Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 9/6/2004 3:27:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 3:33:37 PM EST by Happyshooter]
I have seen the wolf/reload discussion here over and over again. I have reloaded for years, ever since I got out of the Marines 12 years ago. I still reload for .38 wheelguns, but I no longer make 9mm or .45 rounds.

I wanted to start a thread here, where everyone will see it, and hopefully respond.

I shoot a 1911, and two Double Eagles (colt's short lived double action versions of the 1911). That means the brass flys out when you shoot it.

I buy wolf, 230gr fmj, for $120 at the gun show. I pay six percent sales tax on it, but I pay that on the reloading supplies as well so it's a wash. I do not count the fun show entry fee, because I get so much joy out of seeing all the weapons experts, former seal rangers, and militia cammie boys that I would pay just to go see the show.

So, that means I pay $120 per thousand for wolf.

To reload my costs are:

Brass (once fired) (three cents each, and figure that I lose 1/4, either in the sand or cracked, which means three cents times 250 equals $7.50 plus shipping, or $6 fun show discount price) $6

Bullets (230gr FMJ) $66 (200gr LSWC) $48 To compare apples to apples, with fun show price, figure $60

Powder (about a half pound, with fun show discount and 5# purchase) $6

Primers (figure fun show purchase and buying 5m at a time) $15

That means that without looking at my equipment costs (which are huge--ranging from the press and case cleaner, bench, media, polish, gauges, dies, tools, and stool) 1000 rounds of home load costs me $81. Reloading, assuming that all my equipment is free, therefore saves me $39.

However, that is not the end of the question. Reloading 1000 rounds takes over three hours. There is also about an hour of prep time (case cleaning, case inspection for gross cracks or problems or wrong size, primer tube filling). That means that my $39 savings is really the result of my labor, in effect I work an hour to earn (save) $9.90. My pay rate is well above that amount.

Then we have the raw PITA factor of picking up my brass. It takes time out of my shooting, and it causes fellow shooters who I may be out with to also do the familar 'stoop and pick' slow walk. Quite frankly, having done that walk for 10 years, I will pay the entire 'reloading savings' of $4 per hundred to avoid having to pick up the brass, much less when I factor in how many hours reloading .45 costs me.

Everything I posted above for .45 goes at least 1/3 more in wolf's favor when it comes to 9mm.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:31:50 PM EST
Why I don't shoot Wolf .45 ACP ammo.

Saw my buddy lock up his HK pistol so badly it took both of us to pry the slide back open. Even he decided it was crap ammo when that happened, and he is about the cheapest bastard I have ever shot with.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:33:39 PM EST
Well............Ok.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:36:52 PM EST
<---likes wolf pistol ammo!

Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:37:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 3:38:05 PM EST by brushdog]

Originally Posted By AR-10:
Why I don't shoot Wolf .45 ACP ammo.

Saw my buddy lock up his HK pistol so badly it took both of us to pry the slide back open. Even he decided it was crap ammo when that happened, and he is about the cheapest bastard I have ever shot with.



I've seen a beretta lock up too. But they were bone dry and not ammo related.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:38:17 PM EST
Why I cant shoot wolf ammo: My shooting range wont allow it.

Never tried it in my pistols because I heard it was bad. But it seems to sell. Whats so bad about it anyway?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:41:40 PM EST
Like you, I have done the math and don't see any reason to spend my time cranking the reloader handle. I prefer to spend my time at the range.

Wolf shoots fine for me. It is even reasonably accurate. Never had a FTF.

As long as the Ruskies make it, I plan to shoot it.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:43:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Jeeper21:
Why I cant shoot wolf ammo: My shooting range wont allow it.



why?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:43:41 PM EST
The shell casing was stuck (almost glued) in the chamber so bad, we both had to grab the HK USP (his pride and joy) and yank in opposite directions. Took three tries to get the slide to move.

He was quite perplexed. He actually gave the rest of the box to someone else. A remarkable gesture on his part. He offered it to me, but I respectfully declined.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:46:44 PM EST

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By Jeeper21:
Why I cant shoot wolf ammo: My shooting range wont allow it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



same, dont know why either, tried asking, couldnt give me straight answer, cant shoot AKs or SKS there either, even with American ammo, again, no straight answer. Must just not like eastern bloc stuff.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:49:31 PM EST
Some indoor rages don't like Wolf ammo because they can't do squat with the casings. They could make money off of brass, but the steel is worthless, and it seems a lot of guys just LEAVE IT LAYING ABOUT.

It is a money loser for them.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:49:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By Jeeper21:
Why I cant shoot wolf ammo: My shooting range wont allow it.



why?



