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Posted: 10/27/2004 1:31:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 1:38:44 AM EST by SorryOciffer]
I was heading home last night and was following a guy doing 15 under, when we got to a long straight stretch I punched it and flew around him. Just before I merged back in I sw a late model GMC pop out from the vehicle that was behind me and come flying up behind me as I merged back in and passed me and merged in. The next opportunity he popped back out and with a little puff of smoke he passed the guy in front of me. The damn thing just plain walked away like the guy ahead of him was standing still.

I like the dodge but they dont have the "revability" of the D-Max and Powerstroke V-8s

The allison is suposed to be a good tranny but there have been rumors of D-maxs not lasting past 150K and there are documented cases of the injectors going fast. ord had a problem with some part of the fuel system too IIRC. With the D-Max and powerstroke being newer designs with the power they have designed into them from the outset how much would one have to worry about the durability and upgrade potential of the cummins? I would assume the V-8s are a smoother, quieter engines. I have read that they require a whole less shifting in both manuals and autos due to their wider RPM band.

The Dodge auto trannies have a long history of sucking. Has this been improved with the DB tech in them now? Their NV 5600 6 sps are pretty bullit proof. The Ford 4R100 is supposed to be decent. I dont know anything about the ZF 6sp in the ford What does GM use for a manual?

I am really liking the new Dodge power wagon. It's supposed to have the HO cummins in 06 with the 6sp.

S.O.

Sorry if this looks like it was proof read by a 6 year old, I got 2 hours of sleep before I went into work last night and when I get off here at 8 I get another 2 hours before my secong job so I am kinda fried.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:35:29 AM EST
I see this thread being long, but I dont have a diesel
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:42:22 AM EST
Just found out that GM uses the ZF 6sp, as does Ford.

S.O.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:42:58 AM EST
Cummins
Powerstroke
Duramax


­in that order. The 4R100 was behind the 7.3. The 6.0 has the Torqshift, which is the best auto tranny in a domestic truck right now. The Dodge auto trannies still suck, but not so bad. The Allison is decent, but not nearly as refined as the Ford's five speed auto.

DO NOT GET the 6.0 with a ZF six speed, they break. Besides, with the Torqshift, there is no need. Trust me on this, I would kill to have that tranny in my 99 F550 at work.

Th Cummins is the most modable. Street tune up to 600 HP/1300 lb ft, race tune up to 900/1800 or so. The fastest trucks run in the 10s and a Cummins powered drag rail hit 9.3. Probably faster already, with the pace of this stuff. Cummins powered Dakota, tuned by Banks, 222 mph at Bonneville, and they towed their gear to the salt behind their race truck.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:44:42 AM EST
Cummins has a shitty powerband. Its like a tractor, stock. A Ford will kick its ass stock. Mod it and they sing a different tune. The Duramax is probably quietest, followed by Ford, then the loud Dodge.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:49:59 AM EST
Are the cumins #s you gave with a stock shortblock?...Damn.......

If I was to go dodge I would get the 6sp manual so the auto tranny thing is moot, I was just curious.Dodge will coming out with the mega cab in 06 as well. It will be the biggest crew cab made. Picture the space behind the regular cab dodge behind the back seat of the 04 ford F150 crew cab and you have the mega cab.

I am wondering though if the extra 500 or so RPM of the V-8s is worth it, if I jump on it I wanna go not spend my time shifting.

I dont like the look of the new superduty, or the old one for that matter, even if they are great trucks. Life it too short for an ugly truck.

S.O.

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:53:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By SorryOciffer:
Are the cumins #s you gave with a stock shortblock?...Damn.......

If I was to go dodge I would get the 6sp manual so the auto tranny thing is moot, I was just curious.Dodge will coming out with the mega cab in 06 as well. It will be the biggest crew cab made. Picture the space behind the regular cab dodge behind the back seat of the 04 ford F150 crew cab and you have the mega cab.

I am wondering though if the extra 500 or so RPM of the V-8s is worth it, if I jump on it I wanna go not spend my time shifting.

I dont like the look of the new superduty, or the old one for that matter, even if they are great trucks. Life it too short for an ugly truck.

S.O.




The block holds, you have to do lots of work though, especially to the head.

Hey, I really like the way the Super Duty looks, and technically speaking, excpet for the diesel engine, they lead the game right now.

