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Posted: 5/8/2004 2:38:21 AM EST
So many to choose from !
Who were the best Archers of all time?
Range, Accuracy, Speed and just overall raw skill as a whole.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:40:40 AM EST
roben hood?
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:53:30 AM EST
English longbowmen.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:54:23 AM EST
English longbowmen were imo the best at longrange and accuracy. If all the dead french could speak they would tell you. The Huns could shoot from a horse running full tilt and still hit their mark. It's a toss up between the two imo.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 3:47:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 4:03:31 AM EST by vito113]
English Longbowmen, they were a 'weapon of mass destruction' in the middle ages.
They slaughtered the French Knights by the thousands. In five minutes at the Battle of Crecy the English archers loosed more than 30,000 arrows and 1500 French knights and their squires were cut down by peasant archers paid six pence a day, the mounted knight was out of business. One contemporary source says "the arrows fell like snow".

An archer was expected to shoot 12 aimed shots per minute out to 200yds, more in volley fire. How powerful was the English Longbow? A standard 'proof test' of the time was that an arrow should penetrate a 4" oak plank by at least 'one handspan'…6".

There is still a Law on the statute books here in England about owning and using a Bow…

King Edward IV introduced a law requiring every Englishman between 16 and 60 years of age to own a longbow of his own height, and to practise every Sunday after attending church and on feast days on butts set up by the township. It was never repealed.

Andy



Link Posted: 5/8/2004 3:50:58 AM EST
For all around fighting skill with a bow, I'd have to say the Plains Indian of North America. These primative people fought modern armies and held their own for almost 100 years.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 3:51:27 AM EST
Probably modern dudes with nice compound bows.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:06:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:08:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 4:11:03 AM EST by innocent_bystander]
For never was there an archer so good,

to which they called him Robin Hood.



I seriously think the Chinese and later the Japanese were probably the best.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:12:58 AM EST
CUPID draw back your bow
And let your arrow go
Straight to my lover's heart
For me-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:15:42 AM EST
Samurai bowman could hit objects half a mile or more away. This is directly from the history channel special. Close range mounted, they were also effective. The Huns had their recurve bows that were very compact and extremely effective.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:17:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sweep:
William Tell?



He was a crossbowman, and i'll bet his son was permanently mentally scared after his dads apple shooting stunt.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:17:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 4:29:42 AM EST by Noname]
Interesting stuff...



The Longbow

As the name implies, the longbow was generally longer in length than the common bow. The bow length was usually the height of the archer with the arrow length half that. By virtue of its greater length and bowstring span, the long bow let fly a more powerful arrow over greater distances. Longbows were simple bows, meaning they were constructed of a single material (wood, preferably yew with elm as a substitute). Associated almost exclusively with the Welsh and English during medieval Europe, the long bow was particularly responsible for revolutionizing the way in which large scale combat was conducted: in the first three organized employments of the long bow, at the battles of Crecy, Poitiers, and Agincourt, English longbowmen decimated the French ranks several hundred yards away. Forced to dismount and cover the distance to the English lines on foot, exhausted French knights in full plate armour proved little match for the waiting English soldiers. For the first time since the days of the Roman legions, the foot soldier once again ruled the battlefield.

Some very interesting historical notes about the longbow...

The V symbol (for Victory, and now Peace) formed with the index and middle finger, palm outward, popularized by Winston Churchill during WWII, has a very different connotation in Britain when formed with the back of the hand toward the target of the symbol. English longbow men of the Middle Ages gave the V-symbol, palm facing inward, its significance as an insult. At the battle of Agincourt, the English longbowmen wreaked havoc upon the French knights. As a result, from that point forward, the French would cut off the index and middle finger of any English archer they captured; this would prevent the archer from ever drawing a bowstring again. In response to the French practice, English longbowmen would flaunt their intact index and middle fingers at their French adversaries from across the battlefield in future conflicts, and thus the symbol derives its very insulting nature among modern day British culture. Also the phrase "put your back into it" also comes from the Middle Ages, when training the young longbowmen would be told to "put your back into it" because when drawing the bowstring you would need extremely strong back muscles for drawing the 100 plus pounds of pressure.
The longbow was not a weapon for the weak-hearted or weak-armed. As mentioned the bowstring itself required in upwards of 100 pounds of pressure to draw it, let alone aim it properly. Further, English archers were required to hit a man-sized target with their arrows at more than 200 yards distance. While a great weapon in and of itself, the longbow was even more deadly in the hands of a skilled archer.