When you enter the building there is a poster on the wall that states wolf ammo isnt allowed on the range. There are reasons listed, but I forget what they are.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:52:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 3:55:30 PM EST by Happyshooter]
In my 1911 I usually get 800-1000 rounds between cleanings. I clean when the gun first stovepipes. Mind you, wolf does turn the gun black, The front sight 'night eye' dot is unusable within 100 rounds, and when I do take it apart and clean it with lots of MP-7 I end up turning a tee shirt cloth rag black.

Back in the old days when I did the same thing with my reloads the gun would still only go 800-1000, but it was nowhere near as dirty.

I am glad that they went to poly coat, even though it never bothered my pistols the old coating worried me somewhat in the back of my mind.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:53:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR-10:
The shell casing was stuck (almost glued) in the chamber so bad, we both had to grab the HK USP (his pride and joy) and yank in opposite directions. Took three tries to get the slide to move.

He was quite perplexed. He actually gave the rest of the box to someone else. A remarkable gesture on his part. He offered it to me, but I respectfully declined.



For whatever reason, USP's don't like to eat Wolf. I don't know why. They just don't.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:54:48 PM EST
The reloading thing is okay if you have lots of extra time on your hands and need some thing to do.
The end product should be much better but Wolf has never given me a problem so far. I just do not have the time to reload. I rather spent the time shooting it. I do think reloading would be fun and open
up a new page for me in the shooting world. Making perfect rounds for long range shooting would be the thing for me.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:55:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Guntoting_Spartan:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By Jeeper21:
Why I cant shoot wolf ammo: My shooting range wont allow it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



same, dont know why either, tried asking, couldnt give me straight answer, cant shoot AKs or SKS there either, even with American ammo, again, no straight answer. Must just not like eastern bloc stuff.



If it's like one range I went to, it's because they don't make any money off selling the steel cases. They salvage the brass for resale.


Nothing wrong with Wolf at all. Shot the stuff for a 2 day rifle course just recently, 800 rounds of 5.56 and a little over 200 rounds of 9mm. Not a single problem.
The only reason I don't shoot Wolf .45 simply because I've never seen it for sale locally. If Wolf .308 or 30/06 comes available i'll pack up the reloading equipment and maybe finally be able to put a car in the garage.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:56:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By sam1963:
The reloading thing is okay if you have lots of extra time on your hands and need some thing to do.
The end product should be much better but Wolf has never given me a problem so far. I just do not have the time to reload. I rather spent the time shooting it. I do think reloading would be fun and open
up a new page for me in the shooting world. Making perfect rounds for long range shooting would be the thing for me.



Then we need to talk about 30/06, or .357, or .44 (or .500 if I ever see one used at a good price). That's what you need to reload for.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:00:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:00:37 PM EST
I shoot nothing but Wolf .45 in my USP fullsize. Shoots to POI, is loaded a tad hotter/as hot as WWB, and is nice and easy to clean in my experience - no different than reloads or WWB.

I did notice something peculiar the other day however....the polymer still manages to leave residue in the chamber. Whether its from the casing, or just "crud" from firing thats hardened in there, I dont know. Its a bitch to get out.

NO malfunctions so far, 100% accurate and always goes bang. Its about $126/1000 shipped to my door. Thats about $75 a case in savings. So technically, 2 cases of wolf equals one case of "super spiffy" brass cased ammo. If I go through another 1000 rounds without fail, id start to consider stockpiling it.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:02:52 PM EST
Why I reload for my Wilson 1911? To pick the most repeatable load, of course! That I also save about 30% off the cheapest Wolf price is just a bonus.

My first Dillon paid for itself after 7000 rounds, and that included all the dies, scale, primer tubes, flip trays, etc. (That was compared to the cheapest POS white-box reloads, too.)

To each, his own, however. I do reload for my AR-10 and 15, but not my AK.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:08:38 PM EST
I've never had a problem with Wolf, I just like to reload
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:09:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:13:01 PM EST
No big deal, if it works for you, shoot it. Me personally , I've shot thousands upon thousands upon thousands of rounds of Wolf. In .45 acp, .223,7.62X39,.40 S&W and now that I see .308 in my area(FINALLY!!) , I will be getting some of that as well. My Glock 21 & 30 REALLY like it ! If I do my part the 21 will shoot one ragged hole at 25 yds! I've out shot a guy shooting his Glock in 10 mm with me using Wolf. Currently though I'm working on a reload in .45 acp for a local competition. Re-coil can be reduced there by speeding up recovery there by not getting any time penalties. And I don't have to worry about a "Power factor" in this particular match. Anyway , I like Wolf A LOT! Actually it is my SHTF ammo for all my guns. And I like to re-load . I have the best of both worlds. WOO-HOOO!!!Take care. Coondog
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:14:24 PM EST
nothing wrong with wolf, just prepare to replace your broken extractor sooner than later.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:57:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:03:01 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:04:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:04:43 PM EST
I thought you were going to say "Because I own a Glock, and I want to keep all my fingers"
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:05:27 PM EST
Im gonna tear your post apart!!!


