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Posted: 9/17/2004 11:03:43 AM EST
There have been a couple of stories recently about Israel and Taiwan spying on the US. Both of these countries are our 'friends' and depend on the US for weapons and security.

Which country pisses you off more, and why?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:05:36 AM EST
israel. they're so sneaky, i don't trust them.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:05:45 AM EST
Well, given that the Israel thing was BULL SHIT conjured up by, yepper, See_B.S. the Rathergate network, there's probably not much to discuss on that side of things:

www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/28563.htm
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:10:41 AM EST
I am equally pissed with both. Neither of these countries would exist without our support, and we provide that support to both nations at our own peril. Now they have the audacity to try and steal our military and political secrets.

We share intelligence with both of these nations, we give them our most state of the art military hardware, and this is our repayment!
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:13:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Well, given that the Israel thing was BULL SHIT conjured up by, yepper, See_B.S. the Rathergate network, there's probably not much to discuss on that side of things:

www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/28563.htm



Yep another CBS fabrication.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:15:48 AM EST
This pisses me off, CBS produce a breaking story, and then fail to make any corrections, and should state "they were wrong".


By all accounts, what started off as a story about espionage at the highest levels of the Pentagon has turned into, at worst, a case of the possible misuse of classified documents — specifically, a single draft memo on U.S. policy on Iran that a Defense Department analyst may have shown to someone at the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), who may then have passed the information on to Israeli officials.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:16:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sierra_Hombre:
israel. they're so sneaky, i don't trust them.


[clauderaines]I'm shocked![/clauderaines]
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:17:49 AM EST
Equal.

Tho if adjusted for pro rata percentages of aid received, Israel is the worse of the two.

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:19:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sylvan:

Originally Posted By Sierra_Hombre:
israel. they're so sneaky, i don't trust them.


[clauderaines]I'm shocked![/clauderaines]



funny-assed line. i love that movie.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:19:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:21:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Well, given that the Israel thing was BULL SHIT conjured up by, yepper, See_B.S. the Rathergate network, there's probably not much to discuss on that side of things:

www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/28563.htm


Yeah, I saw that story, as well, but thought it better than to bring it up myself!

Some think that I should be a registered lobbyist for the State of Israel!

Eric The('OyVey!)Hun



aren't you a jew?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 11:22:25 AM EST
All countries, with the capacity to do so, spy on each other. No big deal in my book. What is more important is what they do with the info. they get.

My administration has always been pro-Israel. I love those crazy Jews. The original fighters of terror.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:05:38 PM EST
Everybody spies on everybody. That's completely normal.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:34:09 PM EST
Well this gets interesting. The Isrealis do not get aid from the US, so lets set that straight, what the US does do is co-sign their loans from the World Bank. They are the only country in the world that pay their loans back on time, actaully before they are due, and have never defaulted, EVER!

Professionally speaking, Dan Rather should be fired for his major journalistic screw-up. What really happened is some journalistic jerk Pro IRAN, caught wind that the US intelligence community was passing the intel to the Isrealis, that the Iranians are making Nukes which would be really bad for the US. Watch the Isrealis pound the shit out of Iran just like they did Iraqs nuke facility about ten years ago.

To the dude above, about the Jew remark, just pull remark in Isreal, you'll get your ass handed to you, the Isrealis are though and with one of the worlds finest military's. We train with them, and they are just like us, burgers, fries, pepsi, friendly as hell, and they are the experts on Terrorism, they also test all our systems. Where the hell do you think we get our mideast intel? Syria?

They work with Mosad, trust me here, Osama is going to get caught with the help of our friends!

I have seen Isreali snipers put a dead zero bullseye X at 300 yards thought a CD handing on a string in front of the target, and swinging in the wind! Yes I have the pictures to prove it. In my foxhole I'll take a Isreali fighting with me and a Brit and a Austrailian.

The Tiwanese are too busy selling our secrets to the Chinese, who's worse China or Russia?

China is becoming more democratic, and Putin is becoming Russia's next Dictator Stalin. The Chinese will surpass the Russians shortly.............

Tiawan is much more expensive that Isreal. Period.

US Marines stand side by side with the I.D.F. Semper-Fi.

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:38:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By AKE:
The Isrealis do not get aid from the US




Oh-ho-ho-kay.



$5 billion a year isn't aid to you???

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:45:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By AKE:
The Tiwanese are too busy selling our secrets to the Chinese, who's worse China or Russia?