The phrase “to draw a bead on someone,” meaning to take aim at them, derived from archers during medieval Europe. The Longbow string had a bead attached to its centre where the arrow should be notched. By “drawing the bead” back, the archer prepared to shoot at a target.




An interesting historical footnote about the crossbow: in 1139 the Pope decreed crossbows to be too murderous for “Christian warfare” and directed an interdict against them. Naturally, he still encouraged their use against infidels. Richard the Lionheart disobeyed the edict and continued to employ crossbowmen in his armies. To the amused sense of irony for many of the period (and us), he was later killed by a crossbow bolt.




www.medieval-warfare.co.uk/

Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:24:06 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:43:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:

I seriously think the Chinese and later the Japanese were probably the best.




Yep.


5sub
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:57:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 4:57:45 AM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
Samurai bowman could hit objects half a mile or more away. This is directly from the history channel special. .



I'll think you'll find this is a japanese folk tale. Maximum realistic range for any bow against a man sized target is 200-250yds, area target… out to 400yds max. No way you could hit a target with eyesight at half a mile. The world record for a flight bow (a special ultra powerful bow fired lying on your back, fired upwards at 45 degrees and drawn using your feet) is only @1300yds.

Andy
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 5:04:21 AM EST
And another interesting fact… the term "to pick a quarrel with someone" when you are angry comes from English Archery.
A 'quarrel' was a special arrow fitted with a square head with four spikes meant to knock an armoured Knight of his horse. If you were really mad at someone you would 'pick a quarrel' from your quiver and let loose, it was like a medieval 'dum-dum' bullet against an unarmoured enemy.

Andy
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 5:06:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:
And another interesting fact… the term "to pick a quarrel with someone" when you are angry comes from English Archery.
A 'quarrel' was a special arrow fitted with a square head with four spikes meant to knock an armoured Knight of his horse. If you were really mad at someone you would 'pick a quarrel' from your quiver and let loose, it was like a medieval 'dum-dum' bullet against an unarmoured enemy.

Andy



Interesting and I did not know this factoid.



5sub
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 5:17:25 AM EST
Roy Rogers from Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Oh wait, we're talking in general...
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 5:24:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 5:34:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By Noname:
Interesting stuff...


In response to the French practice, English longbowmen would flaunt their intact index and middle fingers at their French adversaries from across the battlefield in future conflicts, and thus the symbol derives its very insulting nature among modern day British culture.



Britains Deputy Prime Miniter John Prescot demonstrates the traditional British Anti French insult…


as in F**k You…
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 5:46:32 AM EST


Some of the IBO 3-D shooters are fantastic.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 5:57:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 6:00:08 AM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By Sweep:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
Samurai bowman could hit objects half a mile or more away. This is directly from the history channel special. .



I'll think you'll find this is a japanese folk tale. Maximum realistic range for any bow against a man sized target is 200-250yds, area target… out to 400yds max. No way you could hit a target with eyesight at half a mile. The world record for a flight bow (a special ultra powerful bow fired lying on your back, fired upwards at 45 degrees and drawn using your feet) is only @1300yds.

Andy



Uh, 1300 yds + 3900 ft. Half a mile is 2640 ft. I think. Still, it'd be hard to do though.



Don Brown of the USA holds the World range record for shooting a traditional broadhead arrow with an arm drawn unlimited power Recurve Bow at 526yds. Probably a better example of the maximum realistic range of a bow… hell of a range though!

Andy
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 6:06:13 AM EST
OK,

A Quarrel is also known as a bolt, and are only shot from a Crossbow. A fine weapon if you want to shoot accurately but slower than hell and without any real range

A Modern Longbow comes in many different weights of pull, almost all measured at a draw of 28"

The majority of hunters hunting with them use in the 50-60lb range, this is not the same as a Compound bow in the same range as it is far harder to draw back th elongbow and then proceed to aim it, no letoff.

My Longbow is 80lbs at 28" I am drawing 30 inches, which means that I am drawing around 87lbs of weight. I am no Robin Hood, but more than accurate enough to take deer and elk with it at 45 yards.

What this means? very little, except that the longbows of yore were far more powerful than mine. And there is evidence of half mile plus shots with a longbow back in th emiddle ages, however, it is surmised by many that they were "hail Mary" shots, or a volley shot that got real lucky.

A recurve is nicer to shoot, but has not got the range of a longbow. If you want to see soem fun longbow shooting, go to the North American Longbow Safari, great fun, though I have not been to one in a couple years.

