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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/5/2005 6:19:23 PM EDT
I just moved into a new house with a well so I had a local Water Treatment co. come out and test the water. Looks like I have lots of sand, a dissolved iron rating of 4 and a water hardness rating of 10. The product this particular place sells is KINETICO, I have a RAIN SOFT rep coming out in the morning and I know that there are others such as Culligan, Sears, home depot brand etc.

I figure before I decide and slap down the big bucks id post here and get some feedback. If you have a whole house system or know someone that does Id appreciate any insight or info you could provide on the good, the bad and the ugly when it comes to purchasing and dealing with a water treatment system. This is the first time i've been on a well and I know nothing about it. All I know is that I'm in a new place and I can't wash clothes or drink the water until this little problem gets rectified. I ran the water in the garden tub last night and the whole bottom is now covered in sand...it's a real mess.

TIA, DD out!!
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 6:58:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 6:59:50 PM EDT by TRW]
I have a UV unit to kill bacteria, a big blue whole house water filter for sediment removal, and a Culligan water softener for the minerals. It all works pretty good.

The big blue does a good job of filtering out sediment. Sounds like you have a lot though. Expect to have to change the filters pretty frequently though. Not sure if 4 is high for iron though. I hope not.

All in all, if sand is the worst of your problems you are lucky. It could be worse, I know people that have to deal with sulphury smells or high iron content.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:13:29 PM EDT
I got quoted $4000.00 and some change for a Kinetico Sand Seperator to remove the sand and a Kinetico filter/softener to take care of the dissolved iron content and hardness in the water. Does that seem high?

Thanks, DD out!!
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:20:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 9:13:28 PM EDT
What salts to you guys use in your softeners?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 9:26:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 9:30:11 PM EDT by krpind]
Ok if your problem is sand, try two things first.

Raise the foot valve up 5 or 10 feet, and see if this helps. The other thing is try running your water for several hours outside, then fill the tub. and see if this diminishes the amount of sand in the tub.

That much sand is going to be a problem for any filter system.

ETA, this is a business I am currently expanding into.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:46:07 AM EDT
I have a softener on my system, but all I have to deal with is just hardness.

If you have to deal with sand, you will need a sediment filter. This filter will have to be placed before any other filters. A water softener will not take out iron. An iron filter will.

I built my house, and I just bought a water softener from Grainger. It was like $500 bucks. Put it in myself. I figured that if it went bad after a couple of years, I could just replace it rather than spend 2K to have some guy put one it.

One thing, make sure that your house is plumbed for a water softener. There has to be some changes made in the plumbing. You don't want to water the lawn with soft water.

Good luck
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:39:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 338winmag:
I have a softener on my system, but all I have to deal with is just hardness.

If you have to deal with sand, you will need a sediment filter. This filter will have to be placed before any other filters. A water softener will not take out iron. An iron filter will.

I built my house, and I just bought a water softener from Grainger. It was like $500 bucks. Put it in myself. I figured that if it went bad after a couple of years, I could just replace it rather than spend 2K to have some guy put one it.

One thing, make sure that your house is plumbed for a water softener. There has to be some changes made in the plumbing. You don't want to water the lawn with soft water.

Good luck




That is a good point, I never thought of that. Is softened water bad for the grass?

The Rain soft guy is coming out today to give me his spiel. The old lady want's to start showering, cooking and washing clothes in her new house so I need to make a decision and get something installed ASAP. I wish I had looked into all of this sooner so I had more time to research and make a more informed decision.

Thanks for all the info.

DD out!!
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:34:42 AM EDT
Soft water will kill most houseplants and your grass if used as the sole watering source. So you'll need to do something with the plumbing (plumb a takeoff before the softener or run a dedicated line outside) so you can get non-softened water.

Report back on your findings since I'm also looking into something for our new house.

By way of comparison our last softener was a GE system from Homedepot that ran about $600, my neighbour and I installed it in the garage for about $100. The electronics on the GE system were very cheap though and broke twice in about 4 years. Both were replaced under warranty but doesn't say much for the design.

Agreeing with the other poster, you definitely need a sand/sediment filter for the particulates and I would have your water checked for iron content since if you don't really need iron removal it would be a little cheaper as well.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 11:11:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Observer:
Soft water will kill most houseplants and your grass if used as the sole watering source. So you'll need to do something with the plumbing (plumb a takeoff before the softener or run a dedicated line outside) so you can get non-softened water.

Report back on your findings since I'm also looking into something for our new house.

By way of comparison our last softener was a GE system from Homedepot that ran about $600, my neighbour and I installed it in the garage for about $100. The electronics on the GE system were very cheap though and broke twice in about 4 years. Both were replaced under warranty but doesn't say much for the design.

Agreeing with the other poster, you definitely need a sand/sediment filter for the particulates and I would have your water checked for iron content since if you don't really need iron removal it would be a little cheaper as well.



