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Posted: 10/11/2004 3:58:20 PM EST
I am thinking of either a winchester or marlin lever gun for hog or bear hunts that I am getting ready to plan. Looking for pros and cons to either brand and pros and cons for the good ol' 45-70 or the hotter 450 Marlin caliber. What do you think and why?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:59:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 6:39:15 PM EST by Sturmwehr]
...You mean there's other choices other than a Model 1894 Winchester in .30-30?

BLASMPHEMY!


Given ammo costs, I'd say the .45-70 Govt. out of your two choices. I mean, .45-70 is about enough power for anything you'd be hunting - short of elephant or rhino or something like that.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:59:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sturmwehr:
...You mean there's other choices other than a Model 1984 Winchester in .30-30?

BLASMPHEMY!



YES!!! BLASMPHEMY!!!! HANG HIM!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:01:30 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:06:43 PM EST
Marlin is absolutely the way to go.

They have some awesome rifles.

CMOS
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:07:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 4:10:38 PM EST by alloy6061]
I regularly shoot a Marlin Cowboy in 45-70 and I LOVE it!

The 45-70 with handloads or Buffalo Brand or Corbon loads are AWESOME!
You can still shoot standard pressure 45-70 loads for fun.

HERE are Corbon's 45-70 loads.

The 45-70 is a dream to handload too!.....LOTS of fun!
Load lead 300 grain slugs for plinking or 500 grain loads if you need them or anything in between.

HERE is a review of Buffalo Bores custom 45-70 loads.

Get a Marlin in 45-70!!!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:09:51 PM EST
I hunt bear with a 16 inch winchester model 94 in .44 mag.



(the one with the large loop lever)

I have to get in real close.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:14:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 4:15:10 PM EST by beernut]
there's just something about the ol' 45-70.

'nuff said


...personally, I have a Marlin .44 mag lever gun as my truck gun
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:16:05 PM EST
45-70
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:16:36 PM EST
reloads in 45-70 out class 450 marlin
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:16:40 PM EST
Edit to add : Marlin.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:19:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 4:19:44 PM EST by SWO_daddy]
Marlin 1895 in 45-70. Use full power ammo from the smaller makers or roll your own.

Then any bear or hog you come across will be PWN3D
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:23:06 PM EST
I have a Marlin lever in 30-30. That is a great gun.

In May I am buying a Marlin lever in 45-70.

I love lever action rifles!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:29:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:32:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 4:32:56 PM EST by PONY_DRIVER]
Marlin all the way. Wrenchesters never felt "right" for me although they are lighter if you want to hump one around for long periods of time. Also I don't feel like I'm eviscerating the Marlin when I work the lever, unlike the winchester.

and BTW it's 1894, not 1984.

ETA: www.marlinowners.com

Check out the "Big Bore" forum.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:39:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 4:40:39 PM EST by enigma1]
Marlin Have an 1895 LTD II (45/70) better design, better rifle, IMO

And hey , you clean it from the breech !
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:42:27 PM EST
Real good info...thanks! What do you think of ported barrels? Worth it or not really needed with either round?
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:45:09 PM EST
I shoot one of these:

Mine has a pistol grip stock and a half round/half octagon barrel with a Marbles rear tang sight.
It's AWESOME!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:51:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:
I hunt bear with a 16 inch winchester model 94 in .44 mag.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v413/mtechgunman/IMG_2361.jpg

(the one with the large loop lever)

I have to get in real close.



Beauteousness.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:51:23 PM EST
have a brother that has a .444 marlin. It's like a .44 super-ultra-maximum mag.

my favorite lever gun
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:53:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 5:02:04 PM EST by 444slayer]
Well, gee, which ones do you suppose I like?

I keep waiting on that stainless 444 lever gun to come out........

If I was going to get a .45 caliber, I would get the 45-70, because it can be safely loaded just as hot as the .450, and 45-70 ammo is alot easier to find. Wal-mart used to have it. Don't know if they still do.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:58:04 PM EST
Marlins are generally heavier and smoother unless you are talking about an older winchester. Modern levers? Marlin

SRM
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:33:58 PM EST
Marlin 45-70

If I wasn't lazy I would post a pic. Got a weaver rail mounted and an use an EoTech.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:44:58 PM EST
Marlin 336 Stainless Steel, .45-70
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:51:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 5:53:54 PM EST by 1776]
The Marlin is the ONLY way to go. The Winchester is a POS. Talk to some SASS guys and they will have a similar opinion. Marlin is very durable and the Winchester is not.


