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Posted: 9/27/2004 8:44:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 8:48:27 AM EST by repub18]
the Electoral College system and just go to a straight vote?? Poll Coming


and why?
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:45:43 AM EST
Fuck off. Fuck your poll too. Commie bitch. ..err Commie troll.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:45:47 AM EST
uuuuum.....
no.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:45:47 AM EST
I do.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:46:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tras:
Fuck off. Fuck your poll too. Commie bitch. ..err Commie troll.




are you ok buddy?
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:46:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 8:47:07 AM EST by sgtar15]
So far that's two dummies......






Sgatr15
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:48:06 AM EST
Anyone remember the results of the popular vote in 1992?
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:48:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 8:48:55 AM EST by Scottman]

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
So far that's two dummies......



My reading shows 1 dummy. That's what [1] means, right?


And of course, after posting that, dummy 2 votes "yes." Nevermind.

"Tyranny of the Masses," anyone?
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:49:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 8:49:20 AM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:49:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tras:
Fuck off. Fuck your poll too. Commie bitch. ..err Commie troll.

+1
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:50:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Anyone remember the results of the popular vote in 1992?

shhh. away with your Pesky facts!
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:51:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 8:53:17 AM EST by repub18]

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
The Electoral College is the cornerstone of Presidential Elections.

It was probably the most original idea that the Founding Fathers came up with to firmly establish this Nation as a Republic, and NOT a pure democracy!

Thank God for Our Founding Fathers!

Eric The(HistoryIsFundamental)Hun




yeah but wasnt it put in place because the whole populace could not make a educated decision about the POTUS because there was no national News or radio back then.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:51:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
The Electoral College is the cornerstone of Presidential Elections.

It was probably the most original idea that the Founding Fathers came up with to firmly establish this Nation as a Republic, and NOT a pure democracy!

Thank God for Our Founding Fathers!

Eric The(HistoryIsFundamental)Hun

also a +1
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:51:51 AM EST
For arguments sake, if the EC is needed for President, why not then push for electoral style elections for state governors? The structure is in place, but it's a popular election.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:52:13 AM EST
No.

Historically the majority has proven itself to be one of the worst sources for freedom and justice. More votes(voters) do NOT equal better decisions.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:52:19 AM EST
Im just wondering why the Electoral Vote system is better, not trying to push my views on anyone.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:52:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By rayra:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
The Electoral College is the cornerstone of Presidential Elections.

It was probably the most original idea that the Founding Fathers came up with to firmly establish this Nation as a Republic, and NOT a pure democracy!

Thank God for Our Founding Fathers!

Eric The(HistoryIsFundamental)Hun

also a +1



+1 here too!
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:56:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
The Electoral College is the cornerstone of Presidential Elections.

It was probably the most original idea that the Founding Fathers came up with to firmly establish this Nation as a Republic, and NOT a pure democracy!

Thank God for Our Founding Fathers!

Eric The(HistoryIsFundamental)Hun



The Hunster said all that needs to be said!
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:56:41 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:56:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
For arguments sake, if the EC is needed for President, why not then push for electoral style elections for state governors? The structure is in place, but it's a popular election.




+1


I've always wondered about that.


Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:01:01 AM EST
The Electoral College is the fundamental tool that prevents the major population centers from running roughshod over the rural population. As mentioned before it promotes a Republic over a pure Democracy (AKA Mob Rule).
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:03:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR:



+1
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:04:12 AM EST
but the one thing that bugs me about the whole system is the electorates from each state dont have to vote in favor of the states winner, so they can in theory steal the election
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:05:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By DPeacher:
The Electoral College is the fundamental tool that prevents the major population centers from running roughshod over the rural population. As mentioned before it promotes a Republic over a pure Democracy (AKA Mob Rule).



You're kidding right? If this was the standard, we'd have gotten rid of the winner take all system years ago. If 50%+ of a states votes goes to one candidate, that candidate gets ALL of that states electors (except for a couple of states). Examine Cali! The elector system actually DEPRIVES rural voters of power by rendering the opposition votes immaterial.

Not to mention that the EC mirrors house districts, which is a function of population anyway...
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:06:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By JCKnife:

Originally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR:



+1




have they installed that new ignore button yet??
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:06:53 AM EST
no
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:08:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
The Electoral College is the cornerstone of Presidential Elections.

It was probably the most original idea that the Founding Fathers came up with to firmly establish this Nation as a Republic, and NOT a pure democracy!

Thank God for Our Founding Fathers!

Eric The(HistoryIsFundamental)Hun




yeah but wasnt it put in place because the whole populace could not make a educated decision about the POTUS because there was no national News or radio back then.



The national news media does not help the average voter become more educated about the cantidates for President of the United States.

