the early morning hours on May 15, 1948 the Arabs attacked the New Nation of Israel with a combined force Army of approx. 650,000 men. British Mercenary Officers led some Arab armies which were armed with the most modern weapons and aircraft of that time. Now, on the other hand, the Jews had only 45,000 troops of which most were Haganah or other Guerrilla fighters. Under the British Mandate, prior to their pulling back to England, the British made it a crime punishable by Death for a Jew to carry a firearm in any part of Palestine. However, the Arabs were allowed to carry weapons openly.(sound familiar) As a result of British Anti-Semitism, the new Jewish army had little of which to defend itself.

A few Jews from outside the country flew in on a wing and a prayer with obsolete German WWII fighter aircraft purchased from Czechoslovkia. With these planes the pilots cleared the skies of enemy aircraft and turned back an Egptian Armored Corp in the southern Gaza Strip.

At the beginning, it looked hopeless for the outnumbered and outgunned Jews. However, the land of Israel became the land of the Jews through the Benevolent Love and protection of Almighty God. A restored land of Israel, homeland to the Jewish people is the key element in God's plan. God wants the world to know that His promises are not Legends in an Old Book, but that He will do all He has said He will do. Taking heed of the words of the Prophet Isaiah in Chapter 46,Verses 8-10, we see where the Lord states "...I Am God, there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the Beginning and from Ancient times which have not been done, saying, My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My Good Pleasure..."

By their very survival, the Jews prove that God is Exactly Who He says He is, and He will do all His Pleasure. In Israel's short 50yr history they have fought 5 wars: The War of Independence, The Sinai Wars, The 1956 Suez Crisis, The 6-day War and the Yom Kippur War. Israel still stands and has Territory God had Promised to "Abraham's Seed Forever."

That is Why Israel exists and Why they will continue to exist. History has proven it.

Ok I'm out of wind,Later...

Thanks M1A-A1 [beer] excellent post!!![0j]

I could not have said it better. I really enjoyed your comments.

Well put M1A, that says alot as to why they are such fierce fighters. I wish more Americans had the level of patriotism that the Israelis show.
[flag]

Thank you Gentlemen, but History stands on it's own Two Legs which we cannot dispute.

I better stop at that before I get long winded again [:I]

Well said and very accurately stated I might add.

God will protect his chosen people.  They may not have accepted the Messiah but they are still and always will be the chosen ones.

No harm will come to Israel and only Gods wrath will come to those who oppose her.

My first reaction and thought to the Topic title was, "Because God says it can...", and apparently you already said that!
Deep down, we know God is real.  Just keep watching the story unfold.  Cool, huh?

[b]PRECISELY[/B]

Excellent point!!!

Thank You Sir.

We see eye to eye on this.

Best the US stay on her good side huh M1A-A1?

Yes,indeed.
But we have to pray and stay active by letting [b]OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS[/B] aware of the facts.

I think President Bush must some how understand this. At least I pray he does!!!

Agreed...........I think GW understands and prayer is the only thing that will alter things.

Very NICE post, enjoyed reading it. Thanks, M1A-A1!

Very well explained.  Thank you.

marsh

Yes God protected his chosen people.
[img]http://www.fmv.ulg.ac.be/schmitz/Holocaust/orieg2.gif[/img]

What part of [b]Never Again[/b] do you not understand?[>]:)]

Thanks Hunny, err Hun.

[b]IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE. PERIOD.[/b]


[b]"LET IT BE WRITTEN, LET IT BE DONE"[/b]

[size=2]
Israel exists still to this day solely because We, The United States of America, want it to
[b]PERIOD!
[/b][/size=2]

Yeah your right, now its the turn of the Jews to make some atrocities against a people.

[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/950000/video/_952600_shooting2_vi.ram[/url]

[url]http://mut1.muscanet.com/~ampal/photo.htm[/url]

[b]WRONG[/b], but if thats how you see it,Fine.

The end result will not change.[b]PERIOD[/b]

[b]GOD BLESS AMERICA [/b] Happens solely Because WE support Israel!!!

Therefore WE are a BLESSED NATION!!!

Are the Palestinians and their supporters STILL trying to use 12 year old Mohammad al-Dura a martyr for THEIR cause?

It appears that the child was killed by fire from the Palestinian side, not the Israelis.
As a matter of fact the fatal shots were fired from a position very near the cameraman who shot (pardon the pun) the scene!

