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11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 8/17/2004 7:56:37 PM EST
Here is an anti Second Amendment article.

The New York Times
August 18, 2004

Who Needs Assault Weapons?
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/18/opinion/18kristoff.html

MERIDIAN, Idaho — If you've been longing for your very own assault rifle and 30-round magazine for the next holiday season, you're in luck.

President Bush, sidestepping a promise, is allowing the ban on assault rifles and oversized clips to expire on Sept. 14. So at a gun store here in Meridian, a bit west of Boise, the counter has a display promising "2 FREE HIGH-CAPACITY MAGAZINES."

All you have to do is purchase a new Beretta 9-millimeter handgun and you'll receive two high-capacity magazines - on the condition, the fine print states, that the federal ban expires on schedule.

President Bush promised in the last presidential campaign to support an extension of the ban, which was put in place in 1994 for 10 years. "It makes no sense for assault weapons to be around our society," Mr. Bush observed at the time.

These days Mr. Bush still says that he'll sign an extension of the ban if it happens to reach his desk. But he knows that the only way the ban can be extended on time is if he actually urges its passage, and he refuses to do that. So his promise to support an extension rings hollow - it's not exactly a lie, but it's not the full truth, either.

Mr. Bush's flip-flop is surprising because he has generally had the courage of his convictions. Apparently he's hiding from this issue because it's so politically charged.

Critics of the assault weapon ban have one valid point: the ban has more holes than Swiss cheese.

"The big frustration of my customers is that [the ban] removed things that were kind of fun and made it look cool, but didn't affect how the gun operated," said Sean Wontor, a salesman who heaved two rifles onto the counter of Sportsman's Warehouse here in Meridian to make his point.

One was an assault weapon that was produced before the ban (and thus still legal), and the other was a sanitized version produced afterward to comply with the ban by removing the bayonet mount and the flash suppressor.

After these cosmetic changes, the rifle is now no longer considered an assault weapon, yet, of course, it is just as lethal.

Still, assault weapons, while amounting to only 1 percent of America's 190 million privately owned guns, account for a hugely disproportionate share of gun violence precisely because of their macho appeal.

Assault weapons aren't necessary for any kind of hunting or target shooting, but they're popular because they can transform a suburban Walter Mitty into Rambo, for a lot less money than a Hummer.

"I've got a ton of customers shooting squirrels with AK-47's," said Kevin Tester, a gun salesman near Boise. "They're using 30-round magazines and 7.62-millimeter ammunition, they're shooting up the hills, and they're having a blast."

I grew up on an Oregon farm that bristled with guns to deal with the coyotes that dined on our sheep. Having fired everything from a pistol to a machine gun, I can testify that shooting can be a lot of fun. But consider the cost: 29,000 gun deaths in America each year.

While gun statistics are as malleable as Play-Doh, they do underscore that assault weapons are a special problem in America.

They accounted for 8.4 percent of the guns traced to crimes between 1988 and 1991, and they are still used in one in five fatal shootings of police officers. If anything, we should be plugging the holes in the ban by having it cover copycat weapons without bayonet mounts, instead of moving backward and allowing a new flood of weapons and high-capacity magazines.

The bottom line is that Mr. Bush's waffling on assault weapons will mean more dead Americans.

About 100 times as many Americans are already dying from gunfire in the U.S. as in Iraq. As many Americans die from firearms every six weeks as died in the 9/11 attacks - yet the White House is paralyzed on this issue.

Mr. Bush needs to live up to his campaign promise and push to keep the ban on assault weapons. Otherwise, we'll bring more of the Iraq-like carnage to our own shores, and his refusal to confront our gun problem will kill more Americans over time than Osama bin Laden ever could.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 7:58:00 PM EST
ME for one. Who the hell needs porches or corvettes? Who needs the writer of this article? not me for the last one, that is for sure.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:01:52 PM EST
Who "NEEDS" an "Assault weapon"?

Any of us that "NEED" anything more than a 3 cylinder GEO to get around in I guess (?)

GEEZ', if only those silly founding fathers had figured-out what it is we'd "NEED" before they wrote the BOR this crap would be SOOO much simpler
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:02:33 PM EST
"I've got a ton of customers shooting squirrels with AK-47's," said Kevin Tester, a gun salesman near Boise. "They're using 30-round magazines and 7.62-millimeter ammunition, they're shooting up the hills, and they're having a blast."

Who are these jackasses? I really need to stop reading crap like this. I'm gonna get high blood pressure.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:03:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By GomerPyle:
"I've got a ton of customers shooting squirrels with AK-47's," said Kevin Tester, a gun salesman near Boise. "They're using 30-round magazines and 7.62-millimeter ammunition, they're shooting up the hills, and they're having a blast."