Originally Posted By Happyshooter:
I have seen the wolf/reload discussion here over and over again. I have reloaded for years, ever since I got out of the Marines 12 years ago. I still reload for .38 wheelguns, but I no longer make 9mm or .45 rounds.

I wanted to start a thread here, where everyone will see it, and hopefully respond.

I shoot a 1911, and two Double Eagles (colt's short lived double action versions of the 1911). That means the brass flys out when you shoot it.

I buy wolf, 230gr fmj, for $120 at the gun show. I pay six percent sales tax on it, but I pay that on the reloading supplies as well so it's a wash. I do not count the fun show entry fee, because I get so much joy out of seeing all the weapons experts, former seal rangers, and militia cammie boys that I would pay just to go see the show.

YOU FORGOT THE STENCH FACTOR!!!! THE ONES THAT DONT BATHE!!!

So, that means I pay $120 per thousand for wolf.

WHAT ABOUT CLEANING ALL THE MELTED "LAQUER" THAT GOOS UP THE GUN

To reload my costs are:

Brass (once fired) (three cents each, and figure that I lose 1/4, either in the sand or cracked, which means three cents times 250 equals $7.50 plus shipping, or $6 fun show discount price) $6

Bullets (230gr FMJ) $66 (200gr LSWC) $48 To compare apples to apples, with fun show price, figure $60

Powder (about a half pound, with fun show discount and 5# purchase) $6

Primers (figure fun show purchase and buying 5m at a time) $15

That means that without looking at my equipment costs (which are huge--ranging from the press and case cleaner, bench, media, polish, gauges, dies, tools, and stool) 1000 rounds of home load costs me $81. Reloading, assuming that all my equipment is free, therefore saves me $39.

However, that is not the end of the question. Reloading 1000 rounds takes over three hours. WHAT ABOUT THE RELAXATION FACTOR?? There is also about an hour of prep time (case cleaning, case inspection for gross cracks or problems or wrong size, primer tube filling). That means that my $39 savings is really the result of my labor, in effect I work an hour to earn (save) $9.90. My pay rate is well above that amount.

Then we have the raw PITA factor of picking up my brass. ITS CALLED EXCERCISE ....FATASS!!!!It takes time out of my shooting, and it causes fellow shooters who I may be out with to also do the familar 'stoop and pick' slow walk. Quite frankly, having done that walk for 10 years, I will pay the entire 'reloading savings' of $4 per hundred to avoid having to pick up the brass, much less when I factor in how many hours reloading .45 costs me.

Everything I posted above for .45 goes at least 1/3 more in wolf's favor when it comes to 9mm.



ACTUALLY I AGREE 100% WITH EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID... IM JUST A PRICK TODAY. IN ALL HONESTY I HAVE HAD NO PROBLEMS WITH WOLF PISTOL AMMO... NONE, ZERO, ZILTCH. I HAD PROBLEMS WITH THE OLDER WOLF 223 AMMO BUT MOST EVERYONE HERE SAYS IT IS NOW OK... MAYBE I'LL GIVE IT ANOTHER TRY.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:05:37 PM EST
Wolf ammo stuck my .40 USP Compact stuck with a live round in the chamber.

However, my two .40 Glocks eat it like a fat chick at a buffet. Probably 2k rounds each through them with no trouble at all.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:08:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By mucknuggle:
Wolf ammo stuck my .40 USP Compact stuck with a live round in the chamber.

However, my two .40 Glocks eat it like a fat chick at a buffet. Probably 2k rounds each through them with no trouble at all.



How the heck did it jam with a live round in the chamber? Did a second primer hit fire the round?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:19:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR-10:
Why I don't shoot Wolf .45 ACP ammo.

Saw my buddy lock up his HK pistol so badly it took both of us to pry the slide back open. Even he decided it was crap ammo when that happened, and he is about the cheapest bastard I have ever shot with.



I had the same problem with my Tactical, but my H&K Compact eats it w/o complaint.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:22:51 PM EST
Fired the round in the chamber.

Slide cycled as usual, ejected spent case, chambered new round 95% of the way as it closed, but the tight chamber and the red laquer from the Wolf cases "glued" it shut.

The range owner basically pointed it at the ground and "gorilla fucked" it to get it open.