See WorldNetDaily.com's story at [url]http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=18774[/url]

Eric The(THEYWouldn'tDoThatNowWouldThey?)Hun[>]:)]

Thank you Sir,

You are a good sport indeed.

I tip my hat to you for bringing up this subject. And to think both threads are still active and none are LOCKED.
You see we can indeed discuss subjects near and dear to us and still be civil [beer] to all for joining in and a special [beer] & [smoke] to the SWEEP MEISTER!!!

Who killed
Mohammed al-Dura?
12-year-old Palestinian boy likely 'martyred' by his own people, [b]say Israeli investigators[/b]

Even the Nazi's in WW2 blamed attrocities that happend during the war on other people, until either the UN looks into the subject or any impartial group the web page you posted is Null and Void.

Lets face some facts.
My wife and two sons mean very much to me. Therefore I'm uninhibited about my feelings towards the innocence of the young and frail. To hear a baby cry stirs my emotions, that I cannot control myself as I would want to KILL that  which would cause that child to cry.

Yet, I find myself just able to understand that children will indeed cry.


But, by the Grace of God I maintain a resemblence of restraint and consider my surroundings and thank all of those that I meet such as here on this board, we are indeed brothers and sisters each and every one of us...

Vote for Joe Lieberman, member of the Jewish World Congress

[b]Please![/b]
Does anyone doubt that if we took our support away from Israel it would loose half of it's land in short order.
They would either give it up in hopes of brokering a peace or loose it in a long protracted war.
Their one savior may be the nuclear weaponry edge they have.
But that edge won't last forever [b]PERIOD![/b]

Your joke is not funny...[b]PERIOD[/b]

Oh, I get it now...[b]whatever[/b]

You read, yet you do not understand...tsk,tsk!!!

OK my [b]period[/b] is becoming annoyiny ,However you just said it "they are Nuclear" and God saith when!!!

Actually I DO understand. I understand the fact that too many American Jews consider themselves the sons of Israel and will support that country at the expense of ours.

I understand that too many American Jews pioneered social integration in this country while keeping "their" race pure and segregated in Israel.

I understand that too many American Jews are calling for total arms control(read: bans) in this country while maintaining a citizen army in Israel.

I understand that too many American Jews are attacking Relidion(except Judaism of course) in this country while maintaing a STATE RELIGION in Israel.

I understand that too many American Jews support substandard public schools systems, flawed politics, a laughable justice system and further erosion of Constitutional rights and protections while at the same time doing things in a very different manner where Israel is concerned.

I am of German decent, but my Grandfather bombed the hell out of the Fatherland in WW2. I take NO undue interest in Germany politically or feel any allegiance to that country. I am an American. But too many Jewish Americans are in reality "sons of Israel."

[b]Whoa...[/b]
hold on a sec there partner, it seems to me that many a American Jews are not religious at all.

Yes, steyrAUG, American Jews at times do act in ways that frustrate the crap outta me, and, yes, sometimes they do prefer Israel's interest over the interest of the United States, but that is not an [u]Israeli[/u] deficiency now, is it?

If all Americans had their 'poop in a group' we wouldn't even begin to be worried about our RKBA or any of our other freedoms, so even we Gentile, native Americans, leave a lot to be desired in the patriotism category.

And I, too, am of German descent, and, while my Father fought the Japs (whoops!) in the South Pacific, his uncles fought in Europe on the ground against kinfolks that were only two or three generations removed.  Even so, while I don't want the German people to be constantly reminded of their Nazi past, I must insist that they not be permitted to forget it either!

Nor the Japanese of theirs! BTW, has Japan ever officially apologized for their war crimes and, most particularly, of their 'Rape of Nanking', for the 'comfort women' of Korea, forced into Japanese Imperial Army brothels, and for a vast number of other atrocities?

After insisting that the American serviceman be turned over to face Japanese civilian charges for the alleged rape in Okinawa, I would think that Japan should be extremely sensitive on this particular subject.

And as far as the Israelis are concerned, as the only democracy in the entire Middle East, I kinda give them benefit of any doubt.  

Eric The(ForgiveThemForTheyKnowNotWhatTheyDo)Hun[>]:)]

xxxxxxxxxWARNINGXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Bible verses follow.....






For the Lord will mercy
on Jacob, and will still [b]choose[/b]
Israel, and settle them in their own
land. The strangers will be joined
with them, and they will clean to the
house of Jacob.
Then people will take them and
bring them to their place, and the
house of Israel will possess them for
servants and maids in the land of the
Lord; they will take them captive
whose captives they were, and rule
over their oppressors.