Oh, and Japanese Archers are extremely skilled, but damn are their bows weird
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 6:20:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 6:22:10 AM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:
OK,

A Quarrel is also known as a bolt, and are only shot from a Crossbow. A fine weapon if you want to shoot accurately but slower than hell and without any real range

A Modern Longbow comes in many different weights of pull, almost all measured at a draw of 28"

The majority of hunters hunting with them use in the 50-60lb range, this is not the same as a Compound bow in the same range as it is far harder to draw back th elongbow and then proceed to aim it, no letoff.

My Longbow is 80lbs at 28" I am drawing 30 inches, which means that I am drawing around 87lbs of weight. I am no Robin Hood, but more than accurate enough to take deer and elk with it at 45 yards.

What this means? very little, except that the longbows of yore were far more powerful than mine. And there is evidence of half mile plus shots with a longbow back in th emiddle ages, however, it is surmised by many that they were "hail Mary" shots, or a volley shot that got real lucky.

A recurve is nicer to shoot, but has not got the range of a longbow. If you want to see soem fun longbow shooting, go to the North American Longbow Safari, great fun, though I have not been to one in a couple years.

Oh, and Japanese Archers are extremely skilled, but damn are their bows weird



Another archer!

Used a 60lb recurve hunter myself for the last 25 years. Genuine English longbows are a real pleasure to shoot, but you need muscles like the Hulk for more than one or two shots. . Big bummer is that hunting with a bow is banned here in Britain… Some King banned it because all the peasants were poaching his deer.

My local archery company is into traditional bows, including those wierd Scythian and mongolian recurve bows as well as english longbows www.quicks.com
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 6:21:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 6:23:56 AM EST by pale_pony]

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By Noname:
Interesting stuff...


In response to the French practice, English longbowmen would flaunt their intact index and middle fingers at their French adversaries from across the battlefield in future conflicts, and thus the symbol derives its very insulting nature among modern day British culture.



Britains Deputy Prime Miniter John Prescot demonstrates the traditional British Anti French insult…

img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/macandy/fighters.jpg]img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/macandy/fighters.jpg
as in F**k You…



Actually, the bow was often made of the wood of the Yew tree and to shoot the arrow was also referred to as plucking yew. And when the archers flashed the "V" sign with their fingers at the French from across the battle field they would chant "Pluck Yew" which was heard by the Frenchment as "Fvck You"

and now you know the rest of the story...This is Paul Harvey pale_pony....Good Day
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 7:00:07 AM EST
Hey the Hisotry channel wouldnt lie!
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 7:11:48 AM EST
ME
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 7:20:26 AM EST
NO OUBETA...

it is I, with my trusty Martin Hatfield and homemade cedar shafts...

HAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 7:28:29 AM EST
Did somebody say Robin Hood?? I shot a couple at 40yds. Nothing like the sound of smashing carbon. Its pretty cool to get three arrows in a quarter sized group at that range. Had a buddy win a 100yd match. 3 shots no sighters. Target was a bottem of a beer can. He nailed it 2 out of 3. He used a Mathews, mine is a Oneida Black Eagle. Rack is from last archery season.

Link Posted: 5/8/2004 7:51:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 7:52:37 AM EST by oubeta]

Originally Posted By muddydog:
NO OUBETA...

it is I, with my trusty Martin Hatfield and homemade cedar shafts...

HAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa



I'm getting into making my own shafts. Just got a new longbow.

It is I

Link Posted: 5/8/2004 12:52:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:
Genuine English longbows are a real pleasure to shoot, but you need muscles like the Hulk for more than one or two shots. . Big bummer is that hunting with a bow is banned here in Britain… Some King banned it because all the peasants were poaching his deer.



A couple years ago I saw a reenactor at Warwick Castle who portrayed a medieval archer. He was in pretty good shape, because he was shooting arrows as he lectured on the role of the archer. Afterward he had us gather around as he told the story of the Battle of Agincourt. He was asking where peoplewere from, and of course the majority of people were English. He asked if there was anybody from Scotland and this one elderly man raised his hand.

He drew his dagger, pointed it at the man, and said, "The Scots fought with the French, so I'll not mourn your death, but I will ravish your woman!" Talk about being in character!

He let me try drawing his bows. I can't remember the weights, but they were heavy. I could almost get one of them to full draw.

As for the original question, it's been covered pretty well above. The legendary English longbowmen, the Samurai, and the Mongols, who had quite a reputation for being able to shoot accurattely from horseback at a full run.

As for a modern individual, my money is on Howard Hill.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 1:18:29 PM EST
Amateur traditional bowyer here. Just flat bows (better/original version of what are called longbows) from maple, red oak, and bois de' arc (hedge apple, (snake bow!)) for now, but if my arm heals I will make some more.

