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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 9/17/2009 6:30:46 PM EST
I might be in the market for a quality air rifle soon. I see for about 100 bucks more you can get a gas spring instead of the regular spring.

It sounds like the gas springs are more consistant and lessen the recoil. But I am unsure if they add velocity over the regular ones or lose some.

The pyramid air website is full of good recommendations on the gas spring, but I don't know if I really want to spend 25% more on the gun for it.

I won't be hunting with it (so the ability to keep it ready to fire isn't an issue) and will be messing around in cool weather probably (I am unsure if the gas springs are subject to loss in the cold like CO2 guns are).

What do you think?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 6:51:00 PM EST
Interested too.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 6:57:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 7:05:52 PM EST by clement]
Well if you really got the money any reason you are not looking at PCP guns? The lower powered ones can be pumped up with a special hand pump (there are some that can take either CO2 or just air pressure). Those don't have the double recoil effect and are a little easier to group for target shooting. I still get the occasional flier on my springer but I don't think it is quite broken in yet.

I dunno about the differences between gas and steel other than maintenance and longevity.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 7:03:53 PM EST
I have pump up and break barrel types. The break barrel ones have a funny recoil. It's not hard, it's just awkward. I find it less accurate. I can shoot some amazing groups with a regular air rifle. I seem to have gotten used to it cause I've been doing pretty good on the squirrels. I have to brace it on the windowsill but I can get them 3 yards away!
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 7:14:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By gitarmac:
I have pump up and break barrel types. The break barrel ones have a funny recoil. It's not hard, it's just awkward. I find it less accurate. I can shoot some amazing groups with a regular air rifle. I seem to have gotten used to it cause I've been doing pretty good on the squirrels. I have to brace it on the windowsill but I can get them 3 yards away!


You know of the Artillery hold for springers right?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 7:20:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 7:21:06 PM EST by Sill]
Originally Posted By clement:
Originally Posted By gitarmac:
I have pump up and break barrel types. The break barrel ones have a funny recoil. It's not hard, it's just awkward. I find it less accurate. I can shoot some amazing groups with a regular air rifle. I seem to have gotten used to it cause I've been doing pretty good on the squirrels. I have to brace it on the windowsill but I can get them 3 yards away!


You know of the Artillery hold for springers right?


I thought my Gamo Bigcat was a piece of shit because I couldn't group it...I will try this tomorrow.

-Thanks
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:00:42 PM EST
Sill - try a variety of pellets too.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:14:59 PM EST
Only $2,915 and this one could be yours

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:23:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By roc762:
Sill - try a variety of pellets too.


yeah try some heavier pellets since your rifle puts the lighter ones pretty close to supersonic. The JSB Diabolo Exacts are a damn good pellet. A bit more expensive then the real cheap stuff but they work well in a lot of guns. (The exact heavy ones may or may not work better for you)
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:32:07 PM EST
I'm not a huge springer fan myself. I've seen some with beautiful wood, bluing, fit, finish, inherent accuracy, sweet trigger, etc. but having said all that....in my heart of hearts I just don't believe a quality gun should sound like "BOINK! SPROING! TWANG!" etc. PCP's are just plain more enjoyable for me. They're more forgiving on hold, more power potential, handle fairly cold climates pretty well, don't take uber strong scopes and mounts, can't be badly damaged by an accidental dry fire, can come as repeaters, and so on....


Not to say there's no place for a springer. I'm currently saving up for an RWS 34 just to have for a spare/back up/ low maintenance kinda beater, and both of my PCP's have been purchased from a good friend who is much more experienced than I am who is getting rid of his PCP's in favor of springers. He's attracted to the simplicity of them.


Now that I've pontificated a bit, and answered a question that wasn't even asked....

I have frankly never shot a Gas Ram gun, but having said that, don't see the need for them, under most circumstances. Other than staying cocked for endless hours I don't see them having any great advantages over a well tuned springer. If it were me...I'd buy a decent springer, shoot the hell out of it, and see if I like it. If it's just not performing to expectations after a reasonable break-in, then I would consider a quality tune or a Gas Ram conversion.

Sorry about all I got to offer is subjective. I've developed an addiction to airguns in the last year or so, and can't pass up a thread about them. I never thought I'd see the day I'd have a growing airgun collection and a shrinking powder burner collection...


A couple more places to check out are Airguns of Arizona and Straight Shooters Precision Airguns. Both of those places have been very helpful and treated me well in the past.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 5:47:02 AM EST
You know what? I've now decided totally against the idea of getting an air rifle.

Instead, I'm going to get a bolt, lever or pump action .22 that takes shorts and go that route. Many rounds (CBs in particular) are reported to be just as quiet as an air rifle, and more potent.