Where in the bible does it have the part where they will lose millions and familly's will be torn apart?

God I wish some of you were literate, I said "too many American Jews" not ALL AMERICAN JEWS.

I ain't gonna nail Jewbroni to the cross for the acts of Howard Metzenbaum.

And to EVERYONE ELSE. Let the people of Israel support their country and WE should do the same. PLEASE STOP SENDING MONEY TO ISRAEL! We piss and moan when we send cash ot Ethiopia, China or some other country that doesn't do sqaut for us.....but no Israels Okie dokie....THEY'RE IN THE BIBLE.....Well then seems to me GOD is gonna look out for them, huh? So why do you think we should send money? I mean are we supposing to do MORE THAN GOD CAN?

And since I'm going nuts about this, WHY DO WE CALL THEM AN ALLY? If Russia ever attacked us what the hell would Israel do about it? NOTHING! When we have economic troubles, what does Israel do about it? NOTHING! Hey I see a pattern. Furthermore, we picked the ONE AND ONLY NON OIL PRODUCING COUNTRY IN THE REGION TO ALLY WITH. And of course the OPEC nations hate them like poison, wann know why gas costs so much? Why didn't we choose Jordan instead of Israel? Gas would be .50 cents a gallon. THEY ARE NOT HELPING US! If we weren't backing them up CRAZY FRICKIN ARABS wouldn't be blowing up shit in the US.

ISRAEL IS NOT OUR ALLY. We only have ONE real ally and that is England. If we went to war tommarow with someone, ENGLAND  would be the only guy who shows up to help. So if you want to send money someplace, send it to ENGLAND.


DAMN!

If God meant for the jews to have that land then so many people wouldnt have to have died and keep dying for it. If your going to say God wanted the jews to have that land then your also going to have to say God wanted all those jews to die in the concentration camps and that he wants people to resort to violence for a piece of land that is no different then any other piece of land other then by the name given to it and the beleifs reflected onto it.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXwARNINGxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Thus says the Lord,
The Redeemer of Israel,
 their Holy One,
To Him whom man despises,
To Him whom the nations abhors,
To the Servant of rulers:
"Kings shall see and arise,
Princes also shall worship,
Because of the Lord who is
 faithful,
The Holy One of Israel;
And he has [b]chosen[/b] You."





"I am zealous for Jerusalem
And for Zion with great zeal.
I am exceedingly angry with the
nations at ease;
For I was a little angry,
And they helped-but with evil
intent."
"My cities shall again spread out
through prosperity;
The Lord will again comfort
 Zion,
And will again [b]choose[/b]
 Jerusalem."'"

I got an idea...why don't YOU say something. If I wanted the Bibles opinion I could look it up. Why don't you read(carefully this time)what I wrote and answer ANY DAMN PART OF IT.

Actually I DO understand. I understand the fact that too many American Jews consider themselves the sons of Israel and will support that country at the expense of ours.
--I have no problem with that.

I understand that too many American Jews pioneered social integration in this country while keeping "their" race pure and segregated in Israel.
--Im of Mexican decent. I'm glad we have social integration otherwise I wouldn't be welcomed at the southern california webshooters shoot/meets.
Hey I like the fact that we can all shoot together whites,blacks, asians, hispanics. America rocks.

I understand that too many American Jews are calling for total arms control(read: bans) in this country while maintaining a citizen army in Israel.
--bad, bad Jews. I'm with you on this one. JFPO needs to reach out to more of its brethren I guess.


I understand that too many American Jews are attacking Relidion(except Judaism of course) in this country while maintaing a STATE RELIGION in Israel.
--Again I'm with you on this one. bad,bad Jews.


I understand that too many American Jews support substandard public schools systems, flawed politics, a laughable justice system and further erosion of Constitutional rights and protections while at the same time doing things in a very different manner where Israel is concerned.
---hey bro it's not just Jews though..it's lots of Americans of every color and race. People like mine and your relatives possibly who disagree with us in our views.


I am of German decent, but my Grandfather bombed the hell out of the Fatherland in WW2. I take NO undue interest in Germany politically or feel any allegiance to that country. I am an American. But too many Jewish Americans are in reality "sons of Israel."[/quote]
--I'm a zionist remember. Mauser88 already pointed that out. Death to Fire Controlman!

I heard a sermon a couple of weeks ago where it was mentioned that looking at Revelation and Daniel you see a lot of activity in the middle east (i.e. Israel) but you don't see anything to represent the US.  The speaker speculated that the US was part of the 1/3 of the earth destoyed in revelation, and is not even around for the final battles as it doesn't have a big role to play.  Kind of gives you pause to think.