Military manuals have ranges at from 180 yards for weak bows to 240 yards for strong (English/Viking/Welsh) types. There were special light weight signal or whistling arrows designed to go farther, and even some types to harass an enemy at distance, but this is really a close range weapon.

I will not shoot (one does not 'fire' a bow) a game animal over 25 yards away, but have practised shooting several dozen arrows at a target maxed out (about 220 yards for my 2319's with 180 gr tips), turning around, and shooting back to the start. You can get three arrows in the air without too much trouble. Wind of any sort will move the impact dramatically. Rain (adding weight to bow limbs, string, and arrow, not to mention in-flight drag) can knock distance to half. I was hunting with some silencers (yarn bundles on the string to quiet the 'twang') and got caught in the rain. It must have added several ounces of weight because when I shot the arrow pretty much took a 90 degree turn south. Changed over to the rubber silencers after that...

Original question: Best archers.

The English were good, but nothing special (except for the fact that no other Euro country of the time would allow the peasant to have a weapon (sounds ominous!!)) as far as archery goes. The plains indians sucked big time. They could hit a target 30 feet away, and that was about it. The Cherokee were like the Vikings: loved war and had good strong bows (just no metal). Good archers, but not special. Turks had the best (mechanically and aethetically) bows, but so what. Huns, Alans, Georgians, Assyrians , yee gods... Samurai had a Zen esthetic, but I will go with the Mongols, just because.



Link Posted: 5/8/2004 1:45:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sweep:
Uh, 1300 yds + 3900 ft. Half a mile is 2640 ft. I think. Still, it'd be hard to do though.



Uh, that is the farthest anyone ever shot an arrow. It does not say he was aiming or could have hit something he was aiming at at that distance. 200-250 yards is about the max and that is a very, very long bow shot. 30- 60 yards is more like it.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 3:17:31 PM EST
Ben Pearson, John Pope, Fred Bear. I saw a video of Ben Pearson shooting a javalina that was running full speed at to city blocks with his bow! All instinctive shooters, who performed amazing feat's without sights or compounds.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:02:25 PM EST
I have shot several perfect scores and carry a 296 average for our league archery. But I'm nowhere in calss like Fred Bear and Art Young, Saxton Pope,Glenn St. Charles, and on and on.

The English longbow is very hard to master because of the heavy draw weights. That is why I only draw 60# on mine.

Getting ready for field archery to begin next weekend. Ranges are from 17ft to 80 yrds.

Always enjoy anykind of target shooting.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:58:16 PM EST
In the movie The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, Orlando Bloom (Legolas) has a scene where he fires off (if I remember) five arrows in about five seconds. I watched the scene several times and it looks pretty genuine. And pretty impressive. If what I saw wasn't special effects, then I'd have to guess that Bloom spent quite a bit of time practicing, and probably with a very skilled teacher.


Is a short-term rate of fire of one per second a realistic feat of archery?

CJ


Link Posted: 5/8/2004 5:12:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
In the movie The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, Orlando Bloom (Legolas) has a scene where he fires off (if I remember) five arrows in about five seconds. I watched the scene several times and it looks pretty genuine. And pretty impressive. If what I saw wasn't special effects, then I'd have to guess that Bloom spent quite a bit of time practicing, and probably with a very skilled teacher.


Is a short-term rate of fire of one per second a realistic feat of archery?

CJ




Sure, but it's going to be about as effective as shooting full-auto off hand (varying ranges).
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 5:19:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
In the movie The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, Orlando Bloom (Legolas) has a scene where he fires off (if I remember) five arrows in about five seconds. I watched the scene several times and it looks pretty genuine. And pretty impressive. If what I saw wasn't special effects, then I'd have to guess that Bloom spent quite a bit of time practicing, and probably with a very skilled teacher.


Is a short-term rate of fire of one per second a realistic feat of archery?

CJ





Should be doable, but not seriously aimed. You would need to be using a lightweight bow though.
English Longbowmen were expected to keep up a sustained aimed rate of 12 arrows a minute, and up to 18 per minute in indirect fire using very powerful war bows.

Andy
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 7:28:32 PM EST
Ben Franklin wanted to arm the colonials with bows. He figured thier 12+ shots per minute would be better than whatever the Brits were getting from muskets (4 per minute?). Probably wasn't that bad of an idea based on the tactics he knew the british would use as well. And bows were cheaper than guns. Take a lot more training though.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 7:30:22 PM EST
That gun off american shooter shoots asprin out of the air with a longbow
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