You'll shift a lot, no matter what you get, unless you get an auto.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 2:00:19 AM EST
I have to assume the guy who passed me had the manual as he jumped like a jackrabbit and didn't have the manual "jerk" to it.

I like the Ford truck, I just dont like the look, been way to blocky for way to long. As far as looks...

Dodge
Chevy
Ford in that order.

I hope updated that ugly ass interior too...Very plain, reminded me of a 80s truck. The dodge has a nice interior, nothing fancy but it is contemporary and well laid out.

Gm has come a long way as far as interiors go since the last time I drove one. Still kinda bland and utilitarian but not bad.

Do most of the racers use the autos? I would assume so otherwise they gonna be shift'n fast....ALOT!


S.O.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 2:04:41 AM EST
Yeah, autos for guys who drag them run three or four thou, to hold to that power level. They are a must.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 2:28:48 AM EST
People who hot rod diesels annoy me. If I had $100 for every worn out Cummins powered Dodge I saw being driven by some kid who thought he owned a 60s vintage Mopar muscle car I could pay off my mortgage. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 3:07:51 AM EST
+1 for Cummins..they've been proven over time! I've not owned a cummins powered pickup, but the 660 series that they're putting in big trucks is plenty powerful...I drove a pete 387 with the 660 in it through the cascades pullin a 40,000 lb load, and it would pull past anything out there..
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 3:09:14 AM EST
FORD!!! Or dodge if you like replacing trannies.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 12:35:19 PM EST
If I went dodge I would go manual, For Chevy, I would go allison. I just cant get over the ugly looks of the Superduty even though it is arguably the best of the 3.

S.O.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 12:40:17 PM EST
VIN
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 12:44:04 PM EST
I wish you could spec pickups like you do semis I'd get a Ford for general relialibility with a Cummins for brute streingth and if i HAD to have an auto it would be an Alison if not it wopuld be a six speed
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 12:44:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 12:45:12 PM EST by DriftPunch]
Do not get a diesel unless you plan to work it. It kind of sucks that the US diesel market is nearly 100% horsepower focused. About half of that is honestly work related, and the other half is vanity.

I think an economy diesel with say 180 HP & 250 ft/lbs in a half ton truck would be the shit. Getting 30(estimated) in a full sized pickup would make me buy one after my current one expires. Too bad the US buyer would never accept it.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 12:47:02 PM EST

Duramax, Powerstroke, Cummis...which do you think is stronger
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 12:55:27 PM EST
If I had more time I'd hunt down some pics of trannies and ask the same question!
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 12:57:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
If I had more time I'd hunt down some pics of trannies and ask the same question!



he asked best diesel not tranny but all the manual trannies are about the same
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 12:59:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By DeadSled:
dodgetruckworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/RamNamedPuff/80842.jpg
Duramax, Powerstroke, Cummis...which do you think is stronger



You'd have a point if broken rods were actually a problem.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:00:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 1:01:41 PM EST by DeadSled]

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:

Originally Posted By DeadSled:
dodgetruckworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/RamNamedPuff/80842.jpg
Duramax, Powerstroke, Cummis...which do you think is stronger



You'd have a point if broken rods were actually a problem.



its not just rods. that pic symbolizes the way the whole engine is built
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:06:08 PM EST
Is Navistar still involved in the Ford diesels, or are they on their own?
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:11:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:
Is Navistar still involved in the Ford diesels, or are they on their own?



Navistar/International Truck and Engine Corp. builds them under contract.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:17:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 1:17:53 PM EST by astro]
I've got a 2004.5 GMC Duramax with the Allison. Plugged in a Hypertech programmer, put in a K&N, and added a 5" exhaust. It's got a 6" Fabtech susp lift and rides on 315/75/17 BFG ATs. It is a beast, and I love it.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:17:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:
Is Navistar still involved in the Ford diesels, or are they on their own?



Navistar/International Truck and Engine Corp. builds them under contract.


I don't remember. What company actually designed the engine itself?
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:23:43 PM EST
The cummins 600/610 is an amazing engine. My fathers 2500 QC is very fast with the 4-spd auto. I dont know why someone said it had a shitty powerband? Its a low revving engine, but make more power than either of the other diesels....
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:23:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
Do not get a diesel unless you plan to work it. It kind of sucks that the US diesel market is nearly 100% horsepower focused. About half of that is honestly work related, and the other half is vanity.