That's one of the most stupid comments I have ever read. Why? Because they are [b]either[/b] American Jews [b]or[/b] they're Israelis. They can't be both unless they are first generation Americans (meaning they were born in Israel and then moved here.) Most American Jews have their roots in Europe, not in Israel.
It's like saying that all American Christians support what happened in Srebrenica where Serb Christians slaughtered innocent women and children. By your reasoning that must be true since they are both of the same religion - Christians.
By saying that two separate groups are identical just because they share religios beliefs is stupid. With your broad generalisations you're starting to sound like the guys wearing brown in Germany back in the '30s

Read my previous comment, then read it again, and maybe again for good measures.


And to spell it out again - they are two separate groups. Group A: [b]some[/b] Jews in America; group B: some Jews in Israel.


So they (American Jews) are doing this just because they are Jews, is that what you are trying to say? So what is the excuse for the rest of the Americans that don't speak up? If they're not Jewish then what's wrong with them?

I was brought up as a Protestant Lutheran, in case you want to start slander some other religion for doing things you don't like, such as disagreeing with you.

Finaly, the truth. The Jews have been parroting the line "Never Again" for so long,I thought they realy meant it. I thought they would pull out the stops to ensure genocide would be a thing of the past. That is,until the genocide in Bosnia and Rowanda was exposed and there was nary a mention of it in the press. no outcry in the Jewish community. Why ? Because Gods "Chosen People" weren't the victims. Your post makes perfect sense now. If only the Jewish leaders would tell the truth like you do. they couldn't give a damn about us goyum,until of course they need our help. then they are our allies.
You imply that the United States is blessed solely because she supports Israel ? What a load of crap!
Allies are supposed to give and take. So far I only see the U.S.giving and Israel taking. Oh,I forgot,Israel gave us Jonathan Pollard,you know,the one who was spying on us for Israel. When he was tried and convicted,Jewish special intrest groups screamed and yelled for his release! Yes, I haven't seen much give on Israel's part. Whats that? you say they have given us stability in the mid-east? I don't think so.
I have to agree with StyerAug's posts concerning this manner.

BTW: Don't take this as a personal attack on you,it isn't. It is an attack, however, on the same old tired line fed to us by our "Allies" and the media.

God I really wish some of you could read and comprehend. LAST TIME:

I said "Some American Jews consider themselves SONS OF ISRAEL"

This mean, despite their US citizenship they vote in a manner that benefits Israel, even at the expense of the US. They become involved in politics for the benefit of Israel and not the US. And they generally conduct their lives in a manner that benefits Israel and not the US. The sick part is some have never even been to Israel.

Post from Phoenix5 -

Sadly, I admit that this is true about some Jews, but that is not the truth about 'the Jews', as some monolithic abstraction. It may be said that American Jewry is 'anti-gun' and yet the JFPO is quoting scripture and verse showing that it the very essence of Bibilcal Jewish teaching, doctrine and practice was to be a strong arm for the Lord, and to resist evil in all forms, by all means.

There were some pretty powerful Kings and Nations who trembled at the name of King David, and for good reason.

What changed? The Jews, Hebrews, Israelites, whatever you choose to call them, were utterly, completely and ruthlessly, placed under the domination of other peoples. From the Romans onward, there have never been a Western or Middle-Eastern Civilization that did not attempt to completely control the Jews within its borders. For whatever reason, for good or ill, the Jews as a Nation did not make laws for themselves for a bit short of two thousand years!

It was prophesied that Judah would lose the ability of self-government at about the time of Messiah:


The first 'King' that was appointed by a foreign power and that the people of Israel were forced to accept, was King Herod, who was actually an Idumæan, and not an Israelite. Rome thereafter appointed each and every remaining King of the Jewish Palestine/Judea/Samaria, and to approve any of their laws, etc.

The specific right of execution was absolutely denied the Jews, with the result that at the time the Rabbis were quoted as saying "woe unto us, for the sceptre and orb have passed from Judah and still has Messiah [b]not[/b] come."

But, of course, He had come, to His own People, and they recognized Him not.  He was rejected, cursed, condemned and murdered by them (but only with the permission of Ceasar through the approval of his Roman Governor). Also, as was prophesied years before.

So [b]At Present[/b] we have a recognizable Jewish State-Nation-whatever, that, at least since 1948, has been calling its own shots!  Executing pretty damn much whomsoever they please, according to their own laws.