Who are these jackasses? I really need to stop reading crap like this. I'm gonna get high blood pressure.



I expect its an example of them talking with someone about it for a long time taking 60 good things throwing them out so they can publish 1 bad thing thet said.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:05:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Taxman:

Originally Posted By GomerPyle:
"I've got a ton of customers shooting squirrels with AK-47's," said Kevin Tester, a gun salesman near Boise. "They're using 30-round magazines and 7.62-millimeter ammunition, they're shooting up the hills, and they're having a blast."

Who are these jackasses? I really need to stop reading crap like this. I'm gonna get high blood pressure.



I expect its an example of them talking with someone about it for a long time taking 60 good things throwing them out so they can publish 1 bad thing thet said.



Probably so. Or maybe the dealer trying to sound "badass" to the equally stupid reporter.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:07:29 PM EST

Mr. Bush's flip-flop is surprising because he has generally had the courage of his convictions. Apparently he's hiding from this issue because it's so politically charged.


No flip-flop. He never said he would actively push the AWB renewal. Total distortion of the truth, but what do you expect from the media.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:08:28 PM EST

we'll bring more of the Iraq-like carnage to our own shores, and his refusal to confront our gun problem will kill more Americans over time than Osama bin Laden ever could.


Is he threatening us? I think that he needs a visit from the FBI.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:11:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By gunham:

we'll bring more of the Iraq-like carnage to our own shores, and his refusal to confront our gun problem will kill more Americans over time than Osama bin Laden ever could.


Is he threatening us? I think that he needs a visit from the FBI.



sounds mighty threating to me as well
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:16:41 PM EST
who cares what some shithead who writes for the NYT thinks?
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:21:00 PM EST
Who needs donuts and ice cream....that stuff is responsible for many deaths....we should ban it....for the children.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:28:21 PM EST
This is the first article I have read where at least the writer actually understands the cosmetic nature of the ban, i.e. pre-ban vs. post-ban configurations. But he's still a turd.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:30:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lexington:
This is the first article I have read where at least the writer actually understands the cosmetic nature of the ban, i.e. pre-ban vs. post-ban configurations. But he's still a turd.



yet he still pushes to extend it... hmmmmm
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:41:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By FRIZ:

Still, assault weapons, while amounting to only 1 percent of America's 190 million privately owned guns, account for a hugely disproportionate share of gun violence precisely because of their macho appeal.




Damn straight it's hugely disproportinate. It's just about NEVER.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 8:42:46 PM EST

Who Needs Assault Weapons?


I do!
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 10:25:50 PM EST
AW's are already banned by that shitheads state law. I guess that accounts for why soo many crimes are being commited with them.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 10:47:28 PM EST
When they talk about crime with assault weapons, once the ban started anyways, I wonder if they are counting the non-violent crimes. Specifically people who get busted for pre/post ban configured weapons.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 10:57:44 PM EST
WE NEED ASSAULT WEAPONS ESPECIALLY THAT NOW THE DEAD CAN WALK AGAIN....
I SHIT NOT.......CNN HAS THE COVERAGE.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 11:35:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/17/2004 11:36:05 PM EST by raven]
Another example of the NY Times sending a drone out to flyover country then reporting back to the hive to disclose what he has discovered in that exotic land known as "Idaho".
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 11:42:55 PM EST
No comment required.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 12:06:26 AM EST
The media is a crack-whore.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 2:49:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mauser101:

Originally Posted By FRIZ:

Still, assault weapons, while amounting to only 1 percent of America's 190 million privately owned guns, account for a hugely disproportionate share of gun violence precisely because of their macho appeal.




Damn straight it's hugely disproportinate. It's just about NEVER.



I'm sure they cook up these numbers by calling any rifle, pistol, or shotgun that could conceivably hold more than 10 rounds an "assault weapon." Your single stack 1911 is an "assault weapon" because you could conceiveably stick a 100 rd. single stack mag in it. Sure, you would need to climb a ladder to pull the trigger, but those facts matter little when you are pushing an agenda.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 2:59:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 3:09:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/18/2004 3:10:12 AM EST by rjroberts]
Further proof of the FRAUD that is the NY Times. Just like most gun violence is committed with pre-ban assault rifles, the Times also denied in the 1930's that the mass killings/genocide in Stalinist Russia even occurred, and got a Pulitzer prize for the coverage. The Timestruth is long term, ingrained, systemic.

