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Posted: 5/3/2004 9:51:40 AM EDT
I'm 19 and want to know why so many things are restricted to 21 y/o and older? I can't drink, buy a handgun/handgun ammo. All NFA firearms are resrticted, for my purchuse. Alot of websites that sell ammo reguire you to be 21 or older. I thought you are an adult at 18, with this came all rights and privilages, I could be wrong.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:55:55 AM EDT
Because even a lot 21 y/o's still do a lot of dumb stupid kid shit!....

now say that a 18 y/o does something stupid......would you feel good about throwing the switch on a kid?....most people would not...

Im not saying it is right, But Im starting to get to the point that the kids now a days should not even get drivers Lic's until 18....

Just me....
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:57:15 AM EDT
Because at 20 you are still a dumbass....also at 30 for that matter.

SGtar15
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:57:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SilentStalker:
I thought you are an adult at 18, with this came all rights and privilages,



The term you are looking for is "incrementalism".
Say kids can't own them and you try and destroy the next generation of shooters.


It pissed me off too. So when I was 20 I bought a USP .45F. Or actually, my father bought an HK USP .45F and then transferred it to me, which is legal in PA without paperwork. Then I gave my dad a couple hundred bucks for his half birthday.


Link Posted: 5/3/2004 9:59:27 AM EDT
Around here its 18 to buy alcohol up to 22%, 20 years for more.

18 to drive

15 to purchase a firearm (With a parents consent)

Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:00:31 AM EDT
This is all bullshit.

If 18 is old enough to:

A. be legally charged as an adult
B. be drafted during war and fight as an adult

Then you are old enough to own a gun, drink, and do anything else that an adult citizen may do. Come on anyone arguing otherwise is being pretty disingenuous.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:11:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:
This is all bullshit.

If 18 is old enough to:

A. be legally charged as an adult
B. be drafted during war and fight as an adult

Then you are old enough to own a gun, drink, and do anything else that an adult citizen may do. Come on anyone arguing otherwise is being pretty disingenuous.



You can be legally charged as an adult at a much younger age then 18. And you don't have to be 18 to join the service. (unless that changed recently).

But I ubnderstand what you are trying to say, the legal ages for driving, smoking, drinking, and gun ownership should all be raised to 21.

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:15:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:
Because even a lot 21 y/o's still do a lot of dumb stupid kid shit!....

now say that a 18 y/o does something stupid......would you feel good about throwing the switch on a kid?....most people would not...

Im not saying it is right, But Im starting to get to the point that the kids now a days should not even get drivers Lic's until 18....

Just me....


Here in Kali-fornia, people who are <18 have a restricted driver's license. They must drive alone and only between certain times. I can't say I would blame the concern. I've seen newbie drivers do some real stupid $hit. Me as a parent, I'm super concern about alcohol and automobiles, and not so much about guns.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:16:12 AM EDT
I was no more "adult like" @ 21 than I was @ 18. I attribute it to my parents. They did one hell of a job. But if I can be sent off to die because of some UN mandate, I am sure as hell going to get completely trashed before I ship out. Course the point is moot now that I am 22.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:20:53 AM EDT
Don't know about yall, but I have my provisional drivers license and I'm 17, about to turn 18 in a few months. (I'll be 18 when the ban expires though, YASE!)

Actually, my provisional drivers license expired and now I have an unrestricted drivers license. I can carry more than 2 people in the car, be out before 6 and after 12.

Ben
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:22:41 AM EDT
Grow up, kid.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:25:36 AM EDT
I don't understand how they came to 21


Why not 20 or 22?



I guess odd numbers just bother me.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:28:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:
This is all bullshit.

If 18 is old enough to:

A. be legally charged as an adult
B. be drafted during war and fight as an adult

Then you are old enough to own a gun, drink, and do anything else that an adult citizen may do. Come on anyone arguing otherwise is being pretty disingenuous.




