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Posted: 8/30/2005 4:39:21 AM EDT
Anyone care to bet on how much foreign aid mobilization takes place to help the millions of people affected by Katrina?

I know of one local church that has taken no less than 5 mission trips to Indonesia in the past year to help build houses for people who were affected by the tsunami.

Anyone want to bet on how many foreign mission trips come here from other so-called allied nations?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:41:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 4:41:55 AM EDT by Foxxz]
I often wonder the same. Seems like we never get any donations. If you are going to send money some place this year, why not spend it on your own country?

-Foxxz
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:42:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 4:43:17 AM EDT by garandman]

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Anyone care to bet on how much foreign aid mobilization takes place to help the millions of people affected by Katrina?

I know of one local church that has taken no less than 5 mission trips to Indonesia in the past year to help build houses for people who were affected by the tsunami.

Anyone want to bet on how many foreign mission trips come here from other so-called allied nations?



Isn't the standard "Do unto others as you would HAVE THEM do unto you?"

(this is PURELY on the personal, individual and not the governmental level)


My understanding of mission trips is to meet physical needs to earn the right to explain spiritual needs.

Its not a dollar for dollar investment decision.


Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:44:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:45:14 AM EDT

Why would they come to America when our poor have higher living standards than the middle class of other nations?

Shok
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:46:53 AM EDT
If they offered, we should decline.

But they damn sure should offer!
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:47:11 AM EDT
That's not very christian of you Bendover. You having a relapse?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:47:33 AM EDT
I wish I could find that winking thumbs-up Jesus pic.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:47:35 AM EDT
How do you "not contribute"??? Do you not pay income tax?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:50:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QShok:
Why would they come to America when our poor have higher living standards than the middle class of other nations?

Shok



Because it is the right thing to do.....
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:51:31 AM EDT
Being Christian has nothing to do with the fact that I am human and still get angry at the fact that we feed the world while they spit in our faces.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:51:37 AM EDT
Yep, it sure is a good idea to send all of our money to the south to pay for foreseeable, predictable "disasters." How difficult was it for New Orleans to see that their dikes & pumps aren't going to hold up? How difficult is it to foresee these hurricanes & then set to the building codes to prevent building on floodplains? Stop building ramshackle housing in hurricane prone areas? Prevent house trailers from being used as housing?

How often do you see the southerners sending aid north for blizzards, tornados, etc? In fact, weren't they the same fine Christians who said "Let the Yankee bastards freeze" in the last energy crisis?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:58:46 AM EDT
And in the spirit of Pompeii, we'll rebuild the damned city in the same place, still under sea level. Then when the next big hurricane doesn't veer off and it directly hits and wipes out New Orleans, people can still act all shocked and say, 'But how could this happen!?'

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:02:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Being Christian has nothing to do with the fact that I am human and still get angry at the fact that we feed the world while they spit in our faces.



Being a Christian you should expect to be repaid evil for good.

Yes it can tick you off.

But we must still help those who need help.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:04:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 5:05:48 AM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Being Christian has nothing to do with the fact that I am human and still get angry at the fact that we feed the world while they spit in our faces.



Jesus frowns on such selfish behavior, he told me so. You're trying to get IN to Heaven right?

As far as the rest of the world goes....I don't contribute cause I don't give two shits about 'other' countries. My government does that for me. I pay extremely high federal & state taxes, carry the brunt of Maine's apathetic welfare system, and unwillingly contribute to the philanthropic juggernaught that is the United States of America. So fuck em. That's reason enough. And that's MY opinion.

Why the others don't help US out.....I don't care about that either. In fact, I'm not sure I'd WANT them over here if they offered. If they were to send money....it'd be cash that we're probably lending them anyway, so whatever.

Let's "pray" for the safety of those hit hard by mother nature....or better yet, go down there and help out. At least Bourbon Street is getting a good rinsing. Hurricanes happen.

H
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:04:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Being Christian has nothing to do with the fact that I am human and still get angry at the fact that we feed the world while they spit in our faces.



Being a Christian you should expect to be repaid evil for good.

Yes it can tick you off.

But we must still help those who need help.



Now THAT is some high test grade A Christian talk.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:08:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcase:
Yep, it sure is a good idea to send all of our money to the south to pay for foreseeable, predictable "disasters." How difficult was it for New Orleans to see that their dikes & pumps aren't going to hold up?



There is a problem with that logic.