Haven't you learned anything from the CBS debacle? Leave the Electoral College system in place!
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:10:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 9:11:20 AM EST by PAEBR332]

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:

Originally Posted By DPeacher:
The Electoral College is the fundamental tool that prevents the major population centers from running roughshod over the rural population. As mentioned before it promotes a Republic over a pure Democracy (AKA Mob Rule).



You're kidding right? If this was the standard, we'd have gotten rid of the winner take all system years ago. If 50%+ of a states votes goes to one candidate, that candidate gets ALL of that states electors (except for a couple of states). Examine Cali! The elector system actually DEPRIVES rural voters of power by rendering the opposition votes immaterial.

Not to mention that the EC mirrors house districts, which is a function of population anyway...



EC has NOTHING to do with House Districts. We have 19 House Districts in PA, and our electoral votes are all awarded to the winner of the state, not the winner of each of the 19 districts.

The EC was designed so that the states as states have an important role to play in the election of the President. We live in a federal republic, and the states are intended by the Founders to be important centers of power.

If people understood the basic premises of our Constitution, this question would never be asked. Unless one was seeking to fundamentally alter the nature of our nation...
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:12:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:16:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Anyone remember the results of the popular vote in 1992?


Sure.

Bill Clinton: Pop. Vote: 44,909,326
George H. W. Bush: Pop. Vote: 39,103,882
H. Ross Perot: Pop. Vote: 19,741,657

I'm not sure what that proves.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:16:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 9:17:12 AM EST by DriftPunch]

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:

Originally Posted By DPeacher:
The Electoral College is the fundamental tool that prevents the major population centers from running roughshod over the rural population. As mentioned before it promotes a Republic over a pure Democracy (AKA Mob Rule).



You're kidding right? If this was the standard, we'd have gotten rid of the winner take all system years ago. If 50%+ of a states votes goes to one candidate, that candidate gets ALL of that states electors (except for a couple of states). Examine Cali! The elector system actually DEPRIVES rural voters of power by rendering the opposition votes immaterial.

Not to mention that the EC mirrors house districts, which is a function of population anyway...




EC has NOTHING to do with House Districts. We have 19 House Districts in PA, and our electoral votes are all awarded to the winner of the state, not the winner of each of the 19 districts.

The EC was designed so that the states as states have an important role to play in the election of the President. We live in a federal republic, and the states are intended by the Founders to be important centers of power.

If people understood the basic premises of our Constitution, this question would never be asked. Unless one was seeking to fundamentally alter the nature of our nation...

I thought it was 2 (for 2 Senators)+ 1 for every house seat. I left off the 2 because it doesn't follow population?
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:16:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:
the Electoral College system and just go to a straight vote?? Poll Coming


and why?



The EC was put in for a reason, and a darn good one. Leave it alone.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:18:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 9:18:17 AM EST by motown_steve]

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Anyone remember the results of the popular vote in 1992?


Sure.

Bill Clinton: Pop. Vote: 44,909,326
George H. W. Bush: Pop. Vote: 39,103,882
H. Ross Perot: Pop. Vote: 19,741,657

I'm not sure what that proves.



PWNED!

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:18:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
If we went by true popular vote, as a citizen of the state of Georgia, I would have no voice whatsoever in electing a president, the states of California and New York would control all legistation, as it is now they still dominate what happens, but we do get some power.



How is this different from having an overpowering number of electors?
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:22:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
The Electoral College is the cornerstone of Presidential Elections.
It was probably the most original idea that the Founding Fathers came up with to firmly establish this Nation as a Republic, and NOT a pure democracy!
Thank God for Our Founding Fathers!
Eric The(HistoryIsFundamental)Hun



The original Constitutional method of picking a POTUS is my choice.....and the method of States getting their senators..............kept the govt. teat suckers from having such a loud voice.

Dave S
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:23:41 AM EST
I wish people would stop fucking with my constitution
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:27:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:
[have they installed that new ignore button yet??

Funny you should ask. If they had, plenty of folks would be mashing the one on you, now.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:27:59 AM EST
Electoral College helps:
1. keep states' rights intact
2. prevent "urban voters" from running roughshod over "rural voters"
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:29:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 9:34:33 AM EST by repub18]

Originally Posted By rayra:

Originally Posted By repub18:
[have they installed that new ignore button yet??

Funny you should ask. If they had, plenty of folks would be mashing the one on you, now.




its funny, around here it seems you cant just ask a question without being labeled a troll or a commie


I never said that it was my opinion that we should do away with them Electoral System, just trying to gain some knowledge on the matter
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:32:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 9:36:07 AM EST by Torf]

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:

Originally Posted By DPeacher:
The Electoral College is the fundamental tool that prevents the major population centers from running roughshod over the rural population. As mentioned before it promotes a Republic over a pure Democracy (AKA Mob Rule).



You're kidding right? If this was the standard, we'd have gotten rid of the winner take all system years ago. If 50%+ of a states votes goes to one candidate, that candidate gets ALL of that states electors (except for a couple of states). Examine Cali! The elector system actually DEPRIVES rural voters of power by rendering the opposition votes immaterial.

