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Posted: 10/11/2007 8:28:38 AM EST
Just curious.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:53:57 AM EST
Crack is cheap and is easy to get hooked onto.
The other is more expensive.

Remember several years ago when some people blamed the Federal Government for inventing crack? Nobody has charged the Feds with inventing meth.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:57:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By GarandM1:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Meth.

Its made from shit like MEK and chemical fertilizer.


Actually, it's made from ephedrine or pseudoephedrine.

The other chemicals are just part of the conversion process.


I think those are some of the cutting agents, but it's mostly made from chemicals like brake cleaner, camping fuel, and antifreeze.

The midwest uses alot more anhydrous ammonia since we have more farmlands to steal it from , and the coasts use something else I cant remember right now.

The anhydrous is white and fluffy and the other looks like clear crystals.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:57:58 AM EST
I'd say meth, but I don't have any first hand knowledge of either.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:03:37 AM EST
They're both bad.

That said, when I was young and stupid (in high school) I used meth for a year or so. It sucked ass, but I stopped on my own, and never committed any crimes to get it. I have seen people that completely destroyed themselves with it, and it was so easy to give up for me I just can't understand why they can't do it themselves...
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:03:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By PantherArms762:

Originally Posted By GarandM1:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Meth.

Its made from shit like MEK and chemical fertilizer.


Actually, it's made from ephedrine or pseudoephedrine.

The other chemicals are just part of the conversion process.


I think those are some of the cutting agents, but it's mostly made from chemicals like brake cleaner, camping fuel, and antifreeze.

The midwest uses alot more anhydrous ammonia since we have more farmlands to steal it from , and the coasts use something else I cant remember right now.

The anhydrous is white and fluffy and the other looks like clear crystals.


Yes and no. There are several methods of making meth, and the appearance and purity of the crystals produced are more a function of the skill of the cook than the chemicals used.

The method that was used here is the Red-White-Blue that uses phosphorus, ephedrine and iodine. Because the cops have cracked down on the sale of iodine and ephedrine most tweekers now get their stuff from Mexico.

Better product for a lower price, and simple possession of meth doesn't carry the same legal penalties as cooking it yourself does.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:31:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By GarandM1:

Originally Posted By PantherArms762:

Originally Posted By GarandM1:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Meth.

Its made from shit like MEK and chemical fertilizer.


Actually, it's made from ephedrine or pseudoephedrine.

The other chemicals are just part of the conversion process.


I think those are some of the cutting agents, but it's mostly made from chemicals like brake cleaner, camping fuel, and antifreeze.

The midwest uses alot more anhydrous ammonia since we have more farmlands to steal it from , and the coasts use something else I cant remember right now.

The anhydrous is white and fluffy and the other looks like clear crystals.


Yes and no. There are several methods of making meth, and the appearance and purity of the crystals produced are more a function of the skill of the cook than the chemicals used.

The method that was used here is the Red-White-Blue that uses phosphorus, ephedrine and iodine. Because the cops have cracked down on the sale of iodine and ephedrine most tweekers now get their stuff from Mexico.

Better product for a lower price, and simple possession of meth doesn't carry the same legal penalties as cooking it yourself does.


So which part was the "No".
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:36:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hemi-Cuda:
Crackheads are stupid and have no dignity, Meth heads are psychopaths, permanent too.

Meth > all other drugs.

Yep.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:44:03 AM EST
Well one is made from natural sources and the other is a mixure of man made chemicals.

You tell me which one is going to the the worst.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:46:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By PantherArms762:

Originally Posted By GarandM1:

Originally Posted By PantherArms762:

Originally Posted By GarandM1:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Meth.

Its made from shit like MEK and chemical fertilizer.


Actually, it's made from ephedrine or pseudoephedrine.

The other chemicals are just part of the conversion process.


I think those are some of the cutting agents, but it's mostly made from chemicals like brake cleaner, camping fuel, and antifreeze.

The midwest uses alot more anhydrous ammonia since we have more farmlands to steal it from , and the coasts use something else I cant remember right now.

The anhydrous is white and fluffy and the other looks like clear crystals.


Yes and no. There are several methods of making meth, and the appearance and purity of the crystals produced are more a function of the skill of the cook than the chemicals used.

The method that was used here is the Red-White-Blue that uses phosphorus, ephedrine and iodine. Because the cops have cracked down on the sale of iodine and ephedrine most tweekers now get their stuff from Mexico.