I wish Marlin would make a 1894 45LC with a pistol grip. I dont care much for the english straight stock type.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:53:49 PM EST
The Marlin 1985SS .45-70 is my choice.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:58:00 PM EST
I have two Model 94 Winchesters in .30-30. One is a pre-64 (1956) that still functions flawlessly. There's just something about lever actions. I guess I just like that Old West feeling.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:59:59 PM EST
I want a marlin full sized cowboy in 45-70. It makes me feel like Clint Eastwood
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:28:35 PM EST
Any opinions on the ported barrels? Is it worth it?
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:30:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By IronSamVane:

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:
I hunt bear with a 16 inch winchester model 94 in .44 mag.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v413/mtechgunman/IMG_2361.jpg

(the one with the large loop lever)

I have to get in real close.



Beauteousness.



thanks!!

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:31:04 PM EST
A quick handling Lever Gun is a pleasure to use and carry. I often carry a 45-70 Marlin in the Bush. I have the Guide Gun and one of the Marlin LTD models (45-70 holds nine rounds) and I really like the Guide Gun due to it's weight and handling qualities. I would stay with the 45-70 it can easily keep pace with the 450 Marlin at lower pressures ( it has a slight case capacity advantage) and is easy to find.
The 1895 Winchester reproduction is a very nice rifle chambered in the 405 WCF it is a very powerful package. Marlin is chambering for the 480 Ruger/475 Linebaugh (I understand this is being dropped) there are some Model 92 clones being chambered for the 454 Casull, I shot one of these (I think it was called a Puma) it was very light and quick and the Casull is a great Lever Gun cartridge. Just remember Lever Guns are the way of the future.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:32:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 6:33:18 PM EST by fight4yourrights]
Get them both!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:38:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:

and BTW it's 1894, not 1984.



Just a typo.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:41:42 PM EST
Marlin 1895 Guide gun .45/70. Cheap simmons scope puts factory remington 405 sps touching holes at 50 y. Was planning to get a Cowboy or pimp up the guide gun with one of those interchangable barrel setups with a custom 30" full octagon with tube to match.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:43:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By alloy6061:
I regularly shoot a Marlin Cowboy in 45-70 and I LOVE it!

The 45-70 with handloads or Buffalo Brand or Corbon loads are AWESOME!
You can still shoot standard pressure 45-70 loads for fun.

HERE are Corbon's 45-70 loads.

The 45-70 is a dream to handload too!.....LOTS of fun!
Load lead 300 grain slugs for plinking or 500 grain loads if you need them or anything in between.

HERE is a review of Buffalo Bores custom 45-70 loads.

Get a Marlin in 45-70!!!



+1...the variety of .45-70 loads IMO makes it a no brainer over the .450 Marlin. I like the versatility of the load, and the history as well. Hard to beat a Marlin Guide Gun.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:52:18 PM EST
Marlin

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:01:29 PM EST
From what I understand, the .450 Magnum was designed as a hot .45-70 that will not chamber in a .45-70. The .45-70 can be loaded hotter than many guns designed for it will tolerate, thus the .450.

I have a Marlin and it is much lighter than my Browning/Winchester copy. In .45-70, that marlin is all I would want in the field for hogs, bear, deer, elk, etc. Hot factory hunting loads will work in it just fine.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:10:21 PM EST
While I love the model 94, I have not had much luck with the USRAC products I currently own. I would love to own an actual pre-64 (and some day I will), but would get the marlin in .45-70 if we are going new.

Hoppy8420
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:15:30 PM EST
Marlin!!!!!!!!

I don't like Winchester. Marlin's better all the way around. Grips, ejection ports, sights, quality, etc.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 7:28:38 PM EST
I have a Winchester Model 94 chambered in 45 Colt, or Long Colt to some people. I bought it used at a local gun show and I love it. Very smooth action, and incredibly, incredibly, accurate out to 150 YARDS! Past 150 the bullet really starts dropping but up to 150 I can put 11 rounds in a 3 inch hole with iron sights.

I think whoever had it before me did some work to it because of how smooth and accurate it is. All the others ones I've shot like it in various calibers aren't as smooth or accurate.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:14:08 PM EST
Still no comments on porting the barrel???? I have never fired the 45-70 (sounds like that is the way to go) and if I use the hotter loads is it worth porting and how much difference does it make? Sounds like Marlin is pretty much the hands down winner!

Thanks
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:39:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 10:46:28 PM EST by 444slayer]
I don't think they are porting them any more from the factory. It was just round holes anyway. Fish gill brakes/porting are the most efficient, but also increase back blast and noise to the shooter You could always have it magna-ported, but I think that would ruin the look of the gun. 45-70's with full house loads kick pretty hard. If you are not used to recoil, it kicks really hard. A good recoil pad helps. You could always change the pad if it is not adequate, but they are putting better pads on them now. The first ones had solid butt plates. OOWWW!!

Lever guns are fantastic!

Here's a link to Marlin's big-bore lever gun page
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 11:00:59 PM EST
Marlin +1

I love my 1895 in 45-70
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 12:50:31 AM EST
Wally world has been selling, I think, Winchester 94's for about 265 or so. I've been thinking about picking one up just for the hell of it.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 12:51:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 12:53:31 AM EST by onrope1971]

Originally Posted By 444slayer:
Well, gee, which ones do you suppose I like?
home.alltel.net/fdombek/444-3.jpg
I keep waiting on that stainless 444 lever gun to come out........