I stood WAAAAAAAY behind him.


Originally Posted By dravisar:


How the heck did it jam with a live round in the chamber? Did a second primer hit fire the round?

Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:28:36 PM EST
I shoot these for 79.00/1000

230 berry's fmj

fed 150 primer

4.3 gr. tite group

Mixed pickup cases

Buy you componets in bulk the best bet for bullets is hang around IDPA or IPSC shooters for the best deals.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:30:45 PM EST
The replies in this thread are a far cry from what you guys used to think of wolf ammo. I guess some of you actually tried it and found all the wild kaboom and jamming stories to be far and few.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:37:05 PM EST
I'd never use it in another H&K, but I buy cases of it for my Glocks.

Going to pick some up in 7.62x39 sometime soon, too, as soon as my "giant sardine can" of ammo from CheaperThanDirt is used up (came with a "giant can opener" too)




Originally Posted By 1776:
The replies in this thread are a far cry from what you guys used to think of wolf ammo. I guess some of you actually tried it and found all the wild kaboom and jamming stories to be far and few.

Link Posted: 9/6/2004 7:07:38 PM EST
I haven't tried the new 45 ammo, the old stuff just killed my Kimber Pro Carry. FTE, FTF constantly
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 7:26:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR15:
I haven't tried the new 45 ammo, the old stuff just killed my Kimber Pro Carry. FTE, FTF constantly



We always hurt the ones we love

I'll shoot Wolf in my AKs only.
For 45 I can reload cheaper with lead bullets and lighter loads and get less wear on the pistol.

Link Posted: 9/6/2004 7:42:05 PM EST
Pleae don't bet your life on it My shooting buddy and I had serious failures to eject during IPCS matches.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 7:44:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR-10:
Why I don't shoot Wolf .45 ACP ammo.

Saw my buddy lock up his HK pistol so badly it took both of us to pry the slide back open. Even he decided it was crap ammo when that happened, and he is about the cheapest bastard I have ever shot with.



Man thats awful, One of my glocks has 2k rds of wolf and only been boresnaked once. Go figure.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:00:00 PM EST
I don't reload rifle ammo, because I am lazy and its a hassle. But I reload all my .45, I figure it costs me .05 and .08 a round depending on what bullet I use. With a progressive reloader I can do between 400 to 500 an hour without breaking a sweat, just have my wife reload the primer tubes for me(yea--right!!) and its relaxing.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:00:52 PM EST
strictly handloads for me

no wolf crap

Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:09:05 PM EST
Wolf blew up my M4gery. I still have the broken pieces of casing that Bushmaster sent back to me. A month later my ass was in a reloading class.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:16:14 PM EST
Wolf just stinks too! Smells like Wolf Poo Poo and makes a mess of my guns
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:24:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR-10:
The shell casing was stuck (almost glued) in the chamber so bad, we both had to grab the HK USP (his pride and joy) and yank in opposite directions. Took three tries to get the slide to move.

He was quite perplexed. He actually gave the rest of the box to someone else. A remarkable gesture on his part. He offered it to me, but I respectfully declined.



I think I know your friend.. Does he have a UTL and a 12rnd mag with a extention?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 11:58:33 PM EST
I shoot a lot of Wolf.

In my AR it's my choice when plinking at the rock quarry as it's almost impossible to police brass there. I reload very accurate 223 for the range. I shoot about 50/50 Wolf and reloads.

My AK and SKS are on a Wolf only diet (unless another steel cased ammo is cheaper.

The only 9mm's I have is my carry piece (Kel-Tec) and my carbine (Hi-Point). Wolf cuts a nice ragged hole with 10 rounds at 50 yds through the carbine and pretty nice groups at defense range through the pistol. I gave up loading 9mm a long time ago as the only way it was economical was using lead bullets and I never got a good accurate load with them.

I reload 45ACP for my 1911. I have shot Wolf, but it's no where close to the accuracy I get with my handloads. I reload lead 45ACP for about $50./1K so it's also cheaper than Wolf.

I live in the Pacific Northwest so I gets lots of "garage time" in the winter for reloading. I stock up on components during sales, load all winter and shoot it up all summer.

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 2:37:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR-10:
Why I don't shoot Wolf .45 ACP ammo.

Saw my buddy lock up his HK pistol so badly it took both of us to pry the slide back open. Even he decided it was crap ammo when that happened, and he is about the cheapest bastard I have ever shot with.



Mine did that too. Had to pry out the casing with a key. USPs seem not to like em. Were you shooting in cold wheather?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:06:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:06:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 3:07:29 AM EST by CAMPYBOB]
Top Top