Call it what you want!...I think that until you are 25 you are a f-ing clueless tard for the most part!...(we all had to go through it) as for your little "Be drafted during war and fight as an adult" ....Horse shit!...You still have to go throug Basic/Bootcamp to learn the team work skills and respect for the guy next to you.... I would say that the last 10 years has put some turd kids on the streets because mommy and daddy fail'd ya, and did not teach you that!...Now you get to learn about how it is O.K. if two guys stroke eachother off, and that it is not "Sex" if you only stick it in her butt....
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:29:10 AM EDT
They had to pick an age and that was it. Used to be men could be drafted at 18 but couldn't VOTE until 21. Now that's wacky.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:31:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:
This is all bullshit.

If 18 is old enough to:

A. be legally charged as an adult
B. be drafted during war and fight as an adult

Then you are old enough to own a gun, drink, and do anything else that an adult citizen may do. Come on anyone arguing otherwise is being pretty disingenuous.

... and anyone under 21 whinging about the situation is an impatient little twat.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:32:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2004 10:34:56 AM EDT by SilentStalker]
Who is anyone to tell me that because of my age, I am less of a citizen. Does the second amendment only apply to me when the government permits it? If so, then it is no longer a right but a privilege. Is the 2nd amendment a privilege? As for things like alcohol, if I can be drafted, sent off to some third world shithole, then I should be able to drink, drive (no not both at the same time), and anything else that is currently restricted. Vietnam gave us voting rights; maybe we can get the rest of our freedoms with this campaign.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:35:34 AM EDT

But I ubnderstand what you are trying to say, the legal ages for driving, smoking, drinking, and gun ownership should all be raised to 21.



Yeah! Finally someone else that agrees with me.
I also find it a little stupid to say that you can be trusted to carry a rifle in service to your country, but NOT in your own defense.
You can be trusted to vote about the future of the country, but can't be trusted to sip a little alcohol.

Frankly, I don't care what the age limit is,make it 40 for all I care, I just wish they were all the SAME! At least then it would make sense. Right or wrong, it would make sense.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:35:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R-32:
Because even a lot 21 y/o's still do a lot of dumb stupid kid shit!....



and I know alot of 30+ year olds who still do dumb stupid kid shit, should we raise the drinking age to 50?
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:36:50 AM EDT
If a government starts basing rights on age, then they can change that age requriement as they see fit and which rights it applies to.

I can see it now:

"Officer, I demand to see a warrent before you search my house!"
"Well, you see pal, you're under 30, so we don't need one, you irresponsible whining prick."
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:44:21 AM EDT
Boy, I didn't realize there were so many tyrant wanna-be's on ARFCOM.

If you are old enough to pay taxes, you are old enough to have a say in what is done with the money (voting.)

If you are old enough to be handed the keys to a Bradley Fighting Vehicle then you're old enough to have a beer.

If you're old enough to leave the house without your mommy then you're old enough to defend yourself.

If you're old enough to have children and a mortgage then you're old enough to tell the little Napolians in this thread to fuck off.

I've seen plenty of 40-year-olds that are a menace to the interstates....so what? This is all based on fear and thought crime. Arbitray lines drawn by brainless twits with nothing better to do then try to control others. "Someone MIGHT do something...." "We can't just let ANYONE do this..."

Puh-leeeze! That kind of thinking is what leads to such statements as "only police should have guns."

Grow-up and mind your own business.

Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:49:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:
This is all bullshit.

If 18 is old enough to:

A. be legally charged as an adult
B. be drafted during war and fight as an adult

Then you are old enough to own a gun, drink, and do anything else that an adult citizen may do. Come on anyone arguing otherwise is being pretty disingenuous.



In California you can be charged as an adult at age 13. I guess I'm just disingenous and think that we really don't need more 13 year olds drinking and driving. I am old enough to remember the draft. At age 18 you can volunteer to serve your country and get to use real weapons - 120 mm canons, tanks ....
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:54:58 AM EDT
Incrementalisim is right...

Also, IMHO the drinking age should be 24, not 21.

Link Posted: 5/3/2004 10:59:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:
This is all bullshit.