Namely that the city of NO has been around since well before the founding of our entire nation. It has ALWAYS been populated and ALWAYS been an important city precisely because of its location and geography.

It isn't like they built the place 20 years ago on a whim.

There is no place in the nation that is immune from natural disasters. Even here in the hills of northwestern Virginia we live on a major fault line, it just isn't very active. Yet.

There is no such thing as a perfectly safe place to build. Ever.

As to the forces nature can unleash, man rarely can anticipate the full forces mother nature has up her sleeve. Not to mention that being prepared costs money, and spending money on something like increasing pump capacity and levy strength is never very sexy. There are always more pressing problems that absorb whatever money is available.



How difficult is it to foresee these hurricanes & then set to the building codes to prevent building on floodplains? Stop building ramshackle housing in hurricane prone areas? Prevent house trailers from being used as housing?



A lot more difficult than you think. In theory, it sounds simple.

In reality, economic and political pressures make it far more difficult than many realize.



How often do you see the southerners sending aid north for blizzards, tornados, etc? In fact, weren't they the same fine Christians who said "Let the Yankee bastards freeze" in the last energy crisis?



Methinks you are coming unhinged.....

Do yourself a favor and stop now before you make a fool of yourself.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:10:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
Now THAT is some high test grade A Christian talk.



They say no good deed goes unpunished.

I am certainly living proof of that. I have been repaid for many a kind deed with a smack in the head.

Such is life.

Christ viewed people with compassion, even those that were driving nails through His hands and feet.

I don't quite bat in that league, but I hope to one day.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:12:03 AM EDT
"let the yankee bastards freeze?!?!"

Who said that. Them fightin' words!
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:14:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
There is no place in the nation that is immune from natural disasters. Even here in the hills of northwestern Virginia we live on a major fault line, it just isn't very active. Yet.

There is no such thing as a perfectly safe place to build. Ever.



And how many natural disaster relief dollars has Virginia sucked up, versus various other states? Sure, even the 'safest' place on Earth can get smacked by a meteorite, but come on, play the odds.

At the very least, one should have to sign a waiver if they want to live in a below sea level seaside city that is in a hurricane-prone area.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:15:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
That's not very christian of you Bendover. You having a relapse?



When one becomes a Christian, one does not cease to be human. The Christian is engaged in a constant struggle with the baser aspects of human nature. Few things in the world are so infuriating as being merciful and kind only to have that kindness and mercy repaid with insult and evil.

It is one thing for someone to spit in your face. It is a whole different thing to find someone broken and bleeding, put yourself on the line to save them, care for their wounds, help them regain their strength, and THEN to have them spit in your face.

This nation has poured trillions into helping people all across the world. And we are repaid by insult and contempt.

That is enough to make a fellow mad.

Still, it is the unfortunate result of the human condition.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:15:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 5:15:49 AM EDT by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:16:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
Now THAT is some high test grade A Christian talk.



They say no good deed goes unpunished.

I am certainly living proof of that. I have been repaid for many a kind deed with a smack in the head.

Such is life.

Christ viewed people with compassion, even those that were driving nails through His hands and feet.

I don't quite bat in that league, but I hope to one day.



Well...I think you're a couple laps ahead of the author

I don't mean to stir trouble here, just being a smart ass on a low stress rainy Tuesday.

Karma haunts me once in awhile, but largely, if you treat people with the straight forward respect you wish to be treated with....everything evens out.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:16:25 AM EDT
Ok, so there's one...

Venezuela offers fuel, food to hurricane-hit US Mon Aug 29, 7:56 PM ET

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez offered to send food and fuel to the United States after the powerful Hurricane Katrina pummeled the US south, ravaging US crude production.

The leftist leader, a frequent critic of the United States and a target himself of US disapproval, said Venezuela could send aid workers with drinking water, food and fuel to US communities hit by the hurricane.

"We place at the disposition of the people of the United States in the event of shortages -- we have drinking water, food, we can provide fuel," Chavez told reporters.

Chavez said fuel could be sent to the United States via a Citgo refinery that has not been affected by the hurricane. Citgo is owned by Venezuela's state-owned oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela (PDVSA).

In the Gulf of Mexico, which accounts for a quarter of total US oil output, 92 percent of crude and 83 percent of natural gas production were shut down due to Hurricane Katrina, which slammed Louisiana and Mississippi, according to US government data.

Venezuela is the fourth-largest provider of oil to the United States, supplying some 1.5 million barrels a day.