Better product for a lower price, and simple possession of meth doesn't carry the same legal penalties as cooking it yourself does.


So which part was the "No".


Meth is generally made by chemically modifying an existing drug -- in this case, ephedrine/pseduoephedrine. In the old days, the biker gangs used to make it from scratch using certain chemicals.

The reaction was kind of like welding two pieces of metal together. Not very efficient, and took a couple of days.

The ephedrine reduction method clips a certain part of the ephedrine/pseudoephedrine off and under the right conditions Presto! you have meth after just a few hours.

The brake cleaner, coleman fuel and other stuff is used to purify and separate the product. The lithium/sodium or iodine runs the reaction, while the ammonia or phosphorus keeps the conditions right so you don't cut up the whole molecule.

You could easily find this by googling meth; some tweekers are really proud of their recipies and post them online (in some cases, along with their personal information). But I wouldn't recommend doing that, especially if you're at a work computer.

<----- DEA-certified clandestine drug lab investigator.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:50:55 AM EST
crackheads look like shit, but meth heads look like zombies
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:52:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By fourteenpointfive:
crackheads look like shit, but meth heads look like zombies



And smell like shit....
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:53:55 AM EST
Crack is worse. At least meth heads unintentionally clean the gene pool from time to time by blowing themselves up.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:55:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By GarandM1:

Originally Posted By PantherArms762:

Originally Posted By GarandM1:

Originally Posted By PantherArms762:

Originally Posted By GarandM1:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Meth.

Its made from shit like MEK and chemical fertilizer.


Actually, it's made from ephedrine or pseudoephedrine.

The other chemicals are just part of the conversion process.


I think those are some of the cutting agents, but it's mostly made from chemicals like brake cleaner, camping fuel, and antifreeze.

The midwest uses alot more anhydrous ammonia since we have more farmlands to steal it from , and the coasts use something else I cant remember right now.

The anhydrous is white and fluffy and the other looks like clear crystals.


Yes and no. There are several methods of making meth, and the appearance and purity of the crystals produced are more a function of the skill of the cook than the chemicals used.

The method that was used here is the Red-White-Blue that uses phosphorus, ephedrine and iodine. Because the cops have cracked down on the sale of iodine and ephedrine most tweekers now get their stuff from Mexico.

Better product for a lower price, and simple possession of meth doesn't carry the same legal penalties as cooking it yourself does.


So which part was the "No".


Meth is generally made by chemically modifying an existing drug -- in this case, ephedrine/pseduoephedrine. In the old days, the biker gangs used to make it from scratch using certain chemicals.

The reaction was kind of like welding two pieces of metal together. Not very efficient, and took a couple of days.

The ephedrine reduction method clips a certain part of the ephedrine/pseudoephedrine off and under the right conditions Presto! you have meth after just a few hours.

The brake cleaner, coleman fuel and other stuff is used to purify and separate the product. The lithium/sodium or iodine runs the reaction, while the ammonia or phosphorus keeps the conditions right so you don't cut up the whole molecule.

You could easily find this by googling meth; some tweekers are really proud of their recipies and post them online (in some cases, along with their personal information). But I wouldn't recommend doing that, especially if you're at a work computer.

<----- DEA-certified clandestine drug lab investigator.



It boggles my mind when I think of who sat around and thought up the ways to mix all these things together, and then decided to give it a test drive.


Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:57:27 AM EST
What no one is going to say if it was legal, we wouldn't have the problems?
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:00:23 AM EST
One time use and most people are NOT hooked unless you are a conehead type.

Dennis Jenkins


Originally Posted By fivepointoh:
Meth by far.

One time you're hooked.

Dangerous to cook.

Ppl tweeked out on Meth are way worse than coke heads.

The list goes on.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:00:54 AM EST
I like to dip my crack sandwiches in a little cup of meth
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:03:31 AM EST
WGAF natural selection is a bitch even with man made substances.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:05:16 AM EST
meth by a long shot
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:16:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Zack3g:

snipped for brevity's sake

It boggles my mind when I think of who sat around and thought up the ways to mix all these things together, and then decided to give it a test drive.



Meth's been around for over 100 years. It wasn't until the FedGov banned milder stimulants such as benzedrine and dexidrine (bennies, cross tops) that meth became more common. The Hells Angel's found out there was a profit to be made, and they started producing it from scratch. Old-school meth made that way is called "biker meth" or "bathtub meth".