If 18 is old enough to:

A. be legally charged as an adult
B. be drafted during war and fight as an adult

Then you are old enough to own a gun, drink, and do anything else that an adult citizen may do. Come on anyone arguing otherwise is being pretty disingenuous.



I don't see it as being disengenuous at all. Being drafted means following instructions and orders under disciplned and controlled cirsumstances for a long time before you're just given a loaded rifle and dropped into a battle zone.

Tusting an unsupervised 18 year-old individual with booze and firearms without any training seems like a totally different matter. It's an apples vs. oranges comparison, although people never seem to tire of bringing it up.

Personally, the thought of 16 year-old boys and girls being allowed to drive terrifies me!
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 11:01:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Incrementalisim is right...

Also, IMHO the drinking age should be 24, not 21.




That's not going far enough! We should ban it totally! That would solve all the drinking problems better than just a tiny three year increase in age limits!
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 11:03:48 AM EDT
When you are young you can't age fast enough.

When you are old you can't age slow enough.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 11:04:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:
This is all bullshit.

If 18 is old enough to:

A. be legally charged as an adult
B. be drafted during war and fight as an adult

Then you are old enough to own a gun, drink, and do anything else that an adult citizen may do. Come on anyone arguing otherwise is being pretty disingenuous.




A) We don't draft anymore.

B) No one holds a gun to your head forcing you to join the military.

C) I know of lots of 15-16 year olds who were charged & convicted as adults.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 11:09:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Incrementalisim is right...
Also, IMHO the drinking age should be 24, not 21.



Just bring back the prohibition...

I have no problem with the age limits on shit but that's because I'm old enough now. When I was underaged I would piss and moan and use all the same arguments... and that just shows me how mature I was compared to now. I know for a fact that my maturity level at 18 to 21 was a jump, and it has jumped even more in the last 8.5 years... to the point where I look back and wonder how I could have been such a fucking cry baby about certain things, like drinking and owning guns. At 18 I didn't have the fiscal responsibility to keep gas in my car, let along own a damn gun. If I had the money and could legally own a gun at 18 I probably would have gotten myself in a whole heap of trouble.

It's like, "Why do cats have tails?" They just do... and that's the way it is.

So deal with it, KID. If you want to be able to walk around with a gun and drink move to Iraq or Israel... I see kids there with guns all the time when I watch the news. You probably wouldn't know that since they don't show news on Cartoon Network.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 11:09:56 AM EDT
If we must have a base line of 21, then we also need a cap. Lets say 65; old people are just too frail and senile to be permitted to have rights.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 11:10:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2004 11:11:30 AM EDT by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Incrementalisim is right...

Also, IMHO the drinking age should be 24, not 21.




That's not going far enough! We should ban it totally! That would solve all the drinking problems better than just a tiny three year increase in age limits!



The idea is to keep them from doing it en-masse in public till after they have the chance to finish a 4yr degree... Since college has become as essential as high school, after all...

No more booze-induced riots in Madison & similar, 'binge drinking' issues drop to a high-school level (both because you can no longer gather in public to get drunk, you have to avoid getting busted), and it's easier to control (no booze on campus. period. you're all too young)...

Course, it would wreak havoc on the economies of small college towns like Whitewater WI...
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 11:23:37 AM EDT
i'm not gonna jump into this little fray, but i'll offer some history as to why it's 21 for alchol, and not 18. The federal goverment "suggested" to the states that they make the alchol laws 21 and up, the states however make the final decision, the way the federal goverment gurantees that the states keep the drinking age at 21 is by holding there federal funding over their head. If a state lowers the drinking age then the federal goverment pulls its funding. I believe several states tested this and did have their federal highway money pulled, but i could be wrong.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 11:50:52 AM EDT
My friend, I feel your pain for I was there myself. I can still remember wearing the uniform of my countries military and not legally able to buy a beer. I also remember many of those not able to buy a beer coming home in a box.

To me it has always been a simple formula"

Old enough to serve, old enough to be served.

Tj
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 11:58:27 AM EDT
If any of you guys are old enough to remember when the voting age was lowered to 18, the 18 year old voters thought that since they old enough to vote, they were old enough to drink. The drinking age was lowered in most states to 18.