You know, water softeners will only treat so many gallons before they need regenerating. If you water your lawn, you will use up most if not all of your soft water. The plumbing in the house needs to be altered so that the outside faucets are hard water, and the inside plumbing is soft.
One other thing, don't let them tell you that "their softener will take out iron. Only a greensand filter will do that. Iron will fuck up a softener. Have several people test the water. Get a written copy of the test. When the numbers turn up the same, then you probably have an accurate test. I am not saying to not trust anyone, but there are some scamming motherfucker in this business.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:42:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 5:43:54 PM EDT by DDMAO]
Well the Rainsoft guy came out and did his testing. Same deal, hard water with a little bit of dissolved iron and some sand/sediment.

Here is what he recommended

1. www.rainsoft.com/products/pr_amazon.html - This unit will soften the water and removed the dissolved iron and sediment present in the water.

2. www.rainsoft.com/products/pr_ultrefiner.html - This unit is a RO (Reverse Osmosis) system that will sit under the kitchen sink and provide pure drinking water at the sink via a separate faucet. It will also be connected to the refrigerator so you have pure drinking water on the door and good ice cubes.

3. The third piece of gear is a second redundant filter that will capture any sand or sediment that may get past the first filter system. It is not listed on the website.

The dealer also agreed to modify my existing plumbing and give me on and off valves for my hose bibs which will allow me to choose well water for watering the lawn and switch back to soft water to wash the cars.

All equipment has a lifetime warrenty with the exception of the electonics which has a 5 year warranty with an additional pro-rated 5 year warranty.

Total price out the door $3900.00

Does this sound like a good deal or should I opt for the Kinetico which gives me the following.

1. Kinetico Sand seperator (removes sand/sediment) before it hits the filter system.

2. Kinetico Filter system (removes dissolved iron and softens the water)

No RO (Reverse Osmosis) system for drinking water included on this deal.

No modification of plumbing for hose bibs.

10 year warranty on everything

$4200.00 and change

What do you guys think???

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:28:44 PM EDT
The softner runs water through a resin bed. Looks like brown beads about the size of #6 shot. It replaces the calcium ion with a sodiun ion. That's why you have a brine tank to 'recharge' it. They will remove SMALL amounts of iron and if you use the salt with the iron remover in it, you should be able to get away with it.

There is no way I'd want the amount of sand you are seeing in that softner. I'd guess it would fubar it in a short amount of time meaing you'd have to replace the resin bed. If the dealer even does that anymore. I'd say you need the sediment filter first. I'd also start checking with the neighbors and see if they have a sand problem. If the problem is the well (foot valve on bottom, casing issue whatever) you need to find out sooner rather than later.

Unless the water has a bad taste, I'd bag the RO stuff and the associated maintenance.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:41:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 6:45:08 PM EDT by DDMAO]

Originally Posted By Tallbob:
The softner runs water through a resin bed. Looks like brown beads about the size of #6 shot. It replaces the calcium ion with a sodiun ion. That's why you have a brine tank to 'recharge' it. They will remove SMALL amounts of iron and if you use the salt with the iron remover in it, you should be able to get away with it.

There is no way I'd want the amount of sand you are seeing in that softner. I'd guess it would fubar it in a short amount of time meaing you'd have to replace the resin bed. If the dealer even does that anymore. I'd say you need the sediment filter first. I'd also start checking with the neighbors and see if they have a sand problem. If the problem is the well (foot valve on bottom, casing issue whatever) you need to find out sooner rather than later.

Unless the water has a bad taste, I'd bag the RO stuff and the associated maintenance.



Bob, thanks for the input sir. Judging by your remarks, it seems I would be right on going with the Kinetico rep.

His quote had a sand/sediment filter first, then the double tank filter. He also recommended that I bypass the RO system since the taste of the water is just fine. The only negative thing I can say about the Kinetico system is the price. $4200.00 for two pieces of gear is a lot of cash.

One thing about the Rain soft. They give a lifetime warranty on their resin beds. So, if the sand screws it up, wouldn't that be covered?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:59:27 PM EDT
Hey, I'm old and technology changes . See if you can get a copy of the warranty and read it close looking for their loop holes. ie, the resin bed could be fine but the softner is plugged. Do they have an 'escape clause' for that? If they are willing to bumper to bumper it in writing...have at it!

Yeah, know what you mean about the cash. Last place I had with a well, I had to put in an iron filter ahead of the softner. I went cheap on the iron filter and had to manually back flush it when the pressure would start to drop. PITA I was house poor in those days.

Have any 'Norm Abrams' type friends? Maybe find something at Grainger and DIY?
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 1:47:57 PM EDT
I have Kinetico softener and like it alot. One big advantage it has over other systems is that it recharges itself whenever it needs to without shutting off water to the house.
On the down side, the Kinetico rep in my area is a total flake as are all of his service people. I ended up doing all the maintainence on it because I don't want those idiots touching the equipment. They also over charge for everything.
Routine maintainence is easy and filters are available on the web. Other companies can do major servicing if you ever need it.
Ask for references and call every one they give you.

Good Luck!
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