By the way, here's a "need" (though no justification truly is required). I am not a hunter, and live in FL, as indicated. I do take a rifle on my boat. Practical question: would you take the finest wood and flame bluing (a la Kerry's hunting weapons) out on a boat in salt water, or even want to have and maintain one in the humidity. Or, would you prefer fiberglas and stainless? How about the pistol grip for easier and more solid handling? Or a collapsible stock (waiting for next month) in tight quarters? Let's see, Griffen & Howe , or an AR-10?
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 3:10:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By FRIZ:
But consider the cost: 29,000 gun deaths in America each year.



Why is the author including suicides from all guns when talking about how dangerous assault weapons are? The real number of people killed by someone with a gun is less than 15,000. From the way he worded it "gun deaths" I'm guessing he knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote it.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 3:18:33 AM EST
hmmm another misinformed journalist
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 3:21:24 AM EST
Me. I NEED assault weapons.

Numerous of them. As many as possible in fact.

If for nothing else, to exercise my Second Amendment right and protect myself from those abusing the First Amendment.

Politicans, journalists....whoever.



Link Posted: 8/18/2004 3:25:38 AM EST
What an ass! I can't believe that the writter would have the gall to call Bush a flip-flopper!


As many Americans die from firearms every six weeks as died in the 9/11 attacks


And much more die from drownings,car wrecks, and ATV's.


oversized clips

What is an oversized clip?
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 3:36:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 6:19:32 AM EST
classic -- they support partial birth abortion - which I believe is not mentioned the US Constitution..but deplore the RTKBA which is....

I hope he dies of a prolapsed rectum
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 6:19:44 AM EST
As I posted on the awbansunset.com news page... who needs "assault weapons" (given the fact that these guns are defined by their appearance)? No one. Do you need a word processor and a powerful media outlet with which to spread your opinions? No, but the Constitution protects both of these rights. Just because one of them happens to be unimportant to you doesn't mean it should be discarded.

--Mike
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 4:10:20 PM EST
Haven't "assault weapons" along with virtually all other types of weapons been banned in NYC for along time.....but yet they still have 2,000 murders a year.But lets' see states like Vermont,Maine,Idaho have low crime rates,yet relaxed gun laws...hmmm....
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 4:50:56 PM EST
Every able-bodied man or woman concerned with the defense of their home or country from all enemies, foreign or domestic.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:24:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:35:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/18/2004 5:37:15 PM EST by 1911lover]
Every reader of that paper who is clueless....and there are an awful lot of clueless sheeple in this country!

That is who will care about that moron writer's senseless piece.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:38:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/18/2004 5:44:13 PM EST by LonesomeHawk]

The New York Times is to news what child molestation is to parenting.
- Kim Du Toit
Kim Du Toit .com
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:42:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By FRIZ:
Here is an anti Second Amendment article.



President Bush, sidestepping a promise, is allowing the ban on assault rifles and oversized clips to expire on Sept. 14. So at a gun store here in Meridian, a bit west of Boise, the counter has a display promising "2 FREE HIGH-CAPACITY MAGAZINES."




They must mean clothes pins, right? Other than that, I never heard of an OVERSIZED CLIP.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:42:39 PM EST

Who Needs Assault Weapons?


I do!
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:44:51 PM EST

But consider the cost: 29,000 gun deaths in America each year.

While gun statistics are as malleable as Play-Doh, they do underscore that assault weapons are a special problem in America.



Gun deaths.... not necessarily "assault weapon" related.....
They love to twist facts eh?
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:46:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By DWFAN:

Originally Posted By FRIZ:
Here is an anti Second Amendment article.



President Bush, sidestepping a promise, is allowing the ban on assault rifles and oversized clips to expire on Sept. 14. So at a gun store here in Meridian, a bit west of Boise, the counter has a display promising "2 FREE HIGH-CAPACITY MAGAZINES."




They must mean clothes pins, right? Other than that, I never heard of an OVERSIZED CLIP.



I have an OVERSIZED money clip
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:46:42 PM EST
<raises hand>
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:54:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By GomerPyle:
"I've got a ton of customers shooting squirrels with AK-47's," said Kevin Tester, a gun salesman near Boise. "They're using 30-round magazines and 7.62-millimeter ammunition, they're shooting up the hills, and they're having a blast."



hey some a them squirrels are tough....



Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:57:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By JeffersonDarcy:
who cares what some shithead who writes for the NYT thinks?



This comment is key to this entire discussion.

Besides, who needs "assault weapons"? Of course we all do. Besides you never know when you will have to engage a band of brain eating zombies. Better safe than sorry I always say.
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