Last week, Chavez offered discount gasoline to poor Americans suffering from high oil prices and on Sunday offered free eye surgery for Americans without access to health care.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:19:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:19:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 5:22:40 AM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
This nation has poured trillions into helping people all across the world. And we are repaid by insult and contempt.

That is enough to make a fellow mad.

Still, it is the unfortunate result of the human condition.



blah blah blah I hear ya, I do.

But unfortunate or not.....

Refusing to contribute to foreign relief efforts because some faceless 3rd world ass clown wearing an Osama t-shirt is video taped dancing on an American flag live on CNN after we fed him and his family of 20 for months during the 2004 tsunami fiasco....

doesn't seem very Christian to me. Where's the unconditional love and respect for 'thy' neighbor?

Or did we drop the 10 commandments down to 9? If so I didn't get the memo.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:22:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bubbles:
Ok, so there's one...

Venezuela offers fuel, food to hurricane-hit US Mon Aug 29, 7:56 PM ET

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez offered to send food and fuel to the United States after the powerful Hurricane Katrina pummeled the US south, ravaging US crude production.

The leftist leader, a frequent critic of the United States and a target himself of US disapproval, said Venezuela could send aid workers with drinking water, food and fuel to US communities hit by the hurricane.

"We place at the disposition of the people of the United States in the event of shortages -- we have drinking water, food, we can provide fuel," Chavez told reporters.

Chavez said fuel could be sent to the United States via a Citgo refinery that has not been affected by the hurricane. Citgo is owned by Venezuela's state-owned oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela (PDVSA).

In the Gulf of Mexico, which accounts for a quarter of total US oil output, 92 percent of crude and 83 percent of natural gas production were shut down due to Hurricane Katrina, which slammed Louisiana and Mississippi, according to US government data.

Venezuela is the fourth-largest provider of oil to the United States, supplying some 1.5 million barrels a day.

Last week, Chavez offered discount gasoline to poor Americans suffering from high oil prices and on Sunday offered free eye surgery for Americans without access to health care.



Chavez is doing this as an insult to the US. Not as a helper of the US people.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:23:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Sorry, chum, but the City of New Orleans is an American treasure!



Treasure to whores and drunks, sure. I just thought it was hot, humid, crime-ridden (and that coming from a Detroiter), and it smelled like piss.



The oldest buildings in the Mississippi River Valley are located in that fine old City.



So move them. Greenfield Village, a fine museum of sorts here in MI, has many transplanted historic buildings.



It is of immense historical and cultural importance to this Nation.



Again, to whores and drunks. Maybe you haven't swung by there in the past century or so?



The Louisiana Purchase Treaty was signed at the Cabildo on Jackson Square. Surrounded by the Pontalba Apartments, the oldest apartments in the United States.

The French Quarter, itself, houses more residences of historical importance than other entire States!



The phrase 'Whoop-dee-fucking-doo' comes to mind. None of that is worth the dozens of billions of dollars this will end up costing us.



It is the second largest port in the United States...like to sell that wheat y'all grow, do you?



The whole damned city looks like a port right now.

I am sick of paying for other people mistakes and problems time and again. If we are going to spend billions down there, it damned well better be to get people to other places, not to rebuild our little Pompeii.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:24:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
Now THAT is some high test grade A Christian talk.



They say no good deed goes unpunished.

I am certainly living proof of that. I have been repaid for many a kind deed with a smack in the head.

Such is life.

Christ viewed people with compassion, even those that were driving nails through His hands and feet.

I don't quite bat in that league, but I hope to one day.



Well...I think you're a couple laps ahead of the author

I don't mean to stir trouble here, just being a smart ass on a low stress rainy Tuesday.

Karma haunts me once in awhile, but largely, if you treat people with the straight forward respect you wish to be treated with....everything evens out.



I am man enough to admit my human shortcomings. I'll never claim piety above the factual truth of my own humanity.

Here's some Grade A Christian talk for you to consider.

Being a Christian doesn't require perfection. It requires being forgiven.

Regarding Chavez wanting to send help... of course he does. He wants the US to extradite Pat Robertson to Venezuela to stand trial for exercising his first amendment rights.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:24:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Chavez is doing this as an insult to the US. Not as a helper of the US people.



Interesting point....

Would we want others contributing to our disasters anyway? We are afterall, a very proud country.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:25:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
blah blah blah I hear ya, I do.