Then all hell broke loose. Drunken driving accidents went through the roof for the 16-20 year old group. So Uncle Sam jumped in and told the states to increse the drinking age to 21 or lose federal highway dollars. So guess what? The drinking age was increased to 21 because 18 -21 year olds acted like bone heaads.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 11:59:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
My friend, I feel your pain for I was there myself. I can still remember wearing the uniform of my countries military and not legally able to buy a beer. I also remember many of those not able to buy a beer coming home in a box.

To me it has always been a simple formula"

Old enough to serve, old enough to be served.

Tj



I would have my doubts that any bar run by people who support the troops would card you if you walked in there, after serving in OEF/OIF, wearing your A's with a combat patch and such. If the house didn't buy you one there would no doubt be a few people who would be honored to have a drink with you. But you're not, SilentStalker, so it doesn't matter....
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 12:09:45 PM EDT
ok, so we have established that 18-21 can not be trusted with alcohol, (I feel its beside the point but oh well) but what about the issue of age restrictions for particualar firearms. I can be trusted with an AR, but I could hurt someone with a .45 or an M16?
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 12:10:14 PM EDT
^Can't agree with TJ more.

In MI, I can buy a pistol privately at age 18. However, I can't buy from a dealer until I'm 21. (regardless of purchase age, handguns still have to be registered.)
I can sign the papers to join the army at age 17, with a parent's permission. But after doing so, that essentially makes one an adult. (i signed @ 18).
If you're old enough to wear the uniform If you wear the uniform, the rights entitled to the 'enlightened' people should be yours.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 12:10:40 PM EDT

The reason the drinking age is 21 is because the state profits from all the drinking tickets they give to kids. They also get to give alot more DUI's, because here in zero tolerance IL, all you have to do is blow a .000000000001 and you go to jail and pay a massive fine.

Link Posted: 5/3/2004 12:11:45 PM EDT
You can still buy an AR15 when you are 18 and still purchase rifle ammo. who needs a gun at 18 when you can own a ar15 at 19
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 12:12:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2004 12:15:02 PM EDT by TomJefferson]

Originally Posted By jsmith48:
The reason the drinking age is 21 is because the state profits from all the drinking tickets they give to kids. They also get to give alot more DUI's, because here in zero tolerance IL, all you have to do is blow a .000000000001 and you go to jail and pay a massive fine.




LOL, sadly there is probably more truth in this than not.

Tj


BTW, worth mentioning is though your local liquer store cares alot about our age, you local drug pusher does not. Scary thought.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 12:22:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rip_Roarin_Wacko:
If any of you guys are old enough to remember when the voting age was lowered to 18, the 18 year old voters thought that since they old enough to vote, they were old enough to drink. The drinking age was lowered in most states to 18.

Then all hell broke loose. Drunken driving accidents went through the roof for the 16-20 year old group. So Uncle Sam jumped in and told the states to increse the drinking age to 21 or lose federal highway dollars. So guess what? The drinking age was increased to 21 because 18 -21 year olds acted like bone heaads.



Well thats what will happen when you give people access to something that requires responsibility for the first time in their lives, its not an age issue. Much like if we legalized drugs, there would be a rise in accidents and death since people would get to hyped up and overindulge in their new found right to get fucked up. This issue is a problem with society, not "hooligan youth up to no good tom foolery".
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 12:27:39 PM EDT
i used to feel the same way. then i turned 30. now i understand it.

mike
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 1:51:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:
This is all bullshit.

If 18 is old enough to:

A. be legally charged as an adult
B. be drafted during war and fight as an adult

Then you are old enough to own a gun, drink, and do anything else that an adult citizen may do. Come on anyone arguing otherwise is being pretty disingenuous.



Nice vocabulary. Now try on arrogant for size.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 2:05:15 PM EDT
Unless your the Olson twins, 18 don't mean crap
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 2:20:38 PM EDT
You wont catch me saying that people are too young at that piont, because that is an over generlization.