I think an economy diesel with say 180 HP & 250 ft/lbs in a half ton truck would be the shit. Getting 30(estimated) in a full sized pickup would make me buy one after my current one expires. Too bad the US buyer would never accept it.



I mentioned this once before on another. I think a smaller diesel (around your power specs) would be the cat's ass! If a 6.6L Duramax can get around 25MPG a smaller (maybe even V6?) diesel should easliy get 30 MPG. And if frickin diesel would go back down in price to where its less than gas (like it always used to be), it would be a great combo.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:34:45 PM EST
The truck in my avatar is an '03 F-350 7.3L Powerstroke w/4sp auto. It gets 15mpg around town, 14mpg towing and 22mpg highway.

I tested an '04 Dodge Cummins 4sp auto and it pulled nicely but there was no surge from the powerband like the V-8 diesels. If you are towing, that's not a big deal at all.

At some point I'd like to get Dodge Cummins as I think they are decent trucks now. Hopefully they'll be even better by the time I can afford another truck.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:52:38 PM EST
Go here for enough links to keep you reading until spring.

http://www.thedieselstop.com/links/index.php3

I drive a F350 4x4 diesel that gets 18 mpg around town. I think it is the best truck all around but would prefer the Cummins with the tranny behind it. I hope to swap in about a 98 year model 12 valve with the inline pump later. The Allisons have just as many problems as the rest if you read some of these links. They all are bad ass with a few mods. How many 7500 pound gas motored trucks can run low 11's and get 20 mpg?
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 3:36:38 PM EST
I envy you guys with the money to get these newer diesel pickups...but I'm satisfied with my $2,000 1984 M1010 CUCV military 4X4 ambulance with the 6.2l. I bought it with only 68,000 miles and have put 40,000 miles on it with only needing to replace an alternator. Sure it doesn't have the power as the newer diesels, or get their higher MPG, but mine is very simple to work on and much cheaper to repair without all the electronic controlled gadgets to worry about crapping out at the most inopportune time. The vehicle is about as aerodynamic as a barn but is stout with the 4.56:1 gears in a Dana 60 front and Corporate 14-bolt rearend, TH 400 tranny, NP 208 t-case and still got me 15 MPG highway on a trip out to Idaho this summer going about 53 MPH. Maybe someday I'll afford the $30,000+ more for a newer diesel truck and the full coverage vs liability insurance but it won't be anytime soon, I do enjoy reading about the newer diesels though.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 3:43:57 PM EST
Remember when this was an easy question?

I for one welcome our new diesel breathing overlords.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 3:50:06 PM EST
CUMMINS
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 4:37:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By booger-hooker:
I envy you guys with the money to get these newer diesel pickups...but I'm satisfied with my $2,000 1984 M1010 CUCV military 4X4 ambulance with the 6.2l. I bought it with only 68,000 miles and have put 40,000 miles on it with only needing to replace an alternator. Sure it doesn't have the power as the newer diesels, or get their higher MPG, but mine is very simple to work on and much cheaper to repair without all the electronic controlled gadgets to worry about crapping out at the most inopportune time. The vehicle is about as aerodynamic as a barn but is stout with the 4.56:1 gears in a Dana 60 front and Corporate 14-bolt rearend, TH 400 tranny, NP 208 t-case and still got me 15 MPG highway on a trip out to Idaho this summer going about 53 MPH. Maybe someday I'll afford the $30,000+ more for a newer diesel truck and the full coverage vs liability insurance but it won't be anytime soon, I do enjoy reading about the newer diesels though.



My buddy has an 86 CUCV pickup. He pulled the 6.2 and put in a 383 and it sits on 37s. Very cool.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 5:10:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 5:10:51 PM EST by JasonC]
Now only if Catapillar made an engine for my pickup. I love CAT engines in the Semi's I drive...
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 5:13:37 PM EST
Diesel is all the same- just home heating oil

I have a 99 ford, it is ok for the engine. brakes suck, the clutch pawl broke and bombed the whole clutch, and the elec motor that changes 4wd broke in the middle of nowhere in 2 feet of snow. other problems are cosmetic issues- bed doesn't line up perfectly with the cab, door sensors malfunction (i hate that) cup holder broke.