As usual, some enterprising chemist somewhere figured out he could do it more cheaply and easily using ephedrine; that set off the wave of "do it yourself" labs.

Now that it's harder to get ephedrine and other precursors, people have found it's easier and cheaper to buy it from Paco who just arrived from Sinaloa carrying a batch with him as part of the Coyote's fee.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:23:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
They're both bad.

That said, when I was young and stupid (in high school) I used meth for a year or so. It sucked ass, but I stopped on my own, and never committed any crimes to get it. I have seen people that completely destroyed themselves with it, and it was so easy to give up for me I just can't understand why they can't do it themselves...




I thought there were some pretty significant psychological and physical withdrawal symptoms associated with meth?
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:25:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 10:29:44 AM EST by v-dawg]

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:


Remember several years ago when some people blamed the Federal Government for inventing crack? Nobody has charged the Feds with inventing meth.


Actually, didn't they use it for WWII pilots to keep them awake? I thought that was how it became famous?

Edit: it was the Germans who used it. I thought it was the U.S. "search Pervitin"
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:25:32 AM EST
shows how much you guys know about drugs.

Not that that is a bad thing. But its kind of crazy to think that the nations laws are made by people who have little knowledge of the things they are making laws about.



Anyway, they are both terrible drugs. But crack is BY FAR worse, in terms of how long it takes to become physically addictive for a person, and in terms of what people will do to get it.


To tell you the truth, they are both pretty fucking bad. But I would say crack is much worse.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:27:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
They're both bad.

That said, when I was young and stupid (in high school) I used meth for a year or so. It sucked ass, but I stopped on my own, and never committed any crimes to get it. I have seen people that completely destroyed themselves with it, and it was so easy to give up for me I just can't understand why they can't do it themselves...




I thought there were some pretty significant psychological and physical withdrawal symptoms associated with meth?



Not as bad as crack.


Any amount of crack use causes horrible withdrawal symptoms. Meth only gets as bad in large amounts.

Also, pilots, soldiers, etc. have used methamphetamines in the past. in fact there are some legitimate uses for them in the right circumstances.

Any amount of crack consumption is bad, and fucks a person up. You couldn't fly a plane very safely on ANY amount of crack.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:28:04 AM EST
I DO NOT use drugs. I just know things.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:28:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
They're both bad.

That said, when I was young and stupid (in high school) I used meth for a year or so. It sucked ass, but I stopped on my own, and never committed any crimes to get it. I have seen people that completely destroyed themselves with it, and it was so easy to give up for me I just can't understand why they can't do it themselves...




I thought there were some pretty significant psychological and physical withdrawal symptoms associated with meth?


It is pretty addictive, but like alcohol and tobacco some people are able to leave it without much problem, while others require professional help.

I've noticed that people who get addicted to meth have a pretty screwed-up life to begin with.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:29:39 AM EST
a guy i went to high school with tried both... he died from a heart attack at 19 kids
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:30:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 10:33:21 AM EST by cowboy7242001]
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:32:03 AM EST
You all know that crack is just a form of Cocaine right?
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:47:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 10:49:22 AM EST by uxb]

Originally Posted By v-dawg:
You all know that crack is just a form of Cocaine right?


Yes, and your point is?
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:49:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 10:50:40 AM EST by Shane333]

Originally Posted By GarandM1:

Meth is generally made by chemically modifying an existing drug -- in this case, ephedrine/pseduoephedrine. In the old days, the biker gangs used to make it from scratch using certain chemicals.

The reaction was kind of like welding two pieces of metal together. Not very efficient, and took a couple of days.

The ephedrine reduction method clips a certain part of the ephedrine/pseudoephedrine off and under the right conditions Presto! you have meth after just a few hours.

The brake cleaner, coleman fuel and other stuff is used to purify and separate the product. The lithium/sodium or iodine runs the reaction, while the ammonia or phosphorus keeps the conditions right so you don't cut up the whole molecule.

You could easily find this by googling meth; some tweekers are really proud of their recipies and post them online (in some cases, along with their personal information). But I wouldn't recommend doing that, especially if you're at a work computer.

<----- DEA-certified clandestine drug lab investigator.