Looks like it will be cheaper, even (except maybe for the ammo).
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 8:15:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 8:17:21 PM EST by Floppy_833]
I am a bit late, but anyway....

Gas ram guns are awesome, but only if you get the good ones. Some of them have a port at the rear of the ram that allows you to adjust the pressure up and down somewhat, and you can tune them to shoot a particular pellet very accurately. An airgun pellet won't hit as hard as a 22LR, but I would bet that the airgun is quieter than a 22 shooting low-velocity ammo, and furthermore have an unrecognizable sound. I have seen this the few times I've tried to dispatch small critters with it––if you fire any 22LR or cheaper airgun, they immediately run for cover. Many times when I shoot mine the same animals would stick their heads up even higher and look around.

A few years back a company was selling gas-ram conversion kits for certain spring-piston airguns; I don't recall who the name was. Back then it was the Diana/RWS "big" airguns (models 48, 52 and 54) and the Beeman Kodiak. The problem that killed these kits was that the ram was self-contained, and sealed at the factory so there was no way to put more air in it if it lost pressure,,,,which they did. Many of them would slowly leak pressure over 6-12 months. I don't know anything about these newer conversions, but I know what my first question would be.

The funniest part of all this was that people who bought Theoben/Weihrauch/Beeman RX guns, hardly ever complained about them losing pressure over time. Many people who bought these airguns never owned a pump at all (-though they did miss out on being able to use a huge advantage these guns have...).

{-I forget who made the Beeman Kodiak,,,, Beeman does not make any of their airguns, they never did. They just license semi-custom airguns from other manufacturers. So if you are considering any airgun with the Beeman name on it, then it is worth your time to track down who the original manufacturer is, because it may be cheaper or have better features from that source-}


The Weihrauch HW90 and the Beeman RX-2 are basically the same airgun (both cost $650-$700) but as of a few years ago Beeman had blocked the ram port and no longer sold the pump and gauge, due to people over-pressurizing their guns and damaging them and then returning them for warranty repairs. If you pump up the pressure too much it will ruin the piston seal.

Theoben is the original patent holder for the gas-ram and most of the gas-ram airguns they made and sold themselves. Weihrauch is the only licensee they've had (the Beeman was a version of the HW90). Theoben also sells a version of the same gun as the Crusader now, for around $1000. In the past I know that the main difference of Theobens was that they used nicer wood for their stocks. http://www.theobenusa.com/index.html

The Theoben Eliminator guns are also gas-ram pistons, but they use an improved ram/piston design. And they cost more.
Beeman used to sell a version named the Crow Magnum, but it's gone now.
Beeman is not what it used to be when the old man was running the show.

The ram pumps are rather expensive, but they are a key accessory and most other air pumps will not work. The HW90/RX series rams need to be pumped up to 330 PSI to work at their maximum power, and there's not any other hand pumps around I know of that will reach that reliably. The Eliminator rams use a far higher pressure––up around 900 PSI––making finding any useful substitute hand-pump even less likely. You could adapt any air pressure gauge if you could get the fitting made.

I think I bought my Beeman in 1992. It is a nifty toy, but it was expen$ive back then, and still is today.
The prices I remember are airgun=$380, scope&mounts=$360, ram pump=$170, pressure gauge=$50.
To put these prices in perspective, at the time you could buy a plain Colt Sporter for around $600.

If you buy one of these gas-ram airguns and want a scope, you need a better brand of scope––think Burris, Leupold or better. Also you must have the right mounts; the current Beeman mounts appear to be the same as mine, or alternately, you could go with whatever Theoben recommends but you might have to order them from the UK.

Another potential annoyance: I bought my rifle plain-sights at first and added the scope later. At that point I found that the barrel angle drooped too much (gun just barely shot inside the scope picture with the vertical adjustment all the way down) and had to send it back to Beeman for "scope angle barrel adjustment".
[-If you shoot using the regular sights, it's better to have the barrel droop down below vertical, because that makes it easier to line your head up behind the sights––but if you want to use a scope, you need the barrel to "droop" up a bit, to keep the POI inside the scope's window of adjustment as far out as possible-]
They do something (?) to make the barrel close angled higher on the gun––shave the breech seal maybe? I don't know, but it works. I remember inspecting the airgun very closely before and after the operation and I could not see what they did, but it worked. With cheaper airguns you can just bend the barrel upwards in a vise, but the Beeman (Weihrauch) barrels are pretty expensive, and pretty springy steel to boot... it's not a job I wanted to risk. You cannot just shim inside the scope rings or under the scope mounts, because then the scope will creep.

––––––

There's lots of UK airgun boards but they deal with airguns you can't get, issues you don't have and they can't speak American right.
The place for US people to ask about airguns is the Kitching airgun board: http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/
~








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