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 5:18:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By DeadSled:

Duramax, Powerstroke, Cummis...which do you think is stronger



Actually thats not the DMax, its from the 6.2/6.5...
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 5:20:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:
Is Navistar still involved in the Ford diesels, or are they on their own?



Navistar/International Truck and Engine Corp. builds them under contract.


I don't remember. What company actually designed the engine itself?



International, as a gas motor for the 7.3/6.9 the 6.0 is a ground up redesign as a diesel.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 5:21:55 PM EST
Vin
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 5:23:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 5:26:58 PM EST by deej86]

Originally Posted By SorryOciffer:
I was heading home last night and was following a guy doing 15 under, when we got to a long straight stretch I punched it and flew around him. Just before I merged back in I sw a late model GMC pop out from the vehicle that was behind me and come flying up behind me as I merged back in and passed me and merged in. The next opportunity he popped back out and with a little puff of smoke he passed the guy in front of me. The damn thing just plain walked away like the guy ahead of him was standing still.

I like the dodge but they dont have the "revability" of the D-Max and Powerstroke V-8s

The allison is suposed to be a good tranny but there have been rumors of D-maxs not lasting past 150K and there are documented cases of the injectors going fast. ord had a problem with some part of the fuel system too IIRC. With the D-Max and powerstroke being newer designs with the power they have designed into them from the outset how much would one have to worry about the durability and upgrade potential of the cummins? I would assume the V-8s are a smoother, quieter engines. I have read that they require a whole less shifting in both manuals and autos due to their wider RPM band.

The Dodge auto trannies have a long history of sucking. Has this been improved with the DB tech in them now? Their NV 5600 6 sps are pretty bullit proof. The Ford 4R100 is supposed to be decent. I dont know anything about the ZF 6sp in the ford What does GM use for a manual?

I am really liking the new Dodge power wagon. It's supposed to have the HO cummins in 06 with the 6sp.

S.O.

Sorry if this looks like it was proof read by a 6 year old, I got 2 hours of sleep before I went into work last night and when I get off here at 8 I get another 2 hours before my secong job so I am kinda fried.



My dad has had experience with GM's 6.2 Liter and 6.5 diesels and the 6.9 Ford with a couple work trucks, (he is a construction mechanic) in an '86, '95, and '85 1 ton truck. The '85 Ford was ok, brakes went out. The 6.2 was okay, but was a really old and mileage high truck. He had the 6.5 from 51K to 180K, and then the heads blew. GM has had problems with 6.5 heads at about 170K they start to go. He currently has a '89 Ford with the 7.3 non-turbo(Harvester). The Ford truck is currently very problematic. It is a company truck anyhow. He has heard good things about GM's Duramax, and said he would buy one if he was buying another work truck.

He says that the Harvester(Ford) and Cummins are very loud. Dodge has had problems with the transmissions, they cannot keep up with the high-torque Come-apart.

IMO the Duramax is good, or 6.5 with lower mileage.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 5:25:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By danonly:
Diesel is all the same- just home heating oil

I have a 99 ford, it is ok for the engine. brakes suck, the clutch pawl broke and bombed the whole clutch, and the elec motor that changes 4wd broke in the middle of nowhere in 2 feet of snow. other problems are cosmetic issues- bed doesn't line up perfectly with the cab, door sensors malfunction (i hate that) cup holder broke.




We lose a lot of clutchs on the heavy trucks. Fucking ZF. Of course, ZF is in the Chevy too. Never had any issues with the 4wd.

The door sensors and cup holders are crap we've dealt with. Its mostly peculiar to 99s.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 5:27:30 PM EST
deej, my fatherr used to use 6.2s and 6.5s at work. He hates them with a passion. He spent many thousands of dollars repairing them. We now use Fords exclusively.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 5:28:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By DeadSled:

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:

Originally Posted By DeadSled:
dodgetruckworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/RamNamedPuff/80842.jpg
Duramax, Powerstroke, Cummis...which do you think is stronger



You'd have a point if broken rods were actually a problem.



its not just rods. that pic symbolizes the way the whole engine is built



My point is that all are more than sufficient. I don't have any direct experience, but from my observations, most of the criticisims of the various modern diesels (not '80s GM 350 conversions) is that one has more or less power than another. I don't see much about how one is more prone to failure than another. The reliability question always begins post clutch or torque converter. Thus, the design among all brands is already above the mark where it needs to be.