Yer gonna need to document THAT claim, chump.

Its ludicrous on its face. The taiwanese are at cold war with teh Chinese.

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 6:54:30 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:01:59 PM EST
How about option 5: Friends don't have to spy on each other.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:02:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 7:03:03 PM EST by painrx]

Originally Posted By AKE:
Well this gets interesting. The Isrealis do not get aid......................



BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

I'M A TOOL AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL I'M TALKING ABOUT

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH










There, fixed it for you.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:04:09 PM EST
What the fuck does it matter? I bet Canada even spies on us. Everybody spies on everybody.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:07:08 PM EST
you don't think we spy on our friends?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:09:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
you don't think we spy on our friends?



That's different! We're America!

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:11:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Steve_T_M:
Everybody spies on everybody. That's completely normal.


+1

Even if Israel was spying on us, they're still on our side. They just want to get information first hand, not spoon fed to them by us. I'm sure we have spies in Israel, too. (and Taiwan).
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 9:57:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By macman37:
How about option 5: Friends don't have to spy on each other.



Surely you jest. Every US Embassy in the world has a CIA operative on assignment, specifically to pick up any info that might be uesful to us; and that includes the UK, Canada, Israel , Australia, and all the other friendly and allied countried of the world. And all their embassies in Washington have equivalent operatives to do the same thing over here.

How long have you been asleep, Rip Van Winkle?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 10:11:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 10:18:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 10:24:21 PM EST by Dave_A]
I could care less about the Israelis or Taiwaneses doing such...

They never get 'significant' information, and we're never going to be at war with wither...

I'd add the Brits to the list, but we actually have a formal intel sharing relationship there, so there's no need for them to spy when they can just ask.... Not that they don't, though...

Spying is part of national existance, even in friendly countries...

You never know what your 'State Department' guy at the 'customs desk' will happen to overhear...

Even in a friendly country, and ESPECIALLY now when our 'enemies' have no national allegiances...

Spying is a fact of life - don't get pissed at other countries for doing it, if you want to get pissed, get pissed at whoever/whatever fails and allows them to do it successfully...

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 10:19:56 PM EST
I don't understand why this causes such an issue. Sure they spy on us, both countries are looking out for their best interests. We can talk all we want about friends and fairness but the simple truth is that all countries look out for their own interests before friendship.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 10:23:30 PM EST
Israel hands down! They OWN our media and use it to promote every sort of filth that use to disgust our forefathers. (But the want to keep Israel all Jewish) Besides that I hear the things they wear on their heads smell like open ass.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 8:06:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By shamayim:

Originally Posted By macman37:
How about option 5: Friends don't have to spy on each other.



Surely you jest. Every US Embassy in the world has a CIA operative on assignment, specifically to pick up any info that might be uesful to us; and that includes the UK, Canada, Israel , Australia, and all the other friendly and allied countried of the world. And all their embassies in Washington have equivalent operatives to do the same thing over here.

How long have you been asleep, Rip Van Winkle?



No I don't, and don't call me Shirley.

They can't be that good of friends if they feel the need to send actual spies over. See, I look at it this way: if we're truly friends with them, why were there so many news reports about Israeli nationals arrested in this country just after 9/11/01? I'm a huge Israel supporter... but they do some really stupid things from time to time. How about New Jersey Governor McMangravy's boy pal? That's tin foil hat stuff but it wouldn't be a stretch for him to be involved with Mossad.

My point is, there's a difference between putting your ear to the ground, and real-deal spying, Mr. Smarty Van Ass.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 8:11:58 AM EST
Israel, they have such a close relationship with us that they don't really need to spy and do it just because they can get away with it. Taiwan is in a much more dangerous position and can't be certain if we would stand by them or sell them out.
Israel, on the other hand, knows that we are tied to them until both nations cease to exist.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 8:31:01 AM EST
Taiwan abided by U.S. demands to stop developing nuclear weapons a decade or two ago. This makes Taiwan entirely vulnerable to the threat posed by mainland China. Compare to Israel, which was given most of its nuclear weapons technology by the U.S. just for the hell of it.

Taiwan will probably be forced into subjugation in about five years if current military trends continue, assuming the next president in 2008 isn't as hawkish as Bush.

Personally, I would cut the Taiwanese a little slack, considering that their lives are on the line, unlike Israel.

BTW, I note that this forum's country codes list Taiwan as "Taiwan, Province of China", which I find personally offensive.
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