Whew. For a moment there I was going to recommend a visit with ecclesiastical leaders.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:49:56 AM EST
Too bad we can make a recipie containing birth control...

Meth is the bad - have brother who's been on it for 5+ years. Our house is lock down 24-7, alarm, armed, etc.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:50:33 AM EST
Meth steals the soul.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:53:02 AM EST
I don't know which is worse. I just know that it's stupid to get involved with either of them.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:53:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By v-dawg:

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:


Remember several years ago when some people blamed the Federal Government for inventing crack? Nobody has charged the Feds with inventing meth.


Actually, didn't they use it for WWII pilots to keep them awake? I thought that was how it became famous?

Edit: it was the Germans who used it. I thought it was the U.S. "search Pervitin"


Search a little more and you will find out that we not only used it for pilots in WWII, we still use it today.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:09:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
They're both bad.

That said, when I was young and stupid (in high school) I used meth for a year or so. It sucked ass, but I stopped on my own, and never committed any crimes to get it. I have seen people that completely destroyed themselves with it, and it was so easy to give up for me I just can't understand why they can't do it themselves...




I thought there were some pretty significant psychological and physical withdrawal symptoms associated with meth?


It really didn't bother me-I was felt crappy for a couple days and then on with my life.

I used it when I had things to do-finals, projects, that kind of thing. In the short term (before you've been up for more than 18 hours) you have incredible focus. Trying to do anything beyond that and you just end up trying to build a robot from the toaster...

It's bad shit for sure, but it didn't drive me to crime (other than using drugs) and it didn't turn me into a violent, paranoid nutjob. It wasn't even that hard to stop using. Granted when I quit drugs (when I turned 17), I pretty much stopped hanging out with all of my drug friends-getting away from the people was harder than getting away from the drugs.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:12:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By v-dawg:
You all know that crack is just a form of Cocaine right?


I know, but i don't know how or what or why?

can you ecplain the diff?

txl
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:35:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 11:39:26 AM EST by legalese77]

Originally Posted By TxLewis:

Originally Posted By v-dawg:
You all know that crack is just a form of Cocaine right?


I know, but i don't know how or what or why?

can you ecplain the diff?

txl


Not a perfect explanation and a quick google search could probably enlighten you better than I can.

Having spoken with a good number of crackheads my understanding is as follows. Many crack addicts will reduce the powdered cocaine (A hydrochloride, or HCl) to it's base NaCl (Salt) form which is crystalline (crack).

This is usually done by mixing powder cocaine which has impurities (often from being "stepped" on) with water and baking soda. Heating this mixture cause the cut (impurities) in the powder cocaine to separate from the base.

The result of "cooking" the powder down to crack is that the resultant drug is relatively free of impurities, thereby increasing potency. Additionally, crack is more readily smoked than cocaine.

Inhaling a drug into the lungs is the fastest way, short of direct injection, to get into into the bloodstream. The result s a more intense high and associated euphoria that also tends to be shorter lived.

I've oversimplified a little but that is the general idea. There is lots of good information on the internet that is more specific about this process and how it works.

excerpt from wiki article on "cocaine":

Crack cocaine
Main article: Crack cocaine
Due to the dangers of using ether to produce pure freebase cocaine, cocaine producers began to omit the step of removing the freebase cocaine precipitate from the ammonia mixture. Typically, filtration processes are also omitted. The end result of this process is that the cut, in addition to the ammonium salt (NH4Cl), remains in the freebase cocaine after the mixture is evaporated. The “rock” that is thus formed also contains a small amount of water. Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) is also preferred in preparing the freebase, for when commonly "cooked" the ratio is 50/50 to 40/60% cocaine/bicarbonate. This acts as a filler which extends the overall profitability of illicit sales. Crack cocaine may be reprocessed in small quantities with water (users refer to the resultant product as "cookback"). This removes the residual bicarbonate, and any adulterants or cuts that have been used in the previous handling of the cocaine and leaves a relatively pure, anhydrous cocaine base.

When the rock is heated, this water boils, making a crackling sound (hence the onomatopoetic “crack”). Baking soda is now most often used as a base rather than ammonia for reasons of lowered stench and toxicity; however, any weak base can be used to make crack cocaine. Strong bases, such as sodium hydroxide, tend to hydrolyze some of the cocaine into non-psychoactive ecgonine.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:47:13 AM EST
GET BOTH!


Oh, wait.... what was the question? Oh yeah...