A beefier rod(or other component) is a marketing answer to answer to a question not asked by the marketplace. Of course, if you plan to mod it, perhaps it will to you some good.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 5:31:11 PM EST


<---------------


Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:55:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 7:59:47 PM EST by SorryOciffer]

Originally Posted By CFII:
The cummins 600/610 is an amazing engine. My fathers 2500 QC is very fast with the 4-spd auto. I dont know why someone said it had a shitty powerband? Its a low revving engine, but make more power than either of the other diesels....



The V-8 diesels stay in the "happy zone longer" therefore requireing less shifting, usually making them quicker and being easier on components. As I understand it the V-8s have about 500rpm of useable powerband....

There is more than "beefyness" that makes a engine good, vibration reduction (balancing and blueprinting it), metalurgy, and overall design of the components is important.

Planertech, what's your beef with the Cummins?

I want one (a diesel) for a couple of reasons. I want a heavy duty truck that will last 10 years +, gets 1.5x or more the milage of a gas, and one that ........Awwww fuck it......I want it for the power....

S.O.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:58:30 PM EST
The cummins I drive, 600, has 1000 rpm of meaty powerband. The turbo spools up at 1800, and the engine beings defuling at 2800 or so. I like it so far. I do like the 6.0 PSD too.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:02:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 8:46:00 PM EST by SorryOciffer]

Originally Posted By booger-hooker:
I envy you guys with the money to get these newer diesel pickups...but I'm satisfied with my $2,000 1984 M1010 CUCV military 4X4 ambulance with the 6.2l. I bought it with only 68,000 miles and have put 40,000 miles on it with only needing to replace an alternator. Sure it doesn't have the power as the newer diesels, or get their higher MPG, but mine is very simple to work on and much cheaper to repair without all the electronic controlled gadgets to worry about crapping out at the most inopportune time. The vehicle is about as aerodynamic as a barn but is stout with the 4.56:1 gears in a Dana 60 front and Corporate 14-bolt rearend, TH 400 tranny, NP 208 t-case and still got me 15 MPG highway on a trip out to Idaho this summer going about 53 MPH. Maybe someday I'll afford the $30,000+ more for a newer diesel truck and the full coverage vs liability insurance but it won't be anytime soon, I do enjoy reading about the newer diesels though.



You know, Gale banks makes packages for the non-turbo 6.2Ls........ Stick a gear vendors OD unit behind the TH400......Sounds like you could get a nice bang for the buck...
S.O.

edited to add www.62-65-dieselpage.com/ Just for the "vintage" GM diesels...
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:04:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By BlackDog714:

Originally Posted By DeadSled:
dodgetruckworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/RamNamedPuff/80842.jpg
Duramax, Powerstroke, Cummis...which do you think is stronger



Actually thats not the DMax, its from the 6.2/6.5...



Anyone have a pic of what the D-max one looks like? Just curious.

S.O.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:05:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By mh454:

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
Do not get a diesel unless you plan to work it. It kind of sucks that the US diesel market is nearly 100% horsepower focused. About half of that is honestly work related, and the other half is vanity.

I think an economy diesel with say 180 HP & 250 ft/lbs in a half ton truck would be the shit. Getting 30(estimated) in a full sized pickup would make me buy one after my current one expires. Too bad the US buyer would never accept it.



I mentioned this once before on another. I think a smaller diesel (around your power specs) would be the cat's ass! If a 6.6L Duramax can get around 25MPG a smaller (maybe even V6?) diesel should easliy get 30 MPG. And if frickin diesel would go back down in price to where its less than gas (like it always used to be), it would be a great combo.



Ford is coming out with a I-6 Diesel F-150 in the next 2 years or so. Your dreams have been answered..... Jeep is also going to supposedly offer a Diesel Liberty.

S.O.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:05:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:
Vin



????

S.O.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:07:34 PM EST
Im pretty sure ford dropped the planned 4.5 V-6 diesel from International because it was not a good engine, and it was having many problems. Its a shame too, cause a 250hp, 400TQ oil burner with 25 mpg would be a PERFECT 1/2 ton truck engine.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:10:18 PM EST
V-6. They were gonna do just like with the modulars and take two cylinders off the big boy.
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