But unfortunate or not.....

Refusing to contribute to foreign relief efforts because some faceless 3rd world ass clown wearing an Osama t-shirt is video taped dancing on an American flag live on CNN after we fed him and his family of 20 for months during the 2004 tsunami fiasco....

doesn't seem very Christian to me. Where's the unconditional love and respect for 'thy' neighbor?

Or did we drop the 10 commandments down to 9? If so I didn't get the memo.



There is a difference between being kind and being stupid.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:25:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Regarding Chavez wanting to send help... of course he does. He wants the US to extradite Pat Robertson to Venezuela to stand trial for exercising his first amendment rights.



Seems like a good trade to me
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:26:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 5:27:08 AM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


There is a difference between being kind and being stupid.



and who are we to make that judgement?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:29:37 AM EDT
tagged.


<---believes that those who hate me/we/us have souls, too; souls just as valueable as my own.


Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:29:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


There is a difference between being kind and being stupid.



and who are we to make that judgement?



Being a Christian doesn't require you to be a doormat.

Jesus said turn the other cheek, but he didn't tell you what to do after they hit that one as well.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:30:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
Interesting point....

Would we want others contributing to our disasters anyway? We are afterall, a very proud country.



I certainly don't.

I would personally prefer that we handle our own problems ourselves. I view it like family. I don't have a problem helping out other families, but I would rather care for my family's needs myself. Is it a pride issue? Not really. I just don't view it as anyone else's job to care for my family.

It is one thing if I lack the resources to help my own family. If I genuinely can't provide for their need, I won't let my feelings get in the way of that. But so long as I am able, I ought to be the one providing for them.

I view helping my countrymen the same way.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:30:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BenDover:

Originally Posted By Hokie:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


There is a difference between being kind and being stupid.



and who are we to make that judgement?



Being a Christian doesn't require you to be a doormat.

Jesus said turn the other cheek, but he didn't tell you what to do after they hit that one as well.




maybe that's the test
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:32:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
and who are we to make that judgement?



Contributing money to someone who needs help but may not like you = Christian charity

Contributing money to someone who is going to use it to buy bombs to blow you up = Stupidity

Jesus didn't buy them the nails to crucify Him with.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:34:08 AM EDT
I concur, that is why I refused to contribute anything to the Tsunami thing. I figured the country was going to send enough of my tax dollars over there. I wasn't going to send anything extra to a mainly muslim country who hates us, unless we are giving them handouts. Let Osama help 'em...

And I never see the other countries of the world getting together to help us when natural disasters strike here....You aren't going to see Indonesians coming here to help rebuild peoples houses on the Gulf Coast......
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:34:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Anyone care to bet on how much foreign aid mobilization takes place to help the millions of people affected by Katrina?

I know of one local church that has taken no less than 5 mission trips to Indonesia in the past year to help build houses for people who were affected by the tsunami.

Anyone want to bet on how many foreign mission trips come here from other so-called allied nations?



I never gave to the tsunami victims either, I used the money to buy glock magazines instead, guess I'm evil
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:37:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
and who are we to make that judgement?



Contributing money to someone who needs help but may not like you = Christian charity

Contributing money to someone who is going to use it to buy bombs to blow you up = Stupidity

Jesus didn't buy them the nails to crucify Him with.




If we're talking about the federal distribution of phinathropic monies in predominantly muslim countries....then that's subject matter for another thread.

If we're talking about providing food money so a family of 5 in Indonesia can have potable drinking water as their well is overrun by sewage, that's another.

You're statement is pretty absolute....I'm not sure it's driving your point in the right direction.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:39:13 AM EDT
There are some really good points here. Some other extra-United States religions are passing up a potential gold mine here. Lot’s of heathens standing around waiting to be converted.

Mission trip fundraisers can rake in some beaucoup cash, it’s an industry in itself really – and if their government’s anything like ours, the level of revenue scrutiny probably isn’t all that high since churches don’t pay taxes.

Not too sure how well a lot of Americans would take to the proselytizing of one of those funny foreign religions. Here’s a small guess: They’d be offended.

Anybody remember what Giuliani did with that check for $10Mil he got from that Saudi prince after he made a sideways comment about Israel/Palestine?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:40:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 5:41:31 AM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
There are some really good points here. Some other extra-United States religions are passing up a potential gold mine here. Lot’s of heathens standing around waiting to be converted.