I'd have to say that the sceptre, orb, and all lawgiving abilities have pretty much been returned to 'Judah'. (My, what an interesting choice of individuals to represent the Jews, the very dude who gave them his name and by which they are called most commonly, 'Jews.')

Now, would be a nice time for Shiloh to Come.

Eric The(Well,Actually,ToComeAgain)Hun[>]:)]

I guess when your part of the chosen people you get to do this to children
[img]http://mut1.muscanet.com/~ampal/photo1.jpg[/img]

Not to bash or flame you, but if you had expressed yourself in a better way you would not receive responses like mine.
The way you wrote your post also suggested that each statement should stand by itself. Just like the Bible (which you quote so often) your post was open to interpretation [;)].

Fine, but as you might have noticed I didn't respond to that first statement (because I don't have a problem with it.) But the fact is that you then followed it up with several other statements which I indicated were incorrect.

Just because American Jews vote one way or another you cannot compare it to the way things work in Israel, or draw direct parallells.
For example, you wrote [b]"I understand that too many American Jews pioneered social integration in this country while keeping "their" race pure and segregated in Israel."[/b] By your wording you're implying that (A:) it's the same exact group of people who's responsible for the social intergration here as who are responsible for the segregation in Israel, (B:) Jews is a race, not a religion (exchange the word Jews for Christians and you'll see what I mean,)and (C:) the way you use the word "too," you are also implying that too many Jews were involved in social interaction as though that was a bad thing.

By your response to my reply I take it you meant something along the lines of "I understand that many American Jews (who act according to what is best for Israel) pioneered social integration in this country, even though the Jews in Israel are keeping their "race" pure and segregated."

Do you see now why I responded the way I did?

Please read [b]both[/b] your own posting, and mine, again and you'll might be able to read and comprehend too.

Just a couple things:
1. I NEVER quote the Bible.
2. MOST(not all)Jews do consider it a race and not just a Religion.
3. The SAME EXACT Jews who affect policy here(Joe Lieberman for example)advocate and affect much different policies in Israel. Joe Lieberman, in addition to being a US Senator is also a member of the World Jewish Conference. It is people like that, who I take issue with. The ones in American politics who get money diverted to Israel and act in the best interest of Israel before the US.

I haver zero problem with the average US citizen who observes Yum Kipper. Did I spell that right? If you wan't to be Jewish, be Jewish Sammy Davis, Jr. did. If you want to be a "son of Israel" move there.

And if you're not you get to take a bomb onto a bus to kill women and children. No side is better than the other.

You are correct, I apologize. I failed to realize that you were quoting 7.62__for_me.


Not to my experience, but then this is to be expected. I believe many of these Jews you've met, who consider themselves to be a separate race, do so because they (Jews throughout history) have been told that they are, and not because of some inherent geneological difference. (This is not arguing what you stated.)

Ah, so you actually meant "most American politicians who are Jewish." There's a world of difference. I agree that politicians is a separate race though.
I do agree that I don't like people diverting money to special interest groups, especially if these groups are international, or completely foreign. But I don't see this as an exclusively Jewish issue.


Yum Kippur I believe.
I'm not sure that all Jewish people mean that they are the sons of today's nation of Israel when they use that expression, although undoubtfully some do. I think they mean that they are the sons of the teachings that hail from Israel (Israel in the Bible that is.)

Actually I also take issue with Jews, who act as a Jewish community to elect these leaders for the purpose electing officials who will act in the best interest of Israel. It is very common.

And yes, I take the same issue with those who would do it for any other nation. Some black Americans do this to a small degree. But American Jews are by far, the greatest example of this kind of activity.

Does this mean there are not patriotic Americans of Jewish decent? Of course not. But the existence of one do not discount the existence of the other.

In Florida during the last election Elain Bloom ran for Congress. Want to know what her main issue was besides gun control for Florida? A strong State Of Israel. Now please tell me how that is a Florida issue? I guess it is the fact that there is a large JEWISH community here that is more interested in Israel(and money for Israel)than any issues that affect Florida or even the United States.

M1A-A1,

Excellent point!

Israel exists cause God wants them to exist and he gave them the land and they will have it as long as God wants them to have it. God is a great God,a loving God,and a powerful God. Most of all the God of Abraham,Isac and Jacob is the only God.
The Jewish people are the apple of his eye. They are very special to the Lord thy God. Don't mess with Israel cause you will mess with God!! And that is the truth. Our leaders better remember that.