If I was going to get a .45 caliber, I would get the 45-70, because it can be safely loaded just as hot as the .450, and 45-70 ammo is alot easier to find. Wal-mart used to have it. Don't know if they still do.



+1
Bought my GG in .450. Wanted the 45-70 but know one had them in stock at the time. .450 is alotta fun though!!! Check out Wild West Guns they have some nice stuff.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 6:32:22 AM EST
I was thinking of either the 1895 guide gun or the regular 1895 with the 22" barrel. I am possibly leaning towards the guide gun in stainless because #1...stainless is sooo cool and #2...I could have it magna-ported and not worry about having to refinish. The regular 1895 only comes in blue unfortunately but I'm sure it would kick less and have a little less muzzle flash also.

Thanks for all of the input!
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 9:08:20 AM EST
I am not positive, but pretty sure you don't have to have a blued gun refinished when you have it maga-ported.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 9:31:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 9:37:47 AM EST by dog_tag]

Originally Posted By Sturmwehr:
...You mean there's other choices other than a Model 1894 Winchester in .30-30?

BLASMPHEMY!


Given ammo costs, I'd say the .45-70 Govt. out of your two choices. I mean, .45-70 is about enough power for anything you'd be hunting - short of elephant or rhino or something like that.



Well actually you can take a elephant with a 45-70.
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/lupoindex.asp
Lupo Safaris

New World Record

In the summer of 2002, Vince Lupo of Tampa, Florida successfully completed his quest to take the African Big Six with his Marlin 45-70 lever-gun and Garrett Hammerhead Ammo. Vince's efforts spanned a 13-month period, a remarkably short time given the broken ankle Vince suffered during his safaris. From the 220-pound charging leopard Vince stopped point-blank, to his remarkable SCI Gold Medal white rhino and huge elephant, Vince's safaris have demonstrated an exceptional combination of tenacity and outstanding marksmanship. Vince Lupo is the first to take the African Big Five or Six with the 45-70 lever-gun. To read a full account of this remarkable achievement as told by Vince Lupo, check out the articles below.

GARRETT'S 45-70 AMMO
$50 / 20 CTGS

540-GR SUPER-HARD-CAST GAS-CHECKED HAMMERHEAD AT 1550-FPS

THIS 45-70 AMMUNITION IS RECOMMENDED FOR USE ONLY IN MODERN MARLIN RIFLES.

ENERGY: 2880 FT/LBS; TAYLOR KNOCKOUT VALUE: 55; MEPLAT: .360"; CHAMBER PRESSURE: 35,000-PSI; SECTIONAL DENSITY: .368; TRAJECTORY: +1.5" @ 50-YDS; ZERO @ 100-YDS; -6.5" @ 150-YDS

I bet those rounds kick like a mule.

ETA. I highly doubt I can link this picture and have it appear so here's a link to a pic of Vince Lupo and his elephant.
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/26.asp

Oh and I'd hot link those but I don't know how.

Link Posted: 10/12/2004 10:21:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1776:
The Marlin is the ONLY way to go. The Winchester is a POS. Talk to some SASS guys and they will have a similar opinion. Marlin is very durable and the Winchester is not.


I wish Marlin would make a 1894 45LC with a pistol grip. I dont care much for the english straight stock type.



Bull pucky You see more jams at matches with Marlins, John Wayne didn't shoot no Marlins. Best SASS lever guns are Winchester 92s then shortstroked 73s. Marlins baah. Jimmy Stewart never shot no Marlins. Model 94s in pistol cartridges are a bastardized version of a long cartridge gun converted to short cartridges and can't be smoothed out.

HOWEVER that said , for what you want, a modern lever action firing a stout load the Marlin guide gun is the way to go. I would go for the 450 only in that I prefer not to have ammunition for one gun that I have that will reduce another of my guns and face to a pile of scrap. Ergo I keep my 45lc loads safe for Colts and not at the upper limit for my Vaquero and my 45-70 at a safe level for my trap-door

The short action Winchesters are the Cowboy Guns, you need a stout 45-70 or 450 class weapon for big animules then the Marlin is a great gun.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 10:25:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 10:26:12 AM EST by 444slayer]

Link Posted: 10/12/2004 10:29:28 AM EST
The only factory .45-70 loads I've fired were some Remington 405gr jacketed softpoints. Recoil felt like a 20ga... a nice shove...


... but that was out of a 13lb Sharps reproduction...


I wouldn't want to shoot that from a 5lb lever rifle. Ouch. If I were to want a larger bore lever than I have (I have a Winchester 94 Ranger Compact in .357), I'd go either .44 Mag or .45 Colt.
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