Mission trip fundraisers can rake in some beaucoup cash, it’s an industry in itself really – and if their government’s anything like ours, the level of revenue scrutiny probably isn’t all that high since churches don’t pay taxes.

Not too sure how well a lot of Americans would take to the proselytizing of one of those funny foreign religions. Here’s a small guess: They’d be offended.

Anybody remember what Giuliani did with that check for $10Mil he got from that Saudi prince after he made a sideways comment about Israel/Palestine?



I have no idea, but I'd bet it involved some serious cowbell.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:42:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Targethunter:

Originally Posted By QShok:
Why would they come to America when our poor have higher living standards than the middle class of other nations?

Shok



Because it is the right thing to do.....




I suppose it would be polite but an exercise in futility doesn't seem justified.

Shok
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:43:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 5:45:49 AM EDT by Dog1]
Not believing in god and all of that other mumbo-jumbo..I say this

I care nothing, repete, nothing about others outside this country. Used to, but recent events have turned that around.

I do not care for those that are here illegally...to me they are "non-persons", not worthy of my help.

I do not give to relief efforts for those outside the country. Let the U.N. handle it..


I already give money, my tax money, forceably, when my leaders choose to waste it overseas

As for the Big Easy...they should not be allowed to rebuild it. Move it inland...above sea level would be my choice, but hey I'm just a landlubber, so what do I know...

As for Citgo-fuck that...I'm not going there anymore..
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:49:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:51:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
If we're talking about the federal distribution of phinathropic monies in predominantly muslim countries....then that's subject matter for another thread.



I am talking about individual giving.



If we're talking about providing food money so a family of 5 in Indonesia can have potable drinking water as their well is overrun by sewage, that's another.



That is exactly what I am talking about. My church organization, for instance, did exactly that during the tsunami. Relief efforts in the means of building housing and schools and the like are still ongoing.

It is true that not all the people in Indonesia like us. It is true that a good many of them seriously dislike Christians. A lot of it is because of the wrong headed stuff they have been told and taught, and I don't really fault them for it.

When someone needs food and water or shelter just to survive, then I believe there is a moral obligation to help them if it is possible to do so. If someone is genuinely in need, I will help them.



You're statement is pretty absolute....I'm not sure it's driving your point in the right direction.



It isn't as complicated as you are percieving it.

I gladly sent money to help aid those harmed by the tsunami. While the thread on ARFCOM was going on and lots of people were saying, and I quote, "fuck em", I was passionately arguing that such attitudes were morally unacceptable. Those people needed our help. I did what little I could and encouraged others to do so.

Whether they were muslim or not, they were innocent people in need of help.

Now if Osama needed money to save his life, I wouldn't give him a plug nickel. Why? Because his entire existence is dedicated to killing innocent people. Until he repents, he gets no help.

There is a difference between helping someone who is in need, and helping someone further their sin. There are homeless junkies who really could use many basic necessities, but handing them money is immoral and stupid. Why? Because they will just buy drugs with it and further mess themselves up.

They can still be helped, but by giving them things they cannot readily convert into what is destroying them.

Our church used to have a food bank where we fed the hungry. We helped a lot of families who were genuinely in need. We stopped after we discovered that the majority of those we were "helping" were SELLING the groceries we gave them to buy booze and cigarettes.

After an investigation, we discovered that a good many of them were not in need for any reason but personal stupidity. We still fed their kids by working with other charity groups in the area that directly targeted the innocent victims of their stupidity.

There were widow women on fixed incomes in our church who would not eat 2 days out of the week so they could afford to put food in that food bank for the needy when they were needy themselves. To waste that kind of sacrifice on people who refuse to be helped is a SIN.

Jesus told us to be as harmless as doves, but as wise as serpents. We can't just give willy nilly. We need to make sure help goes to those who actually need it and will actually benefit from it, not to those who will use it to subsidize evil.

Sometimes that is complicated. Most of the time it isn't.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:52:00 AM EDT
When we got hit with a couple of hurricanes last year, the help in my area came from Louisiana and Texas, from the tags on the trucks.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:56:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 6:02:15 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
There are some really good points here. Some other extra-United States religions are passing up a potential gold mine here. Lot’s of heathens standing around waiting to be converted.

Mission trip fundraisers can rake in some beaucoup cash, it’s an industry in itself really – and if their government’s anything like ours, the level of revenue scrutiny probably isn’t all that high since churches don’t pay taxes.