I'm going to vote for meth on this one. My 'worse' criteria being the easy availability of it, the rampant use, the high number of 'home meth labs,' the high addiction rate, and the frighteningly low percentage of users who are actually able to kick it once they start.

In 11+ years of EMS I've seen meth kill and harm more people than crack. Crack is still bad, bad stuff, but it's fallen out of favor with more and more druggies.... I would imagine it's because it's just not as lucrative as meth anymore. It's more expensive to smuggle the cocaine/crack and distribute it, than it is to cook up your own meth at home and sell it to the local high school kiddos and suburban moms.

The best thing to do is AVOID BOTH. I just pray my kiddos do.....
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 12:01:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 12:05:05 PM EST by AR15fan]
Cocaine has a risk of sudden coronary incidents that is not shared by other stimulants.

Those basketball players that drop dead from heart failure on the court. Thats coke, not meth.

I've never responded to a fatal overdoes of meth. Ive responded to many fatal reactions and overdoses of coke.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 1:26:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By uxb:

Originally Posted By v-dawg:
You all know that crack is just a form of Cocaine right?


Yes, and your point is?


My point is that if Lindsay Lohan uses it, it must be okay.........
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 1:28:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By fivepointoh:
Meth by far.

One time you're hooked.

Dangerous to cook.

Ppl tweeked out on Meth are way worse than coke heads.

The list goes on.


that pretty well sums it up.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 3:12:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
They're both bad.

That said, when I was young and stupid (in high school) I used meth for a year or so. It sucked ass, but I stopped on my own, and never committed any crimes to get it. I have seen people that completely destroyed themselves with it, and it was so easy to give up for me I just can't understand why they can't do it themselves...




I thought there were some pretty significant psychological and physical withdrawal symptoms associated with meth?


Can be.

I knew an Emporia state Cheerleader that had "Methamphetamine psychosis" which is where your blood pressure when using the drug causes the teeny tiny blood vessels in the outskirts of your brain to burst, and therefore no longer receive oxygen.

Essentially 1000's of small aneurysms.

They said it could be permanent.

She was smoking hot, her parents were extremely rich, and said she just wanted to do it during the summer, but she never could quit.

She saw things on the walls and floors, talked to God in the shower, she was twacked.

BTW: Before I got sober, I tried meth when I was tested my blood pressure was 240 over 140 or some shit.

I almost had to go to the ER.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 3:28:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
Well one is made from natural sources and the other is a mixure of man made chemicals.

You tell me which one is going to the the worst.


Both of them are ultimately derived from chemicals that come from plants. "Man made" chemicals are used to separate the basic chemicals from the the plant be it coca leaves or various species of ephedra plants. The Chinese have been using ephedra plants for thousands of years and American Indians did to.

The argument that natural things are better than man made things is ridiculous.

Some of the most potent toxins are found or produced by plants, animals and microbes.


Link Posted: 10/11/2007 3:29:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Meth.

Its made from shit like MEK and chemical fertilizer.


You realize that many of the pharmaceuticals you buy from the big drug companies are made from the same chemicals, right?

RF
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 3:32:58 PM EST
Meth. Crack is coke and a few other igredients. Compared to meth it is Fun-Dip.

People steal anhydrous ammonia with a bicycle innertube only to burn their faces off, die of affixiation and go blind. Would you do that for no reason? Smoking and injecting drano, anhydrous, battery acid, etc. sounds great to me!
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 3:33:33 PM EST
Well, since the military gives methamphetamine to our soldiers on occassion, and they turn out OK, I'm gonna say crack is worse.

RF
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:05:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By refurb:
Well, since the military gives methamphetamine to our soldiers on occassion, and they turn out OK, I'm gonna say crack is worse.

RF


To be fair about it, the .mil uses pharmaceutical grade amphetamines at very low doses under strict regulations and under control of a doctor. If it increases their chances of coming home alive and bringing their high dollar hardware home with them, I don't have the slightest problem with it.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:05:44 PM EST
Crackheads make me laugh. Tweakers scare me.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 3:39:13 AM EST
With all the shit used to make meth it's a time bomb. Not long until you are tweaked out trying to make more and you blow yourself up.

We don't get to much meth it's all crack around here
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 3:46:06 AM EST
Both are highly addictive but I can tell you that there is no worse monkey to have on your back than Meth. Trust me on this one.
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