Moreover, if you are deemed responsible enough to drive a 4000lb. piece of steel which can travel in excess of 100MPH, you should be able to do whatever else you want which does not infringe upon others rights.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 2:23:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2004 2:32:09 PM EDT by 1776]

Originally Posted By SilentStalker:
Who is anyone to tell me that because of my age, I am less of a citizen. Does the second amendment only apply to me when the government permits it? If so, then it is no longer a right but a privilege. Is the 2nd amendment a privilege? As for things like alcohol, if I can be drafted, sent off to some third world shithole, then I should be able to drink, drive (no not both at the same time), and anything else that is currently restricted. Vietnam gave us voting rights; maybe we can get the rest of our freedoms with this campaign.



Your analogy is flawed.

So basically you are saying the requirement to AT LEAST go to boot camp if you want a handgun before 21? I guess I can live with that. Go join up and I will see what I can do.

You haven't been drafted
You haven't been sent to a shit hole,have you? Apparently not because I GUARANTEE you would be able to drink there. So whats stopping you? You wanna drink and shoot weapons? Go join up and go to the shit hole. Alot of people your age take the plunge. Stand up and just do it. After all, you are the one comparing all this to military service.

Vietnam gave you voting rights? hmmm never heard of that one. I kinda thought it was 26th Amendment

Bottom line is 99% of kids under 25 are to frigging dumb to pour piss outta boots with the instructions on the heel. So a compromise of 21 was made to shut the crybabies up.

Link Posted: 5/3/2004 2:25:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
My friend, I feel your pain for I was there myself. I can still remember wearing the uniform of my countries military and not legally able to buy a beer. I also remember many of those not able to buy a beer coming home in a box.

To me it has always been a simple formula"

Old enough to serve, old enough to be served.

Tj




Yeah but the trick is you gotta serve first. IMO
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 2:34:02 PM EDT
dont get me started on the curse of the age limits.
like who the hell decided 18 was a magic number for consent in some states were as its as low as 12 in others. Same basic prinicpal i guess the .gov pulled a magic number out of there ass and said "ok by this age your responsible"

remember for a long time it was 21 to vote also.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 2:39:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2004 2:40:09 PM EDT by 1776]

Originally Posted By cyrax777:
dont get me started on the curse of the age limits. 18 was the magic number
"ok by this age your responsible"




NEVER BY ANY stretch has ANYONE EVER said at 18 you are responsible.


Thanks I needed a good laugh.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 2:46:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2004 2:46:28 PM EDT by cyrax777]

Originally Posted By 1776:

Originally Posted By cyrax777:
dont get me started on the curse of the age limits. 18 was the magic number
"ok by this age your responsible"




NEVER BY ANY stretch has ANYONE EVER said at 18 you are responsible.


Thanks I needed a good laugh.

Your welcome

its more of a blanket statment wasnt really intending it as a statment of fact . more of a blanket adress that were now adults via this magic number instead of maturity. maybe it was a bad choice of words I dont know .
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 2:48:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1776:
Bottom line is 99% of kids under 25 are to frigging dumb to pour piss outta boots with the instructions on the heel. So a compromise of 21 was made to shut the crybabies up.



So are you one of those creepy old dudes who sits on your patio all day long pointing your finger at teenagers while giving them dirty looks for no other reason than you think they are up to no good solely because of their youth?

Link Posted: 5/3/2004 3:21:48 PM EDT
You go to fight for this country under 21 and I believe you should be able to drink.

You can vote at age 18 and you should be able to have a drink IMHO. I hear talk of wanting to reduce the voting age but you will not hear that about other topics such as these.

Talks like these can make my head hurt. You can go and blow away people for this country with weapons that a civilian in the USA cannot own. You can detain people in their own lands with the blessing of our government at age 18 but how dare you even think you are able to handle a beer or a .22 on this country's soil. For that fact, even have a beer and watch a stripper at the same time!!!
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 3:25:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tuukka:
Around here its 18 to buy alcohol up to 22%, 20 years for more.

18 to drive

15 to purchase a firearm (With a parents consent)




Wish that I was raised in Finland
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