Ah yes! It is all a giant racket!

I believe if you will look at 9/11 abuses, you will find that it was secular scamming going on, not religious.

If you knew anything about the financial regulations on churches, you would know how SILLY your statements are. Church books are as open to scrutiny as any buisness, and MORESO than any individual's finances. Special projects with special project numbers have to be accounted for properly. Failing to spend money given for a specific project on that actual project is illegal and is a sure way to end up with one's butt in a sling.



Not too sure how well a lot of Americans would take to the proselytizing of one of those funny foreign religions. Here’s a small guess: They’d be offended.



There are numerous religions in this country looking for converts already. We seem to do fairly well with it now....



Anybody remember what Giuliani did with that check for $10Mil he got from that Saudi prince after he made a sideways comment about Israel/Palestine?



Guliani handed the money back because the message of that Saudi prince was unacceptable. His [Guliani's] message was that we were not beggars, so we could sure as hell be choosers. Money doesn't excuse everything.

That is what seperates America from the thinking of such Saudi princes. (The Saudis throw money at every problem...)
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:57:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
If we're talking about the federal distribution of phinathropic monies in predominantly muslim countries....then that's subject matter for another thread.



I am talking about individual giving.



If we're talking about providing food money so a family of 5 in Indonesia can have potable drinking water as their well is overrun by sewage, that's another.



That is exactly what I am talking about. My church organization, for instance, did exactly that during the tsunami. Relief efforts in the means of building housing and schools and the like are still ongoing.

It is true that not all the people in Indonesia like us. It is true that a good many of them seriously dislike Christians. A lot of it is because of the wrong headed stuff they have been told and taught, and I don't really fault them for it.

When someone needs food and water or shelter just to survive, then I believe there is a moral obligation to help them if it is possible to do so. If someone is genuinely in need, I will help them.



You're statement is pretty absolute....I'm not sure it's driving your point in the right direction.



It isn't as complicated as you are percieving it.

I gladly sent money to help aid those harmed by the tsunami. While the thread on ARFCOM was going on and lots of people were saying, and I quote, "fuck em", I was passionately arguing that such attitudes were morally unacceptable. Those people needed our help. I did what little I could and encouraged others to do so.

Whether they were muslim or not, they were innocent people in need of help.

Now if Osama needed money to save his life, I wouldn't give him a plug nickel. Why? Because his entire existence is dedicated to killing innocent people. Until he repents, he gets no help.

There is a difference between helping someone who is in need, and helping someone further their sin. There are homeless junkies who really could use many basic necessities, but handing them money is immoral and stupid. Why? Because they will just buy drugs with it and further mess themselves up.

They can still be helped, but by giving them things they cannot readily convert into what is destroying them.

Our church used to have a food bank where we fed the hungry. We helped a lot of families who were genuinely in need. We stopped after we discovered that the majority of those we were "helping" were SELLING the groceries we gave them to buy booze and cigarettes.

After an investigation, we discovered that a good many of them were not in need for any reason but personal stupidity. We still fed their kids by working with other charity groups in the area that directly targeted the innocent victims of their stupidity.

There were widow women on fixed incomes in our church who would not eat 2 days out of the week so they could afford to put food in that food bank for the needy when they were needy themselves. To waste that kind of sacrifice on people who refuse to be helped is a SIN.

Jesus told us to be as harmless as doves, but as wise as serpents. We can't just give willy nilly. We need to make sure help goes to those who actually need it and will actually benefit from it, not to those who will use it to subsidize evil.

Sometimes that is complicated. Most of the time it isn't.



Okay, I'm good! Well said.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:57:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Most native New Orleans folks don't go near the French Quarter...



Damned straight they don't, because it's under however many feet of water. Should they rebuild their city in a less-retarded location, they will solve at least that problem. Too expensive!, you cry. Really? And how much is this cleanup going to cost, along with the cleanups of the past and all of those which we know will need to occur again?

You yip and yap a lot, but you don't actually say anything meaningful about the matter at hand. True to form, but it gets old. Since you are so damned concerned, why are you here posting, instead of filling sandbags in that piss-mop of a city? (Well, it's probably a damned sight cleaner by now.)

It's one thing to save the people. Of course we should do that. But the city itself is going back to the sea, like it or not. Between rising sea levels, hurricanes, and the fact that your precious and filthy city is already below sea level guarantees that it is fucked. Even you, when the ritalin kicks in, can see that.
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