Rather than hijack a topic that XxSLASHERxX has specifically requested we not I will answer the questions of MRW here from this topic: GANG rule in New Orleans

He is blaming the New Orleans Gang Activity on the fact that religion is NOT taught in schools. To me this is as absurd as blaming Bush for the hurricane like DUh.com is. I guess he really believes if all those shitbags had just a little more Sunday school they would all be good citizens. Well I ain't buying it. I furthered my point by noting I am not religious and I'm not robbing, raping and looting at every opportunity.

To which he replies as follows:

Can you give a morally compelling reason why not? "it's just not right" is not good enough. WHY is it not right? And the answer to that question must not only be sound, it must be a compelling reason, a reason that forces other folks to accept it.

You may well decide that robbing raping and killing is not right for you, and you may even have nice reasons why. But do those reasons impose themselves on your neighbor? Would you like them to? What if your neighbor decides that robbing and killing you IS right for him or is in HIS best interests, what moral right do you have to tell him that it's wrong?

And my answer is as follows...

I know I don't want to be stolen from so I don't steal.

I know I don't want to be murdered so I don't murder.

I know I don't want to see my loved ones raped so I don't rape.

It really is just that simple to determine right from wrong in most cases. I don't need a big invisible guy to scare me away from those things I only need to understand right from wrong.

And I beg to differ that "it's just not right" is certainly GOOD ENOUGH. It is ALL I need.

Perhaps MRW is not a very good person and needs a angry God and the threat of Hell to keep him from being a murdering shitbag. I don't know him but that seems to be what he is saying.

As for my neighbor, again I don't know for sure but he doesn't seem to be a murdering shitbag. I don't know if it is God, human decency or common sense that keeps him in line but he seems to be ok.

And I know my state is LOADED with murdering shitbags. And I don't think God, church or the Bible is going to change them in any way shape or form. They are, and probably always will be murdering shitbags with no human decency at all.

And finally if a person is "moral" and "decent" only because they fear God and his judgement then they are NOT "moral" or "decent" and they have learned NOTHING from their religion. They are just murdering shitbags waiting to happen who are only afraid of getting caught (judged).

If going to a church teaches a person to be moral and not murder and pillage, more power to it.

What we are seeing is the result of people who haven't learned to treat other people with respect. They did not learn it at home, at school, from their friends, peers, or their ministers. They have to learn it somewhere before it can take root.

Even a 6th century peasant had a chance to be a decent human being because he learned about it at church, and then treated his wife and children with respect, and so on and so on. Without religion it takes a higher level of learning to be a decent person than these people are ever exposed to.

Quoted: If going to a church teaches a person to be moral and not murder and pillage, more power to it. What we are seeing is the result of people who haven't learned to treat other people with respect. They did not learn it at home, at school, from their friends, peers, or their ministers. They have to learn it somewhere before it can take root. Even a 6th century peasant had a chance to be a decent human being because he learned about it at church, and then treated his wife and children with respect, and so on and so on. Without religion it takes a higher level of learning to be a decent person than these people are ever exposed to.

You know I can agree with most of that.

But I don't think religion is the magic cure all that MRW seems to think it is. I've seen a lot of chuch people, even some who actually believe in God, do some reprehensible things.

And I don't think it take a higher level of learning to be a decent person without religion, I think it only takes a decent person. Been decent people for thousands of years in countries all over the world.

I don't think religion makes decent people so much as I believe decent people tend to gravitate towards religions that hold or promote similar values.

Disrupting the Forum...