Not to mention that the EC mirrors house districts, which is a function of population anyway...



Large population centers HAVE BEEN TRYING to get rid of the electoral college for many years. Fortunately they haven't been sucessful because the FF's decided to require 2/3 vote in congress and 3/4 of the states to ratify a constitutional amendment IIRC.

Cities hate the electoral college, but can't do anything about it because the FF's decided to permanently assist the less populous centers by giving the STATES the vote and not the people. This prevents Hillary Clinton and her inifinite ranks of DUmmies from ruling your central Wyoming way of life (I know you aren't really from WY, it is just an illustration). Sounds fair to me. Take care of your own state.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:33:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 9:34:04 AM EST by wedge1082]
Very stupid idea.

Next question please.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:38:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:40:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By rayra:

Originally Posted By repub18:
[have they installed that new ignore button yet??

Funny you should ask. If they had, plenty of folks would be mashing the one on you, now.




its funny, around here it seems you cant just ask a question without being labeled a troll or a commie


It depends solely on the questions asked, actually.

Had I asked this very same question, I would just as likely be chastised for questioning the wisdom and utility of the Electoral College process by which the United States has always chosen its National Leader.

Simply put, the Electoral College protects the States, particularly the smaller, less populated States, by giving them recognition as corporate bodies that have a vital stake in the election of the President.

Remember, the Senate used to be comprised of Senators chosen by the State Legislatures in their respective States.

It was likely a mistake to remove that basis for selection.

Sorry, but I don't want to live in a nation controlled by those populous 'people's republics' on the Left and East Coasts!

Eric The(IfFirstYouDon'tSecede,Try,Try,Again)Hun




oh and I agree with you but I was just wanting to get other peoples opinons on it, like I said on my previous edited post
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:40:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
The Electoral College is the cornerstone of Presidential Elections.

It was probably the most original idea that the Founding Fathers came up with to firmly establish this Nation as a Republic, and NOT a pure democracy!

Thank God for Our Founding Fathers!

Eric The(HistoryIsFundamental)Hun



BAM!

ETH comes through with the "bingo!" post of the day

- BG
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 10:03:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By BB:
I wish people would stop fucking with my constitution



+1

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 10:06:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


The EC was put in for a reason, and a darn good one. Leave it alone.



+1
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 10:12:16 AM EST
In response to the comments expressed by Repub18:

1. You commented that the reason the EC was established was because of the lack of knowledge the common individual had about national affairs. This is no different today: a majority of people have no idea about the issues our nation is facing nor the possible solutions proposed both sides to resolve said problems.

2. We don't mean to attack you and if your feelings are hurt by people labeling you as a "Commie" or "Troll" then pack up your toys and roll on home. Furthermore, if you value the criticisms of individuals conversing over the Internet, then you may need some courses in self-confidence.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 10:35:44 AM EST
I'm neither pro nor con at this point, but nobody has shown me how the EC does anything more than give the illusion of states rights. The rural or less populated states do not fare any better with the EC, as the number of electors granted follows population anyway, and the winner takes all (on a state level) kills this argument by rendering the minority position null.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 10:41:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 10:46:05 AM EST by Torf]

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
I'm neither pro nor con at this point, but nobody has shown me how the EC does anything more than give the illusion of states rights. The rural or less populated states do not fare any better with the EC, as the number of electors granted follows population anyway, and the winner takes all (on a state level) kills this argument by rendering the minority position null.



Straight majority voting absolutely takes away the vote of the less populous areas as well, i.e. >50% wins the election. At least a smaller states votes can be won, and used in the talley, rather than diluting them all with big city votes. Sure, the liberals get all 53 in CA, but we get all the prarie and mountain states, and they add up to more than CA. Taken all together it would easily be possible for the total surplus Democrat voters to outnumber the surplus Republican voters in the other states.

The number of electors doesn't actually follow the population proportionately, but you know that already.

This has the effect of taking a little bit of voting power away from the big cities and placing it with the smaller less polulated areas. If DiFi could have gotten 51 votes "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in." she would have according to her own words. Fortunately she won't get those votes, and her rabid majority won't ever be able to fully and explicitly control those of us in fly-over country.

The electoral college isn't a simple thing to understand in it's full impact, as simple as it is, but I have come to believe that it is a very good thing.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 10:54:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
The Electoral College is the cornerstone of Presidential Elections.

It was probably the most original idea that the Founding Fathers came up with to firmly establish this Nation as a Republic, and NOT a pure democracy!

Thank God for Our Founding Fathers!

Eric The(HistoryIsFundamental)Hun



BAM!

ETH comes through with the "bingo!" post of the day

- BG



+1
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 10:54:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 10:56:16 AM EST by PennvilleBill]
Sorry for the double tap.
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